Mini 1190: Game over

[Twistedspoon]

Votecount1.10

Did you know: An average person laughs about 15 times a day

Toro (2) - Empking, Torquez

Sleepykrew(1) - Hoppster, Toro
Empking(1) - Jakesh97
Torquez(2) - Empking, Toro
Jakesh(3) - PBuG, sundy, Sleepykrew
xvart(1) - Panzerjager
Hoppster(1) - Xvart

Not Voting (2) - Vollkan, Captain Corporal,


With 13 Alive it takes 7 to lynch, 6 to no lynch.
The deadline is 6th July GMT 08:00[/b]

[/size]

Vollkan has replaced 1Joe60. Give him a warm welcome

[SleepyKrew]

Fail.
Vote: Torquez
Welcome

[PJ.]

@Sleepy I don't think so

Welcome Torquez

[Twistedspoon]

Vollkan has replaced 1Joe60 and Torquez has replaced Elfen. Give him a warm welcome. They are lifesavers to me
No more replacements please :p

[SleepyKrew]

volkan >.>
Vote: volkan

[vollkan]

First off, to get my standard "How I Play" PSA out of the way: I rank my suspects from 0 (absolutely town) - 100 (absolutely scum). Everybody starts at 50. Because I don't believe in towntells and am skeptical about most scumtells, it is common for people to stay at 50. 50 does not mean "no opinion" - it means "I don't see scumtells" from this person. Absent claims, need for deadline compromises, etc. I will always vote the person with the highest score.

52:

Toro+5

The discussion about Empking is just pure conspiracy argument and planting doubt where there is no cause for it to exist - coupled with the passive "Don't take this as me wanting to get rid of Empking right off the bat but it's certainly something to think about."
59: Defence here makes me comfortable with the above points. "I'm merely throwing the thought out there, it's not a weak thought at all." There are an infinite number of possible thoughts that you can raise in this game. Raising something inherently means that you think (or want other people to think) that it has some special legitimacy. This is why "I'm just speculating" is NEVER an explanation for raising something - because by raising it you are implying that you have some good reason for thinking that it stands out above background noise possibilities.
63: I'm giving another

Toro+5

here for a piss-weak defence. First, he says "It's not like I'm the only person here who considers this a possibility" as if the fact that other people are thinking that way excuses him. Secondly, there is a (weak) contradiction in that he now says "Would a vote legitimize my

case

for you?" [italics mine]. If he had a "case", why,in 52 and 59, does he present it like merely curious speculation?
66: Why is it that "As of now I'm going to re-read back through the thread and look at all of the different conflicts going on." read like "Shit, need to find something else to talk about"?
70: And now it's a "strong possibility". We go from "just throwing it out there" -> "case" -> "strong possibility"
72: "No one else doubted the authenticity of your Miller claim". Which is weird...because just a few posts ago he says "It's not like I'm the only person here who considers this a possibility"

Toro+5

83: /agree
90: Big post by Toro. Case on CC here makes no sense - in #23 (the post Toro references), CC actually explained why there was no contradiction (rather than, as Toro claims, the post containing a contradiction). Empking case is trash, as explained.
96: Case on Thomith is a beatup (no more points for now, since it pales in comparison to the Empking stuff, and I am conscious of the risk of my system unfairly operating on a very active player like Toro)
122: Elfen gets

Elfen+5

for the same thing as Toro - planting doubt about Empking based on the claim, and claiming Empking is OMGUSing (withoutn using the acronym)

tbc...(end of page 6)

[Captain Corporal]

Welcome, replacees.
Vollkan's first post looks good to me.
A side question, why would someone vig themselves? There seems to be no point to it...
Re reading... again.

[SleepyKrew]

Vigging yourself is stupid in most situations. Including this one.

[vollkan]

All of page 7 is null (and a pretty silly argument). On the godfather-Toro point specifically, I can see where EK is coming from, though I'm not confident in the strength of the tell enough to make me comfortable giving Toro yet more points for it.

220: @Toro: What on earth do you mean by you felt Thomith was a "bigger threat"? Threat to what? Tormith was kind of inactive. Empking was (in your view...or, at least, in one of your many, ever-changing views) actually scummy.
244: [b\Sundy+5[/b] for saying Jakesh had the "worst vote ever", despite previously voting Panzer for very weak reasons
246:

Thomith+5

Very bad BW vote. He doesn't explain at all why he thinks Toro is scummy - just says he's decided (no explanation given as to why) that Toro's reasoning is "weird). Also...248
248: When asked whether "weird = scummy" he responds by saying " i voted because i dont think a miller lynch is really ever good day one and toro is pushing it badly". Of course, that's completely unrelated to the question of whether weird=scummy
254: This reinforces the above. He now claims the reason for going after Panzer over Jakesh is that Jakesh had already been punished enough and that Panzer was flying under the radar - of course, you wouldn't have gotten that impression for his actual post in which he voted Panzer
299:

Panzer+5

for asking for Toro to be hammered based on his Vig-claim. Vig-claim is easily testable.
315: And

Elfen+5

for voting a claimed vig when slightly pressured to do so.
329: ...those this makes me think Elfen may just be a VI
330: Agreed with PBug here

@Toro:

Use your vig power on somebody whom you think is most likely scum.
378: I'm opposed to a Toro self-kill. Mafia OSV is an inherently unlikely role. If he is SK, he is crippling himself by claiming OS.
388: @Xvart: can you summarise your case against Hoppster?

Score table incoming.

[Empking]

Mod:

Vig yourself tonight.

Unvote

Vote Elfen

[vollkan]

Player	Score
SleepyKrew	50
CaptainCorporal	50
Sundy	55
Hoppster	50
Thomith	55
Panzerjager	55
Toro	65
Torquez	60
Xvart	50
Jakesh97	50
PBUG	50
Empking	50

In light of Toro's claim, I

Vote: Torquez

[vollkan]

Mod:

Vig yourself tonight.

Unvote

Vote Elfen

Torquez(2) - Empking, Toro

Torquez has replaced Elfen

[Captain Corporal]

I like your scumhunting method, Vollkan.

[Empking]

Toro (2) (L-1)- Empking, Torquez

[Twistedspoon]

sorted, thanks Empking

[vollkan]

I like your scumhunting method, Vollkan.

Thanks A

lot

of people complain about it, so it's always nice to know that some people actually like it.

[SleepyKrew]

I'll probably start using a modified version of that.

[PJ.]

I like your scumhunting method, Vollkan.

Thanks A

lot

of people complain about it, so it's always nice to know that some people actually like it.

*This Guy*

Really dislike it.

[Torqez]

I'll keep the vote count on the Vig shoot vote, unless TS wants to super awesome mod and keep two counts.

sorry, bro; I can only do votecounts

anyway, I wouldn't want to confirm a role Toro may or may not have to you.

Good news: Torquez replaces Elfen. Give him a warm welcome

Sorry guys ...really hate to do this to you, but as I wrote to Twisted in pm:

Sorry Twisted! I made a mistake!! I already replaced into someones game, and forgot to message you to withdraw. Thought you might have wanted a 2nd confirmation or something.

Can I replace out please? Just returning back to Mafia and I'd like to only be in one game for now.

Sorry for the trouble!!!

Really sorry for the inconvenience! Hope you find a replacement! Gl guys!

Twistedspoon edit: This had better be the last replacement. sigh. What's a mod gotta do eh?

[xvart]

What don't you understand about 'you haven't been reading my posts'?

For town, that's a pretty clear signal that you need to read my posts and stop being such an idiot.

Just saying I'm an idiot because I'm not reading your posts is not helpful; and when you don't try and explain how I am misinformed or explain your behavior and instead just post your ISO is scummy. On the other hand, you labeling all your posts with their scummy behavior is helpful.

Finally, what do you mean by "for town." That sounds pretty definitively that you know I am town.

While going through your posts I noticed this:

Are you saying that there is no chance that Thomith is town? Pray, tell us how you know this.

This is pretty interesting in the fact that you are using the scum knowledge tell (scum know who is not scum) only you are using it backwards. You are asking how Toro knows that Thomith is scum; so unless you think Toro is bussing Thomith this isn't even a tell. It's backwards; and if you think he is bussing you should have been voting either of them; but at the time of this post you are voting SleepyKrew while only FoSing Toro. This is exactly what I was talking about with you dancing around Toro. Your voting record doesn't fit with what you are saying above; or, you are throwing around false suspicion in an attempt to appear to be scumhnting but you are not double checking your work (which I believe to be the case).

Whoa,

unvote,Vote:xvart

didn't even notice all that

Everything in Hoppster's post

Notice what? What did he say and what is scummy?

388: @Xvart: can you summarise your case against Hoppster?

Basically, throughout the entire day he has been softly supporting the main wagon (Toro) while softly defending it. Here he gives a big fat FoS (with enlarged font to make sure we all see it) and even indirectly (accidentally?) identifies Toro and Thomith as scum while keeping his vote on SleepyKrew (detailed above). Then he backs off of Toro saying he is arrogant townie. Then says Empking is making him doubt his read. Then he built a massive wall "case" with basic mafia 101 and providing obvious information like "whoever we vote always has a chance of being uninformed majority OR informed minority" (no kidding; what other options are there?) and when speaking about Empking claiming miller he says "well, if he's not a Miller, that means he's not being truthful. But we know that townies are truthful. Therefore he is not a townie. Therefore he is scum" (also no kidding) and demands a claim (also, again, in big letters).

So either Hoppster and Toro are scum together or Hoppster is scum and knows Toro is town and if so he didn't want to be on the Toro lynch until it looked too good to be true and could get on it and not take heat. But since he had been back and forth all day about it he had to build a case to look like he legitimately believes Toro is scum.

Either way, Hoppster is scum. And if he flips scum then panzer has a very high likelihood of being scum with him.

[SleepyKrew]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Hopitty
Get it? I vote-hopped
Toto can kill jakesh.

[vollkan]

Basically, throughout the entire day he has been softly supporting the main wagon (Toro) while softly defending it. Here he gives a big fat FoS (with enlarged font to make sure we all see it) and even indirectly (accidentally?) identifies Toro and Thomith as scum while keeping his vote on SleepyKrew (detailed above). Then he backs off of Toro saying he is arrogant townie. Then says Empking is making him doubt his read. Then he built a massive wall "case" with basic mafia 101 and providing obvious information like "whoever we vote always has a chance of being uninformed majority OR informed minority" (no kidding; what other options are there?) and when speaking about Empking claiming miller he says "well, if he's not a Miller, that means he's not being truthful. But we know that townies are truthful. Therefore he is not a townie. Therefore he is scum" (also no kidding) and demands a claim (also, again, in big letters).

So either Hoppster and Toro are scum together or Hoppster is scum and knows Toro is town and if so he didn't want to be on the Toro lynch until it looked too good to be true and could get on it and not take heat. But since he had been back and forth all day about it he had to build a case to look like he legitimately believes Toro is scum.

Either way, Hoppster is scum. And if he flips scum then panzer has a very high likelihood of being scum with him.

Thanks for the summary.

These points, and the earlier point about "Are you saying that there is no chance that Thomith is town? Pray, tell us how you know this" warrant a

Hoppster+7

, contigent (upwards or downwards) on how he explains his apparent shifting of position on Toro.

[PJ.]

Given the re-explanation I'm not so sure. Just Hopps response seem really good, and I figured you were scum pushing his lynch

Unvote

for now.

I don't get how you are pairing me and hoppster but that's fine.

[SleepyKrew]

Panzer, scumspects, go. Why aren't you voting Hop? Why aren't you voting at all?

[PJ.]

Scumspects is a stupid word

Suspects:
Empking: I don't like the miller claim or the reason. I still think he is lying.
One of Xvart or Hoppster: The way they've interacted, I'd be willing to say one of them are certainly scum, not tame enough for distancing. Right now I leaning toward Hoppster being scummier because he has been kinda flimsy, and Xvart has been much more assertative like he has nothing to hide.
Jakesh: I've talked about this fairly recently.
Captain Corporal: I really hate that while being a very frequent poster in the beginning he didn't take a stand on the Miller claim issue. And not only did he not take a stand he kinda congratulated him on being clever like he knew Emp was lying. I don't like how the game started to heat up and his posting died off entirely. He hasn't added any content in 6 pages. And really hasn't been scumhunting at all.
Vollkan: I hate his scumhunting style and I feel it's competely arbitrary but that probably doesn't make him scum in every game, so ignore this.

As far as not voting, I wasn't sure which side of the Xvart/Hoppster arguement I wanted to take and I wasn't sure where my thoughts were, but i've seemed to have collected them now with this post. so

Vote:Captain Corporal