Newbie #1118 (Game Over!)

[hiplop]

you have one piece of evidence, that being the question, its a filler question: something scum tennd to use often. I think there are more bad ones by him, but im not too sure, ill take a look back

[hiplop]

whAT PRESSURE ON ME? nobody is voting me/nor is anyone really suspcious of me

[YankCane151]

How is #165 not Silavor contributing? Keep in mind he was sick, and couldn't be on for alot of the middle pages. You yourself were v/la early game, so it makes sense. Sancho IS challenging you, by the way. Scum tend to avoid ALL Pressure, not just if they're getting attacked. Heck, you mentioned no one's voting for you. And? You don't need votes on you to get pressure. Sounds to me like a kinda "Look, no one is voting for me therefore I must be town" kinda thing you have going on. It's definitely an interesting question especially given Trevor's latest posts, and even if it turns out it's not useful content, it's definitely worth an answer from Trevor. Your case against Silavor is for the most part nonexistant now that he posted something useful, and your case against Sans is hardly a case considering you are going back and forth on how you aren't a newb. Really, you jumped onto Silavor(there wasn't much pressing him other than me wanting more info and you voting him past page 4, which was before I Came in) after the lolly wagon kinda died out. Come on man, at least show me where Silavor is scummy to you.

[hiplop]

Oh, cool there is one person challengin me then. Still not much pressure that im "avoiding". I know he was V/LA, and its not like im trying to get him lynched, i just have my vote on him, i suppose i could go for lollybear, its just I dont have many reads at this point, which sort of sucks tbh. Lollybear is lurking too much, and i guess he deserves pressure.

[YankCane151]

That wasn't my point on pressure. If you're not trying to get him lynched, then get your vote off. You can't just fling them around as you please. Again, you still haven't said why you're still voting Silavor. He POSTED for pete's sake. The reason you're voting him is invalid. Make some reads. Ask some questions. That first sentence you said strikes me really wrong, might I add.

[YankCane151]

I mean, you're complaining about having no reads(such a common theme in here, easy for a scum to hop onto that category), and yet your only scumhunting consists of a verbal spar with sanch and a weird vote on Silavor. And saying the same thing most of us have said about Lolly.

[hiplop]

alright UNVOTE:
VOTE: lollybear

i rarely take my vote off of people if the wagon dies, though i still am shifty on Silavor, just doesnt seem IC enough i guess.

Ninja'd- What exactly is

your

case on me? Be specific.

[YankCane151]

I think your voting methods are scummy, as I outlined over the past 4-5 posts. I assumed you read them. Ergo, I think you're scummy(plus lack of scumhunting and dodginess). Again, I already pretty much outlined it over the past 4-5 posts.

[hiplop]

fair enough, i dont really see how any of that has scum motivation, but each to their own.

[YankCane151]

You think wish-washy voting, band-wagon hopping, and overtly defending a very scummy player has no scummy motivation?

[hiplop]

I dont see how ive been wishy washy. I've voted silavor and lollybear, thats it. I didnt defend him at all, i attacked sans.

[YankCane151]

Seemed more like a defense than an attack to me. I was referring to how you haven't made any real cases either way for either of your votes.

[iamausername]

-=Vote Count #7=-

Trevor (2) - silavor, YankCane151
lollybear (2) - Ankamius, hiplop
Ankamius (1) - Scumhunter
YankCane151 (1) - WiganMike89

Not Voting (3) - lollybear, Trevor, sanchocolates

5 to lynch.

Deadline falls in (expired on 2011-07-05 14:00:00)

[Trevor]

Firstly Ankamius: My vote on you was a random vote when I first joined this game. Did I want you lynched? not really, I wanted to see your reaction. You defended yourself quite well.
Here are some questions I want to answer

@Mike: What are you reads on everybody so far? You really haven't shared an opinion on your reads as of yet (but if you have, please point it out).
@Hiplop: What's the reason you voted silavor?
@Trevor: Why are you so sure that we will have 2 myslynches?


I'm getting town read from Yank while I'm getting newb tells from Trevor, hiplop and Lolly. Leaning scum tells are Silavor, Mike and Ankamius. Scumhunter's null.

Lynching a player who isn't scumhunting is not that bad (I think) but lynching a player that is trying to scumhunt IS a bad thing because that person probably would've been a nightkill target so instead of them having to kill them at night, the town helped the scum lynch an important player. When focusing on a player, try to see if they're scumhunting, and not just making a mistake of words. Tunneling somebody doesn't help as well, it makes you seem like you're trying too hard to lynch a player which gives off scummy reactions.

There are two mafia (no less, no more) and seven villagers. We incorrectly lynch one and another one dies at night, it's 5-2 village. We can incorrectly lynch another villager and still not lose.


How come you aren't contributing to town?
By contribution you mean scumhunting. I am looking for the scum, too. If I get lynched today, will everyone who fingered me have contributed to the town? nope.


Why is hiplop buddying with you?
I don't see any buddying going on. Especially today, there is a difference between "buddying" and "not fosing him".

Now I will respond to both of the people voting me.

Scum reads on Lollybear and Trevor. Lollybear seems excessively timid and shy with her reads, even for a newbie. For example, here:

My biggetst scum read is Ankamius but that doesn't mean he's scum. we still have a long way to go before the deadline so its hard to tell.

Notice how she leaves herself an easy way to back out of her read. "My biggetst scum read is Ankamius but that doesn't mean he's scum" implies that, if an Ankamius wagon doesn't take off, she can basically pretend this scum read never happened and move on to the next bandwagon of the day.

I had a town read on Devastation, but then Trevor replaces in and votes Ankamius for tunneling, despite Arcee tunneling a lot harder just a page earlier. I also get really bad vibes off of this post:

See, this is the problem Ankamius. Since this is Day 1, no one will have any real evidence against anyone else. Reactions can be deceiving as most newer players have worse reactions, regardless of alignment. You like to question everybody's suspicions to you being scum. I have no evidence other than you tunneling on Lollybear, who could be scum. You obviously do not want to be lynched and your defense is very strong.

unvote:

for now. You are trying to towntell as hard as possible, and you've convinced me for the time being.

Not only does he sloppily back out of his read, but he also compliments Ankamius, using what's called Appeal to Emotion (AtE) to try and subtly get on to Ankamius' good side.
Also of note is that he quietly throws in that Lollybear could be scum, as if to say that if a Lollybear wagon started up, he would be willing to jump on.

Vote:Trevor

Pretty much you accuse me of quickvoting, quickly changing my mind, and bwing. The vote on Ankamius was similar to RVS since I had just joined. I had a very minor scumread on Ankamius and voted for him.

Yankeefan: You are defending certain people and lashing out on others. Some of your reasons don't make that much sense. Fos on you.

[YankCane151]

Firstly Ankamius: My vote on you was a random vote

It's a random vote with a reason, what? Which of my reasons don't make sense? Only the ones against you? Please, 'enlighten' me. I'm more sure of my vote now.

[silavor]

i rarely take my vote off of people if the wagon dies

How is this relevant in the slightest? When did I ever have a wagon on me to begin with, let alone one that died?

And how did you manage to completely miss me posting a cast on Lolly and Trevor?

[YankCane151]

Also Trevor, how were you looking for a reaction out of a random vote? And why might I add are you continuing to state that we have so and so many mislynches to use up? We all get it by now, we have a certain number of mislynches, but jeez, it looks like you just want to set yourself up for a 'I told you so' and to justify any mislynches by saying 'It's okay guys, we'll get them next time!' Scum or not(I think you're the former), that's an anti-town stance.

[sanchocolates]

@Hiplop: About the 2 myslynches, it's almost as if Trevor wants to get to MyLo. That is why I questioned him, because these things concern the town and not scum.

you have one piece of evidence, that being the question, its a filler question: something scum tennd to use often. I think there are more bad ones by him, but im not too sure, ill take a look back

You are talking about me, right?

whAT PRESSURE ON ME? nobody is voting me/nor is anyone really suspcious of me

I'm a bit suspicious of you right now, and I think so is Yank.

Firstly Ankamius: My vote on you was a random vote when I first joined this game. Did I want you lynched? not really, I wanted to see your reaction. You defended yourself quite well.

You could've voted for anybody else in the game.
Here are some questions I want to answer. Why him?

There are two mafia (no less, no more) and seven villagers. We incorrectly lynch one and another one dies at night, it's 5-2 village. We can incorrectly lynch another villager and still not lose.

Yes, but we'll be in MyLo. I don't want that happening.

How come you aren't contributing to town?
By contribution you mean scumhunting. I am looking for the scum, too. If I get lynched today, will everyone who fingered me have contributed to the town? nope.

I don't see how you are scumhunting, sorry. You're just mumbling on about if it's okay to have 2 myslynches.

[sanchocolates]

EBWOP: You could've voted for anybody else in the game.

Here are some questions I want to answer.

Why him?

[sanchocolates]

There is pressure on you right now, hiplop.

[YankCane151]

Yes, I am suspicious of Hiplop too. 1-10 with 1 being town 10 being scum, I've got Trevor at an 8, hip at a 7, Mike at a 6(Still waiting for him to answer the last thing I said to him.)

Trevor:(Hate to split this up into posts, but I keep thinking of more things to ask after the fact) You said you were defending your case against me in the middle of #188. I saw no defense of yours, just you calling me out without backing it up, for one, in a very OMGUS way. Is that your big defense?

[Ankamius]

See, this is the problem Ankamius.

1. Since this is Day 1, no one will have any real evidence against anyone else.

Reactions can be deceiving as most newer players have worse reactions, regardless of alignment.

2. You like to question everybody's suspicions to you being scum. I have no evidence other than you tunneling on Lollybear, who could be scum.

3. You obviously do not want to be lynched

and your defense is very strong.

unvote:

for now. You are trying to towntell as hard as possible, and you've convinced me for the time being.

1. You are correct, but this is largely irrelevant. As the day goes on, the way people interact with each other and vote can give scum or town tells, which allow us to make an educated guess on who is a mafia member. This is reasoning, not evidence. Evidence in Mafia is from roles, such as a guilty cop investigation or a roleblocker blocking someone and having the next day start without a kill.

2. I don't have as much a problem with the fact that I got bandwagoned as much as the way the bandwagon formed and grew.

3. No one truly wants to be lynched without cause. It is defying your win condition as town to be lynched without a reason.

i rarely take my vote off of people if the wagon dies

What is the reasoning for this?

--

It's been over 2 days since WiganMike, Scumhunter, and Lollybear have posted. What do you three think about the recent developments?

[WiganMike89]

I've been trying to catch up by reading through the thread again, and I think I underestimated how much time needs to go into this game to play it effectively. I've found it a bit like Sisyphus, by the time I've just about caught up there are three more pages!

I'd like to request a replacement, I'm really sorry but I think it's better to let someone else who either has the time or a more efficient way of playing take my place while it's only day 1, rather than finding it harder and harder as the thread gets longer. Sorry guys.

[Ankamius]

I've been trying to catch up by reading through the thread again, and I think I underestimated how much time needs to go into this game to play it effectively. I've found it a bit like Sisyphus, by the time I've just about caught up there are three more pages!

I'd like to request a replacement, I'm really sorry but I think it's better to let someone else who either has the time or a more efficient way of playing take my place while it's only day 1, rather than finding it harder and harder as the thread gets longer. Sorry guys.

My apologies; thanks for trying the game!

[YankCane151]

Good playing with you Mike.