MagnaofIllusion wrote:Yos wrote:If you really want an answer to that question, then, uh, if someone is town and does something really, really scummy like rolefishing, then yes, pointing out that they did something really really scummy is a good way to get them lynched. It's also a good way to scumhunt or to try to figure out their alignment.
So if Meran flips Town you are in agreement that at least 1 scum is likely found in that subset of players?
No. That line of Meran's also bothered me, and I'm not surprised it's bothered other people.
Irrespective of Meran's alignment, I don't have a problem with people questioning him or attacking him about that line. Could scum make that argument if they wanted to push the Meran wagon, if Meran is town? Yeah, they could, but I'd also expect to see pro-town people making that argument as well, so the whole thing is pretty null.
I’ll have to review Victorian Vampire Mafia to see if you were so conservative with your vote Day 1 there.
Eh. I'm generally not. It's just that none of the active people seem especially scummy to me, and there isn't anyone I could really call a lurker 72 hours into the game, so I'm kind of at a loss to where to start. I'll hopefully find a good place to put my vote soon.
Yos wrote:I'm considering sheeping PJ onto Meren; only problem is that, other then the role fishing thing (with I really want an explanation from Meren about), I don't think the rest of Meren's posting is bad.
Hmmm why would you sheep PJ? Is it past history?
Yeah, pretty much. IMHO, PJ is one of the top 5 mafia players of all time, and one of the best scumhunters on the site. And, as you pointed out, I'm not voting anyone right now; I don't really like my vote not doing anything, I like putting it to work.
Yos wrote:I've also got a weird gut feeling about you, mostly because of your attacks on the neighbors. If all 3 neighbors are, in fact, town, then posts like this:
Let’s circle back … aside from your reads (and you have specifically said you have solid scum reads) why are you assuming the 3 neighbors are Town? You are doing the exact same thing (making a relational observation that is dependant on unknown information) that I did with Meran’s wagon above that you state is really weird.
That's really not the same thing. In the case of Meran, I'm at the point of thinking "was he rolefishing? Was that a scum gambit on his part?" and you seem to have completely skipped that step and gone right to "who is trying to mislynch him for rolefishing?" That's the thing that feels odd to me.
With the neighbors, the reason I added that line is is because of course if one of them is scum, then attacking the neighbors like that can't be a scum tell. Nonetheless, if they are town, then scum would LOVE to subtly plant the idea "Hey, one of them has to be scum, so let's keep lynching them until we find the scum!" I mean...chaining 3 mislynches in a row like that would put the town pretty far in the hole, don't you think?
To use your phrasing from before, if the neighbors are town, would you agree with me that at least one of the people pushing the "one of the neighbors is scum, let's lynch neighbors" line of reasoning is probably scum?
If it isn’t ok for me to make said relational observations that may be useful later why is it ok for you to do so?
Relational observations are fine. Like I said, though, I don't think yours about Meran is valid, and beyond that, I don't really understand why you're already thinking in terms of "who are the scum trying to mislynch him" when we don't know his alignment and he's only at 4 votes.
Yos wrote:I'm also a little weirded out by how hard you were riding the DH thing.
So it doesn’t strike you as odd at all that DH made the same mistake Kondi did the first time he drew a Neighbor role PM yet it didn’t even cross his mind to question Kondi about his QT post pre-game or look at Kondi’s history as opposed to just voting him right out of the gate?
No, not really. I don't think most people would have jumped to the conclusion that Kondi misunderstood the neighbor role just based on that one post of his, even if they've made that same mistake before.
Yos wrote:1. Do you really think Sensfan is scum for trying to use pressure to change Hydra's behavior in a way he thought was more pro-town? Or do you not think that's what sensfan was trying to do? I don't really get your attack here.
I think he’s scum for the manner in which he is crafting said attack. He’s pre-concluding on scummy behavior that has yet to officially happen as support for his “I’m not moving my vote” statement.
Furthermore focused solely on driving said “Pro-Town” behavior as opposed to scum-hunting. If Hydra behaves scummy (via showing Cognitive Dissonance, which is the thrust of Sens suspicion) then they are scummy for it regardless of whether posts are signed or not. The post signing element is a pointless procedure that doesn’t add ‘Towniness’ to Hydra, IMO.
Eh. Once you start pressuring someone to change their behavior, it usually involves a vote and a lot of bluster. Lines like "I'm not moving my vote until you do" (insert behavior here) are pretty common, as are threats, demands, picking at minor points, and generally a lot of yelling.
I, personally, don't think that the "signing the name" thing is a big deal, but I think that Sensfan DOES honestly believe that it is, and I don't really see a lot of scum motivation behind the hydra vote.
That being said, I'd like to hear more from Sensfan about who he actually thinks is scummy.
He made such a big impression on me and this is all he posted:
