Mini Normal 1187: Game Over

[Scumhunter]

id say that if he doesnt post it by tomorrow at noon, we lynch him

I'd agree. Pine your flaking out at the end of the day here is reminding me quite a bit of Mini 1156: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17230, where you stall and stalled on posting a case and then flipped scum d1. I understand you were V/LA and life > mafia (for the most part anyways ). Anyhoo, I'm going to be

V/LA from 6/24-6/26

(If anyone cares, I'm road tripping to Milwaukee to watch some baseball with some friends) so...I'd like to decide who I'm voting for this evening. Pine, If you haven't posted something worthwhile by this evening I will be voting you. So yeap, we are getting close to deadline here. I realize its a bit inconvenient that I'm out of town here near deadline, but such is life.

[Barry Allen]

Heliman may want to defend himself against a case that hasn't been fully posted, but there are two things to consider. One is that Bob is V/LA for at least the next two days and won't be able to post that case. The other (more important) point is that we've already waited more than long enough for Pine to stop delaying and actually post a defense.

@ Pine - Whether this is a delaying tactic or not, it is disrespectful of every player who has patiently waited on thread to allow you the opportunity to defend yourself. If you were waiting for the heat to go elsewhere while delaying, that hasn't worked. If you simply don't care enough to defend yourself, that's just as bad. This needs to stop. Post your defense.

@ Scumhunter - since you noted your upcoming road trip, not related to the game.
I used to live near Milwaukee and loved going to Miller Park. Not a bad seat in the house, and one of the few ballparks where you can actually afford to go and see a game. Have a brat for me!

[archaebob]

You guys should not hammer Pine before deadline, just saying.

[Barry Allen]

Bob, while I understand wishing to use our time well, we simply are not doing that at all. The thread has basically died out except for repetitive calls (several of them mine) for Pine to finally post that defense he's been promising for days. If Bob or anyone else wishes to post further reads or cases, then we're using the time wisely and should continue. If we're just going to let the thread die out while playing a waiting game, then we're simply wasting time and opportunity. Soooooo, if Pine won't post then it's time for others to add whatever additional FoS's they have so we can at least use the time productively. That especially includes our newer players - you've had some time to read up, whaddaya think folks?

[ace5993]

You guys should not hammer Pine before deadline, just saying.

We're at a standstill and if Pine doesn't post his defense FAST, we won't have time to build up a different wagon. I think the noon tomorrow deadline for him to post something substantial is fair, there's not much more we can get out of today.

[Heliman]

Better suggestion:

Request Extension.

[Valern]

D: Totally forgot I was in this game. Reading more now.

[ace5993]

Better suggestion:

Request Extension.

This works too.

[archaebob]

Depending on time constraints, I have every intention of posting a Heliman case before deadline.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm still waiting on Pine's defense, by the way. That vote switch was incriminating and until he says something about it, my mind is set.

[Valern]

Spoiler: catchup post from the top of page 10 to the bottom of 11

Top of Barry's 230 sounds like OMGUS minus the accompanying vote. Ace is, at this point in my read, one of my strongest town reads and the fact that he feels the need to throw dirt a little on Ace before responding to him doesn't sit well with me at all. Not sure why I didn't catch this the other day.

Hiplop's 231 completely fails to comment on ace/barry's back and forth. Not scummy on its own, but worth noting if it becomes a pattern.

Nintendo's 239: I could go on my "meta doesn't usually mean much" rant, but suffice to say that Pine posted more as town in a game I played with him recently.

Nintendo's 246: Under pressure from Bob, he unvotes him without putting his vote somewhere else. On page 10. Not because he claims he doesn't think Bob is scummy any more, but because he admits his vote isn't doing anything. W. T. F. Beyond useless. Mega scummy.

Giitah 252: comments on how pressuring Jil may have revealed her alignment without committing to what

he

thinks it is. Scummy!

Heliman's 258 seems misguided but town.

Not really feeling Barry's case on Hiplop [259]. Seems like he's on his case for playstyle more than anything else. More scumminess from Barry, though, as he spends all that space on a Hiplop case and then backs out with a non-commital "is he scum? i dano lol" at the end. Looks like Barry is dipping his pinky finger in the waters trying to determine if the water's the right temperature for a Hiplop soup.

Heliman's 267 looks distinctly of OMGUS.

Bob's 269 catches on to the same tidbit I did. Good man.

Barry's 273 is noted. I haven't really been reading much of the current pages yet, but I'm aware Pine is the lead wagon and that he's been on V/LA. Interested to see if Barry was consistent with his "I don't want to vote someone on V/LA before they post a defense" statement.

Spoiler: from the top of page 12 to the bottom of 14

DH 278, 280, 281 - I can see where DH is coming from on the Jil thing (though I still think she was just an easy wagon) but I can't see why he would fail to comment on or have reads about anything else going on in the game. Scummy.

Barry 292 - he seems to like to comment on people and say things to the effect of finding them voteworthy without actually placing a vote. Why has this guy not gotten more attention?

Scumhunter 295 - Fluff. Self-meta. (might just be a playstyle thing, but does he really need to go on about it so long?) Reads are informative, at least, though he is awfully non-commital regarding quite a few of them. ("Well, I think they're this, but then again they could be that...") Puts both barry and ace as "leaning scum" but votes ace. Possible barry-buddy?

Nintendo 297 - catches Scumhunter's non-commital posting re: Bob. +townpoints.

Barry 299 - Like his question at scumhunter regarding pine, suspicious of his relative lack of useful comments on Scumhunter's reads.

Scumhunter 300/301 - Scumhunter and Barry seem very willing to talk openly with or about each other. Throws out my Scumhunter/Barry team theory a little. Plus, 301 gives me some townvibes.

SH 305 - "As for my reads list. I want to change it a little. I'm going to back off both my Barry scum read and my hiplop town read a bit" -- okay, sure, so he talked with Barry and found him to be slightly townier. I can see that, even if I don't agree with it. But why is hiplop suddenly scummier when he didn't post, unless he's sheeping Barry's logic (who he previously thought was most scummy behind Ace)? SUSPICIOUS.

Barry's response to hiplop [335] cements my feelings that this is scum-on-town.

Ace 339 - Finally, that Pine case I knew was coming. He raises some good points about Pine that I hadn't previously noticed but, while I'm thinking about him, I think the most damning thing is that he claims he's able to read the thread and he's obviously able to post but he doesn't spend the time to even try to give us his reads. Contrary to what some people seem to think, quote walls are absolutely not necessary for giving us reads. Defending oneself, maybe, but why can't he post reads other than continuing to think Bob is scum?

Barry 340 - He comes in to respond to hiplop and COMPLETELY IGNORES ace's case on Pine. Afraid of having to fake a reaction? I think so. And regarding his point 1 - if it's not scummy, WHY DOES HE KEEP BRINGING IT UP AND PADDING HIS CASE WITH IT? and "I don't know if you're scum or not" sounds like he has to remind himself that he's not supposed to know. That's more of a gut-thing, though.

Barry 346 - Suddenly, the typo thing is scummy enough for a vote, despite him saying it was null in 340! AMAZING!

I know I'm not done catching up yet, but I think I am confident enough for a Barry vote right now. He's just. So. Amazingly. SCUMMY.

VOTE: Barry

[Scumhunter]

Vote: Pine

Yes. I realize this is L-1. The previous game I played in with Pine he flaked out like this as scum d1 and never got his magical post up that was set to appear any minute. I'm gone til Sunday night. Best of luck my fellow townies on this lynch or if it ends up changing.

[Scumhunter]

@ Scumhunter - since you noted your upcoming road trip, not related to the game.
I used to live near Milwaukee and loved going to Miller Park. Not a bad seat in the house, and one of the few ballparks where you can actually afford to go and see a game. Have a brat for me!

Never been before this weekend so pretty pumped. I'm a big Twins fan but actually I'm a Brewers season ticket holder precisely because tickets are so cheap and that if the Brewers end up making it to the world series I stand to make quite a profit selling the World Series tickets I'd get. XD.

[Pine]

At this point I'm resigned to being the lynch for Day One. This has all been a travesty of bad timing.

Please give me until deadline to give my reflections. At this time I am not interested in posting any kind of defense; the case against me revolves almost entirely around the first couple of pages and my lack of content while on vacation. Yes, I've dragged my feet and procrastinated in presenting my case. Frankly, this game disgusts and disinterests me.

Rather than defending myself against the hugely reaching cases, I will be presenting evidence against others, the people you should have been investigating.

Now I believe is appropriate for my roleclaim. I am the Town's Roleblocker. You will notice no counterclaim to this role. If one does pop up, then by all means please avenge my death with theirs.

[Barry Allen]

Pine - after all this time, you wait until NOW to role claim? You could have done that while you were actively posting during V/LA and were at L-2. You could have done that any time during the last two days after you returned from V/LA while you were promising a big reply to the wall-o-texts. NOW you want us to wait until deadline just to hear your responses, leaving us no time to debate other targets. No matter whether you are town or scum, this is a terrible way to play. Still, since you are now at L-1, I don't want to allow a quickhammer while you are making this claim, so here's what I will do, for now:

UNVOTE

If you are town, the maf will quickhammer and leave you without the chance to post your observations. But, I want to add that it is simply NOT fair to wait until deadline to post. If we pull our votes off of you as a group at deadline, you are leaving us with no opportunity to find a reasonable lynch target. I'm giving you some breathing room to post. Today would be a good day to make your cases and to allow us to make a reasonable judgment.

[Barry Allen]

Pine, that unvote simply brings you back to L-2 - please give us your observations sooner than later. It is not fair to the rest of us to make us wait until deadline, particularly with the role claim meaning there may be more people than me who would want the chance to debate other lynch targets.

[hiplop]

he could be mafia RBer quite easily...

[Pine]

I mean to have my reflections finished early this afternoon, Barry. I only had one day off after vacation, and unfortunately I slept in and procrastinated that day. I'm not making this an excuse, I have not done my due diligence to this game. The last couple of days I've been playing catch-up at work, which takes precedence.

[nintendoaddict1]

he could be mafia RBer quite easily...

Here's a recently completed game I was in where there was a mafia RB and they claimed town RB.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3106933

Reply 814 he claims.

[nintendoaddict1]

EBWOP: Yeah, I haven't posted for about three whole pages because MS is silly. They e-mail me ONCE if there is a new post on the thread, and if I miss that one e-mail, well, I have to catch up on almost a hundred posts...

[hiplop]

he could be mafia RBer quite easily...

Here's a recently completed game I was in where there was a mafia RB and they claimed town RB.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3106933

Reply 814 he claims.

its quite common...

[foilist13]

unvote

I'm not going to have an apathy lynch here. Replace out if you don't want to be invovled in the game and let us deal with your replacement.

Vote: Barry Allen

Valern has sparked my interest in you.

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote

I need to reread now.

[hiplop]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: barry allen
I told you guys..

[Barry Allen]

Valern has not read this thread very well, and seems to be tunneling on me without good reason. I'm taking this opportunity to defend myself yet again, as noted below:

Top of Barry's 230 sounds like OMGUS minus the accompanying vote.

Actually, my post included this

:

3. This is where Ace is being overly defensive. If I were ready to FoS you I would have done so.

Please tell me how this is OMGUS. I was defending myself from Ace's post, not OMGUS'ing him.

Not really feeling Barry's case on Hiplop [259]. Seems like he's on his case for playstyle more than anything else. More scumminess from Barry, though, as he spends all that space on a Hiplop case and then backs out with a non-commital "is he scum? i dano lol" at the end. Looks like Barry is dipping his pinky finger in the waters trying to determine if the water's the right temperature for a Hiplop soup.

Please get the quote right if you want to use it against me. This was a post well before I posted a vote, when I was explaining what was then just an FoS on hiplop. My actual quote was:

Now, does this all add up to scum? It's not hard evidence, so I would like to hear more from hiplop upon his return.

I was not doing an LOL "backing away from a case", I was giving hiplop a chance to respond to an FoS before deciding to vote.

Barry's 273 is noted. I haven't really been reading much of the current pages yet, but I'm aware Pine is the lead wagon and that he's been on V/LA. Interested to see if Barry was consistent with his "I don't want to vote someone on V/LA before they post a defense" statement.

I think I have shown my consistency, especially as regards L-1 before Pine gets to defend himself.

Barry 292 - he seems to like to comment on people and say things to the effect of finding them voteworthy without actually placing a vote. Why has this guy not gotten more attention?

I think this is claiming that giving your reads on different players is somehow scummy. That is ridiculous on its face.

Barry 299 - Like his question at scumhunter regarding pine, suspicious of his relative lack of useful comments on Scumhunter's reads.

This looks like tunneling.

SH 305 - "As for my reads list. I want to change it a little. I'm going to back off both my Barry scum read and my hiplop town read a bit" -- okay, sure, so he talked with Barry and found him to be slightly townier. I can see that, even if I don't agree with it. But why is hiplop suddenly scummier when he didn't post, unless he's sheeping Barry's logic (who he previously thought was most scummy behind Ace)? SUSPICIOUS.

More tunneling.

Barry's response to hiplop [335] cements my feelings that this is scum-on-town.

Here is the link to that post.

I responded to hiplop and did NOT vote for him at that time, giving him the opportunity to respond after coming off V/LA.

Barry 340 - He comes in to respond to hiplop and COMPLETELY IGNORES ace's case on Pine. Afraid of having to fake a reaction?

Valern is talking about the post where Ace comments on Pine,

and then votes DemonHybrid in that post instead of Pine

. Why would I go into detail on Ace's case on Pine when Ace was voting for someone else in that same post?

Barry 346 - Suddenly, the typo thing is scummy enough for a vote, despite him saying it was null in 340! AMAZING!

Here is the link to that post.

If you actually read that post you will find that there were a LOT of reasons I was voting hiplop. My note of his typos was an observation after I had made my case, NOT the case itself.

TLDR: Valern took a very poor read of the thread, decided on a lynch target, then went back to twist and misquote posts in order to make his version of a "case". Valern uses Ace's observations as part of his case, ignoring the fact that Ace has long since noted me as a town read. If you compare the actual posts to the misquotes, I believe you will see that this is a bad case.