Newbie 1116 -- Game Over

[VisceraEyes]

I stand by my vote Grimm - and here's my reason.

After 2 weeks, we have a grand total of 27 pages...and no scum suspects. Sure, we have a few people that appear a little scummy, some vague suspicions...but as far as having a clear lynch candidate, we do not. I feel this is at least in PART because of the spam and self-voting of bluepokemon. He's taken SO much time away from scumhunting with his self-voting. And his spam serves NO town-oriented purpose. Mafia though....mafia THRIVE in that kind of environment.

Mafia's FAVORITE Things:
Dead Thread - We've been here over the last two weeks...directly after the mod warned about blue's spam.
Spammy Thread - several days in a row, we had to contend with 6-7 pages per night. SEVERAL people have commented on it.

bluepokemon is WHY we've been contending with BOTH of those things. It's true, I don't so much think he's scum...per se. But if he played ANY better, if he posted ANY more clearly...I'd be CERTAIN he's scum, for these reasons. With bluepokemon gone, we should have a decent environment to sniff out the enemies of the state.

[Cobblerfone]

I can see that. Though I am frustrated that I only have 1 and half people I think are scum that I want to lynch on Day One.

@bigAl, who do you think is scum? How you answer affects my list below.

My lynch list
Day One: bigAl?/Fonz?/bluepokemon (as a back up)
Day Two: Workdawg/bigAl/Fonz?
Day Three: Depends on which of the above flip scum or enviromental factors.

[Cobblerfone]

BTW, I can't find any of the Fonz's previous games.

[Grimmjow]

I stand by my vote Grimm - and here's my reason.

After 2 weeks, we have a grand total of 27 pages...and no scum suspects. Sure, we have a few people that appear a little scummy, some vague suspicions...but as far as having a clear lynch candidate, we do not. I feel this is at least in PART because of the spam and self-voting of bluepokemon. He's taken SO much time away from scumhunting with his self-voting. And his spam serves NO town-oriented purpose. Mafia though....mafia THRIVE in that kind of environment.

Mafia's FAVORITE Things:
Dead Thread - We've been here over the last two weeks...directly after the mod warned about blue's spam.
Spammy Thread - several days in a row, we had to contend with 6-7 pages per night. SEVERAL people have commented on it.

bluepokemon is WHY we've been contending with BOTH of those things. It's true, I don't so much think he's scum...per se. But if he played ANY better, if he posted ANY more clearly...I'd be CERTAIN he's scum, for these reasons. With bluepokemon gone, we should have a decent environment to sniff out the enemies of the state.

Sadly, I agree with this. I'm not going to vote him right now though for the reason I have stated. I feel like placing a vote on him would hinder me from putting in the effort to actually scum-hunt and just say screw it and get this day over with, and I'm not willing to do that just now.

I have a few suspicions, and I'll run through those later (I'm about to go to fill out paperwork for a new job, yay me!), and I look forward to hearing peoples' thoughts on them.

[VisceraEyes]

I stand by my vote Grimm - and here's my reason.

After 2 weeks, we have a grand total of 27 pages...and no scum suspects. Sure, we have a few people that appear a little scummy, some vague suspicions...but as far as having a clear lynch candidate, we do not. I feel this is at least in PART because of the spam and self-voting of bluepokemon. He's taken SO much time away from scumhunting with his self-voting. And his spam serves NO town-oriented purpose. Mafia though....mafia THRIVE in that kind of environment.

Mafia's FAVORITE Things:
Dead Thread - We've been here over the last two weeks...directly after the mod warned about blue's spam.
Spammy Thread - several days in a row, we had to contend with 6-7 pages per night. SEVERAL people have commented on it.

bluepokemon is WHY we've been contending with BOTH of those things. It's true, I don't so much think he's scum...per se. But if he played ANY better, if he posted ANY more clearly...I'd be CERTAIN he's scum, for these reasons. With bluepokemon gone, we should have a decent environment to sniff out the enemies of the state.

Sadly, I agree with this. I'm not going to vote him right now though for the reason I have stated. I feel like placing a vote on him would hinder me from putting in the effort to actually scum-hunt and just say screw it and get this day over with, and I'm not willing to do that just now.

I have a few suspicions, and I'll run through those later (I'm about to go to fill out paperwork for a new job, yay me!), and I look forward to hearing peoples' thoughts on them.

That's an excellent idea. Good luck with the new job, too!

[Tomie Uzumaki]

Vote Cymru

True, I'm not fully done with my case against Viscera (the first part will be posted as I have to go soon), however, it needs to stop that he's ignoring my points against him. Either he has read my post as he has given the link or he ignored every request of mine.

[Tomie Uzumaki]

Viscera:
-My point against Workdawg about him not scumhunting applies for a big part to Viscera as well. You can see it in her first posts already. She questions Grimmjow’s RV, which she later admits that she can feel he thinks his reason was valid, though she sees it as defending Workdawg. The first part means that she can see why he’s questioning Yonzy, so the conclusion she’s making doesn’t add up. Later comes Cymru mentioning he doesn’t want to appear scummy. We only get a question, which doesn’t mean anything and when looking at the opinion she gives later on, this question was strange. EDIT: The same could be said about Cymru’s ‘flip’. Wow, Big EDIT. After mentioning she can see why NewbTown-Cymru would worry about suspicions, she still wants to hear why he worried about it. Very scummy. Edit question: What would you have thought of Cymru had he kept playing the noob-card to defend himself? Next up, she mentioned that she believes active-lurking is one of the scummiest things. Instead of calling those players out, she ‘warns’ them. There was also her vote on Zihark, which comes closest to scumhunting, but got minus points there when she directs other players towards Cymru by asking other players their opinion on him. I could continue this point, but then it would become too long.
-Then comes her post full with opinions on some players. I don’t see the points against BigAl and Grimmjow. But that’s not the important bit. That comes later on as BigAl responded to her case. She never mentions it and I’m wondering why. This points gets even worse as she mentions that most points still stand against him after BigAl posted his explanations.
-One of her accusations she made was against Miss JJ, who only responded to the part aimed at her. In post 148, Viscera does exactly the same to Grimmjow. To make things worse, it’s at that time that she refers to the less active players. I can see this as an attempt to get attentiuon elsewhere, a point Cymru also has against him. And as an extra, she later does have something to say about Grimmjow’s analysis in the post in which she votes him.
Talking about the case against Grimmjow, Grimmjow explained a lot in his response to you. Even with questions. Yet, you ignored it completely by mentioning he doesn’t state why your case is bad. Which is exactly what he did.
-I think it was already clear that I didn’t like her ‘no lynch’ vote.
-And yes, I also didn’t like Viscera’s quick turn-around. First we have the vote against Grimmjow, which will be the wagon she’ll be pushing towards the end. She unvotes out of rage that nobody had responded (which isn’t quite strange due to the inactiveness which was present at that time) and then decides to stop scumhunting for the day. Eventually, she also stops with that. One thing needs to be added as mentioned before, she also fully ignored Grimmjow’s defense as she doesn’t respond to any of his points. And last, my thoughts about this gets further reinforced as she has mentioned somewhere after I replaced in that Workdawg had valid reasons to vote her. I need to find it sometimish :/

(This is up to the part where she went for the no-lynch. Perhaps now you guys understand why it's taking so long >.<)

[VisceraEyes]

Wowie zowie! I don't even know where to BEGIN to respond to that, Tomie! (maybe that was the point? )

But I'm gonna try. Let me go back and refresh on some of the earlier stuff this game and I'll be back.

[Cobblerfone]

Please seperate into paragraphs in the future. Thank you. Also, VE's a dude as it says under his avatar. Your post sounds like you c+p'd straight from your notes, and I don't mean to be rude but it's got a sort of rambly tone. It'd be more helpful if you had quotes or links. It'd also be more helpful if you sounded more committed.

[VisceraEyes]

@Tomie
Re: cymru

cymru stated already that the game in question was played several months ago, and due to site remodeling, their archive of games was lost.

Perhaps you could read the ENTIRE thread before making a case against someone? Some of your points might be made invalid after reading (see cymru96), and you'll have more information.

[Workdawg]

ZOMG, Tomie's post is a wall of text like no other. I'm having trouble following it all due to the rambling. Cobbler put it perfectly. It seems like he just took a bunch of speed and started a brain dump onto the thread and didn't bother to proof read any of it.

It also doesn't help that he's like 20 pages behind...

For my actual thoughts on this... is this 90% IIOA? I appreciate you pretty much proving that you read the thread, but what are your THOUGHTS about these actions? You only mention a handful of actual questions/suspicions in all of that. It's like a review of what's happened and that's it.

I actually copied his post into MS Word so that I can go through and format it better and stuff. I ended up bolding the sections that actually expressed thoughts aside from "scummy" and yeah... I found 8 sentences out of all of that.

Viscera:
-My point against Workdawg about him not scumhunting applies for a big part to Viscera as well. You can see it in her first posts already. She questions Grimmjow’s RV, which she later admits that she can feel he thinks his reason was valid, though she sees it as defending Workdawg.

The first part means that she can see why he’s questioning Yonzy, so the conclusion she’s making doesn’t add up.

Later comes Cymru mentioning he doesn’t want to appear scummy. We only get a question, which doesn’t mean anything and when looking at the opinion she gives later on, this question was strange. EDIT: The same could be said about Cymru’s ‘flip’. Wow, Big EDIT. After mentioning she can see why NewbTown-Cymru would worry about suspicions, she still wants to hear why he worried about it. Very scummy.

Edit question: What would you have thought of Cymru had he kept playing the noob-card to defend himself?

Next up, she mentioned that she believes active-lurking is one of the scummiest things. Instead of calling those players out, she ‘warns’ them. There was also her vote on Zihark, which comes closest to scumhunting,

but got minus points there when she directs other players towards Cymru by asking other players their opinion on him.

I could continue this point, but then it would become too long.
-Then comes her post full with opinions on some players.

I don’t see the points against BigAl and Grimmjow.

But that’s not the important bit. That comes later on as BigAl responded to her case. She never mentions it and I’m wondering why.

This points gets even worse as she mentions that most points still stand against him after BigAl posted his explanations.

-One of her accusations she made was against Miss JJ, who only responded to the part aimed at her. In post 148, Viscera does exactly the same to Grimmjow. To make things worse, it’s at that time that she refers to the less active players.

I can see this as an attempt to get attentiuon elsewhere, a point Cymru also has against him.

And as an extra, she later does have something to say about Grimmjow’s analysis in the post in which she votes him.
Talking about the case against Grimmjow, Grimmjow explained a lot in his response to you. Even with questions. Yet, you ignored it completely by mentioning he doesn’t state why your case is bad. Which is exactly what he did.
-

I think it was already clear that I didn’t like her ‘no lynch’ vote.

-

And yes, I also didn’t like Viscera’s quick turn-around.

First we have the vote against Grimmjow, which will be the wagon she’ll be pushing towards the end. She unvotes out of rage that nobody had responded (which isn’t quite strange due to the inactiveness which was present at that time) and then decides to stop scumhunting for the day. Eventually, she also stops with that. One thing needs to be added as mentioned before, she also fully ignored Grimmjow’s defense as she doesn’t respond to any of his points. And last,

my thoughts about this gets further reinforced as she has mentioned somewhere after I replaced in that Workdawg had valid reasons to vote her.

I need to find it sometimish :/

(This is up to the part where she went for the no-lynch. Perhaps now you guys understand why it's taking so long >.<)

Even with all that, there's almost no real analysis of anything.

[Cobblerfone]

Where did Cymru go? He was just here. It's been 12 hours since his last post. Don't you have anything to say, Cymru, or a list of reads? I'm still waiting for bigAl and Fonz but if it weren't for that I think I'd put him at L-1 now.

[Grimmjow]

Ok, I want to state this right now:

PEOPLE: PLEASE DO NOT CONTINUE TO VOTE ON CY OR BLUE UNLESS YOU HAVE A VALID REASON OTHER THAN "LET'S JUST GET THEM OUT OF THE GAME SO WE CAN PROGRESS." THIS DOES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO HELP THE TOWN AND INSTEAD HELPS MAFIA MORE BECAUSE IT CUTS DOWN ON THE NUMBER OF TOWN PLAYERS. IF WE GET CLOSE TO THE DEADLINE AND DON'T HAVE ANYTHING SUBSTANTIAL ON ANYONE ELSE, THE YES, WE CAN GET RID OF

ONE

OF THEM, BUT WE NEED TO COME TO A CONSENSUS AS TO WHICH IT WILL BE.

That is all for now.

Analysis/thoughts coming soon since I just got home.

[cymru96]

where did I go? I went to bed, got up, went to school, came home, did homework, played video games, read the mafia stuff, found Tommie's essay pointless and suspicious.

I am now in a dilema. I still think Cobbler is scummy cause of the miss JJ thing but I'm not sure between Tommie and Blue.
Blue- says random stuff and votes for me stupidly.
Tommie- Much ado about nothing. (said loads that made no sense.) It looked like scum who didn't know what to do so he tried to write stuff which failed.

I shall not unvote because I think of the two, Blue is currently most suspicious of the two and if we're scumhunting t'would be a waste of a vote on cobbler coz no one would belive me.

FoS- Cobblerfone
Fos- Tommie Uzumaki

[Cobblerfone]

where did I go? I went to bed, got up, went to school, came home, did homework, played video games, read the mafia stuff, found Tommie's essay pointless and suspicious

I saw you lurking before I posted. What were you doing, and why didn't you post until I called you out?

I still think Cobbler is scummy cause of the miss JJ thing but I'm not sure between Tommie and Blue.

What Miss JJ thing?

[Grimmjow]

where did I go? I went to bed, got up, went to school, came home, did homework, played video games, read the mafia stuff, found Tommie's essay pointless and suspicious.

I am now in a dilema. I still think Cobbler is scummy cause of the miss JJ thing but I'm not sure between Tommie and Blue.
Blue- says random stuff and votes for me stupidly.
Tommie- Much ado about nothing. (said loads that made no sense.) It looked like scum who didn't know what to do so he tried to write stuff which failed.

I shall not unvote because I think of the two, Blue is currently most suspicious of the two and if we're scumhunting t'would be a waste of a vote on cobbler coz no one would belive me.

FoS- Cobblerfone
Fos- Tommie Uzumaki

Actually, this came off as the most logical post that you have made thus far. I would actually like to hear your reasoning behind a potential cobbler vote.

[Workdawg]

+1 to what Grimm said.

[Grimmjow]

Ok, so I've had a gut feeling about Cobbler since he stepped into this game. It's one of those situations where I can't completely put my finger on it, but I just have a feeling. Which, mind you, was the case in my last game as well and the guy DID turn out to be scum. So I went back through his ISO and found these things:

@Jailkeeper: see above, except imprison bigAl.

FTR, if Al is scum, he can just have his scumbuddy submit the NK and it'll still happen. Just FYI.

but also because town shouldn't want to know if they exist or not.

But, I never said that they should reveal themselves. EVER. That wasn't even what the disclaimer was about. It was about who I think they should target. I think bigAl is the best investigative and imprison choice. Why? Because he's the IC and people seem to not be trusting him because he seems suspicious, but they also don't seem to be that keen on lynching him because he's the IC. Therefore, no matter what read the Cop gets, if there is one, it's a win-win. The problem would of course be how the cop is supposed to communicate an innocent result. sigh. If the cop ever gets a guilty they should of course vote for the guilty party.

And maybe, claim depending on how surprising the result is.

.

This sounds to me like scum saying "Cop, if you're here, investigate bigAl cuz I know he'll come back town and then tell us that he's town so we can NK yooooooou."

And the only reason I brought it up is because if bigAl is town, he'll be protected even if there isn't a jailkeeper because of anti-scum mindgames

WIFOM what.

Interesting. In the EXACT SAME POST:

Except that, as I stated before, WIFOM is a great tool for scum...

It's not really that dangerous.

It's just something you have to ignore.

@IC, this is good, yes? I wouldn't want people thinking I'm trying to manipulate them through some kind of ridiculous scheme.

Again, this sounds scummy to me.

I've seen a self-hammer twice. That's all I'll say. Besides that the ONLY time it's EVER a good idea to self-hammer is if you're scum because it basically ends discussion.

"HEY NOOB SCUMBUDDY. HAMMER YOURSELF IF IT COMES DOWN TO IT THAT WAY ALL DISCUSSION IS ENDED AND I CAN CONTINUE WITHOUT NOTICE."

Blue you seem like you have good potential. Don't squander it. If you're scum this might actually be even more frustrating because this is making me want to not vote you.

See above...

It's why I'm not worried about him, 'cause I figure if he is scum it won't be too hard to tell.

How do you figure?

Never answered this...

But I just thought of something that's actually kind of obvious at this point. I'm not going to say what it is.

... HOW IS THIS BENEFICIAL TO THE TOWN AT ALL?!?!?!

I'm just saying that your reasoning for voting the Fonz is very... weak. And then you turn around and unvote him but didn't really explain why, and I didn't understand what you were saying. But seriously, you're rational for voting the Fonz over Workdawg is really sketchy. I'm not saying Workdawg is scum, I'm just saying that you have explained more reasons to vote him then you have the Fonz. It just didn't make sense to me.

All will be revealed on day two. Unless I'm killed, but it won't matter if I am.

Again, how is this beneficial to the town. Unless of course you are lynched today and flip scum.

And if you are killed, don't you think that it would be better to share your reasonings now, while you can? Why hide stuff? That can't be good for the town.

I already said that if I get killed it'll have no bearing on it whatsoever.

This.. makes... no... sense... at... all...

@bigAl, who do you think is scum? How you answer affects my list below.

My lynch list
Day One: bigAl?/Fonz?/bluepokemon (as a back up)
Day Two: Workdawg/bigAl/Fonz?
Day Three: Depends on which of the above flip scum or enviromental factors.

So, you ask his opinion on who he thinks is scum, but you find him to be scum. If he's scum, and he says that someone else is scum, then likely isn't that person town? So, if you follow that logic, his opinion on who is scum doesn't matter because, if you're town, you want scum lynched, not town.

VOTE: Cobblerfone

for purposefully denying information from the town, seeming to buddy up with someone who is not being beneficial at all, following faulty logic, and general scum gut-read.

[cymru96]

Remember I was sure that Miss JJ was scum and cause cobbler replaced her I'm suspicious of him. I'm less sure now but it still warrants a FoS

[Cobblerfone]

FTR, if Al is scum, he can just have his scumbuddy submit the NK and it'll still happen. Just FYI.

If he's town, he'll be safe, if he's the mafia rolecop, he can't find info. If we lynch his buddy today, he can't submit the kill.

If the cop ever gets a guilty they should of course vote for the guilty party.

And maybe, claim depending on how surprising the result is..

This sounds to me like scum saying "Cop, if you're here, investigate bigAl cuz I know he'll come back town and then tell us that he's town so we can NK yooooooou."

GEE I WONDER WHAT MY SENTENCE ACTUALLY MEANT.

"HEY NOOB SCUMBUDDY. HAMMER YOURSELF IF IT COMES DOWN TO IT THAT WAY ALL DISCUSSION IS ENDED AND I CAN CONTINUE WITHOUT NOTICE."

HEY SCUM. GO AHEAD AND HAMMER YOURSELF SO WE'RE DOWN TO ONE SCUM. KTHNX.

It's why I'm not worried about him, 'cause I figure if he is scum it won't be too hard to tell.

How do you figure?
Never answered this...

I'm sorry, I just thought it was so obvious. Especially since soon after blue posted his infamous "im bored" post.

But I just thought of something that's actually kind of obvious at this point. I'm not going to say what it is.

... HOW IS THIS BENEFICIAL TO THE TOWN AT ALL?!?!?!

YOU ARE RIGHT. NO TOWNIE WOULD EVER HIDE INFORMATION. ALL THE POWER ROLES ARE OBVIOUSLY SCUM.

So, you ask his opinion on who he thinks is scum, but you find him to be scum. If he's scum, and he says that someone else is scum, then likely isn't that person town? So, if you follow that logic, his opinion on who is scum doesn't matter because, if you're town, you want scum lynched, not town.

YEAH. BECAUSE

HOW

HE REACTS TO THAT CANNOT EVER HAVE ANY BEARING ON MY READ OF HIM WHATSOEVER.

PREDIT:

Remember I was sure that Miss JJ was scum and cause cobbler replaced her I'm suspicious of him. I'm less sure now but it still warrants a FoS

That was the Fonz that replaced Miss JJ. I replaced tucah. Also, why did it take so long for your last post to be posted? (Not the one I'm quoting)

[Grimmjow]

YOU ARE RIGHT. NO TOWNIE WOULD EVER HIDE INFORMATION. ALL THE POWER ROLES ARE OBVIOUSLY SCUM.

So wait, what? You just claimed a PR? Seriously? Considering your post here:

Power roles can feel free to ignore this, but this is what I would do:
@Cop: If you exist, don't reveal yourself, that goes without saying. But I'd say look at bigAl tonight.
@Jailkeeper: see above, except imprison bigAl.
[/WIFOM for Mafia]

I'm not buying it at all.

[Grimmjow]

It's why I'm not worried about him, 'cause I figure if he is scum it won't be too hard to tell.

How do you figure?
Never answered this...

I'm sorry, I just thought it was so obvious. Especially since soon after blue posted his infamous "im bored" post.

So you STILL didn't answer this.

[Cobblerfone]

So wait, what? You just claimed a PR? Seriously? Considering your post here:

I am not claiming that I have a power role. And even if I did it wouldn't make sense in this context.

So you STILL didn't answer this.

You still don't see it?

im bored

^^^THAT^^^ kind of posting is why I do not fear blue.

[Grimmjow]

YOU ARE RIGHT. NO TOWNIE WOULD EVER HIDE INFORMATION. ALL THE POWER ROLES ARE OBVIOUSLY SCUM.

PRs, yes, would hide that they're PRs, but this just doesn't make sense. You keep claiming to have information that wont matter if your lynched, but you wont tell anyone what it is. That just doesn't make ANY sense whatsoever.

[Cobblerfone]

PRs, yes, would hide that they're PRs, but this just doesn't make sense. You keep claiming to have information that wont matter if your lynched, but you wont tell anyone what it is. That just doesn't make ANY sense whatsoever.

It sounds like you're trying to trick me into giving away something. It won't work. Also, I forgot one of your points:

WIFOM what.

Interesting. In the EXACT SAME POST:

Except that, as I stated before, WIFOM is a great tool for scum...

It's not really that dangerous. It's just something you have to ignore.

Yeah, because those were totally the same situations I was refering to. One is for the scum where the answer if you ignore the mind games is "Don't target bigAl", the other is for the town where the answer is "Ignore anyone that says, 'I wouldn't have done that as scum,'"