New York 131: Tricycle Mafia (Day 5)

[nhammen]

Pine... nevermind

Everyone list of most to least suspected

My recent posts contained a similar list, but not in order. However, Zepher's claim changed my list. It is now
NS
Zepher
Pine
Silver
Uite
Max
Toon

@Maxous 1187: This is a great case against Zepher, and another good reason for him to be at the top of my list.

I was going to post a well thought out, and cleverly worded post on why Pine is an idiot and scum, BUT when I went back to see exactly what it was that Pine is taking as a breadcrumbed cop clear (which there is none btw.) and noticed that I think Nhammen is the only person to disagree with my case.
I mean, it seems weird but I'd like to know where everyone stands on my case with Maxous and why you disagree with it if you do.

This goes for Nhammen too as I don't think I ever inquired as to why you disagreed with my post on Maxous.

Just for reference, when you ask someone to answer an earlier question, it is considerate to either include a link to the previous question or quote it, so that people know what you are referring to without forcing them to read your entire iso.
I assume you are referring to post 1084. If so, I find that most of your points are tunneling, but some are valid. Lets go through your iso case:
#0 was a very good post in my opinion, which I believe I agreed with at the time, if I remember correctly.
#7 I agree with Maxous entirely and do not see any baseless reasoning.
#14 I agree with you. In hindsight it looks bad. Real bad.
#15 and #16 ehhh. Maybe. I can see it, but its kind of a flimsy case. Everyone unvoted silver, because of a claimed cop clear. For the vote for Amor to be bad, you would have to explain why it looks like bussing.
#18 I have used the same "more likely to be lynched" logic before, in another game, so I can't fault him for this. But the damning thing here, is that it is a counterwagon for the Amor wagon. Bad.
#22 This is a point for town Max not against him. He didnt ask DK to provide Max's reasons for Toon scum. He asked DK to provide DK's reasons for Toon scum. This does not seem like bussing to me.
#23 ehhh. I see this to, but not sure what significance it has, especially given that DK did something similar with you.
#26 agree that this is really bad.
#40 Ummm... You can't do that. You can't say that it is bad to end the day quickly, and then say it is bad to not end the day quickly. You can't have it both ways.
#48 PoE is a perfectly valid method of scumhunting, if there are many townreads. However, I do have to say that to me, there are not nearly enough townreads to use PoE.
#55-#64 I have said before that I see the case that these are bad, but do not fully agree.
#69 I don't see why you bring it up

In conclusion, some of these cases have merit, but there is much towny behavior from Maxous that I really can't see him as scum.

I asked because it popped into my head at the time and I was curious what it meant.
I've never gotten a definite answer and I didn't want to take the time to check the wiki lol.

Oh you mean Pine hasn't actually been defending him?
Your question of the evidence behind NS scum is soft-defending him?

OH WELL PARDON FUCKING ME.
I'M JUST A LOWLY FUCKING JOAT WHO KNOWS THAT KoC DIDN'T FUCKING INVESTIGATE NS.

This claim is the other reason that you are high on my scumlist. An easy way out of being highly suspected. If it is true, it removes every reason for not voting for NS. However, you earlier claimed VT in 1162. Changing claims like this is scummy, and the way you kept soft claiming until forced is scummy as well. So this claim is not too believable. And if the claim is false, then not voting NS is the correct choice. Now, I do not see a Zepher/NS scumteam here, so this appears to be a straight 1 for 1 situation.

@Toon
I want to avoid claiming my role 100%, but smart town should be able to figure out my other two actions.

Ummm... this is also hellishly scummy. If smart town can figure out the other two actions, then so can smart scum. So why the FFFFF are you not claiming?! Oh, I think I can guess the remaining powers, but this is still horrible. If you are town, there is a thread in MD about claiming that you obviously never read. If you are scum, keep doing this, cuz itll get you lynched nice and fast.

@silver
Because it's easier then not claiming and having people suspect you for it.

Yeah, because changing your claim afterwards is not suspicious at all.[/sarcasm]

@Maxous 1227: I completely agree. All of his actions are scummy as heck.

[nhammen]

So, on the one hand, Zepher's claim is not very believable, but on the other hand, standard practice in a 1 for 1 is to lynch the non-power role. We have 2 days left, so I would like NS to claim before the lynch, if possible.

[Maxous]

Pine -
Mr.Zepher claimed to be a VT earlier when he did'nt need to. As he was about to be lynched he claims he is a JoaT who had a watcher role and misunderstood how to use his role(because he did'nt use it on the masons like any town would), luckily through this blunder he used it on the one person who was his counter-wagon as he was about to be lynched, and luckily got the exact result he needs to be able to push the NS wagon.
Come on.

[Pine]

I'm sorry, what was the result you desired from me? An immediate Zepher vote? No. He's a claimed JOAT, and deserves a chance to prove himself. He gets vigged if he's wrong.

If he turns out to be telling the truth, we probably still have a Doctor, considering that I highly doubt that a picture like this one:



...is going to be passed up.

So tell me, Max. What reaction were you fishing for?

[Pine]

Found that by Googling "ambulance tricycle"

[Nobody Special]

I normally wouldn't claim until I was at L-1, but I already was once, and deadline is looming, so.

I'm a 1-shot bulletproof Townie.

[Pine]

You're at L-1 now, too.

Not entirely sure what to make of that claim.

[Nobody Special]

Well, I missed your vote. I just looked at the last votecount.

[Maxous]

So tell me, Max. What reaction were you fishing for?

An immediate Zepher vote

You beleive him?

And what does the a hypothetical doctor have to with him?

@mod: Can you prod Uite with vengenace before the deadline please?

P-Edit: Well we have an obvious solution here don't we? (hint: Toon Fighter)
Though that would be a convenient fakeclaim.

You know what screw it - nhammen, we are going to need you to claim.

[Uite]

b]@mod: Can you prod Uite with vengenace before the deadline please?[/b]

What is it you need me so desperately for?

[nhammen]

Since I am the only unclaimed person here, I'm going to claim VT right now. Sorry to disappoint Pine, apparently there is no Doctor.

[nhammen]

So... they are both claiming power roles. How convenient. I can't believe they are both lying. But with how scummy they both have been, at least one must be. So, which one is lying?

Wait! NS, you are bulletproof? Bulletproof should play to draw the mafia kill! You have been lurking your ass off, and playing hellishly scummy. That's not the way a bulletproof plays.

[Pine]

So tell me, Max. What reaction were you fishing for?

An immediate Zepher vote

You beleive him?

Not especially. But you don't lynch the claimed PR unless it's LyLo. You give them one chance to prove themselves, either by demonstrating their role or by attracting the night kill, and you vig or lynch their ass if they prove false.

This is basic game theory. Worried that your mate is going to go down?

[quadz08]

The Votecount Which Ninth Occurs on Day the Fourth

With 8 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

silverbullet999 (0) –
nhammen (0) –
Pine (0) –

L-2 --->

MrZepher (3) – Maxous, Nobody Special, silverbullet999

L-1 --->

Nobody Special (4) – Uite, MrZepher, Toon Fighter, Pine
Uite (0) -
Toon Fighter (0) –
Maxous (0) –

Not Voting (1) – Nhammen

Toon Fighter is V/LA until the 26th.

Deadline is in (expired on 2011-06-26 02:00:00)

[silverbullet999]

@mod V/LA til tuesday I believe

[MrZepher]

b]@mod: Can you prod Uite with vengenace before the deadline please?[/b]

What is it you need me so desperately for?

What is your take on this entire situation here.

@Nhammen
No I haven't read the thread on claiming, I've never really read much in Mafia Discussion.
I guess in hindsight that post does seem really bad, but it felt appropriate to say at the time.

As for my case I can kind of see where I was tunneling but there are one or two things I disagree with you on. (#40 mostly, but it was nice to get an opinion from somebody who's close to confirmed town to me)
We can discuss more tomorrow if for some reason I'm still alive, but I'm not going to worry about it now since Max obviously isn't going to be today's lynch and the odds of me surviving the night in any manner are slim.

@Maxous
I didn't fucking know I should have watched the masons. I told you, idfk how to be a good watcher
What do you mean I didn't need to? What am I just supposed to claim JOAT when I feel like I have a likely chance of not being the lynch?
Like seriously I don't get how that is a point against me.

@NS
Shenanigans!
You're town, AND we shouldn't waste a vig on you. Right.
And MY claim's convenient? (You didn't say that I know, but still)
How are we supposed to believe that when you have yet to play like town?

[Maxous]

That is all Uite has to say? Ugh.

Worried that your mate is going to go down?

Correct.
When I see my mafia buddy under a lot of pressure to be lynched when the town has a vig and a mislynch available, I decide the best strategy is to tie myself as closely as possible to my pal, so when he flips scum I can make sure without a doubt I will be next to be lynched.
Lulz

Anyway I'm not risking a no-lynch. I won't be here tomorrow.

Unvote

VOTE: Nobody Special

[MrZepher]

That is all Uite has to say? Ugh.

Worried that your mate is going to go down?

Correct.
When I see my mafia buddy under a lot of pressure to be lynched when the town has a vig and a mislynch available, I decide the best strategy is to tie myself as closely as possible to my pal, so when he flips scum I can make sure without a doubt I will be next to be lynched.
Lulz

Anyway I'm not risking a no-lynch. I won't be here tomorrow.

Unvote

VOTE: Nobody Special

WIFOM and who ever said anything about a no lynch?
What kind of reasoning is that?

[quadz08]

The Votecount Which Tenth Occurs on Day the Fourth

With 8 players alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

silverbullet999 (0) –
nhammen (0) –
Pine (0) –
MrZepher (2) – Nobody Special, silverbullet999

Lynch! --->

Nobody Special (5) – Uite, MrZepher, Toon Fighter, Pine, Maxous
Uite (0) -
Toon Fighter (0) –
Maxous (0) –

Not Voting (1) – Nhammen

Toon Fighter is V/LA until the 26th.
Silverbullet999 is V/LA until the 28th.

A lynch has been reached. Modscene will be up soon.

[quadz08]

Nobody Special has been lynched.

He was a

One-shot Bulletproof Townie.

Night 4 begins now. Actions are due in 72 hours.

[quadz08]

Toon Fighter has been killed. He was a

Town Vig.

Maxous has been killed. He was a

Vanilla Townie.

Day 5 Begins

The Dawn of Day Five Votecount

With 5 players alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

silverbullet999 (0) –
nhammen (0) –
Pine (0) –
MrZepher (0) –
Uite (0) -

Not Voting (5) – Nhammen, Uite, MrZepher, Pine, silverbullet999

Silverbullet999 is V/LA until the 28th.

Deadline is in (expired on 2011-07-12 00:00:00)

[Pine]

:/

Well, I owe them both apologies in endgame.

I blocked Zepher.

Vote: Zepher

[silverbullet999]

I'm going to assume toon killed off Max, and scum killed off toon

Pine.... are you just literally trying to be the worst town role blocker in all of existence... or are you just a scum role blocker.

The whole point of zepher being kept alive was to protect toon as he said so his friggen self. I could easily see a pine zeph scum team but i'm not fully sure of that... nham shit if I know.. maybe sk if that's possible... uite... again shit if I know... but good god man.

This idiocy has to stop

VOTE: Pine

I'm not moving this... for better or worse... probably better.

-Zeph
What is your last ability?

(Also would like to place money that we don't have an sk and that's it's just two mafia left since the game hasn't ended yet.)

[Pine]

Are you kidding? Zeph was lying, or at least forced the lynch off of himself and onto a Townie. I thought we were clear on this.

It is now apparent that the KoC clear on NS was legit. It's common for scum PRs to claim JOAT.

[silverbullet999]

Are you kidding? Zeph was lying, or at least forced the lynch off of himself and onto a Townie. I thought we were clear on this.

It is now apparent that the KoC clear on NS was legit. It's common for scum PRs to claim JOAT.

Zeph may or may not have been lying, he laid the claim that Toon would not die at night as long as he was left alive.

Your blocking prevented this. Thus essentially preventing Toon from being alive and Zeph from proving or disproving his claim.

I don't care what's common.