Mini 1194: Reverse Mafia [Game Over]

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: Parama

As I remember saying in a previous game, when you're sane, you're dangerous to the scum. Scum cannot tolerate your in-your-face playstyle.

[StrangerCoug]

Oh, yes. I remember that game very well.

[StrangerCoug]

There is probably some truth to his statement, seeing how the recently-finished Color Concentration Mafia put me on a five-game losing streak as scum.

...Why not?

UNVOTE: Parama
VOTE: StrangerCoug

[StrangerCoug]

For the sake of fair voting, I am not going to participate in RVS.

The hell? This is not the RVS; right now Parama's discussing player meta to determine who should be revived. Nobody's vote is random in either the usually applied sense or the true sense.

[StrangerCoug]

RVS as interpreted by me is a random voting stage, where there is no true backing to a vote.

How do our votes lack "true backing"? I voted Parama because he can be a vicious scumhunter, while my self-vote is admittedly a bit WIFOM-based as I don't see why someone who's been crap as scum lately would offer him- or herself to be revived unless the person is town.

[StrangerCoug]

Why can't I make a random vote? Just because no one else is doing it doesn't mean I have to. Its not counterproductive at all to acknowledge something different is being done, but vote in the usual manner.

Here's a hint: When people are actually contributing, the RVS is over. There were already a few people that were major topics of discussion: Parama and I are the main candidates for revival, while Awesoma is being viewed as scummy. You chose to talk about none of us, so I don't plan on reviving you in the foreseeable future.

[StrangerCoug]

Why didn't you claim that in your first post?

[StrangerCoug]

Yeah. I reread your post, and that makes sense.

[StrangerCoug]

Also, I did talk about Awesoma.

I stand corrected, but it is still weird that you chose to place a random vote when you knew there was actual content posted.

[StrangerCoug]

For now, Parama, StrangerCoug, and Awesoma are my top three scumspects (ugly wagon, ugly self-vote, and ugly Par-vote, respectively)

Explain how our actions are "ugly".

[StrangerCoug]

I believe Slaxx is telling the truth about his role. Let's get something useful here.

UNVOTE: StrangerCoug
VOTE: Slaxx

[StrangerCoug]

I'll go ahead and VOTE: Parama for Day 0.5. No narcissism this time.

[StrangerCoug]

This needs some thought. Again, no narcissism this time.

[StrangerCoug]

I'll post in more detail tomorrow afternoon (as soon as I finish the baked potato I'm hitting the shower and then the sack), but kiwieagle and AntB rub me the wrong way.

[StrangerCoug]

OK, time to elaborate on my post from last night.

I don't like kiwieagle's response to Slaxx when the latter said the former was probably scum. Instead of probing why Slaxx thought this, kiwieagle plays the "woe is me" card, assumes Slaxx is after him for trying to scumhunt, and then when an actual reason from Slaxx is given he tries to spread the blame on others.

I was going to ask AntB on what he was holding off at post #125 (I was worried he was going to exempt himself from contributing), but post #135 answers that question.

I like Packbat's current attempts to stir up activity, so I'm going to VOTE: Packbat for right now. If I get another strong town read, I'll take that into consideration.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm pretty sure I've got two of the scum—crypto and kiwieagle. wredfar or his replacement needs to post before I can even form an opinion of him, but crypto's arbitrary attack on him is clearly scummy. kiwieagle was explained in my last post.

Packbat is still the person I'm most in favor in reviving.

[StrangerCoug]

1. He never said I was probably scum

1 of (Kiwi/Bob) probably is scum.

Sorry, but unless your point is that he is not singling you out, mine stands. Even so, he still has you as a suspect and you react badly.

2. "woe is me" card? I was trying to find out why my vote was "ugly"

Explain #118 then.

3. Everyone voted Parama, just that I was one of the final ones because I didnt know the thread had started. I NEVER tried to spread the blame on others, I only asked "what makes my vote any uglier?"

There's a difference between "my vote is as ugly as anybody else's" and "why is my vote uglier than everybody else's?", I'm afraid.

[StrangerCoug]

OK, I understand what you're talking about in #3.

[StrangerCoug]

This needs some thought. Again, no narcissism this time.

What changed?

Both of my strong town reads at the time other than myself were revived. If your question is about my "no narcissism" comment, I simply thought my vote was more useful on somebody other than myself. We won't get anywhere if we all self-vote, now will we?

I was going to ask AntB on what he was holding off at post #125 (I was worried he was going to exempt himself from contributing), but post #135 answers that question.

And leaves many more questions unanswered.

What questions?

I like Packbat's current attempts to stir up activity, so I'm going to VOTE: Packbat for right now. If I get another strong town read, I'll take that into consideration.

Examples?[/quote]
The main standout is his encouragement of getting people to participate at the end of #133. Mafia wins because of inactive players too many times for my liking anymore.

I disagree with Parama about crypto. The latter and wredfar don't make sense as both scum, and the necessary change of Mafia strategy that Parama brought up has been taken into account, but I still don't see crypto-town. I'm convinced enough of Parama's case on Packbat to UNVOTE: Packbat, however.

Slaxx makes a good point in #187—I don't think scum would want to effectively claim vanilla townie that early. VOTE: kiwieagle.

[StrangerCoug]

I am not reading kiwi's posts anymore if he does not start posting outside of quotes. I encourage the rest of the players to do the same.

You may share my personal preference, but the fact that someone does not do things the way you want him to does not per se warrant ignoring him.

[StrangerCoug]

I still think kiwieagle townslipped. If you're going to claim you have no power role early in the game, you'd better know what the heck you're doing, and I highly doubt scum is going to close one of their options with practically no information but what the mod told them at their disposal.

[StrangerCoug]

Also SC's vote on kiwi and his justification on #245. He appears to be informed about the information that was given to mafia, and that worries me

I fail to see how this is so; unless this is a bastard mod game, the scum PM is not going to merely say, "You are Mafia." Scum almost certainly has information town doesn't have—at the very least, who else is aligned with them. This is basic.

Wow, looking at StrangerCoug's ISO, that vote looks even worse than it did before - he was insisting that kiwieagle looked scummy right up until someone said, "scum claiming VT is risky", and then did

a complete 180

. Simple WIFOM considerations ought to prevent you from reversing your read that completely based on a single datum, and he never offers any other justification for his change of mind.

So? I'm happy with the two revivals we've had so far. Factoring a townie out of the equation will not increase the chances of Mafia being revived by that much yet. Currently, the chances of reviving Mafia are somewhere between 10% and 30% depending on Slaxx and Parama's alignments, factoring a townie out of the equation will only bump it up to between 11% and 33%.

[StrangerCoug]

Why am I not surprised by the "not there" feeling I get from reading crypto's posts?

@Everybody: Who do you like better: me or packbat?

You for right now.

[StrangerCoug]

UNVOTE: kiwieagle since it isn't doing anything.

When I see an official count, I'll vote.

[StrangerCoug]

Disappointed in the Packbat revival, but oh well. We have two solid town breathing.

[StrangerCoug]

Disappointed in the Packbat revival, but oh well. We have two solid town breathing.

So why weren't you voting someone you found better?

I wanted to be sure of the count before I did anything.

[StrangerCoug]

OK, the living players mess with my reads. If I understand this right, crypto and Packbat can't both be scum or the game would be over, but if they're both town I am going to jump off the Empire State Building. I'm more inclined to accept that crypto is simply having difficulties townhunting, which condemns Packbat at the moment.

I'm really not all that concerned about the negative attention. Slaxx thinks that I am scum if Packbat is town, and it is fine for him to think that. You want to know why Slaxx's if-then statement doesn't concern me? Because I believe Packbat is scum.

I'm not concerned about what Pomegranate said about me either. Why not? Because she did not demonstrate why waiting to vote someone is scummy. I'm not going to fight that it's anti-town, because in hindsight I realize I should have just voted Bub Bidderskins, but scum leaving their vote idle doesn't get them anywhere.

The quick revival of Packbat after the vote count takes kiwieagle out of my top town read and makes me question whether clearing him was a good idea. (I know, "decide, damn it," but my mind is screwed enough right now.) The other person to vote Packbat after the count already flipped town.

Bub Bidderskins is really my best answer here.

[StrangerCoug]

The main thing is I believe Parama's case on you. crypto could indeed be town if you are, but I worry about his overall lack of contribution and his complaints about not being able to townhunt. You make up my top two right now, but logically at most one of you can be scum, so I picked the lesser of two evils.

[StrangerCoug]

Ah, so you have nothing of value to contribute to the conversation. Much appreciated.

Why do my stated reads of the people other than you two have nothing of value?

[StrangerCoug]

Even though multiple people said they would make their decision after a vote count?

Yes. I wasn't fond of the Packbat wagon and kiwieagle did not announce an intention to wait until such a point. kiwieagle's vote is the only point at which he states whether he prefers Packbat or kiwieagle.

This is actually a good point for why I dislike Pomegranate right now—if multiple people said they'd decide after seeing a vote count, why have I been singled out?

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: Packbat or Bud Bidderskins

[StrangerCoug]

Also, I'm inclined to say that StrangerCoug knows better than to attack my wredfar vote the way he did

circa

page 7.

I'm inclined to say that

YOU

know better than to confuse attacking someone with voting someone circa page 16. I did not attack your wredfar vote; there was no wredfar vote for me to attack. What you did was call wredfar scum, and my attack thereon is due to your lack of backing. That's why I am dissatisfied with you.

[StrangerCoug]

Packbat made it obvious why bobsnox should not be revived. This plus the fact that crypto still is not supporting his wredfar attack from earlier or being of much help tilts the balance in the former's favor, so crypto is now living player I see as most likely scum.

[StrangerCoug]

So we've got one for sure (bobsnox), likely two (crypto), scum.

Let's revive Bub Bidderskins.

[StrangerCoug]

kiwieagle vs. bobsnox is making me think that maybe it was a good idea to consider kiwieagle town after all. bobsnox is flailing at this point and the convo does not look like bussing to me.

kiwieagle or Bub Bidderskins for the revive please.

[StrangerCoug]

Can I have a top town read besides kiwieagle out of everybody and why?

[StrangerCoug]

So much with sparking discussion ><

Reiterating that crypto and bobsnox are scum and kiwieagle and Bub Bidderskins are town.

[StrangerCoug]

Go ahead.

[StrangerCoug]

You've just demonstrated that we've given you enough rope with which to hang yourself and you want more rope? What reality am I in?

[StrangerCoug]

I agree with Bub's revival. But I want to ask something to everyone.

@Everyone: besides Bub, who should we revive today?

My other strong town read of the players in limbo is kiwieagle.

[StrangerCoug]

Has he said anything that struck you as scum?

Bitching about RVS too much, then calling you scum, pushing it until Slaxx said something about you. Now your his big town read.

Define "bitching about RVS too much".

[StrangerCoug]

Because he's nitpicking/calling things scummy when they aren't.

What did I nitpick about/call scummy that is not scummy? You need to give us examples if you want us to consider your case on me credible.

Yeah, you guys to the work, just don't nail

me

Why the emphasis on the word "me"? This comes off to me as a scumslip.

I`m wondering SC: is your suspicion on crypto based on more than his FoS on the lurker?

It currently is. He is himself lurking and has clearly demonstrated that he is clueless about what is going on. Frankly, my dear, I don't think he gives a damn.

[StrangerCoug]

For the sake of fair voting, I am not going to participate in RVS.

The hell? This is not the RVS; right now Parama's discussing player meta to determine who should be revived. Nobody's vote is random in either the usually applied sense or the true sense.

Who gives a shit? This isn't even why Awesoma is scummy.

If I'm talking about it, then obviously I give a shit. Awesoma was never exempt from making meaningful contributions to the game. The RVS, as I saw it, did not exist in this game, so I saw the comment as non sequitir. What did he add to the information that others have put in? Nothing. All it is is fluff. See what you quoted below.

How do our votes lack "true backing"? I voted Parama because he can be a vicious scumhunter, while my self-vote is admittedly a bit WIFOM-based as I don't see why someone who's been crap as scum lately would offer him- or herself to be revived unless the person is town.

Here your just asking for a needed explanation, but I really didn't like the WIFOM bit. Also, who is the crappy scum referring to?

I was referring to myself as "crap as scum lately". I'm currently on a five-game losing streak as that alignment.

Here's a hint: When people are actually contributing, the RVS is over. There were already a few people that were major topics of discussion: Parama and I are the main candidates for revival, while Awesoma is being viewed as scummy. You chose to talk about none of us, so I don't plan on reviving you in the foreseeable future.

"MER MER MER. I'm SC and I think there's enough evidence to revive me this early in the game! Anyone who ignores me or Parama is scum. MERRR"

I was being as objective as I could. Nowhere in the quoted post do I say that I should be revived over anyone else except you and Awesoma. I know it seems like since he, Parama, and I were the main topics of discussion, you were prohibited to talk about anybody else, but if you made a meaningful post about someone other than the three of us I would not have condemned you per se. The point I was making was that you needed to post content.

[StrangerCoug]

SC's posts seemed good at first, but I realized what game he's playing - he's trying to appeal to Pack's good side because he knows Pack's town and Bub's scum, and Pack is the most likely of the three living players to vote Bub. Lots of subtle stuff, but I think he's been getting what he wants and he knows it; the problem is that his attempts are just a bit too transparent.

While I've been viewing Packbat more favorably than I did at the start of the day, I fail to see how I've been trying to get on his good side; if anything, he got on mine after bobsnox's claim as I don't see how he responded to it as bussing.

I'm for reviving ToastyToast. For Slaxx to be scum it would have made the best sense for him to revive another scumbuddy for the win. The game's still running, so I'm in agreement that ToastyToast townslipped.

UNVOTE: Bub Bidderskins
VOTE: ToastyToast

Just keep bobsnox and whichever of malpaspc and kiwieagle it happens to be in limbo and we've got it.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm for reviving ToastyToast. For Slaxx to be scum it would have made the best sense for him to revive another scumbuddy for the win. The game's still running, so I'm in agreement that ToastyToast townslipped.

UNVOTE: Bub Bidderskins
VOTE: ToastyToast

Just keep bobsnox and whichever of malpaspc and kiwieagle it happens to be in limbo and we've got it.

This might matter if you

had

a vote.

Oh, that's right.

scumteam of bobsnox and kiwieagle = 0% probability SC

Says the person who is clearly partial about his alignment.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm starting to regret my mentality of "revive everybody but bobsnox and kiwieagle/malpascp" (by the way, I've decided I still consider malpascp scummier than kiwieagle) and MrTrow is now somebody I'm hesitant to support reviving. It's hard to say exactly why I don't like him, but I'm looking real hard at the second-to-last sentence in #579.

[StrangerCoug]

I have now lost faith in kiwieagle. If everybody survives Night 2 then the scum trio will most likely be bobsnox-kiwieagle-malpascp.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC:

Im fine with everyone but bobsnox tbh.

kiwi why are you tunneling me? No one is going to revive you and no one is going to revive me. get over your hard-on for me

As long, as you/malpascp dont get revived im fine not getting revived.

Malp: Maybe.
bobsnox: hell no.

You really aren't trying anymore are you?

Are you sure you understand my post correctly? I've stated that, if there are no Night 2 deaths, then my three picks for scum are bobsnox, kiwieagle, and malpascp. Your response supports my stance on kiwieagle and denies that bobsnox is scummy.

I have now lost faith in kiwieagle. If everybody survives Night 2 then the scum trio will most likely be bobsnox-kiwieagle-malpascp.

you are supposing kiwi and I are faking this even after he said as long as I stay in limbo, he's fine staying in limbo? and after I told him to get used to not being revived because we're both staying in limbo. I feel like you're a better player than that.

I expected a weak case like that from obvscum

[StrangerCoug]

And that's all you've got? You're not even giving me a "welcome to hell" greeting?

[StrangerCoug]

Are you sure you understand my post correctly? I've stated that, if there are no Night 2 deaths, then my three picks for scum are bobsnox, kiwieagle, and malpascp. Your response supports my stance on kiwieagle and denies that bobsnox is scummy.

I'm giving quotes from kiwi's posts that make a 3-person scumteam consisting of those three players impossible. Kiwi/malp could be scum together, tho,ugh I feel that's unlikely, malp/bobsnox could be scum together, but kiwi/bob isn't happening, and all three is out of the question.

Apparently the bobsnox/kiwieagle impossibility is unclear to me, and even after reread I'd have to apply WIFOM to get it to make any sense. Unless I have definitive proof otherwise I am considering the possibility. I am sorry.

Ignoring bobsnox.

[StrangerCoug]

God damn it, why are there so many attempts to discredit ToastyToast-town that I have to rethink the scum possibilites? I certainly think there's scum among them, but

ALL

of them scum? Even if I'm doing my math wrong and it's possible, it's still insane.

[StrangerCoug]

I mean, I realize the possibility for ToastyToast-Parama exists, but there's not a reason for me to believe either are scum.

[StrangerCoug]

That'd be

SO

helpful... Shame it's not me.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC: not a single one?
So you disagree with every single point in my case?

Pretty much. Talk to me about how it isn't a town slip.

[StrangerCoug]

However, an impenetrable aura surrounds

StrangerCoug

today. He is ineligible to be voted for today.

Damn it.

5 living town players, 7 players in limbo - even if there's only two scum, that'll be 5 of 10 town players alive, which is half the total pro-town players. And if there's 3 scum, then it's 5 players of out 9, which is over half. Woopity wop let's win this game today.

This is the good news, though.

The people against the ToastyToast revival now look even worse. Again, they're not all scum, but we're best off not touching this group if we want to secure a win today.

I still support Bub Bidderskins, but Pomegranate's actions toward the end of yesterday make her a good revival target in my eyes.

[StrangerCoug]

C'mon... c'mon... this is going where we want... c'mon...

[StrangerCoug]

(Or, to put it more explicitly: StrangerCoug is either town and enthusiastic about town being close to victory or scum and must be ignored completely.)

One of those two is right

If the people alive at the moment are worried about me being connected to Bub Bidderskins, that's fine; since we're on good standing at the moment my revival ineligibility is only a small dent in things. An annoying dent from my point of view, but a small dent. The connection seems circumstantial to me, but I have viewed Parama and ToastyToast as the same alignment, most likely town, since the latter's slip and we now know how that worked out—very well.

EBWOP: That first line is at Packbat's post before Kiwi's crap.

Yeah. I would like to know what kiwieagle is smoking. The thing that comes first to mind is above, but it's been established that I couldn't care less about the anti-ToastyToast group.

C'mon... c'mon... this is going where we want... c'mon...

Why would town say this?


They are REVIVING Pom and he SAYS THIS.

The answer is very simple. My top two are Bub Bidderskins and Pomegranate, but since people are worried about the possibility about me being scum with Bub Bidderskins, Pomegranate is the only person for whom I can get support.

Why don't you want Pomegranate revived?

[StrangerCoug]

Who do you think is scum (other than me choose 3, because if you choose me and I know im town then its just stupid)?

You cannot take yourself out of the equation and call me stupid if I don't take you out of the equation. That's called poisoning the well. Right now I'm trying to figure out the two anti-TT people most likely to be town, and you're not doing anything to make yourself look better. Of the people that weren't against the TT revival, I am the most wary of crypto but I can set him aside for now since we're likely to get a clue about his alignment if the game continues after today.

Answer my question about Pomegranate.

[StrangerCoug]

Scum's looking for the quickest way to throw this game, now is it?

[StrangerCoug]

I'm about to follow suit with Parama and mentally go "screw this". The way this game is going is clear. The end result of that way is clear. Scum is flailing because town only has to figure out one other town, maybe two to be safe. Call me when there's chocolate cake.

[StrangerCoug]

SC, kiwi's town.
Incredibly stupid blacklisted town, but still town.

I don't consider stupidity an excuse, but that's not going to matter. We're going to learn which one of us is right when ToastyToast comes in.

[StrangerCoug]

True, but he hasn't had a reliable activity level.

[StrangerCoug]

Internet froze up ><

Pomegranate's the most likely scum of the revived players. crypto got replaced, which implies he did not kill Parama and IceGuy is town. I believe in the townslip putting ToastyToast in the clear, while I still think that Packbat and bobsnox are of opposing alignments, with the former more likely to be town. I don't see a universe where bobsnox's claim makes a lot of sense.

I obviously disagree that the scumteam is Pomegranate/malpaspc/Bub Bidderskins (I see malpascp-scum, though), but in any event I have a lot of things to rethink. If Packbat is scum, then chances are the Night 2 kill was prevented somehow. (We already know why there wasn't a Night 1 kill.)

[StrangerCoug]

PreEDIT: why wasn't there a N1 kill?

The mod made it public knowledge that nobody can kill on Night 1.

[StrangerCoug]

Townie; nothing special.

[StrangerCoug]

Bub Bidderskins/malpascp/Pomegranate. Signed, sealed, and delivered.

Considering that I can now see how bobsnox can be town since it's one-shot (he has to be

VERY

careful, though), I'm good with this.

Let's roll.

[StrangerCoug]

proddodge

vote me I'm obvtown. look at all those VT claims <_<

*barfs*

[StrangerCoug]

I don't think I need to state the obvious.

Part of the reason why I've been pretty quiet is because I'm really not sure of who's the best person to revive at this point. Right now, since I'm pretty positive that Pomegranate is scum, I think the best thing for me to do is look at interactions with her.

[StrangerCoug]

3) Who do you all think is the most likely town out of malpascp, SC and trow?

The obvious (followed by MrTrow, so you have a useful answer).

Thinking about the claims implicates Packbat to me—his doesn't fit with the other power claims.

[StrangerCoug]

I think MrTrow has redeemed himself at this point.

[StrangerCoug]

And a "sleeper vig" sounds like a very strange concept. Though, on the other hand, it's strange that town seems to have absolutely no means to kill a living player.

To me, it seems like a poisoner or variant thereof, but somebody who has played a game with such a role needs to tell me if I'm wrong.

[StrangerCoug]

We don't know his role. There are reasons why town fakeclaims.

There aren't that many The first role that comes to mind as the real role of someone fakeclaiming is bomb, followed by cop depending on how you interpret Kokusho's gambit.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm obviously liking where this is going.

My two scumpicks are Packbat and malpascp at this point. I think bobsnox is telling the truth about his role but I still don't feel confident enough in him to have him revived.

[StrangerCoug]

Slow game is slow ><

Mod: Massprod please.

[StrangerCoug]

Thank you for reminding me of that sbemail where Strong Bad's computer gets infected by a virus, MrTrow. Could you repost what you meant to say?

[StrangerCoug]

*snaps fingers* Let's get moving. I have nothing new to add to the table.

[StrangerCoug]

I don't really like Packbat suggesting that bobsnox

MUST

be revived so he can make his shot, but then again, I find the latter townier than the former.

[StrangerCoug]

*grumble, grumble*

Fine. Since I believe bobsnox, we can have him revived.

[StrangerCoug]

I think we have this.

[StrangerCoug]

Damn it.

Oh, well, it was fun to play.