Mini 1190: Game over

[Captain Corporal]

I'll start using a computer now, if it makes you feel better, Sleepy =)

[SleepyKrew]

I don't like how you said you had notes, then you didn't have notes, and now your brain has notes.
*notes*

[Captain Corporal]

When I said I kept a few notes, I meant in my head. Nothing huge.
When I said I had no notes, I was responding to you "Show your notes" post.

I really don't understand how this discussion is getting us any closerto scum.

[xvart]

Panzer - you certainly haven't done much the last couple of pages to alleviate your connection to Hoppster upon his scum flip.

But if he flips town, does that make me more town and you more scum?

I was hoping Hoppster would have said something about this post but I see we are running out of time so I'll go ahead. First of all, this is a terrible question and reaks of inside information and future day bandwagon development. Regarding the actual question, how am I to know what the town will think of me and you upon Hoppster's flip? As with any day, I'll let then town judge me upon that flip and if Hoppster flipped (and flipped town) they will have to decide if scum would fight tooth and nail for the lynch of someone who flipped town.

I first started to get more concerned with my reads on you two being scum together here with your struck out version of my scumtell list but no real commentary on the rest of the list. It appeared to be a soft weak defense which confused me because I didn't see scum connecting themselves that obviously to a buddy especially after already being accused of being buddies, but it wasn't that substantial or concrete compared to Hoppster so I let it go. Then you later came and told me what I was saying about Hoppster was convoluted and nothing else other than your obvious defense of Hoppster regarding directing vig kills. This sort of commentary adds nothing because you clearly weren't even interested in what I was saying despite engaging in the conversation previously. I even asked you what was convoluted and since I was having strange feelings about your previous post I figured I would see how you reacted to being accused again of being scum with him.

You came back projecting on flips that hadn't occurred setting up a lynch on me and proving your towniness D2. The biggest point is even though you were pretending to be engaged in the Hoppster/xvart debate your only interest was the outcome tomorrow and not the outcome today.

I would be willing to bet that if sleepy flips that Xvart is his buddy.

You really are doing your best to tie down my lynch tomorrow based on whoever flips, aren't you?

I'm much more comfortable with a Panzer lynch today but I also recognize the likelihood of SleepyKrew being scum now that I've stepped back from the game and reread other areas.

SleepyKrew - consider this my intent to hammer so claim.

[Twistedspoon]

just thought I'd mention that it's 7 to hammer

[xvart]

Oh. I thought he was L-1.

VOTE: SleepyKrew

[Empking]

SK: Stop wasting your vote.

Also, you might as well claim.

[Twistedspoon]

Votecount1.17

Still a facts drought. bear with me

Sleepykrew(L-1) - Hoppster, Toro, PBuG, Sundy, Panzer, Xvart

Hiplop(4) - Empking, Vollkan, Sleepykrew, Thomith
Hoppster(2) - Hiplop, Thefool

Not Voting (1) - Captain Corporal


With 13 Alive it takes 7 to lynch, 6 to no lynch.
The deadline is 6th July GMT 08:00[/b][/size]

[/color]

[PJ.]

I said I'd be interested in seeing if was a metathing. I think he his scum independent of this.

[Empking]

Just checked something. When hip joined the game, Panzer was all:
"Meta sucks."
"You can't meta from one game."
"Meta is garbage."

Now let's look at his latest post... Hmm...
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Panzer

[vollkan]

My meta? Including when my ongoing games end, or currently?

Your town meta from all concluded (game finished, or you have flipped) games.

[vollkan]

I said I'd be interested in seeing if was a metathing. I think he his scum independent of this.

Is this the entirety of your response to 591?

[Thomith]

anyone else want SK to claim?

[vollkan]

Yeah, seeing as he is at L-1

[PJ.]

I said I'd be interested in seeing if was a metathing. I think he his scum independent of this.

Is this the entirety of your response to 591?

No, currently using my phone to post. explanation/case coming sometime today with a rebuttal to Xvart's crap.

[hiplop]

I can also confirm the whole meta thing. (See my first post: DOES NOT MATCH TOWN META). He's someone with a clear meta i think. I'd be willing to hammer, but not before he gets a chance to defend himself obviously.

[Sundy]

@Sundy: Time to start reading my posts. I said I'd be V/LA until now. IGMEOY.

Plz.

My problems with your lack of content far predate your V/LA starting on Friday, June 24th.

You acknowledged this yourself in a post on Wednesday:

I have been slacking off and not scumhunting. While I have been keeping a few notes on people, I haven't really been working.

So how about instead of you asking us all to say what we think of you, you start scum-hunting again and

then

we can give our opinions on you? Maybe you can start by saying whether you think that Panzer vs. SK is a better lynch, whether Hip or Hop is a better lynch, or whether you prefer someone else altogether?

[Sundy]

Just checked something. When hip joined the game, Panzer was all:
"Meta sucks."
"You can't meta from one game."
"Meta is garbage."

Now let's look at his latest post... Hmm...
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Panzer

General question for anyone who wants to answer it:

Does this REALLY NOT seem like a bus to anyone? I can't get over the idea that this would be a really bad move by SK if he and Panzer were scum-buddies. And that worries me.

[PJ.]

Just checked something. When hip joined the game, Panzer was all:
"Meta sucks."
"You can't meta from one game."
"Meta is garbage."

Now let's look at his latest post... Hmm...
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Panzer

General question for anyone who wants to answer it:

Does this REALLY NOT seem like a bus to anyone? I can't get over the idea that this would be a really bad move by SK if he and Panzer were scum-buddies. And that worries me.

Seems more like flailing scum trying to link himself to the most suspicious townie. If you're going out, you might as well take on with you. And as scum if you can derail your own wagon, probably a good thing to try.

@Vollkan/591: The meta tell is periphery, and did encourage me on to hop on the wagon, but he is scummy regardless of his meta. He has been fairly non-commital and cautious. Hasn't ever truly scumhunted in this game(which I would attribute to a handful of players in the game) and majority of his post are just meaning less one liners or questions clarifying kinda pointless things. If it also happens to be his meta, then that's something for me to keep in mind if i play more games with him in the future, but his actions are scummy on their own

Panzer - you certainly haven't done much the last couple of pages to alleviate your connection to Hoppster upon his scum flip.

But if he flips town, does that make me more town and you more scum?

I was hoping Hoppster would have said something about this post but I see we are running out of time so I'll go ahead.

1) First of all, this is a terrible question and reaks of inside information and future day bandwagon development. Regarding the actual question, how am I to know what the town will think of me and you upon Hoppster's flip? As with any day, I'll let then town judge me upon that flip and if Hoppster flipped (and flipped town) they will have to decide if scum would fight tooth and nail for the lynch of someone who flipped town.

I first started to get more concerned with my reads on you two being scum together here with your struck out version of my scumtell list but no real commentary on the rest of the list. It appeared to be a soft weak defense which confused me because I didn't see scum connecting themselves that obviously to a buddy especially after already being accused of being buddies, but it wasn't that substantial or concrete compared to Hoppster so I let it go.

2)Then you later came and told me what I was saying about Hoppster was convoluted and nothing else other than your obvious defense of Hoppster regarding directing vig kills. This sort of commentary adds nothing because you clearly weren't even interested in what I was saying despite engaging in the conversation previously. I even asked you what was convoluted and since I was having strange feelings about your previous post I figured I would see how you reacted to being accused again of being scum with him

.

(Pertains to 1)You came back projecting on flips that hadn't occurred setting up a lynch on me and proving your towniness D2. The biggest point is even though you were pretending to be engaged in the Hoppster/xvart debate your only interest was the outcome tomorrow and not the outcome today

.

I would be willing to bet that if sleepy flips that Xvart is his buddy.

3)You really are doing your best to tie down my lynch tomorrow based on whoever flips, aren't you?

I'm much more comfortable with a Panzer lynch today but I also recognize the likelihood of SleepyKrew being scum now that I've stepped back from the game and reread other areas.

1) Now I understand why hoppster was frustrated with you. You realize that question was in response to you calling me Hoppster's buddy, right? Wouldn't that count as "projecting on flips that hadn't occurred setting up a lynch(in the future)"? I think it most certainly does, and you are far more guilty of it then I am, considering your entire case on me is based on Hoppster being scum(not confirmed) and crap logic. I was simply asking you based on you calling me Hoppsters buddy, if he flipped town, if you would see me as a town defending/in agreement with another townie. This clearly isn't the case since you have composed this whole case casting a fairly large net of suspicion.

2)I was saying that single post, with all the different coloured footnotes was convulted and I couldn't follow it, not the arguement. And I am absolutely for directing the probable lying SK/Scum, was defending Hoppster because I shared the same view he did, and didn't find it scummy. As far as the other striken out stuff, I had nothing to say to the non-striken stuff because i agreed with you, which i explicitely stated in following post.

3) This smells like a bus to you. You've essentially hopped on with out any reasona and just simply said, "I reread some areas" What did you reread? What was so strong that it made you agree with your main target for the entirity of your prescence in the game?

FoS:Xvart

For, blatantly wagoning Sleepy without reason, spouting some serious fail logic against both me and Hoppster, and generally seemimg like scum trying to make big deals out of nothing.

And I will repeat my statement, Seems like xvart is bussing Sleepy.

[PJ.]

Also, my blatant defense of Hoppster directing the vig(that you linked), was just me clairfying what he meant for you. I have supported it on other occasions but that post doesn't mean what you're saying it means.

[TBuG]

Now, I'd like everyone's opinion of me.

Don't have one.

FoS: Sundy

for changing his mind on three different people based on my post; that being said, I agree that I see potential SK/Panzer bussing.

I may be going out on a limb here, but I could buy a SK/Panzer/xvart scumgroup. The past two pages could be read as Panzer and xvart realizing, hoshit, our scumbuddy is busted, and hauling ass to try and distance even more. Additionally, if xvart had succeeded in his disgusting case on Hoppster and he flipped town as I assume he would have, that would have been a wonderful way for xvart to say oh nvm Panzer you aren't really that scummy.

Either way, assuming SK flips scum because he is, xvart is almost certainly scum with him and there's a decent chance Panzer is, too.

[xvart]

Seems more like flailing scum trying to link himself to the most suspicious townie. If you're going out, you might as well take on with you. And as scum if you can derail your own wagon, probably a good thing to try.

Or scum trying to buy town cred if I went full monty on you lobbying for votes towards your lynch.

1) Now I understand why hoppster was frustrated with you. You realize that question was in response to you calling me Hoppster's buddy, right? Wouldn't that count as "projecting on flips that hadn't occurred setting up a lynch(in the future)"? I think it most certainly does, and you are far more guilty of it then I am, considering your entire case on me is based on Hoppster being scum(not confirmed) and crap logic. I was simply asking you based on you calling me Hoppsters buddy, if he flipped town, if you would see me as a town defending/in agreement with another townie. This clearly isn't the case since you have composed this whole case casting a fairly large net of suspicion.

The difference between the two (me calling scum based on a scum lynch versus you calling someone scum based on a town flip) is that yours has the worst possible result: two dead townies. Mine has, at worst, the death of one townie. Calling someone scum based on a town flip is exponentially more scummy for that very reason and the fact that it has more inside information than mine (unless I am scum with both of the two I proposed as being scum together).

In the suggestion of two people being scum together (one explicitly because the other flips scum) the best case scenario is we get two dead scum. In the worst case scenario we get one dead townie. In your scenario the best case scenario will yield you one dead townie and one scum while the worst case scenario yields two dead townies. In the event that Hoppster did flip town what would we have lost? One town member and the secondary case I had on you. That's why I wasn't big on pushing you in addition to Hoppster since the only read I had on you at the time was in relationship to him, so I was content to just throw the occasional thing out to you to see how you would respond.

And LOL at the wide net of suspicion comment. If anyone in this game is least guilty of casting wide nets I would say it is me.

2)I was saying that single post, with all the different coloured footnotes was convulted and I couldn't follow it, not the arguement. And I am absolutely for directing the probable lying SK/Scum, was defending Hoppster because I shared the same view he did, and didn't find it scummy. As far as the other striken out stuff, I had nothing to say to the non-striken stuff because i agreed with you, which i explicitely stated in following post.

Just so the record shows you agreed with over half my case on Hoppster.

3) This smells like a bus to you. You've essentially hopped on with out any reasona and just simply said, "I reread some areas" What did you reread? What was so strong that it made you agree with your main target for the entirity of your prescence in the game?

I basically reread the entire game, the cases on SleepyKrew (including Hoppsters). I don't think it will come as a shock to anyone but I was hard core tunneled and as I said needed to step back. Like I said, I would much rather lynch you today but I see the merit of the SleepyKrew case that others have outlined.

Also, my blatant defense of Hoppster directing the vig(that you linked), was just me clairfying what he meant for you. I have supported it on other occasions but that post doesn't mean what you're saying it means.

Why were you clarifying what Hoppster meant to say?

[vollkan]

@Vollkan/591: The meta tell is periphery, and did encourage me on to hop on the wagon, but he is scummy regardless of his meta. He has been fairly non-commital and cautious. Hasn't ever truly scumhunted in this game(which I would attribute to a handful of players in the game) and majority of his post are just meaning less one liners or questions clarifying kinda pointless things. If it also happens to be his meta, then that's something for me to keep in mind if i play more games with him in the future, but his actions are scummy on their own

But it was the immediate trigger for your vote:

I also just recent finished a game with him, He seemed to tunnel a lot harder. He essentially stayed on target the whole game. I didn't notice this but now that everyone is pointing it out, I want back and checked. I'd be willing to see if this is a meta trait. Vote:SleepyKrew

You're seriously telling me that the meta is only peripheral?

[PJ.]

Yes, and I admitted it was the trigger.

The only way I can attempt to explain is through poker. If me and another player are playing heads up, and I have every right to think that I have the better hand and then someone tells me that there is a good chance that he could be a guy who bluffs a lot, I'm gonna call because it will give me information I can use in the future.

I have every reason to think his is scum, but I'm curious to see if this is a meta tell, because it could help me in the future and in the long run, it will make him a better player.

[Sundy]

FoS: Sundy

for changing his mind on three different people based on my post; that being said, I agree that I see potential SK/Panzer bussing.

My post already gave you a good deal of credit, no need to assign yourself even more. I found your analysis reinforced an interpretation of the gameplay that I had previously espoused, it's not like you converted me to a different religion. And when you change your mind on one player, it makes perfect sense to see other players in a new light, as it changes the way you see a host of interactions.