Mini 1193: Hacker's Panic mafia. (Game Over)

[don_johnson]

No. im town. The implication there was that xvart might be a scum neighbor. His accusation came out of nowhere, so id like him to expand.

[xvart]

It is true. We are neighbors. I've been racking my brain for the life of me about our moderator and his opinions on neighbors since we were in a game together a while back and there were two town neighbors but Humble didn't say anything definitive about neighbors and alignments other than alignments are unknown. don did not talk in the neighbor QT at all pre game.

don didn't say anything pre game in the neighbor QT which I thought was... not damning evidence of him being scum but not scoring any town points, and I really started suspecting him as scum neighbor on his beck wagon support but no vote, when I tied him to Beck. I almost came out right there and claimed neighbor since don hadn't done anything at all except that scummy post but I thought better of it. Last night, don was absent until over halfway through night. My first post of the night was asking him who he thought was scum because he had provided no reads at all D1. I was hoping to draw out something and see what he did at the beginning of the next day and then claim what I knew if it contradicted what he said during the night. I then sent a "you there?" type post and then followed up with more friendly banter post in case he was scum and relayed his information to his team and I got NKed without claiming him as my neighbor. My post was basically how I thought his crumb, although obvious, was clever and asked him if he was worried about scum picking up on it. On D1 I was thinking it was obvious and was curious why he wasn't so concerned with scum picking up on it.

He finally posted in the neighbor QT with how scum might use that knowledge to their benefit (??) but he believe it to be better play for neighbors to be more public than private (paraphrased). He also said he wasn't reading carefully during D1 so he was going to reread if he survived the night. This struck me as really odd since I saw him as no threat to being a NK. I asked him if he thought he was likely to be killed during the night. He responded that he hoped not, then said there had to be scum in the final few people on the wagon.

Now that I had a weak set of suspects from him I was waiting to see who he voted for at the start of D2. He came out and immediately voted the hammerer for a very specific reason; so what I don't understand is why he didn't tell me that last night.

The other thing that concerns me is that he so quickly claimed neighbor today when I put him in a very loose scum group pairing and he didn't do the same yesterday when I did the same thing. The only thing I can see is that it is possible he knew that Beck wasn't scum so wasn't worried about that claim going through but maybe it struck a chord with my pairing and someone (or both) of his team being mentioned.

I have never played with don (to my recollection) but from this game I don't see him as a player who would place a breadcrumb like he did so I'm guessing, if he is scum, he was prompted to do so in the scum QT pre-game.

I didn't but out with this information because a lot of it is circumstantial and I didn't want to prematurely claim and was hoping I could draw out some more in subsequent nights.

don - can you show a game where you have breadcrumbed your role before? And weren't you V/LA until the 27th?

[bobsnox]

Coolskins - vote explanation was in the part addressed to Haschel. It was a response regarding my thoughts on celeboki's hammer. Misrep sucks.

[xvart]

Also, why is someone so quick to breadcrumb neighbor when he didn't even use the neighbor QT?

[CooLskins]

No. im town. The implication there was that xvart might be a scum neighbor. His accusation came out of nowhere, so id like him to expand.

^link me to a pro-town post that you have made in this game. Also, one vote = claim? Explain that. Ever thought about Both you and xvart being town? Or maybe you are scum and he is town. That seems more likely.

[don_johnson]

V/la does not mean absent. I hav been posting from my phone. Xvarts explanation is a bit protown, and yes, town neighbors thoroughly crossed my mind. If I was scum, breadcrumbing would be virtual suicide as an xvart ttown flip would incriminate me more than exonerate me. I will explain the absence when I hav more time and I also need to pm the mod before I divulge so that I avoid modkill. More later, but I thank my neighbor for the response. Also, I dont recall you tieing me to beck on day 1. That day went too fast imo. Also, saying "theres scum on the end of that wagon" and then voting the hammer is consistent play, so not sure about that part either. But ill post more when im at home late tonight or tomorrow.

[CooLskins]

Link me to a pro-town post. Or shall we assume that you haven't made one?

[don_johnson]

All of my posts are "pro-town", depending on your definition. I have barely participated in this game so far. we just passed 200 posts. Thats not very long, especially to already be in day 2. Are you going to let me respond to xvart when I can, or are you going to continue to bash me while im posting from my phone?

[bobsnox]

Celebloki, deselby, don johnson - good lynches today.

[deselby]

I don't like deselby's reaction to my Coolskins vote

why not?

[bobsnox]

Very very jumpy. Smacked of paranoia. Barely concealed OMGUS. Weak target for weak reasons.

Etc

[bobsnox]

It was also ridiculously dismissive and bordered on a strawman with your irrelevant questions.

The QT part in particular struck me as garbage.

Are you going to answer who your other suspects are?

[deselby]

Des' reaction found here:

Coolskins said something about not wanting to play with newbies. Deselby claimed to be a newbie. Coolskins said I'm looking forward to playing with you. I would quote but it's hard with the phone. Seems to me like Coolskins and deselby had time to get acquainted in scumchat before the game.

Today's challenge: can anyone provide an accusation based on less evidence than this? You have provided no evidence whatsoever against either of us, other than the laughable claim quoted above, and the fact that parama said coolskins is scum. Do you think I am not a newbie? Why? Also, if we chatted pre game, why would we repeat it here?

In fact there is a more of a link between you and parama, see post 76 & 176. I point this out not because it means anyhting, but it just shows how utterly baseless your accusation is.

Town aim to lynch on evidence, scum just aim to lynch. Unless you have something else to add which makes sense:

vote bobsnox

Firs thing that strikes me is how quick he is to react to it. Second thing that strikes me is that he doesn't have a vote on him. He seems to be afraid of a possible lynch on him, and that explains his reactionary play. Interesting that he does not make much comment about the beck wagon at all in both days...

@del, reads?

First thing - why is the speed of my reply important? For the record, my post was 100mins after bobsnox's.
Second- having a vote on me or not is irrelevant here. I was reacting to the lack of reason by bobsnox.
Third - Much of the beck wagon, including the claim and hammer happened while I was offline. My thoughts: Beck was scummy, particularly his play post claim. But a hammer so early generally is not good for town. Was there scum on the wagon? Good chance, but he appeared so scummy i think everyone had some suspicion.

Anyway, here are my reads:



bobsnox, scummy for reasons I stated when I voted.

celebloki, suspicious cos of early hammer, otherwise has not said much.

coolskins, leaning town, most of his reasoning seems sound to me.

donjohnson/xvart: thought xvart was suspect earlier as he had only really hopped on the beck wagon and lurked. His claim post however seemed townish, it was very detailed and makes good points. If xvart is town and his post is accurate, then donjohnson behaved strangley. I think there is a good chance one of thm is scum and one town, the scum more likely don.

haschel: hasn't contributed much. Said he has "plenty to say", but hasn't said it yet. Done little to look town so far.

hrezs: pretty much lurked completely, not townish play obvioulsy

kondi: sum total of contribution: 1) got on beck wagon 2)lurked. Suspect.

parama: struggling to get a read tbh. Seems very confident, and has done a couple of strange things (vote on hrezs for eg.). Is this just his style? He seems to have done some scumhunting though. Don't know what to make of him.

zodiark; need to hear more, far too little content to be considered town.

[deselby]

Very very jumpy. Smacked of paranoia. Barely concealed OMGUS. Weak target for weak reasons.

Etc

I attacked you simply because you used ludicrous "evidence" for an assertion.

"weak reasons"?! Do you really think your reason was stronger?

[deselby]

It was also ridiculously dismissive and bordered on a strawman with your irrelevant questions.

The QT part in particular struck me as garbage.

Are you going to answer who your other suspects are?

Dismissive? Should it not have been?

My questions were an attempt to find out what you were thinking, if anything. i still can't say that I know.

[bobsnox]

So what you're telling me is you dismissed something you didn't understand? That's all that can be inferred from your posts at this point. That might as well be a scum confession.

Very very jumpy. Smacked of paranoia. Barely concealed OMGUS. Weak target for weak reasons.

Etc

I attacked you simply because you used ludicrous "evidence" for an assertion.

"weak reasons"?! Do you really think your reason was stronger?

Yes, all you have done is dismiss me WITHOUT (apparently) understanding my point. There's a huge difference between not seeing reasoning in my posts (which is clearly there) and thinking that reasoning is weak. You can't seem to take a stance on which it is. That's incredibly weak reasoning on your part to not only vote me but have me as your number one suspect at this point.

UNVOTE: Celebloki
VOTE: deselby

You have condemned yourself:

Town aim to lynch on evidence, scum just aim to lynch.

[deselby]

So what you're telling me is you dismissed something you didn't understand? That's all that can be inferred from your posts at this point. That might as well be a scum confession.

Very very jumpy. Smacked of paranoia. Barely concealed OMGUS. Weak target for weak reasons.

Etc

I attacked you simply because you used ludicrous "evidence" for an assertion.

"weak reasons"?! Do you really think your reason was stronger?

Yes, all you have done is dismiss me WITHOUT (apparently) understanding my point. There's a huge difference between not seeing reasoning in my posts (which is clearly there) and thinking that reasoning is weak. You can't seem to take a stance on which it is. That's incredibly weak reasoning on your part to not only vote me but have me as your number one suspect at this point.

UNVOTE: Celebloki
VOTE: deselby

You have condemned yourself:

Town aim to lynch on evidence, scum just aim to lynch.

Ok, this is a bit on an OMGUS-a-thon, so I will try to state my case in a nutshell:

You misrepresent me in the above post. My reasoning can be seen from the post in which I voted you. I voted you because you made an accusation of a scum team based on nothing more than a pregame greeting. Farcically weak IMO. I said my vote would stand unless you provided more or better reasoning. You did not. The only thing it seems I don't understand is why you still maintain there is something in your original claim. If this remains the case, I will consider your accusation scummy. My vote will change if this situation changes or someone else becomes scummier.

[bobsnox]

There IS something in my original argument and I am more sure of it because of how you reacted.

[deselby]

Coolskins said something about not wanting to play with newbies. Deselby claimed to be a newbie. Coolskins said I'm looking forward to playing with you. I would quote but it's hard with the phone. Seems to me like Coolskins and deselby had time to get acquainted in scumchat before the game.

This is your orignial claim. Pretty pitiful "something".

[bobsnox]

I can't believe you took the trouble to quote that only to dismiss it again. How about trying something different for a change?

[deselby]

I can't believe you took the trouble to quote that only to dismiss it again. How about trying something different for a change?

OK, decent call. I am happy that my post 2 posts ago contains what I have to say, and I stand by it. I will leave it at that for now unless/until you (or anyone else) have anything else to say about it.


There are a lot of players who have posted very little so far, who need to contribute.

[bobsnox]

Were you ever going to deny that you and Coolskins had a pre-game talk in the scumchat or are you just going to keep implying that it's a ludicrous idea?

PREGAME SCUMCHAT? THAT'S... THAT'S RIDICULOUS! BOBSNOX IS SCUM FOR SUGGESTING SUCH A NOTION.

That's about all you've said so far yet you seem content to leave it at that. What's also weird is that you haven't even brought up my day one behavior. Was I scummy then? I pushed pretty hard for the Beck lynch, but all you're focusing on is my suspicions on you. Very very narrow tunneling on me and very little analysis in other directions. Your reads are fairly thin. Some of them are downright bad (e.g., Coolskins, Haschel, Parama, zodiark). You jumped all over me for

FoSing you

yet you're wary of calling Parama scum with his weird hrezs vote. I don't think he's scum but I think you're scum avoiding him and looking for a good mislynch (me).

I would like others to post as well, but I would like you to do some better posting yourself.

[deselby]

Fine. I hereby swear that I had never communicated in any way whatsoever with coolskins prior to this game thread.
You are misrepresenting me again. This is the second time, the first rather crafty (215) the second more blatant. I have never implied that the possibilty of my involvement in pregame scumchat is "ludicrous" or "ridiculous". What I objected to is the mega-scant evidence you used to reach this conclusion. Didn't think I would have to explain that. Any third party thoughts on the misrep's?
I was a little wary of my tunneling in fact, hence post 220. I didn't want our debate to continue in circles while ignoring everyone else.
As for my "bad" reads, well, your opinion, feel free to give your own reads where applicable.

One question, what makes you a good mislynch?

[deselby]

Shit bob, last 15 posts and 12 hours or so were all ours. I am going to bed, maybe we should let some other guys play?

[CooLskins]

All of my posts are "pro-town", depending on your definition. I have barely participated in this game so far. we just passed 200 posts. Thats not very long, especially to already be in day 2. Are you going to let me respond to xvart when I can, or are you going to continue to bash me while im posting from my phone?

Okay, lets try it with different wording. Link me to a post where you scumhunt.