Mini 1166: Town Hall Mafia (GAME OVER)

[EmpTyger]

iama:
You set the order and go last?

[iamausername]

iama:
You set the order and go last?

If everyone else is happy with this, then

ThAd -> Rhinox -> Emp -> me.

[ThAdmiral]

Vanilla town.

Next up rhinox.

[Rhinox]

also vanilla

next

[EmpTyger]

Vanilla.

[iamausername]

And one more vanilla. Kinda figured it would go like that.

Do you think there's any worth in a no lynch at this stage?

[ThAdmiral]

I actually wouldn't mind either way. I know the accepted procedure is to no-lynch in this situation but in 3 man lylo one town votes wrong it's all over. With 4 man lylo 2 town have to vote wrong.

[Rhinox]

I actually wouldn't mind either way. I know the accepted procedure is to no-lynch in this situation but in 3 man lylo one town votes wrong it's all over. With 4 man lylo 2 town have to vote wrong.

eh, its less about how many wrong votes it takes, and more about whether the nk will narrow down the suspect pool IMO. I don't think anyone is clear-cut obvtown so IMO the nk would help me make a better lynch choice.

[EmpTyger]

I think there will be more value in an extra protown voice than in a WIFOM opportunity.

iama:
At end of D2 you were thinking ThAd. Has this changed?

ThAd:
At end of D2 you were thinking Rhinox. Has this changed?

Rhinox:
At end of D2 you were thinking me or ThAd. (Really, you weren't thinking anything, but I'll be generous with [350]).
What changed about iama?

[Rhinox]

Rhinox:
At end of D2 you were thinking me or ThAd. (Really, you weren't thinking anything, but I'll be generous with [350]).
What changed about iama?

nothing changed.

[ThAdmiral]

@ emp: Well other than the fact that I am paranoid it might be you or iama if I was going to vote now it would be rhinox as him being scum makes more sense.

[iamausername]

iama:
At end of D2 you were thinking ThAd. Has this changed?

No, but I'm intending to reread everything probably tomorrow, and I'll try to keep an open mind. So, we'll see.

[ThAdmiral]

Vote: no lynch

It is technically the most logical move after all.

[EmpTyger]

ThAd:
The most logical thing to do would be to lynch Rhinox, who suddenly has decided that iama could be mafia, but won't explain how, or even why he's now saying that.
Even though the other 3 of us have each been narrowing our suspects lists down to our top suspect, he's widening it to everyone, without providing any reasons, any arguments, any analysis for why he's doing that. Just a denial to defend himself, without any effort to try to narrow that suspect list. (Just like all of D2.)

That's not a protown with no margin of error left. That's an antitown stalling because he's not yet sure which mislynch to go for.

I'm giving iama time for his reread.

[ThAdmiral]

unvote

Yeah, I mainly wanted to breathe some life in to this game because it seemed to have stalled. I do probably feel more comfortable no-lynching at this stage though.

I haven't done a full in-depth read-through or anything but I have looked back at the game. Iama is so town because of day 1, emp is town because of a bunch of posts he made early day 2, the only point in Rhinox's favor is the one iama pointed out about c-worl dying instead of himself but that is based on a fairly big assumption imo (i.e. that rhinox viewed the game-state the same way iama did).

Currently I have it as:

Scum to town

Rhinox
-
-
-
-
Emp
-
-
Iama

[Rhinox]

The most logical thing to do would be to lynch Rhinox, who suddenly has decided that iama could be mafia, but won't explain how, or even why he's now saying that.

I knew if I dangled the carrot in your face you couldn't resist misrepping me.

I still think you or ThAd is the last scum, and nothing I said implies otherwise. I said earlier:

I don't think anyone is clear-cut obvtown so IMO the nk would help me make a better lynch choice.

Which meant that Just because I think the scum is either you or ThAd, that doesn't mean I think iama is the obv-nk tonight. If you or ThAd were the nk, then I'd feel pretty confident about lynching whichever of you survived. I purposefully didn't elaborate on that more in #382 to try to keep as much WIFOM out of the equation as possible. After #383, I knew exactly what accusation you were going to try to spin.

The point is, nothing I've said implies I no longer think iama is least likely to be scum, only that he's not the obvious nk tonight.


This isn't the first time this game you've misrepped a situation to paint me as scum, but thats not why I think you're the last scum. The reason you're scum is because when I've pointed out you're misinterpretting/misrepping a situation in the past, you just ignore what I have to say about it and continue insisting I'm scum based on your misrepresentation. You don't seem interested in actually making sure you're interpretting a situation correctly. Before I was thinking it was maybe confirmation bias, but now it just looks like you're scum trying to get me mislynched no matter how incorrect the arguement as long as its convincing.

[iamausername]

hmm.

Rhinox, why would ThAd kill Emp after a no lynch? Why would Emp kill ThAd?

[EmpTyger]

iama:
(Do you even need me to respond to this?)

His "dangling the carrot" was him behaving suspiciously.  And yeah I'm going to bite into that.  Hard.

His "nothing I've said implies I no longer think iama is least likely to be scum, only that he's not the obvious nk tonight" is false:

I don't think anyone is clear-cut obvtown

so IMO the nk would help me make a better lynch choice.

His "not seeming interested in actually making sure I'm interpreting a situation correctly" is false (in fact, the one who wasn't interested in clarification is Rhinox):

Rhinox:
At end of D2 you were thinking me or ThAd. (Really you weren't thinking anything, but I'll be generous with [350]).
What changed about iama?

And despite his after-the-fact explanation that this was purportedly a clever bit of trap-laying- it doesn't fit with the rest of his behavior today.

[ThAdmiral]

You know actually I don't think there is any point to no-lynching.

I see three things happening over night if we no lynch:

1. Iama is town, is the obvious night-kill.
2. Iama is scum, kills someone else - still probably wouldn't be lynched tomorrow so he'd win anyway.
3. Scum no-kills - we are in exactly the same situation.

A no-lynch only really helps us if Iama is scum, but a) that is unlikely and I don't think it is the case, and b) he will probably win anyway if he is (and would frankly deserve to).


Thoughts?

[iamausername]

hmm.

Rhinox, why would ThAd kill Emp after a no lynch? Why would Emp kill ThAd?

Or I guess "why would either of them kill you?" if you prefer.

[Rhinox]

hmm.

Rhinox, why would ThAd kill Emp after a no lynch? Why would Emp kill ThAd?

Or I guess "why would either of them kill you?" if you prefer.

Well I've definitely seen weirder scum kills from scum trying to cause confusion or WIFOM. I could spout out a few guesses at specific reasons but that wouldn't really help very much. Its all pretty moot at this point anyways since bringing attention to the ramifications of a hypothetical nk choice after a no lynch pretty much means that we won't get any useful info out of the nk anyways. So I'm with ThAd we might as well just lynch today.


@emp: still trying to misrep me. I've already explained myself I'm not going to do it again. Other than to clarify that my "nothing changed" comment with the lack of elaboration was the dangling the carrot I was referring to because I knew what you were going to try to accuse me of after you asked me what changed regarding iam. It wasn't a "trap" in the manner you're referring to, more of me just sitting back letting you stick your foot in your mouth.

do me a favor and go through my posts and point out where I ever called iam town. Now, also explain how me saying essentially "iam is not obv-town" today in any way means I think he's more likely to be scum than you or thAd, or that my read on iam at all changed. Why you're at it, why don't you go ahead and summarize everything you've seen that makes me scum, I'd love to draw attention to the rest of your misreps again.

[ThAdmiral]

While he's doing that you should summarize everything you've said about emp being scum, including all his alleged misreps.

You must know I also want to lynch you today, but I promise to keep an open mind and read your case.

[Rhinox]

Yeah, I realize that. I'll throw a post together about emp later tonight. Just to be upfront, I don't have anything to post against emp except for his attacks against me. I know thats usually not a very convincing case, but its the nature of his attacks - he posts something that doesn't make sense / is a misrep, I explain why its a misrep, and then he ignores it until the next misrep, yet some how after all that I'm still scum for no valid reason that he is bothering to defend. I'll show examples when I make my post later.

[EmpTyger]

iama:
Really, do you still need me to respond to this?


Rhinox:
At end of D2 you were vaguely saying ThAd or me.
At the start of D3 you were vaguely saying anyone (ThAd or me or iama).
When I directly asked, you won't clarify.
When iama directly asked, you get evasive and try to disavow the entire thing.    
I stand by my

mis

representation of your actions.

I also stand by my

mis

representation of your play as OMGUSy games which seem designed to let you weasel out of accusations on technicalities, rather than an attempt to clear up some alleged uncertainty you claim you have about who the last mafia is.

do me a favor and go through my posts and point out where I ever called iam town. Now, also explain how me saying essentially "iam is not obv-town" today in any way means I think he's more likely to be scum than you or thAd, or that my read on iam at all changed. Why you're at it, why don't you go ahead and summarize everything you've seen that makes me scum, I'd love to draw attention to the rest of your misreps again.

Are you for real?  Or else what...?
You'll vote me?
You'll accuse me of being mafia?
You'll offer no explanation for how I allegedly misrepresented you today?
You'll evade iama's questions which are poking holes into your entire premise, in lieu of tossing out unsupported  accusations against me?

You want to focus attention to these alleged misreps (because I suppose that's the best defense you can muster for your behavior)?  *You* do it.
I don't do favors for mafia. 
I try to *lynch* them.

(I especially don't do them the favor of writing their post-by-post analyses while I'm on an iPhone.  Good grief.)

[Rhinox]

At the start of D3 you were vaguely saying anyone (ThAd or me or iama).

That is the misrep, and I have clarified and explained, and you're still insisting that I said or implied something I didn't.

I also like how you keep saying things like: "Really, do you still need me to respond to this?" - as if everything I say is so scummy it should be obvious to everyone why I'm scum. How bout you actually try to put an argument together about why I'm scum that involves anything besides lies and misreps, rather than spouting rhetoric like this.

I also stand by my misrepresentation of your play as OMGUSy games which seem designed to let you weasel out of accusations on technicalities,

where, exactly, do I try to weasel out of accusations on technicalities? quotes, please, or it didn't happen.


@ThAd: I fell asleep last night, so I'll get to that post I promised today.