Open 318: By Nomination Only (Game Over)

[Hoopla]

Who is individually scummiest (often when lists are organised like this, the top 2/3 never work together)? Who is the scumteam? Or who I'd most like to lynch? They all produce different answers. So, I'll let you pick which one you want me to answer before you accuse me of twisting the question.

- Amrun, forest_air, Papa Zito, yourself are the most suspicious in my mind.

- I like Nobody Special with yourself. I like Zito and forest_air with a lot of pairings. Amrun seems like she has more people she's probably not scum with, which is why I'm not voting her.

- At the moment, I'd like to lynch Zito or forest_air. It'd take convincing, but I'd also be open to lynching you. Possibly Nobody Special if more people start looking town.

[Hoopla]

Sorry if my new posts have been light on logic. My mother has come to visit me. I haven't seen her in a year. We went to the capital.

[Equinox]

Vote Count 1.09

Rory the Roman (3) - VitaminR, Fenchurch, zMuffinMan
Nobody Special (2) - forest_air, Papa Zito
Papa Zito (2) - Hoopla, Amrun
zMuffinMan (1) - Rory the Roman
VitaminR (1) - Copper
forest_air (1) - Twistedspoon

Not Voting (1) - Nobody Special

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

The deadline is Wednesday, July 8, 2011, at 10:28 AM EDT (UTC-4).

[Twistedspoon]

- At the moment, I'd like to lynch Zito or forest_air. It'd take convincing, but I'd also be open to lynching you. Possibly Nobody Special if more people start looking town.

forest air

trust me, this is nothing like her town play

[zMuffinMan]

A couple of times you've posed questions/thoughts about certain aspects of my play which look like explanations of why you think I'm scummy. Whenever I try to address them, you recoil and say that isn't the reason for your suspicion. So, if your suspicion is still entirely gut-based, then, no you're not cherry-picking as you aren't attempting to make a case against me. If you are presenting opinions on things that make me scummy, then you ought to say those thoughts have merit, as opposed to not being a reason for your suspicion. Is your suspicion of me still just gut?

I don't like having to do this, but I'm going to dig back through the steaming pile of scum that is your ISO.

So here you state that 'several people' are falsely accusing you of being scummy because you called Fenchurch town. That is the long and short of this post, and that is essentially what you say NS and I were doing. However, neither NS or I called you scummy even once for your defense of Fenchurch. NS and I were responding to Twisted's questions about the likelihood of Fenchurch being town if you're scum. It wasn't "you're scummy because you did it", it was "it still makes sense if you're scum". I can't explain this any better, but essentially your #176 was drivel that was completely irrelevant. And you call it debunking my suspicion? Er, no.

In #215 I make sure you know that I was talking to Twisted and it had nothing to do with why I think you're scum. I also point out the large holes in your self-proclaimed town-play (namely, the fact that you hadn't pushed any of the wagons you said you pushed, you hadn't really been analysing minor events any deeper than IIoA, and you hadn't actually posted much content).

So how do you respond to this? In #222, you ignore everything other than me pointing out that you hadn't really posted much content. *clap clap* You sure shut down my qualms with your play.

What else do you do in #222? A whole bunch of fluff that I later respond to in #237 and you've only just responded to

some

of the things I mentioned in that post. Granted, you claim you've been busy, but that still doesn't explain why you're ignoring the inconvenient parts of my posts.

You want to know why I thought you were scummy on page 4? Because you coasted through the first four pages making jokes, voting people for no reason, and lots and lots of IIoA designed to make it look like you were posting content. That is why I thought you were scum, and that is what you still haven't addressed, except to claim that you were posting content.... Uh, no.

You want to know why I still think you're scum? Because you're wall-posting fluff and IIoA with a few generic reads that you've been really wishy-washy with. And people are ignoring this because they see "OH WALL POST, SHINY!!!" and look past the fact that you're not actually posting much worth reading.

And now you've somewhat reverted back to your joke-around style with your vote on PZ and you're still ignoring a lot of the questions that are inconvenient for you. And not just questions from me. You still haven't answered the concern that has been raised by multiple people now (Fenchurch, Twisted and myself) - Why do you have a town read on Rory?

You're scum. But here's the thing... I don't care about you right now because nobody seems interested in seeing you as scum D1. I'm going to find your buddies, string them up, then urinate on their dead bodies. And then I'm going to come after you.

--

That absolutely looks like a criticism, or an implication that she is likelier scum from that statement than town. You'd be foolish to frame a sentence in that manner if you didn't want it to read as an attack, or at the very least, a pointed defense.

Your gut-based read on me falls victim to the same line of criticism you give to Amrun's read on you.

I didn't criticise anything. I asked a leading question because I wanted to assess how she answered it.

[Rory the Roman]

and the above is again tunneling on a towny. Can we lynch muff now please? It's obvious he is just going on with the argument, convincing himself more and more that he believes hoopla is scum. It's classic newby scum. Pick a target. Tunnel. Keep arguing because it's easier then starting somewhere new.

Rory: is making sensea towntell for Hoopla in your eyes?

Yes. I'm town. If I can understand where someone else is going most of the time, and I think their targets make sense, then they are likely of the same mindset as me. Meaning they are likely town. In this case, that makes hoopla my second strongest townread. (the first being TS for overall play).

The about NS. I think you did this intentionally. I have actually repeated my stance on NS already, but twice apparently isn't good enough.

NS gets lynched. It's what he does. He is scummy in every game as either allignment. Voting him on page 5 with little commitment is cheap and easy and can be done by anybody. There is always a reason to votepark on NS. So either people commit and they go for a lynch (which people don't want to do at page 4 or 5), or they should find someone else to investigate.

Have you really never played with NS before?

No, I don't think I've properly played with NS before, but I get what people are saying: he has a tendency to seem scummy, regardless of alignment.

I still don't like your response to his wagon, for these reasons:

1. Acting like early wagons aren't serious wagons weakens the reactions and information gained from them. And sometimes an early lynch is the correct one; and it's the threat that we might go through with it which keeps it useful.
2. It seems like you are trying to appear pro-town via the mantra 'early quicklynches are bad', whilst at the same time trying to keep NS viable as a later mislynch, by reiterating that he is null/scummy/reaching.
3. From the way you describe it, I don't see how it is any less "cheap and easy" to vote for NS later in the game. I get the impression from this that you are not especially interested in trying to read his alignment between now and then, just that you would be willing to lynch him because

that is what always happens

.

Essentially, it seems like your you were (perhaps unwittingly) acting to slow the game, and to quash information rather than to generate it, which isn't what I'd expect from town.[/quote]

1. A bit more nuance. A wagon on NS that isn't going for the lynch is just as easily joined by scum as town. Scum would like to park their vote there.
2. I'm all for quicklynches, don't worry about that. On the other hand, they just don't happen a lot. The NS wagon had no momentum.
3. Because chances are you are then directly reponsible for his lynch. There is a difference between voteparking (which is easy for scum if a lot of people do it on NS), or gunning for a lynch. The information gained from the latter is better. And if I had good tells on NS, I would try to use them. On this moment, I can't read him well. Hardcore lurking (beyond his normal lurking) supposedly is a scumtell for him.

[zMuffinMan]

Pick a target. Tunnel. Keep arguing because it's easier then starting somewhere new.

[Twistedspoon]

In this case, that makes hoopla my second strongest townread. (the first being TS for overall play).

what do you like about my overall play?

also, have I played with one of your heads before?

[zMuffinMan]

@Hoopla,

By the way, I noticed this before, and I commented on it earlier, but... Why haven't you mentioned forest at all, except in passing (explaining that you have more content than her)? Do you have any sort of read on her?

[Amrun]

Zmuffin: what conclusion did you draw from your "leading question?"

Rory: Do you think Hoopla doesn't make sense as scum?

[VitaminR]

Quite content with my Rory vote still. The attack on muffinman is off.

Twisted, I'd like to see more from forest before making my mind up about her. I want her to talk about her reads and explain her apparent confusion about the set-up. I can see too many other explanations for her inactivity (e.g. she could just be busy).

VitaminR: Just because I think that one post MAY be an elementary scumtell does not mean that forest is the most advantageous lynch for the day.

Well clearly. I just thought you were implying you had a town read on forest. But nvm.

[Rory the Roman]

In this case, that makes hoopla my second strongest townread. (the first being TS for overall play).

what do you like about my overall play?

also, have I played with one of your heads before?

Yes, a lot. Otherwise I wouldn't be as confident.

@Amrum. Now and then, scum totally miss it. They do something that seems logical, but wouldn't go the direction that town would take. Hoopla kept it up for 12 pages now.

[Twistedspoon]

Yes, a lot. Otherwise I wouldn't be as confident.

are you AurorusVox?

Twisted, I'd like to see more from forest before making my mind up about her.

so would I

but it doesn't look like we're going to

[zMuffinMan]

@Amrun,

Meh. Doesn't really change anything. I don't always get the reactions I want from the things I do and the questions I ask. I need to be more subtle in my provocations.

[Amrun]

Yes, now and then, scum totally miss it. But have you played with Hoopla as scum, Rory?

I have, and I really don't think Hoopla would just make a big logic fail as any alignment. She is supremely logical.

Having said that, I have a town read on her here, but she blitzed me as scum even though I had decided pre-game that her number choice made her likelier to be scum. -.-

[zMuffinMan]

Rory, next post, explain your 4 scum/null->scum reads.

Like, I get that you have a crush on me and everything (don't worry, you're not alone here), but I haven't actually seen you explain any of your reads in any substantial way. I've seen you waffle on about NS a lot, and how he is lynchbait, and whatever, but the only times I've even seen you mention your #2 scum pick (Vitamin), you haven't really explained why you think he's scummy. Also, your f_a read would be cool as well. And, er, anything to better explain your scum read on me other than because I'm attacking

your scum buddy

Hoopla would be cool, too.

It's almost as if you're tunneling me because it's easier than having to start somewhere new.

[Equinox]

Nobody Special has requested replacement. Searching for replacements for forest_air, Papa Zito, and Nobody Special...

[Twistedspoon]

aww

PZ was one of the main reasons I /in'd

next time, compadré

[Papa Zito]

Nobody Special has requested replacement. Searching for replacements for forest_air, Papa Zito, and Nobody Special...

um

Posting so I don't get replaced. Apparently weekends aren't allowed round these parts.

I'll do realposting tonight.

[Rory the Roman]

Yes, now and then, scum totally miss it. But have you played with Hoopla as scum, Rory?

I have, and I really don't think Hoopla would just make a big logic fail as any alignment. She is supremely logical.

Having said that, I have a town read on her here, but she blitzed me as scum even though I had decided pre-game that her number choice made her likelier to be scum. -.-

I know hoopla well enough, I think.

Rory, next post, explain your 4 scum/null->scum reads.

Like, I get that you have a crush on me and everything (don't worry, you're not alone here), but I haven't actually seen you explain any of your reads in any substantial way. I've seen you waffle on about NS a lot, and how he is lynchbait, and whatever, but the only times I've even seen you mention your #2 scum pick (Vitamin), you haven't really explained why you think he's scummy. Also, your f_a read would be cool as well. And, er, anything to better explain your scum read on me other than because I'm attacking

your scum buddy

Hoopla would be cool, too.

It's almost as if you're tunneling me because it's easier than having to start somewhere new.

In the same post as I mention Vitamin for the last time (266) you get your answers. Vitamin is passive semi lurking scum who should know better. Esspecially on the passive part. For example: he sat back too long at the start of the game. I think I even bothered to make a case on you. There is your answer then.

Oh, and you are so clever for trying to use my argument against myself. Sadly, you missed the point where you simply keep nagging hoopla who is quite town, and you are newby scum.


PS. NS replacement is more likely town. Yay!

[Twistedspoon]

PS. NS replacement is more likely town. Yay!

town NS or frustrated or lazy NS?

[Equinox]

malpascp replaces Nobody Special. Thank you!

[Twistedspoon]

welcome, Alpa

I trust you know of the mechanic and such

[Rory the Roman]

PS. NS replacement is more likely town. Yay!

town NS or frustrated or lazy NS?

Not the "I am going to see how much I can lurk and get away with it scum NS".

At least, if the mod was honest when saying that NS requested replacement.

[Twistedspoon]

maybe he got frustated with you saying he was scummy either alignment and asked to replace out

either way I'm leaning town on Alpas/NS