Mini Normal 1187: Game Over

[nintendoaddict1]

Warning: unrelated.


I just noticed, hiplop... you live about 60km away from me.

lmao where abouts do you live?

Yeah, Bob and Barry are scum together: case coming tomorrow

Milverton, 15 minutes North of Stratford.

[hiplop]

lmao i just drove through there last saturday. Thats cool.

Well i sleep, i urge everyone to think about what i just said last post, Bob/Barry allen

[nintendoaddict1]

lmao i just drove through there last saturday. Thats cool.

Well i sleep, i urge everyone to think about what i just said last post, Bob/Barry allen

And you didn't stop for tea? Shame on you. =P

[Heliman]

As for me I stand by my vote on Heliman. He wants me to out someone I believe to be the doc? Is he kidding? That means the doc either has to protect himself (if he can) or he dies the next night phase. I think we have enough roles out there right now, thank you very much, and asking for me to out a doc is downright scummy. My vote stays on Heliman.

I never asked.

Everyone, how many scum do you think we're looking at here in this game? At first I was good with assuming three Mafia but now I'm not sure anymore... Heliman's point on the uselessness of a Mafia Tracker is making me doubt that there are only three Mafia.

IMO 2:11 ratio is pretty common in my book.

[hiplop]

lmao i just drove through there last saturday. Thats cool.

Well i sleep, i urge everyone to think about what i just said last post, Bob/Barry allen

And you didn't stop for tea? Shame on you. =P

Tea isnt really my cup'o'tea

I'm almost wanting Barry to reveal who it is, bob really doesnt want him to.. odd

[Giitah]

fuck, now that I think about it 4 seems stupid again. >__>

I'll have to think more on it tomorrow, obviously I'm not functioning well if I'm thinking there's 13 town and 4 Mafia in a 13-player game. >__>

[archaebob]

Also, no matter what, we are NOT lynching nintendo today.

If his claim is true, then mafia HAS to kill him. He has the ability to confirm scum via process of elimination, and waiting for him to be mislynched is not a viable option for them. Every day he stays alive gives outrageous amounts of information to the town.

It's actually kind of a ridiculously powerful role...

Honestly, I might be feeling this claim a little less than I thought I did. There are some implications to this role that I hadn't considered.

In any case, the play is to leave him for now, and if he's alive tomorrow, we kill him.

@ Heliman -

You forget the confirmed roleblocker. Scum tracker makes perfect sense against a doctor AND a roleblocker.

@ Barry Allen -

I really don't like that you always begin your defenses by telling me how town you think I am. Your reasoning here doesn't make much sense anyways; doc could easily protect a scum by mistake. There is no evidence for my being town except what I've posted in thread, and it's weird for you to keep bringing that up.

I've made it perfectly clear why I don't believe you can be a town tracker. We already have a confirmed roleblocker, and if you are a town tracker, that means there is at least ANOTHER town PR in addition to that. With the mason team thrown in, I can't see this being balanced.

And that's excluding the sensor claim. Listen Barry, if you were actually a tracker, you wouldn't even for a

second

entertain the idea that nintendo could actually be a sensor, because of how ridiculously unbalanced that would make the town side in this game. How can you possibly be voting Heliman right now if you are really a tracker?

I'm not buying this at all.

[nintendoaddict1]

Calling Doc protection.

[archaebob]

@ Hiplop -

Can you try something, just as an experiment for me, and think about what you are typing before you post it?

I've argued very clearly about why Barry Allen shouldn't out his report. But to spell it out a little more, there are essentially three possibilities here:

1) Barry Allen is a town tracker - In this event, he probably tracked the doctor or something along those lines. He should NOT reveal who he tracked.

2) Barry Allen is a goon who fakeclaimed tracker yesterday - If Barry Allen has no tracking powers, I can't imagine him giving a fake result like that. It would be an incredibly risky and stupid move without any apparent gain.

3) Barry Allen is a scum tracker - In this event, he probably tracked the doctor or something along those lines. He should NOT reveal who he tracked.

There is no situation in which Barry Allen's report helps town ascertain his alignment, and there are two in which he outs a PR for no reason.

What about this do you NOT understand?

[hiplop]

I see your point. I had a situation drawn up in my mind, but yeah getting a little too tired to be posting in mafia probaly.

[Scumhunter]

1) You were way too stubborn and opinionated yesterday to be this nervous and weaksauce today. Just like, in general.

2) I don't buy your uber-evenhanded reaction to nintendo's claim. You give us a lot of plausible sounding hypotheticals and no opinions.

3) Nice foreshadowing of a future hiplop vote there. If you ever do decide later on that he's your best bet for a mislynch, you'll be SUPER PREPARED. You know why? Cause you already showed the town that you were starting to suspect him back in post 735!! *applause*

4) On Barry Allen outing his report: are you "leaning", or are you "100% yes"? Make up your mind. If you are "100% yes" on Barry Allen outing his report, there is no reason for you to qualify that with an "at this point." What does that even mean? Like, as opposed to future points? That would seem to defeat the purpose of being 100% yes. It's transparent to anyone who has played scum before what you are doing with this overcautious mixture of awkward assertiveness and shifty flip flopping.

1. I was V/LA this past weekend and need some time to really think about what has happened. I will have strong opinions once I catch up. I don't want to throw around any accusations til I get a chance to really review the last 5 pages or so closer, but my inital reads are I believe Barry is town, hiplop's initial comment at the beginning of d2 confused me.

2. My evenhandedness is because I'm not sure if I believe it or not. I do need to read nintendo more. Initially I believe it although it really would be a very beneficial fake claim for scum.

3. Yes I will likely be voting hiplop. Do you not read his assumption as "wtf?" I can't imagine thinkign that from town perspective and why the hell would a vig shoot a mason claim.

4. I feel very strongly that Barry should out his report. Close to 95% sure he should unless someone can convince me otherwise. Let's look at the scenarios:
-Barry is town, his report is on scum rolecop or other visiting role. Scum is forced to fake claim. If they are lynched later in the game and flip scum roleblocker or scum role cop, that makes the person they visited clear.
-Barry is scum tracker, his report is fake and on a scum buddy. Him outing report harms town in no way really since that makes him a lying scumwad anyways
-Barry is scum tracker, and his report is on town powerrole. Barry knows a town powerrole already and this doesn't hurt us
-Barry is town and his report is on town power role. I guess this might hurt us if he is outing specifically doc in a game with no mafia roleblocker.

I'm actually an advocate of a mass claim. I think mass claiming is one of the most underutilized town weapons in the game. We have a lot of pr claims. Its quite possible at least one of them is fake. Although with 2 potential anti-town killing roles, outing clears this early could be dangerous, meh.

[nintendoaddict1]

I guess this might hurt us if he is outing specifically doc in a game with no mafia roleblocker.

Whoops, how would you know if there is a mafia RB or not?

[Scumhunter]

I guess this might hurt us if he is outing specifically doc in a game with no mafia roleblocker.

Whoops, how would you know if there is a mafia RB or not?

I don't. These were hypotheticals. What I meant to say is the only way outing a doc would be "very bad" was if there is a mafia roleblocker that could block the doc and kill Barry. If we out the "doc" we could also have the other mason claim and we could potentially have a bunch of clears. I don't know. With 2 killing factions this could go very wrong. Barry, what do you think about outing your report or not?

[Barry Allen]

@ Bob - OK, I won't start this post the way I've started my other ones. You are an idiot. If you succeed in getting me lynched, you will have to realize that you are certainly an idiot. You cannot "imagine a scenario" where I'm actually what I say I am? That simply means you won't let anything get past your preconceived notion and your tendency to jump first and ask questions

later

never. Your posts, as I said earlier, are becoming anti-town in their impact - you aren't even noticing hiplop's attempts to make you seem scum because you are too busy trying to lynch the tracker.

@ hiplop - you've jumped back and forth on me, and now you want to claim a bob/barry scumteam? I've very clearly stated my concerns about you already, and frankly I'm tired of dealing with you. I've stated my case during D1, and now you've added the back and forth jumps on me already this day phase without explaining your votes or your changes of mind. Now, you want to plant seeds of bob also being scum. I'm done with you.

UNVOTE

VOTE: hiplop

[Barry Allen]

EBWOP: I still do not believe outing my full report is helpful at this point in the round. With 11 players left, there are too many opportunities for the maf to kill a doc. I get the argument that this seems a role-heavy round if nintendo's claim is true - but given that we already have one PR dead and another revealed before D1 ended, I don't want to take the chance on D2 of lynching another PR. And, I don't want to take the chance of making a doc vulnerable to hit if I reveal my result.

[Heliman]

-Barry is scum tracker, and his report is on town powerrole. Barry knows a town powerrole already and this doesn't hurt us

Actually this one depends on weather or not scum can daychat. Where I come from they can, but I understand that usually they can't here.

[hiplop]

@ Bob - OK, I won't start this post the way I've started my other ones. You are an idiot. If you succeed in getting me lynched, you will have to realize that you are certainly an idiot. You cannot "imagine a scenario" where I'm actually what I say I am? That simply means you won't let anything get past your preconceived notion and your tendency to jump first and ask questions

later

never. Your posts, as I said earlier, are becoming anti-town in their impact - you aren't even noticing hiplop's attempts to make you seem scum because you are too busy trying to lynch the tracker.

@ hiplop - you've jumped back and forth on me, and now you want to claim a bob/barry scumteam? I've very clearly stated my concerns about you already, and frankly I'm tired of dealing with you. I've stated my case during D1, and now you've added the back and forth jumps on me already this day phase without explaining your votes or your changes of mind. Now, you want to plant seeds of bob also being scum. I'm done with you.

UNVOTE

VOTE: hiplop

Did you even read my post? I said im going to type up a case in the morning.. going to start it now

[archaebob]

@ Bob - OK, I won't start this post the way I've started my other ones. You are an idiot. If you succeed in getting me lynched, you will have to realize that you are certainly an idiot. You cannot "imagine a scenario" where I'm actually what I say I am? That simply means you won't let anything get past your preconceived notion and your tendency to jump first and ask questions later never. Your posts, as I said earlier, are becoming anti-town in their impact - you aren't even noticing hiplop's attempts to make you seem scum because you are too busy trying to lynch the tracker.

Nowhere in this do you respond to my

arguments

. You know, those things that actually use logic to back up assertions?

Your AtE is worthless to me.

If you are a tracker, then

why aren't you voting for nintendoaddict

. Are you trying to tell me that we have a roleblocker, a tracker, a doctor, a sensor, AND a mason team? Give me a break.

You continue to reveal your alignment by not examining the implications of your own fakeclaim.

And you can call me an idiot all you want, but that doesn't bring you any closer to explaining why town has six PRs in this game.

Either you or nintendo are scum, period. You don't disagree with that statement, do you?

@ everyone -

I actually might support a mass claim, but I think we should do it tomorrow.

Can all of you tell me your experiences with sensors? How common are they in mini normals?

[hiplop]

Pine - 7 (ace5993, Giitah, Scumhunter,

archaebob, Barry Allen

, Heliman, foilist13)

I believe Nintendo, which means there are two scum on this wagon. At this point in time im going to focus on the two right in the middle, Bob and Barry. Just note: Barry is super obv scum, im just trying to consider all scenarios for a buddy. Barry has essentially claimed scum by not going after Nintendo. Its true, its damn true.


Ok, so in the beginning of the day, I mention how weird it is that Bob is still alive, so I assumed the Mafia kill got blocked when attempting to kill Bob, and some sort of Vig killed DH. With Barry Allens tracker claim, this implies that there is a roleblocker, tracker, sensor, a mason team, and another PR (likely doctor, vig, cop etc) on the town’s side.

There’s no way we have THAT many power roles, and it sounds to me like Barry is covering Bob’s ass. Mafia would have tried to kill bob no matter what, he’s too strong of a player/pretty much everyone agrees that he is town. Much more dangerous than a Mason. That's why i thought a vig killed DH, because of how strong Bob is.

But since the Mafia killed DH, that makes it seem like Bob is mafia.

I highly doubt we have a killing role on our side, plus all of the others. The tracker result, even if Barry is town: DOESN'T PROVE ANYTHING, it just means that someone visited bob, That guy could have been the mafia godfather, easily....

Bob, I do believe you're town, because you were visited last night and somehow you are still alive. That says you were likely doc'd. That being said, I believe you should check the springs in your shoes, as they must be worn out from jumping to conclusions. We've lost too many roles at this point, and if you want to lynch me and watch another PR for the town go down you will only be entertaining the mafia. "There's no scenario that makes sense in which he isn't a scum tracker?" Are you kidding me? How about the scenario where I'm the tracker for the town? I do believe you are town, and in fact I have really good evidence of that fact, but the impact of your out-there posts is anti-town. Please take a chill pill and stop it.

Why do you keep bringing up how town bob is? It doesn’t sound natural at all, and sounds like you’re trying to give him town cred after your inevitable flip. Explain your “evidence” that makes bob town, now. Again, it sounds like you’re trying to protect bob by continuously bringing up how townie he is due to some unknown evidence

Barry shouldn't reveal who he tracked, because it won't help us

. He isn't lying about the fact that someone targeted me

, it's just definitely not scum, because he's a scum tracker himself.

That's why he's confirmed scum. There's no way he's faking this result, and that means he can't possibly be town. We do not have a roleblocker, a tracker, a sensor, a doctor, AND a mason team. Get the hell out of here.

What is much more likely is that we have a roleblocker, a sensor, a doctor, and a mason team, and that scum has a tracker to counterbalance that. Even that is a little unbalanced towards town, as you can see. It's obvious that Barry tracked whoever tried to protect me, and revealed his result today in a townish seeming way in order to keep playing to his fakeclaim. If you think about it, there's really no scenario that makes sense in which he isn't a scum tracker. Even if you don't believe the sensor claim, there is no way that Barry Allen is a town tracker.If you want to keep pretending to be town, you need to NOT reveal who tracked me today. I have no doubt you will find some excuse though.

This smells like a bus, Barry Allen could have easily “Tracked” the mafia. He only knows who that

one

person visited.

3) Barry Allen is a scum tracker - In this event, he probably tracked the doctor or something along those lines. He should NOT reveal who he tracked.

Then the only people who know who the lone power role is, would be scum. How is that helpful to the town in any way? You’re trying way too hard to hide this. I wouldn’t necessarily say that Barry should tell who it is, but your logic is very one sided towards the mafia. If he is scum, they already know the PR, but we don’t. That gives scum an advantage, and since that is what you think he is, why are you opposing him revealing his result? Sounds like you're wanting to keep that edge.

How do you know, that he isn't lying?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Barry Allen

Read list (from town -> Scum)
Hiplop
Ace
Foilist
Scumhunter
Nintendo
Heliman
Bob
Valern
Giitah
Little Grey


Barry Allen

As you can see, bob isn't a huge sus of mine, but no one else was willing to consider it, there is a high chance hes scum, but he feels too townie to be scum i guess.

Anyone else have any thoughts? i didnt go far back for quotes as i am busy, bu if you have anything to add, feel free to share

Hm, if there is a vig. I think they should out themselves, but only if they're a vig.

[Valern]

@Mod: I'm sorry, but I need an emergency V/LA for a day or two while some RL stuff gets taken care of.

If I'm not back by the end of the second of July, replace me.

Sorry folks. Unexpected shitstorm.

-btw, if anyone just happens to be rolling in extra dough looking for a good cause to donate to, I could

really

use it right now. >.<

[archaebob]

@ hiplop -

Unless scum has daytalk, I don't see why the other scum players would know Barry's tracker result. Right now he's probably the only one with that information.

And STOP asking PRs to out themselves. There isn't a fucking vig, and if there was, he should be keeping his damn mouth shut.

[hiplop]

@ hiplop -

Unless scum has daytalk, I don't see why the other scum players would know Barry's tracker result. Right now he's probably the only one with that information.

And STOP asking PRs to out themselves. There isn't a fucking vig, and if there was, he should be keeping his damn mouth shut.

scum would have daytalk in this game, i'd think. To balance out all the PRs.

[foilist13]

That doesn't make any sense Hiplop. We

don't

have this many PR's. Some of them are definitely lying. Scum daytalking would in no way be a useful counter balance for this ridiculous amount of PR's.

[hiplop]

@foilist, i guess you're right, but I'm still guessing they have it, IDK

IF NOT!

@ hiplop -

Unless scum has daytalk, I don't see why the other scum players would know Barry's tracker result. Right now he's probably the only one with that information.

And STOP asking PRs to out themselves. There isn't a fucking vig, and if there was, he should be keeping his damn mouth shut.

They would know his result anyway, at night he probably would have said who he was tracking, and he revealed in thread who they visited.

If hes scumtracker, they know who the PR is, again

[archaebob]

@ Hiplop -

That's fair. I guess scum probably does know the report, so it doesn't help us to keep it from the town.

@ everybody -

A mass claim might not be a bad idea about now. What do you think?

@ ace -

I'm missing your contribution about now. What's the deal?