Newbie 1120 - The Scum in Sherlock (Over!)

[hitogoroshi]

Vote Count #16

hiplop:

Thor665, Scumhunter, DeityKabuto (L-2)

Scumhunter:

Thor665

, Awesoma, hiplop

DeityKabuto:

Hellhound1,

Scumhunter

, Torqez

Awesoma:

foilist13

Thor665:

Torqez

Not Voting:

ninjacheese,

DeityKabuto

Deadline is on July 6th, 2011, at 2PM Central Time.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

***

Ninjacheese has requested replacement. Searching for one now.

[hiplop]

The Scumhunter --> Thor --> Scumhunter doesn't make sense for a town player to have done the way you did.

Scumhunter is pressured up.
Scumhunter is scum because...I agree with Thor's case!
Thor is pressured up.
Thor is scum because...I trusted him enough to sheep a case, but, ah, yeah, let's sheep another case which everyone who is asked about it is now admitting was fabricated and basically never existed, Thor is scum!
Thor wuss slaps case.
Ah...Thor was always town, I just forgot, Scumhunter remains scum, even though believeing Scumhunter was town was pretty much 50% of the Thor=scum case. Scumhunter is scum!

Town motive for those movements? I don't know.
Scum motive? Very clear.

I dont see whats so negative abbout going back to my previous vote. you convinced me you were town, like you said, 50% of it was that scumhunter was town. Since i now believe you're town, that 50% goes to scumhunter, making him my prime suspectt

[Thor665]

How does believing I'm town weaken a belief in Scumhunter town? There's actually no connection there at all.

[hiplop]

to me its one of those things where one of you is scum, other is town sort of thing

[Hellhound1]

How does believing I'm town weaken a belief in Scumhunter town? There's actually no connection there at all.

I see that as you being so against scumhunter that if someone takes a view of you as town, that makes Scumhunter scum.

[Torqez]

ffffffffffffffffff deleted what i was gonna write accidentally

[Torqez]

Sigh, attempt 2:

How does believing I'm town weaken a belief in Scumhunter town? There's actually no connection there at all.

I see that as you being so against scumhunter that if someone takes a view of you as town, that makes Scumhunter scum.

@ Hellhound. I assume Thor meant, that hiplop clearing Scumhunter if Thor is town, has nothing to do with this. Because either way, both could still be scum. Clearing one is independent of each other in this case.

hiplop can't know for sure that they aren't just bussing each other. So ye Only way to know for sure is unless he's scum himself! :p (That way obviously Thor + Scumhunter can't be scum!)

Regardless, regarding my view on hiplop - I did get an initial town read on him, because while my read, I had a newbscum read on Awesoma. Then hiplop posted this as I was going along and felt that he thought along the same lines as me.

But interesting notion about the vote swapping between Thor and Scumhunter, I didn't even notice it really. And lol @ the defense of:

To be fair, i always flip flop my votes in games, tis part of my style. I hate being wrong, and im super stubborn. I try to find the optimal result, so i think about things a lot. Hence my switches in votes quite often. If you want proof look at any of my old games. I can dig up a specific one if youd like

Anyway, still not convinced. But here's another thing that irks me with DK:

Vote hiplop

what? why? who? when? where? Want to back it up? Maybe give your thoughts? Or again did you just vote cos other think he's the most scummy and you havn't read yet?

----------------

PS: You might wanna vote using the vote tags. Though not sure if this is a requirement from our mod - who's pretty cool about these things!

[Torqez]

hiplop can't know for sure that they aren't just bussing each other. So ye Only way to know for sure is unless he's scum himself! :p (That way obviously Thor + Scumhunter can't be scum!)

I should also add, that they could both be town too.

[hitogoroshi]

Shahrizai replaces ninjacheese. Thanks, shahrizai!

[Torqez]

Welcome sharizai!! ...Don't envy your position. I had trouble reading through 8 pages. You have 16! Gl!

Appreciate you replacing in though

[Thor665]

He has 16 because we should have hammered Cloud 6 pages ago

@hiplop - Day 1 "one is town the other is scum" is pretty much one of the most horrible traps town can fall into, and scum love to set it up or sell town on it. Why? Because then if you lynch one of them and he flips town, everyone is eager to rush into that second lynch because "hey, either/or trollololol!" Generally speaking, however, a vast amount of these either/or cases are based off of simply the two players arguing a lot...which is meaningless to alignment except *maybe* suggesting they aren't partners (and anyone who thinks I'm partners with Scumhunter is either super silly or super paranoid, quite frankly - remember when the case was I was scummy because I wanted to lynch him too quick? Yeah). In any case - let me assure you there is less than zero evidence that if I'm town Scumhunter = scum. Could he be scum? Sure. But there's no actual support to your belief, and if you're town you are helping scum by falling into the arguing = one of them is scum trap. Extract yourself.

@Torq - Really, what I meant was very simply the above. Scum and I could be Town/Scum, we could also be Town/Town and there's no clear evidence to suggest one is more likely unless you really believe my case on Scumhunter - in which case it's still Thor town and Scum scum, and the either/or thing shouldn't even be part of the discussion. Also - if you're going to pick on DK for being DK please just say you want to policy lynch him because you don't like his playstyle - he is very (unfortunately) unlikely to change by you just sounding exasperated with him. Trust me.

[hiplop]

He has 16 because we should have hammered Cloud 6 pages ago

@hiplop - Day 1 "one is town the other is scum" is pretty much one of the most horrible traps town can fall into, and scum love to set it up or sell town on it. Why? Because then if you lynch one of them and he flips town, everyone is eager to rush into that second lynch because "hey, either/or trollololol!" Generally speaking, however, a vast amount of these either/or cases are based off of simply the two players arguing a lot...which is meaningless to alignment except *maybe* suggesting they aren't partners (and anyone who thinks I'm partners with Scumhunter is either super silly or super paranoid, quite frankly - remember when the case was I was scummy because I wanted to lynch him too quick? Yeah). In any case - let me assure you there is less than zero evidence that if I'm town Scumhunter = scum. Could he be scum? Sure. But there's no actual support to your belief, and if you're town you are helping scum by falling into the arguing = one of them is scum trap. Extract yourself.

@Torq - Really, what I meant was very simply the above. Scum and I could be Town/Scum, we could also be Town/Town and there's no clear evidence to suggest one is more likely unless you really believe my case on Scumhunter - in which case it's still Thor town and Scum scum, and the either/or thing shouldn't even be part of the discussion. Also - if you're going to pick on DK for being DK please just say you want to policy lynch him because you don't like his playstyle - he is very (unfortunately) unlikely to change by you just sounding exasperated with him. Trust me.

Don't worry, im not saying your flip confirms the other, just at this point i'm thinking one of you is scum. Flipping between as you're both making me believe you for different parts

[Scumhunter]

hiplop, why do you think me/Thor is Scum/Town as opposed to Town/Town? I don't particularly think Thor is scum nor do I see how our argument is necessarily indicative of a town v. scum argument. Really, Thor and I are just both really stubborn and our arguing is more indicative of our personalities than anything. I'm not really too impressed with your response here =/

[Shahrizai]

Hi! I'm working my way through the thread now (just started page three), should be ready to comment tomorrow, probably in the afternoon.

[Torqez]

He has 16 because we should have hammered Cloud 6 pages ago

lol'd

@Torq - Really, what I meant was very simply the above. Scum and I could be Town/Scum, we could also be Town/Town and there's no clear evidence to suggest one is more likely unless you really believe my case on Scumhunter - in which case it's still Thor town and Scum scum, and the either/or thing shouldn't even be part of the discussion.

Ya, which is what I was trying to tell Hellhound.

Also - if you're going to pick on DK for being DK please just say you want to policy lynch him because you don't like his playstyle - he is very (unfortunately) unlikely to change by you just sounding exasperated with him.

Well, i definitely don't like it. Hopefully we can get him to talk a bit more and explain his votes. Else he's just a bandwagoning anti-town player and my vote is happy where it's at.

Trust me.

Not yet!

[foilist13]

Sorry, I've lost track of this game a bit. I'll catch up and post tomorrow.

[hitogoroshi]

Vote Count #17

hiplop:

Thor665, Scumhunter, DeityKabuto (L-2)

Scumhunter:

Awesoma, hiplop

DeityKabuto:

Hellhound1, Torqez

Awesoma:

foilist13

Not Voting:

Shahrizai

Deadline is on July 6th, 2011, at 2PM Central Time.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

***

Awesoma has been prodded.

[Scumhunter]

I'm thinking a hiplop flip will be scum ~75% of the time here. Yes, I'm actually pretty confident given hiplop's lack of a compelling response to Thor and I's concerns.

@Thor, which probably makes cloud/DK town, so boo at you. So assuming hiplop scum...lynching town all those pages ago is not what we should have done. I refuse to settle for D1 just being ML day, sorry. A ML on any day should always be a huge disappointment imo.

I'm very much in favor of where my vote is right now.

Hey Torqez, do you mind voting hiplop? Thor saying that DK not reading the thread is sadly believable means that a DK lynch just isn't going to happen today imo.

Awesoma, foilist, Shahrizai, I look forward to all of you catching up on the recent happenings and weighing in. Particularly what you think of the case on hiplop...

[Torqez]

I'm thinking a hiplop flip will be scum ~75% of the time here. Yes, I'm actually pretty confident given hiplop's lack of a compelling response to Thor and I's concerns.

k, so just based on what you've said over the last couple of reasons? That'd be the case on him?

Hey Torqez, do you mind voting hiplop?

I don't mind voting hiplop. But that'd put him on L-1 atm, and I'd rather here from folist, awesoma, hellhound and shahrizai first. But yea, if the case is strong and they somewhat agree, I have no problem in hammering if it came down to it.

But tbh, I still prefer an Awesoma or a DK lynch at this time.

Thor saying that DK not reading the thread is sadly believable means that a DK lynch just isn't going to happen today imo."

This is not good news. Just cos he doesn't read the thread, means we exclude him from lynching? We don't want to advocate lurking. If DK's play makes no sense and he just rides on the coattails of others, then I have no problem with lynching him today.

[Torqez]

hear* from folist, awesoma, hellhound and shahrizai first.

[DeityKabuto]

Scumhunter, who do you think is scum?

[Thor665]

@Thor, which probably makes cloud/DK town, so boo at you. So assuming hiplop scum...lynching town all those pages ago is not what we should have done. I refuse to settle for D1 just being ML day, sorry. A ML on any day should always be a huge disappointment imo.

Though if he had flipped town we wouldn't have the DK problem we have now (and trust me, if you can't see how he's a problem if he's town you're blind)
Also we'd have a shorter thread which wouldn't be causing these other players to claim 'awww, reading up' as much of an excuse (trust me, scum will hide behind that one at some point this game)
We'd also avoid at least one claim, which is only helping scum.
Finally, we'd have still had relational tells that, if hiplop is scum, could have aimed us at him tomorrow. You've seen me catch scum off a town mislynch that I lead before - and scum on Day 2 is still pretty functional.

::shrug:: Yeah, mislynch Day 1 isn't the best thing in the world, but I'd take a mislynch in 10 solid pages over a correct lynch in 20 so/so pages and consider it overall a superior game situation for town. Town wears down quicker than scum.

so just based on what you've said over the last couple of reasons? That'd be the case on him?
[snip]
But tbh, I still prefer an Awesoma or a DK lynch at this time.

Have you presented a case on either of them?

Thought; both of your prime suspects are what I would define as the weaker players in this game. Do you think you suspect them for being scum, or being weak players?

[Scumhunter]

::shrug:: Yeah, mislynch Day 1 isn't the best thing in the world, but I'd take a mislynch in 10 solid pages over a correct lynch in 20 so/so pages and consider it overall a superior game situation for town. Town wears down quicker than scum.

Lol wut? Correctly lynching 1 of 2 mafia d1 is inferior game situation for town compared to a quick ML. What is this, I don't even.

@DK, if hiplop flips scum, I see Torqez as a quite likely partner although it could be a lurker as well. I think hiplop is quite likely scum here, hence the vote. Torqez is pushing on the alternative "I'd rather lynch DK/Awesoma" today, which really seems like pushing for an easy ML. Don't really get why he prefers a Awesoma/DK lynch at the moment. If you could explain why Torqez that would be helpful.

If hiplop is town, I'm not really sure. I'd probably take another long skeptical look at DK and Thor before still being completely undecided XD. I'm reasonable confident I am right on hiplop and I will cross the hiplop=town bridge if and when we come to it.

[Thor665]

Lol wut? Correctly lynching 1 of 2 mafia d1 is inferior game situation for town compared to a quick ML. What is this, I don't even.

I quite clearly explained why I believe this. Frankly, I'd rather lynch scum Day 2 over Day 1 any game.

[hiplop]

::shrug:: Yeah, mislynch Day 1 isn't the best thing in the world, but I'd take a mislynch in 10 solid pages over a correct lynch in 20 so/so pages and consider it overall a superior game situation for town. Town wears down quicker than scum.

Lol wut? Correctly lynching 1 of 2 mafia d1 is inferior game situation for town compared to a quick ML. What is this, I don't even.

@DK, if hiplop flips scum, I see Torqez as a quite likely partner although it could be a lurker as well. I think hiplop is quite likely scum here, hence the vote. Torqez is pushing on the alternative "I'd rather lynch DK/Awesoma" today, which really seems like pushing for an easy ML. Don't really get why he prefers a Awesoma/DK lynch at the moment. If you could explain why Torqez that would be helpful.

If hiplop is town, I'm not really sure. I'd probably take another long skeptical look at DK and Thor before still being completely undecided XD. I'm reasonable confident I am right on hiplop and I will cross the hiplop=town bridge if and when we come to it.

Be prepared to havea long skeptical look at DK and thor if you do end up lynching me