Mini 1195: The Beehive Mystery (GAME OVER)

[Acronach]

ok, where?

Really?
Post 229

Regardless, I'm not all that interested in whether or not Sleepy had a valid reason for calling Acro a VI. I'm interested in why he felt it was necessary to excuse Arco's refusal to vote in the first place.

you're not interested and still making arguments using it as a base?

Post 235

I didn't read the link, because it's irrelevant to my suspicions of him or you. I don't care why SK thinks you're a VI. I care why he went out of his way to defend you, and I care why you seem to be going out of your way to return the favor.

it's irrevalant but you're still weaving arguments around it?

Post 237

I'm really not interested in whether he is or isn't a VI. Judging purely on this game, I'd say he's not, but it's irrelevant. The important thing is the mutual defense between Acro and SK, which I still find quite suspicious.

and a big part of the mutual defense is the VI thing. why ignore it?

Post 330

The case would be the same whether he excused your non votes based on a meta history non-voting, or a defense of non-voting in general (which he did), or attacked the one who was trying to pressure you based on non-voting (which he did). The VI issue is irrelevant to the reason anybody finds SK scummy.

your question is why he called me a VI. i told you and you ignored it. if you ask a question that has to do with the VI thing and then say the V thing is irrevelant, it just doesn't work.

FYI, you could have found all but one of these explanations by searching my ISO for "irrelevant"

irrelevant (ɪˈrɛləvənt)

— adj
not relating or pertinent to the matter at hand; not important

ok, now you're just being a dick

That is what your behavior in the previous game with SK is to my case against SK in this game. Irrelevant.

how do you know? you've never even read the previous game.

As I've said multiple times. It doesn't matter to me the least bit why SK thinks you're a VI and whether he is right or wrong in his assessment. It matters why he felt compelled to lessen the pressure on you. Your behavior in a previous game does not matter to my case at all, therefor I have not spent any of my limited time reading that previous game.

he called me VI to lessen the pressure on me
he lessened the pressure on me by calling me VI

Spoiler: wanna know something?

it's the same damn thing!!!

so why do you just assume it's irrelevant? and i'd like an answer that isn't "i don't care" or anything similar to that.

sorry for anyone who has questions ect. for me. i'll try to get around to them, but this post was just annoying me too much for me not to dissect it.

pedit:

I'm going to do a full reread.

this is actually sounding like a good idea. i think i might do that too if i find the time.

[subgenius]

ok, now you're just being a dick

Yep, and I admit, this time I was doing it on purpose. I can't believe we're still having this argument.

so why do you just assume it's irrelevant? and i'd like an answer that isn't "i don't care" or anything similar to that.

SK is on my suspect list because he was defending you early in the game in a way that I and some other players consider excessive. These defenses are well documented, and they aren't limited to him calling you a VI. The possible scum motivations of a scum player going out of his way to defend town early in the game have been explained, and the possible scum motivation to defend scum should not have to be explained. You are repeatedly trying to force me to read evidence that proves SK had a good evidence for calling you a VI, and maybe he does, but no matter how good his evidence is, it does not absolve him from mounting a suspiciously vigorous and early defense of you. He could be completely right about you acting like a VI in the previous game, but that would not explain why he felt compelled to try to excuse your actions in this game.

I don't know how to explain it any more clearly than that. How you acted in the previous game simply has no bearing on my thoughts about SK's actions in this game, particularly since his defenses of you weren't limited to him calling you a VI. I believe you when you say SK has reasons for calling you a VI. It just doesn't change anything about my case, which is about his choice to defend you not his choice of how to defend you.

And one last thing:

and a big part of the mutual defense is the VI thing. why ignore it?

I've explained why the specifics of the evidence leading to the VI charge are not that important as far as SK is concerned. I've said in the past that I thought it was strange that you would corroborate SK's VI charge, but I don't count that much as a defense, since as I've said, it's not related to my suspicions of him. You were merely providing information, which is fine, although strange, given the situation.

This, on the other hand, is where you are defending SK:

honestly, i can see where hes coming from in both cases as far as the defending me is concerned, and that was more of a "voting vs. not voting" debate rather than a "lynch acro or dont lynch him" debate. i don't think he was defending me, but rather he was defending the idea that voting when you don't have a strong FOS on anyone in particular is anti-town.

Because this actually addresses the case against SK. You're claiming he wasn't actually defending you, which more directly strikes at the case against him. It's also false, as I pointed out in 232. You never did respond to this, and we've been running in circles about the old game you linked ever since. The above quote is where your half of the mutual defense really comes into play, and you still haven't addressed my rebuttal of it.

[Klazam]

Not bothering to log in as Ivan for this one.

This is NOT acceptable in my game. A warning has been PMed to this hydra.

[Beck]

==========[]

[Acronach]

Not bothering to log in as Ivan for this one.

This is NOT acceptable in my game. A warning has been PMed to this hydra.

[Klazam]

Day One: Vote Count Four

Ivan the Pleasant (2) –YankCane151, Acronach
Acronach (1) – ConfidAnon
YankCane151 (4)- Greymarble, ICEninja, Ivan the Pleasant, Beck
Captain Spoon (2)- SleepyKrew, Da Koolzzy
SleepyKrew (2) - Captain Spoon, Subgenius

Not voting: (2) – rblinker123, Tommy

With 13 alive, it’s 7 to lynch.

The deadline is Friday July 8, 4 PM EST.

[subgenius]

Acro, you've currently got questions pending from Beck and Tommy, and you're posting macros instead.

[Beck]

Will be nice if we can hit night before the 4th, but if not no biggie

[Ivan the Pleasant]

Yank is probscum, but Tommy is obvscum.

Yank will make a fine lynch today, but in the meantime we're doing this.

unvote vote Tommy

No way in hell that kind of self-analysis and over explanation is coming from town.

- Ivan the Fool (archaebob)

The other head (who I will henceforth refer to as Ivan the Terrible) is semi-V/LA right now, so I will be acting unilaterally until he gets back.

[Beck]

:headdesk:

[subgenius]

I think I know what you're referring to, but a little more explanation would be nice, particularly since this is the first you've mentioned of Tommy at all.

[Ivan the Pleasant]

This is the last time we will be talking about ourselves, at least with regards to who we are and what our deal is. We will sign posts as Ivan the Fool and Ivan the Terrible when appropriate, and will refrain from doing so when it serves no purpose. We do not wish to be more transparent than that, and will ignore any further questions on this issue.

@ Tommy -

Do you have a town meta on this site? If so, please link it.

@ subgenius -

We will explain in due time. First item on the list is that meta, if he has one.

[YankCane151]

unvote, Vote: Greymarble

Ivan's been giving me town reads, Grey has had 3 posts and really hasn't said much of substance.

[Beck]

unvote, Vote: Greymarble

Ivan's been giving me town reads, Grey has had 3 posts and really hasn't said much of substance.

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please post to anything he has done to give you a town read please, especially after you were saying this

We didn't say we were keeping them to ourselves, we stated them already. You made a comment that sounded nervous and scummy and so we voted you for it. It doesn't require further discussion on our part.

No, you didn't state them. You over-analyzed my first post and then sat back and let the bandwagon form. Herp. I mean really, pushing for a quicklynch on day 1? Are you trying to get lynched tomorrow? If no one can see the ridiculousness behind your case now, I can only hope they see it when I pop up dead townie, tomorrow. There's no way you can be town, while pushing for a quicklynch, failing to discuss, feeding the bandwagon fire, what else? Whether it's today or tomorrow, you're down for the count. Let's just make it easy on the town and lynch sure scum today. Come on, you don't even want to discuss? Sure, it'd be easy to sweep a newb to the gallows and quicklynch without discussion(to make day 2 easy for another mislynch), but I refuse to let that happen, and any real townie will as well. You however, just want the lynch and struck for the first thing you could twist around in your favor. Please, enlighten me to how you guys think you are pro-town in anyways.

Unovte, Vote:Ivan The Pleasant

[Beck]

so for the record, this looks like prototypical double bussing, backtracking, and now distancing.

[ICEninja]

Normally I like to go in to depth about my cases and explain the thought processes behind everything, but honestly.

3 more votes on Yank and let's call it a day. Seriously.

[Beck]

Normally I like to go in to depth about my cases and explain the thought processes behind everything, but honestly.

3 more votes on Yank and let's call it a day. Seriously.

agreed

and with that I am off to bed, see you in about 6 hours.

[YankCane151]

He's been scumhunting and not just riding bandwagons like you, Beck.

[subgenius]

unvote

vote: Yank

Honestly, I expected him to disappear and be prodded out. I certainly didn't expect him to come back and vote Grey with a one line explanation. After his two day disappearance following a period of pressure, he really needed to come back strong to lessen my suspicions of him. This vote against Grey is the opposite of strong.

I'm not sure I'm ready for the day to end, because I feel like this is continuing to be an eventful and informative day, but I'm liking a Yank lynch a lot at this point.

[Acronach]

so yank... feel like claiming before i push it to L-1 or should we just proceed with the lynch and wait for mod to tell us?

[Acronach]

ivan goes 2morro btw, i dont care what anyone says

[YankCane151]

Why exactly are you fishing for a claim at L-2?

Also Beck: Could you not analyze me in complete mafia terms? "Double bussing, backtracking, distancing" sounds convulted and makes you soundtown without actually saying anything.

[YankCane151]

Seriously, just vote for me if you think I'm scum, don't just go around and say "Oh look, I waited, I'm not scum" for when I flip town. I'll claim at L-1.

[Acronach]

I'll claim at L-1.

okay

unvote, vote yank

it's now L-1

[YankCane151]

Didn't address the rest of my post, but okay...

I'm a mason. I have two partners but I will not out them nor do I expect them to out themselves (And no, making me out my partners is not pro-town, it's role-fishing and a scum tactic). I will tell you that FOR SURE, Beck, Ivan, Acro, ICE, Greymarble, and Sleepy are NOT masons. If you want to lynch me now and find out for sure, then fine, but that should clear at least a bit up. I still think for sure that there are at least two scum on my wagon (I don't know how many there are, though) and regardless of whether I die now when someone hammers or to a NK, All the people who have jumped on me right now should be looked at. Greymarble is giving me a huge scumread because he has lurked all game like I did and basically brought up no case and just pushing for the biggest bunch lynch. I think he's the biggest priority for a lynch right now.

I got really frustrated on the first handful of pages at the total strawmanning and overreactions on me. It was uncalled for, and I'm 100% sure scum are a part of it because the cases aren't even town-sounding, it's just 'Let's hop on the nearest bandwagon.' I think Ivan may have been mistaken but he ended up helping out because he's brought scum candidates to life by starting my wagon...

If I'm lynched now, Greymarble, Acro, and Beck need to be strung up in the preceding days, no way around it, they're just opportunistic scum(At least 2 of 3 of them), I can tell just by the vibe I get.

Again, Don't ask me to out my mason partners, I refuse to do so, and chances are I'll call you scum for wanting to.