Newbie 1117(Town Wins)

[kad2361]

Newb card is one defense...

[ToastyToast]

The newb card isn't a great defense in a NEWBIE GAME. You know, where more than half the layer list is a newb?

Umm...Yes it is...
Muffin: I'm giving Cobalt null. I give myself a townread ^_^. But yes, I'd agree that kad's lynch is the least useful if we go through with it right now.

Its a poor defense in any situation, and in a newbie game its worse. because. its. for newbs. With that logic I can say "WHEEE everyone is a newbie so I'm not going to lynch them for doing scummy things!!! Lets just take out the IC and SE because they know what they're doing!" See my point? If you can distinguish b/w wut makes newb-scum and wut makes newb-town different, then its another story. But no one can seem to figure out which one kad is, can they?

[bvoigt]

What i am interested in also though is the speed the bus began rolling onto kad, there seemed to be little or no defence of him when this seems to be the closest to lynch we've taken someone and it's becoming an actual possibility but Bv did kind of stand by questioning as it happened.

That's right...I'm not supporting a kad lynch. I think that the votes for saying "ya, so vote me" are pretty opportunistic. It's not a scumtell to say that, because it's just plain bad for any alignment. It doesn't help him if he's scum.

[verydark]

Looking at verydark - he replaced Quackers, who had a single post with no content in it. I don't really have all too much of an issue with verydark, nothing really looks all that scummy in his posts, I just don't like his tunneling of BB. I want to look at verydark's scum meta before I decide on anything else here.

Could you clarify what "Scum Meta" is for me? I wouldn't really call my analysis of BB "tunneling", I replaced in kinda late, and did a blanket analysis of everyone, and decided he's my top pick for scum. It seems like many people agree with me. If this wagon on Kad catches on, I might jump on board, because it always rubs me the wrong way when a players responds with "so vote for me then". It's an easy out, that is both suspicious and anti-town.

The purpose of the game is to have a discussion and to actively scum hunt, if you are under scrutiny for your actions- it is your DUTY to defend yourself as a townie. The last thing I want is to lynch a townie because they were too lazy to actually play the game.

[Voidedmafia]

The newb card isn't a great defense in a NEWBIE GAME. You know, where more than half the layer list is a newb?

Umm...Yes it is...
Muffin: I'm giving Cobalt null. I give myself a townread ^_^. But yes, I'd agree that kad's lynch is the least useful if we go through with it right now.

Its a poor defense in any situation, and in a newbie game its worse. because. its. for newbs. With that logic I can say "WHEEE everyone is a newbie so I'm not going to lynch them for doing scummy things!!! Lets just take out the IC and SE because they know what they're doing!" See my point?

I see it, yes, but I'm more along the line of thinking of giving them the benefit of the doubt for awhile, and if they keep doing it intentionally, THEN ride them like hell for it.

If this was anything other than a Newbie, I wouldn't contest this point at all, mind.

If you can distinguish b/w wut makes newb-scum and wut makes newb-town different, then its another story. But no one can seem to figure out which one kad is, can they?

I must also agree with you here. Kad, if you really are town, you're not making this any easier for us.

[drmyshottyizsik]

.|Vote count 6|.

Haze-0
BBmolla-2(kad2361, verydark)
VoidedMafia-1(ToastyToast)
SomeRandomGuy-0
kad2361-3(SomeRandomGuy, BBmolla, Haze)

L-2

verydark-0
ToastyToast-2(bvoigt, zMuffinMan)
zMuffinMan-0
bvoigt-0

Not Voting-1(VoidedMafia)

With 9 alive it takes 5 votes to lynch

If there are any problems tell me.

Deadline is in (expired on 2011-06-30 09:00:00)

[bvoigt]

Looking at verydark - he replaced Quackers, who had a single post with no content in it. I don't really have all too much of an issue with verydark, nothing really looks all that scummy in his posts, I just don't like his tunneling of BB. I want to look at verydark's scum meta before I decide on anything else here.

Could you clarify what "Scum Meta" is for me? I wouldn't really call my analysis of BB "tunneling", I replaced in kinda late, and did a blanket analysis of everyone, and decided he's my top pick for scum. It seems like many people agree with me. If this wagon on Kad catches on, I might jump on board, because it always rubs me the wrong way when a players responds with "so vote for me then". It's an easy out, that is both suspicious and anti-town.

The purpose of the game is to have a discussion and to actively scum hunt, if you are under scrutiny for your actions- it is your DUTY to defend yourself as a townie. The last thing I want is to lynch a townie because they were too lazy to actually play the game.

If you have completed games as scum, that would be "scum meta."

What makes asking for votes suspicious? It's a bad play, undoubtedly, but I don't think it makes sense for scum. It's also kad's duty to defend himself if he's scum.

[zMuffinMan]

Oh right, this game was so far down the in road to rome I missed it. hmm

@Toasty,

What relevance does your whole point about the 'newb card' have? How does it at all relate to me having trouble reading the difference between scum-motivated behaviour and newbie behaviour? I could understand if the person himself was saying "I'm a newbie, forgive me!" but this is my own read here...

Do you think kad is scum?

Do you think Voided is scum? Or is there another reason your vote is still on Voided?

@verydark,

I noticed you flipped scum in your first game, it's something I wanted to look at to get an idea of your playstyle as scum, because your tunneling of BB is strange. That said, the major difference between this game and your scum game is the conviction/aggression behind your vote in this game. As much as I hate tunneling like this, it looks completely different from your scum game. Willing to write you off as town for now, although I'd like to see you expand your horizons a bit.

[bvoigt]

Guys, the deadline is under 2 days away. As I explained earlier, we need to lynch someone.

UNVOTE: ToastyToast
VOTE: BBmolla

I think this has more support.

[zMuffinMan]

meh, kad's my preference over BB. I'll probably move to kad some time in the next day, pending any responses that make me change my mind about someone.

[Voidedmafia]

BBmolla has been consistently scummy, yes, but kad has been making scummy waves through most of his posts. Like choosing between One or TTFAF as to the harder song (don't worry if you don't get the analogy. Basically, one song has one big hard part that is one of the hardest sections to hit, while the other is hard throughout with two VERY hard parts, only one of which was conisdered impossible). I suppose, when it comes down to it, I'd vote kad.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Oh man, i used to get 98% on TTFAF (on easy) always managed to mess up on one of the hard parts with one or two notes at some point, the rest perfect - that sucked but Dragonforce is my favourite band, so i kept on trying

Between BB and Kad:

I think Kad has acted scummily, added little to the game and coasted, he doesn't respond to points for the most part and has tried very little to up his game, seems anti town to me for that. Killing him gives little to go on in terms of information though where as for information gain BB would be a stronger candidate for lynching. I feel one of the two is more likely a scum target (if town) than the other and i'm not sure how this should factor into our decision making here. (can anyone give insight on that?)

[Voidedmafia]

FC'd easy, FC'd Medium, 99% hard, 689K Expert, I'm so boss, aren't I? Also, Dragonforce rocks. Townpoints for DF love and Auron love! *bro-fists SRG*

In any case, though, if you think BB would be the best candidate, I would suggest going for the one with the most information. Even if it's a mislynch, it can still help point you toward the scum.

With that in mind, though,

Vote: BBmolla

. I still feel that kad isn't going to be much help at this point, but we need information more at this point.

[bvoigt]

BB is at L-1.

[The Master Hand]

@Mod: I am voting kad, not voided

@Muffin: lol my vote has been on kad, thats mod error

My point about the newb card is that....pretty much everyone here is a newb. As such it can't be used to distinguish one person from another. Everyone should be treated as players on the same level, as all of them are learning the game at the same time. As such, kad is coming off as scum among a group of newbies, whereas other newbies are considered to be town. Saying "oh, they're just a noob"=then only the IC and SE actions should be considered.

[ToastyToast]

@Mod: I am voting kad, not voided

@Muffin: lol my vote has been on kad, thats mod error

My point about the newb card is that....pretty much everyone here is a newb. As such it can't be used to distinguish one person from another. Everyone should be treated as players on the same level, as all of them are learning the game at the same time. As such, kad is coming off as scum among a group of newbies, whereas other newbies are considered to be town. Saying "oh, they're just a noob"=then only the IC and SE actions should be considered.

Oops. Sorry shotty

[BBmolla]

Oh crap. Come back at L1. Defense time I guess.

The funny thing is, my defense at the L-2 earlier was very similar to Kad's defense in that I was just going to asked to be lynched. Why? Because I was obviously failing the town this first game and was offering nothing intelligent, so if it came to a point where I was the clear for some reason at a 3-Way LYLO it would end badly. I switched to Kad because I honestly believe he has less to offer the town than I do. And that could either be A. He's a bad town player. or B. He's scum.

In regards to my sudden raise in intelligence or whatever, I didn't read the wiki or anything I just finally had something to actually go off of which was Kad being a good lynch.

I'm blue, so you could call me a "safe lynch" or whatever, but I please ask those voting me to reconsider and vote Kad. Ask yourself, if it was a three way LYLO would you rather me be the clear or Kad?

[zMuffinMan]

hm. That changes what I thought I saw a bit. I need to reassess some things, but I still think BB is more likely town than scum.

[ToastyToast]

Unvote:Vote:kad

just in case
that means we have 2 people at L-1

[SomeRandomGuy]

hm. That changes what I thought I saw a bit. I need to reassess some things, but I still think BB is more likely town than scum.

I'm assuming you read his 'should i give my defence now' to mean he had a role to reveal? I did the same actually but that in itself didn't do anything to change my opinion.

I don't know, everything about the latter part of his game seems to say 'Ive got some input' - The LYLO talk, the indication prior to L-1 that he had a role (if both of us read it that way, surely others did?) The LYLO defence appeals to our logic but lets face it, BB if town would probably eat the lynch anyway vs most people in this game.

What I don't like at this point is that we've 2 people at L-1 (is that usual? i've not seen it before) and as unlikely as Kad is to claim, 2 claims in one day (if both happened to be town which is FAR less than certain) is a wee bit harmful.

Toasty, why did you feel the need to bring Kad to L-1 also? I mean in the situation BB and Kad are hammering the other one wouldn't be such an awful move.

[ToastyToast]

I WAS ALREADY ON HIM. MOD ERROR. If you're going to call someone out for that then ask Haze. My vote was immediately after kad was all like "lolvoteme"....read plz. Also, I don't think BB is scum at all, so there's no reason I can't bring the wagon of someone I have a scum-read on to L-1. also, BB is on kad, and kad is on BB. In other words, that move is impossible unless they're self-hammering

[SomeRandomGuy]

I WAS ALREADY ON HIM. MOD ERROR. If you're going to call someone out for that then ask Haze. My vote was immediately after kad was all like "lolvoteme"....read plz. Also, I don't think BB is scum at all, so there's no reason I can't bring the wagon of someone I have a scum-read on to L-1. also, BB is on kad, and kad is on BB. In other words, that move is impossible unless they're self-hammering

I really should have paid more attention to that - my bad!

[BBmolla]

I'm assuming you read his 'should i give my defence now' to mean he had a role to reveal? I did the same actually but that in itself didn't do anything to change my opinion.

Just going to address this. Originally I was extremely defensive, which was totally because of survival instincts. Then someone pointed out that my defensive stance was indicative of a PR, so I decided to play with that mentality. My thought process was that if I could soft claim hard enough, and I didn't get lynched, I could possibly fool the mafia into lynching me allowing our PR(s) to survive another day. I slipped in a few soft claims in some of my posts and I'm assuming some of you picked up on it.

Also, I'm already voting Kad, so I can not hammer on him.

[Voidedmafia]

*rubs temples*

BB, no one has given intent to hammer. If blue is supposed to mean VT, why did you claim without anyong saying they would hammer?

In fact, I'm pretty sure Bviogt included a couple paragraphs about "no claiming unless at L-1 with a hammer incoming" in his first couple of posts. Did you read that?

[BBmolla]

Was almost sure hammer was inc. Regardless, whether someone was going to hammer or not is pretty irrelevent; if I'm at L-1 why should I wait for someone to say "I'm going to hammer on you." when there is no clear reason why the lynch would possibly change? And Blue is VT.