Mini 1195: The Beehive Mystery (GAME OVER)

[Acronach]

and just like that you've made 1 of your mason/maf partners dead fucking obvious. lovely. let's just hope that if you are town maf are complete retards and don't notice the slip...

in any case, i'd like to see an Ivan lynch tomorrow depending on the N1 outcome

[Acronach]

if someone could please hammer, i'm off to bed.

[YankCane151]

I've been very discontent with the town's logic all game, at this point I have no more comment and I can only hope you use better logic on day 2 keeping my posts in mind.

[Da Koolzzy]

Don't hammer yet. I reserve the right to do so after I check a few things, and respond to some pending questions directed at me.

[YankCane151]

I'd just prefer everyone to look at my posts without saying "he's bussing" "he's distancing", etc. I Don't know where my 'slip' was, but I'm assuming you think I'm distancing. What I said was entirely true, those people are not masons. Considering I'm extra confident there's at least one scum in the people I listed, I don't think we have to worry about the scum killing that person, obviously.

[subgenius]

If you're telling the truth, that's probably way more information than you should have revealed. If we lynch you, and you come up mason, there's a good chance scum will be able to find one of your partners to NK this evening. I sure hope we've got more going for town than masons, because I have a feeling they're going to get dismantled pretty quickly.

[YankCane151]

At this point, I couldn't bare to watch Beck/Grey/Acro twisting around words to no avail. Of course, any time a mason comes up the scum can look at my posts and try to make connections, which is why lurking for the time I did worked in that favor, but in any event, If I catch even one scum by claiming the way I did, I'll be content.

[ICEninja]

A mason role would explain the defensiveness and the concern over being lynched. The main reason I've been so heavily supporting a Yank lynch wasn't his reaction to the pressure, but his reaction to the pressure being lifted. He vanished completely, and did zero scum hunting. The vote he came back with was worth less than his lurking.

I was initially inclined to believe it was a fake claim, but I don't think scum gains much from claiming mason at this point. The likelihood for a counter claim outing partners is minimal, and its a confirmable role, which is always more dangerous for scum to claim. Furthermore, I have evidence based on an ongoing game that I will not discuss that leads me to believe Yank's claim, considering the circumstances.

Yank has been scummy, to be perfectly honest I don't mind the fact that scum has to spend their night kills to dismantle the mason team.

Unvote

.

Right now I'm inclined to put my vote on Sleepy, but Sleepy took his vote off Yank before the claim which looks really good for him if Yank is indeed town. I'm willing to give Yank the benefit of the doubt currently, so I'm also going to run with the assumption (on the premise that Yank is town) that Sleepy is town as well.

Vote Acronach

for pushing for an early claim without putting down your vote (possibly attempting to stay safe) while already having been one of my solid scum reads for reasons posted earlier.

[subgenius]

which is why lurking for the time I did worked in that favor

Oh, so you were lurking, because you didn't want scum to establish connections to your mason partners, thereby making it easier to NK them. Then in your claim you let scum know that they don't have to worry about half the player list when they're looking for the other masons. I see.

I agree with ICE's point about the appeal of forcing scum to use their NK's to dismantle a mason team, but I'm still having a hard time buying this claim, and I'm too sleepy to really do much thinking on it at the moment. I'll sleep on it and see how things look in the morning.

[YankCane151]

I don't think Sleepy is very scummy, Apparently he was voting for me for the wrong reason, and he seems to be making reads everywhere which could lead to that kind of jumping around. Him falling off the wagon before I claimed, while WIFOM-wise could be twisted into saying he's being safe scum, is probably more indicative of a scumhunter.

[YankCane151]

which is why lurking for the time I did worked in that favor

Oh, so you were lurking, because you didn't want scum to establish connections to your mason partners, thereby making it easier to NK them. Then in your claim you let scum know that they don't have to worry about half the player list when they're looking for the other masons. I see.

I agree with ICE's point about the appeal of forcing scum to use their NK's to dismantle a mason team, but I'm still having a hard time buying this claim, and I'm too sleepy to really do much thinking on it at the moment. I'll sleep on it and see how things look in the morning.

It's a double thing though, because that also means I can't say for sure that Beck/Grey/Acro/Ivan/the others I Listed are town, and would help on a day 2. Of course there's some WIFOM for the scum too, because if I was playing smart, why would I risk outting my partners? I set it up so if it's necessary for them to claim they can, but NK-wise the scum will have to think.

I also wouldn't be totally calling those who hop off me innocent either. If we lynch elsewhere, scum have good reason to keep me alive to 1: Cover themselves from what I outlined earlier, and 2: Mislynch me on day 2 by setting up the NK and day 1 lynch to frame me.

There's certainly alot to think about, but I can say for sure that as soon as I pop up Mason, whether through day or night, Grey/Beck/Acro are the top targets.

[Da Koolzzy]

Firstly, though I have never been a mason here, some part of me twitches at the mention of a group of three masons in a game this size. Sounds too convenient. And as pressure on him grew, he definitely shifted into more of a flailing mode, grasping at straws, avoiding questions, and giving a rather convenient claim that gives way too much info to the mafia. If he DOES flip town, I thoroughly expect another mason to die tonight, thus negating the group entirely.

But that seems to me only a very slim possibility. Lets take this step by step.

One of the very first things he posted was the controversial jester suspicion. He knocks down suspicions of with a 'yeah, right' response. He claims votes on him are people twisting words, and while we all twist words sometimes, this was not a case of that.

His #47 is just loaded with OMG U R ALL SCUM, a position he has kept up to date.

Again, I don't see what was so explicit about Ivan's case. It wasn't clarified to me until #36, before then it was just IVP And sub being suspicious of me for word choice. I don't even know if Greymarble's is a joke or not, but if not then that's the most incorrect interpretation I've ever seen.

But hey, worse comes to worse and IVP, sub and Grey are leading the mislynch bandwagon and they die the following days, whatever it takes to win,

I just don't see how they have actual cases past #36(which I defended myself against, but lo and behold, Marble ignored that post completely.)

It looks to this head also like Ivan has been bussing him, and Yank responded vindictively in his #49.

I'm definitely seeing some AtE in his following posts.

As suspicion lightens, he goes AWOL here, lurking in his little corner, trying to avoid notice, and mistakes like that first post.

He returns in #164 with an attempt at scumhunting, asking for clarification, once again going after Ivan, the only person he has attacked this game, though he has thrown suspicion on Beck as well, both people who have pushed against him first.

He then vanishes again until #362, where he pops back in to say he's been getting TOWN reads from Ivan, whom he was (relatively)grilling earlier for not responding to his questions!

He seems eager to claim in #372, as if he has a falseclaim prepared and ready to drop.

When he claims, he immediately turns and drops three names of people we should waste our next three days lynching. He throws up his hands in AtE, saying 'Oh well, I hope town does better later', which is a blatant scum tactic, a last minute attempt to appear town.


It's hammah time. Or not, since someone unvoted. You have my permission to hammer, as I write up responses to those questions directed at me.

VOTE: Yank

[subgenius]

Ok, I thought it through. I don't know if Yank is telling the truth or not, but I don't think we should lynch him either way. As people start dying off, we'll find ourselves in one of several situations, all of which are pretty decent.

If Yank is telling the truth:
1)By the 3rd day, chances are one of the masons will have likely died, thereby confirming Yank
2)If no masons have died, the masons will be proportionally far far more powerful later in the game. They can claim at that point and make scum hunting way easier.

If Yank is lying, it will become quite obvious by the 3rd day at the latest. We can lynch him then.

unvote

I'll figure out who I'm switching my vote to tomorrow.

[ICEninja]

Sub is correct.

Everyone needs to get their votes off of Yank right now. He could be the scummiest player in the game by far and not lynching him would still be the best play.

Once again, I have evidence that I cannot share due to a game ongoing that fully supports the validity of his claim, especially considering the situation, and I will be happy to explain to everyone exactly what I mean postgame.

[YankCane151]

Look, I'm a bit new, but I don't exactly see how all my posts are huge 'AtE's and that I'm bussing so and so and OMGUSing and that I've basically done every other acronym on the wiki.

Da koolzy: If I get lynched, THEN what will you think of my suspicions? Are they still invalid because I'm suspicious to you? Also, the Jester thing was a misunderstanding as I said before, and I don't see it as a valid case against me. There is so much WIFOM in the case against me saying that 'Yank is scum because he thinks there could be a 3rd party, only scum would do that, why would a townie say that?" that I can't even begin to understand why. Of course I'm leery and think alot of you are scummy. The only people I'm sure are town are the other masons. Past that, I'm as clueless as the rest of the town. Don't get all high and mighty because you are 'sure' I am scum and that me not being entirely sure where to go(Grey is still the scummiest person I see at this point) is a TOTAL SCUM READ and that I'm horrible and bussing everyone by not being sure. Only the scum are sure of who's who's to that extent.

[Da Koolzzy]

Oh you SONOVA- I hate my computer. All that postage lost.

So. I somehow missed two pages when reading up. I am now having trouble finding the questions directed at me. And it is later than I thought it was. I will not unvote right now, because I still happen to think I am right. We'll see what I think tomorrow, with a fresh mind, and reading through concerns, and seeing what my other head thinks. For now, I need sleep. >.<

[Ivan the Pleasant]

Hello everyone. As per Ivan the Fool's request, I will sign this post as

Ivan the Terrible.

In the future I hope that this will be less necessary.

unvote

I appreciate what Ivan the Fool is trying to do, but I do not support his acting entirely unilaterally, and since I am back now I am removing our vote.

Personally I am not as much a fan of a Tommy wagon, so for the moment we are abandoning that.

vote: Subgenius

As you might have guessed, it was me who originally voted subgenius, and I'll tell you why. You all want to lynch Yank, which is cute and all, and you go right ahead. However, I find Subgenius to be a better option.

This is my 2nd game on site so no but if you have been playing here since 2008, so I'm taking an assumption you are a good player

Unfortunately, I've only played four games since I joined, and I've been on the winning team in exactly none of them, so I'm not sure your assumption is a good one.

Yank isn't looking too hot right now. Between his equivocal opinion on Beck and now his lame defense against Ivan, which consists of little more than an accusation of twisting words, I'm not seeing much from him. It's only the second page, but I've got a bad feeling about Yank.

Also:

You're voting for me because you guys are able to twist words? That's convenient.

"That's convenient" seems to imply that you think Ivan is up to something shady. Do you think he's purposely trying to twist your words because he's scum, or are you merely trying to avoid answering his accusations?

This post, followed by this one:

What defense? Ivan pretty much said he's keeping his conclusions to himself, and still hasn't stated a case against me other than me saying "At the Same time." So yes, it feels to me that he could be opportunistic scum. I can't have a lame defense if I don't know what I'm defending myself from, and I'm not going to sit here and defend my word choice. What I said regarding the jester is exactly what I thought(Didn't know they weren't in normal formats), that Beck may have been trying to hard for a lynch. I don't see how I'm 'evenhanded', and I thought what Beck was saying early game was anti-town and weird. Past that, I don't see your case.

You gave Beck a pass on his first post, because you thought he was potentially a jester. Now that you know that is impossible, what do you think of his first post?

strike me as very odd. He is clearly building suspicion of Yank, yet he is clinging to his random vote. There are two things that bother me here. The first is that he would maintain his random vote rather than applying pressure. If he is scum it is most likely because he doesn't feel under any pressure to change his vote, and he wants to generally go with the flow. Does that sound like Subgenius so far? I think so. If he is town, then he is asking questions and trying very hard to look town, but doing this without using his vote. These things are in conflict, therefore I find it unlikely that he is town. For those who will ask, I believe he is trying to look town based on the leading yet pleasant quality of his questions. They do not have the teeth of pressure or the certainty of suspicion. They are too nice. Scum are generally very nice people, and honestly I couldn't see Subgenius-scum playing any other way.

I will post more later.

[Ivan the Pleasant]

EBWOP: The second thing that bothers me about those posts is how he is slowly building up his suspicion of Yank. This is less of an issue for me as he didn't actually vote yank until late in the day. However, it simulates a townie slowly coming to a conclusion that can be cited later. It looks to me like he avoided the Yank wagon for most of the day because he felt he didn't

have

to be on it in order for it to go through, which is always an attractive position for scum. Late in the day, he votes Yank for a fairly convenient reason in a very innocuous way. That bothers me. A lot.

[Beck]

jesus christ, if yank is really town mason, than hands down has to be the worst player ever.

I also lol'd at his comments about me and the fact that he is scum hunting (laughable) and not riding bandwagons like me (again laughable)

Yank, did you totally miss where Ivan put Acro at L-3 for basically no reason at all when he was making valid points on you?

you say I am not scum hunting than you clearly have not read the thread.

I'm not changing my vote, I don't believe the mason claim at all, especially since I just searched masons through some completed games and can't find a single game with 3 masons, I found 8 games where there were only 2 masons.

Nothing that Yank has done has shown he is pro-town at all in my opinion, so for now I am leaving my vote on Yank.

he can not like my words about bussing or whatever but that is honestly what it looks like to me.

[Captain Spoon]

The mason claim is true

it would be suicidal for scum to do it

If he is a mason he'd be killed by scum in due time anyways

Votes on Yank ought to come off and go on a nice Acronach wagon (Personally, we prefer SK, but we're trusting ICE for now and Acro is a fair wagon too)

[Beck]

unvote, vote: Ivan

Worst townie ever if you are mason, nothing you have done makes any sense if you are town.

Going to my scum pick number 2

[Captain Spoon]

If anything, masons often play bad since they feel they can fall back on their mason claim

[Beck]

Why am I retarded, I can't figure out how to subscribe to this thread

Also does anyone know if this site is tapatalk enabled?

P.edit until we have a mason flip, I'm still not believing the claim. Its more believable now you spoke up but I don't really trust you either.

[Beck]

Happy anniversary mod

[Captain Spoon]

I would like to point out, if we really do have a 3 Mason team going here, that the scumteam(s) must be pretty powerful.

Discussing what to do next with my other head.