Newbie 1116 -- Game Over

[Zachrulez]

Aside: What's the record for longest day one in terms of pages?

This game is in the area of being one of the longest, give or take a few pages.

[Grimmjow]

So, Zach, like VE said, there's several pages worth of "WTF IS THIS SHIT AHHHH" that you can just breeze over (namely almost every post the person you replaced posted), so it really wont take too long to get caught up. Also, I'd really appreciate it if you tried your best to get as far into the game as possible. Since we are so close to the deadline, if you are scum you can just sit back and not put forth any real contributions and just breeze through D1 without suspicion.

[Workdawg]

Neither of my first two newbie games made it to 30 pages TOTAL... this is pretty ridiculous.

Anyway...

@Cobbler

You think TWO people are going to hop on my wagon and hammer me down with a week left to the extended deadline? I have to say, you're vote/unvote/vote/unvote is pretty suspicious to me (and would even be if it weren't ON me).

You seem extremely reluctant to vote for me and I wonder if it's because you know I'm town and you don't want to look like the scum who hopped on the wagon to lynch the townie. (scum like to be in the middle of the wagon, typically)

I'm the only other wagon right now, so if you're scum then you seem to be between a rock and a hard place. Vote for me and be caught lynching a townie, or find another wagon (which would require you to lead off against someone else)... or not vote at all, I suppose.

[Nobody Special]

Aside: What's the record for longest day one in terms of pages?

This game is in the area of being one of the longest, give or take a few pages.

We're already in the top 5; I'll be updating the wiki during Night One.

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 1.16

Cobblerfone - 2 - Grimmjow, Workdawg
Workdawg - 2 - The Fonz, VisceraEyes
bigAl - 1 - cymru96
cymru96 - 1 - Tomie Uzumaki

Not Voting: bigAl, Zachrulez, Cobblerfone

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Deadline: July 5 -- (expired on 2011-07-05 11:00:00)

V/LA: ...

[Grimmjow]

Ok, after reading through the past... 10 pages, I've decided my vote on Cobbler is well placed. I sat back and tried to step out of my Cobbler vote to look into the Workdawg case and, though I can understand some of the reasons behind his wagon, he doesn't really SCREAM scum to me like Cobbler seem to be doing.

Adding onto my last wall-o-text against Cobbler, I noticed these things.

dont do that

I swear if you are bored scum I will not feel right at all about my win as town. Especially if it turns out to be VE who's you're partner

Seems like you're trying to subliminally make yourself seem town with "about my win as town" while simultaneously throwing suspicion onto VE.

(which is the most likely partner at this point if you ARE scum).

I know you explained that you thought his last post on pg 29 was scummy, but I just don't see it. It's like my post later, where I said that either way he was playing against his win condition and that he was being disrespectful to other people. VE saying that it was bad for his TEAM is essentially saying the exact same, but in more specific terms. I've got a gut feeling Blue/Zach will flip town. So this makes me even more suspicious of you because I feel like you're trying to frame Blue and VE with this.

You know what, blue seems to have basically admitted to being scum in his last post.

VOTE: bluepokemon

This vote seem incredibly opportunistic to me. Especially since you showed little/no suspicion of Blue up until this point and then suddenly he claims scum when you and everyone else knows Blue was a freaking idiot. Yeah. No.

Eh? bigAl, you're the IC, is this right? Because this makes no sense. How is taking positions while giving reasons a scumtell instead of null? Or did I completely forget what converse means?

And again, buddying up to the IC.

I just hope my realization was wrong.

Seriously, this again? It really seems like you're trying to prevent yourself from getting lynched by saying "I think I have really valuable information for the town, so don't kill me!"

@Cobbler In your post 760, you vote for me and then say "I just hope my realization was wrong."... implying that you hope I flip town. Why would you ever hope the person you are voting for flips town?

No, my realization was that you seemed to have been giving power role tells. Thus I hope I'm wrong about you being a power role. But to tell the truth, I think that if you

were

a power role, you would've gotten that hint by now. Seriously. (This is also why I described my read on you as "swingy")

And this is your reasoning? I don't buy it. If you thought he was a PR and you're town, you'd stay the hell away from his lynch. Even if it were just a suspicion and it could be seen either as a PR or scum move. If it were me, I'd keep away, but I'd definitely keep an eye on him to see if he does anything really scummy to me. I certainly wouldn't vote him while simultaneously saying "Oh, I hope I'm wrong and you're not a PR." Especially if he does flip a PR, this would make you look less suspicious. "Hey, look, I thought he was a PR and I was right! I'm really good at picking out peoples' roles/alignments, so don't kill me 'cuz I can help find scum!" Right. I may be stretching this a bit (I can even see this stretch), but it's still a possibility. And if I thought of it, someone else could have thought of it too.

There's bigAl the player, then there's bigAl the IC.

And then there's bigAl the townie-IC and bigAl the scummer-IC. You can't let it slide the fact that he's the IC. What that does say is that, as an IC, he's more talented in covering up scumminess, so you should scrutinize him even more. At least that's how I see it.

Al, Grimm, will you come into the light?

...original scumhunting points vs CF just when I was getting worried about him

Fonz, I'm not changing my stance. Sorry, buddy.

Vote: BigAl- You havent really done much for a while and I have nothing that makes me say town and I get some scum vibes.

Any specific vibes or just general vibes?

Cy is big on the OMGUS votes - a hard habit to get over.

I don't really see this so much as and OMGUS vote as it is a "let's put a little pressure on him" vote along with newbiness and his "scum vibes."
Are you trying to down-play a potential townie's opinions and attempts to play the game, sir? That seems scummy to me.

@Cobbler

You think TWO people are going to hop on my wagon and hammer me down with a week left to the extended deadline? I have to say, you're vote/unvote/vote/unvote is pretty suspicious to me (and would even be if it weren't ON me).

/agree

You seem extremely reluctant to vote for me and I wonder if it's because you know I'm town and you don't want to look like the scum who hopped on the wagon to lynch the townie. (scum like to be in the middle of the wagon, typically)

I'm the only other wagon right now, so if you're scum then you seem to be between a rock and a hard place. Vote for me and be caught lynching a townie, or find another wagon (which would require you to lead off against someone else)... or not vote at all, I suppose.

/agree

So yeah, my vote stays.

Can anyone give me a list of reasons why WD is scum along with explanations? I may just be missing something, but I'm not seeing it.

[Grimmjow]

Aside: What's the record for longest day one in terms of pages?

This game is in the area of being one of the longest, give or take a few pages.

We're already in the top 5; I'll be updating the wiki during Night One.

Uhm, yay?

[Nobody Special]

Sort of, but at the same time, not so much.

[Tomie Uzumaki]

Am I still here :S?
Sorry, my computer decided to bail on me ._. Though I need some sleep first >.<

[Cobblerfone]

I know you explained that you thought his last post on pg 29 was scummy, but I just don't see it. It's like my post later, where I said that either way he was playing against his win condition and that he was being disrespectful to other people. VE saying that it was bad for his TEAM is essentially saying the exact same, but in more specific terms. I've got a gut feeling Blue/Zach will flip town. So this makes me even more suspicious of you because I feel like you're trying to frame Blue and VE with this.

It was the apparent pleading that got to me.

This vote seem incredibly opportunistic to me. Especially since you showed little/no suspicion of Blue up until this point and then suddenly he claims scum when you and everyone else knows Blue was a freaking idiot. Yeah. No.

It should be noted that VI =/= town. Even now I'm still no longer sure of blue's (now Zach's) alignment.

And again,

buddying up

asking a question to the IC to get a fair answer.

And then there's bigAl the townie-IC and bigAl the scummer-IC. You can't let it slide the fact that he's the IC. What that does say is that, as an IC, he's more talented in covering up scumminess, so you should scrutinize him even more. At least that's how I see it.

The IC has to answer at least mostly accurately. He can let some things out like a certain thing is only good in a certain situation. (if I interpret the IC page correctly)

[bigAl]

The thing that cobbler said about getting tired of the day seems suspicious... are you just trying to end it to take the pressure away from you?

I also approve of this. That vote didn't ring well for me either. Cobbler can't seem to make up his mind. I know we need to make a lynch in the next few days, but "I'll do what everyone else is doing" isn't a good excuse.

Also, a lot of people seem quiet lately... I understand that real life happens sometimes but I'm always a little bit sceptical when people stop posting right before the deadline - it allows a lynch they're hoping for happen without incriminating themselves. Just an observation.

Cy is big on the OMGUS votes - a hard habit to get over.

I don't really see this so much as and OMGUS vote as it is a "let's put a little pressure on him" vote along with newbiness and his "scum vibes." Are you trying to down-play a potential townie's opinions and attempts to play the game, sir? That seems scummy to me.

I dunno - I point out that his argument doesn't hold much water in #723 and a couple days later he switches to me for mostly unspecified "vibes". Maybe I'm using OMGUS wrong, but it seemed a bit retaliatory to me.

[Grimmjow]

I dunno - I point out that his argument doesn't hold much water in #723 and a couple days later he switches to me for mostly unspecified "vibes". Maybe I'm using OMGUS wrong, but it seemed a bit retaliatory to me.

I can agree that it does seem a bit "retaliatory," but cy's been playing better lately, so I'm not willing to jump to an OMGUS conclusion. I take his "vibes" the same way I take my "gut feelings." I'm more willing to think this is more of a "I've got a gut feeling and I'm a noob so I'm not really good at picking out why" than an OMGUS vote.

@cy: can you go back through Al's ISO and try to figure out more why you have these "vibes"?

[Grimmjow]

So I'm in the process of going back and re-reading the whole thread (I know, I already want to blow my brains out), but I jumped in a random page and this caught my eye and I wanted to make one completely-off-the-wall-and-no-baring-on-the-game-whatsoever comment.

All I see as 'points' against me was his insistence that I had MULTIPLE oversights/misinterpretations/exaggerations/whatever (I got to type it again! ^^)

I lol'd again at this.

[bigAl]

Let's not start that again. :(

Third on the bandwagon, here I come. Directing power roles, flip-floppy votes, lack of any solid suspects for a while. The last couple days have confirmed it more for me.

Vote: Cobblerfone

L-2.

[Only

sixty six

sixty five more posts to set the record. Let's not try to.]

[VisceraEyes]

I'm starting to get a queesy feeling about Cobbler...and I agree with most of your points on Cobbler Grimm...except the bit about buddying up with the IC. They're here for a reason, as the SEs are. Town not using them because "they can't trust them" is foolish. People should ask questions of the IC MORE often if they don't trust him, not less.

At any rate, I'm willing to put Cobbler to L-1 if everyone else is willing. Zach can reread the thread during the night phase, and if we have 5 willing voters, there's no reason we can't say piss on that record and see if we can get this game moving again.

Anyone object?

[cymru96]

My vote wasn't retaliatory I just needed to see how you would react because I havent got much on you, town or scum.

[bigAl]

Fair enough cy. I don't object, but it would be good to hear from Tomie and Fonz before the day is out.

[The Fonz]

Al, Grimm, will you come into the light?

...original scumhunting points vs CF just when I was getting worried about him

Fonz, I'm not changing my stance. Sorry, buddy.

Grimm, that part of the post was in response to the fact that you seemed to have some suspicion of WD, and yet were voting for the bad playstyle wagon. I'm perfectly happy with your Cobblerfone vote, both because he's really scummy (Workdawg and he are really close, and I'm not entirely sure which way I'm going to jump just yet) and because it was original scumhunting. Both of these are good wagons.

[Cobblerfone]

Okay, this is the second time that VE has jumped on a bandwagon. Both times he says something like, "I'm starting to agree." But this is just really suspicious. Yes I understand that the lynch will probably be between Workdawg and myself but he's jumped on pretty much everyone except maybe the Fonz and Tomie. What are your reads now VE? Can Workdawg and I be scum together? If one of us is town does the other have to be scum?

By the way, here's some posts I dug up:

Any hit to town is a big hit, especially in a game with 9 players. Do you realize that with 8 players, it STILL takes 5 votes to lynch someone? Those are BIG percentages my guy. Lynching a townie is NOT an option...especially since we're on Majority Vote mode with THREE WEEKS to make a final decision. The fact that you think of losing me as an acceptable loss is...telling.

An appeal to emotion when he wasn't even in danger. (and wrong as the only way we get 8 players is if we vote no-lynch which was what he was doing at the time.)

Okay, in the name of no longer being in the 'Not Voting' line,

VOTE: bluepokemon1234

Barring some kind of scum-claim, and unless someone can provide sufficient reason for switching, this is my final vote.

He didn't hold up to this. (Heck blue scumclaimed!)

Bandwagon vote on Workdawg: 144
Bandwagon foreshadowing on me: 814

Welp, I guess if you're going to lynch me that's all I have to say. I would also to here from Tomie, and Zach as well though. If bigAl, Workdawg, or VE gets to L-1 I'll ask for a claim and maybe hammer. (I'm less weary Fonz now, especially because of his most recent post.)

[The Fonz]

By the way, here's some posts I dug up:

Any hit to town is a big hit, especially in a game with 9 players. Do you realize that with 8 players, it STILL takes 5 votes to lynch someone? Those are BIG percentages my guy. Lynching a townie is NOT an option...especially since we're on Majority Vote mode with THREE WEEKS to make a final decision. The fact that you think of losing me as an acceptable loss is...telling.

An appeal to emotion when he wasn't even in danger. (and wrong as the only way we get 8 players is if we vote no-lynch which was what he was doing at the time.)

1) It's not an appeal to emotion.
2) Saying that someone is 'an acceptable loss' to justify the possibility of voting them is genuinely scummy.

He didn't hold up to this. (Heck blue scumclaimed!)

Changing your mind isn't a scumtell.

[Workdawg]

I have to say, I actually get a little bit of a town vibe from Cobbler's post above (818). I think if I were scum I'd try more likely try to rally votes against the opposing wagon than point out potentially scummy things someone else did.

On the other hand, he seems to be throwing in the towel pretty early, which gives me more of a scummy vibe.

I don't think it outweighs the evidence brought against him though, so my vote will stand.

[Zachrulez]

So in light of the fact that my predecessor effectively roleclaimed, I find it important at this point to ask everyone what their read of this player slot is.

[The Fonz]

He already tried that, WD. It didn't work.

Zach, your predecessor didn't roleclaim effectively or otherwise. I also think he was very likely town.

[Zachrulez]

Yeah... he did.

I wish i had some kind of power being a normal townie is boring.

And it was picked up on too.

[Zachrulez]

bluepokemon is WHY we've been contending with BOTH of those things. It's true, I don't so much think he's scum...per se. But if he played ANY better, if he posted ANY more clearly...I'd be CERTAIN he's scum, for these reasons.

With bluepokemon gone, we should have a decent environment to sniff out the enemies of the state.

I just couldn't let this gem go unquoted.