Neon Genesis Evangelion Mafia (Game Over)

[SpyreX]

I'd guess scum exist within the bloc in the same ratio that they exist in any randomly selected sample of players.

Well then, good to see there's no more talk on this front.

I seriously think you are town stoking the flames that will end only a single way if you keep at it.

[Kdub]

Day 1 - Vote Count #27

Amrun (2)

- LobsterCatapult, Candle Jack

Kawaii (0)

-

GreyICE (1)

- StevieT92

Antifinity (0)

-

Candle Jack (0)

-

populartajo (0)

-

Iecerint (0)

-

Nocmen (1)

- Antifinity

Surye (1)

- malthusis

Celebloki (0)

-

malthusis (7)

- ace5993, Lady Lambdadelta, GreyICE, ZeL1nK, Surye, Celebloki, Nocmen

Starbuck (0)

-

ace5993 (2)

- GhostWriter, Iecerint

drewoftherushes (0)

-

ZeL1nK (0)

-

StevieT92 (1)

- drewoftherushes

GhostWriter (0)

-

SpyreX (0)

-

Kast (0)

-

vollkan (0)

-

Pomegranate (0)

-

LobsterCatapult (5)

- Amrun, populartajo, Kast, Pomegranate, SpyreX

Lady Lambdadelta (0)

-

No Lynch (0)

-

Not Voting (3)

- Kawaii, vollkan, Starbuck

23 votes available, 12 votes needed to lynch

Deadline is July 18, ~ 10 am PDT

[Kawaii]

@Kast: Any idea of who the scum on the wagon could be, or is it just a vibe you get?

Bad timing, I know. But

No access until July 4th

. Maybe we should pressure my other head to hold it down.

It's hard to jump into the mix when I don't want to address an issue that's been resolves in later pages.

[Kast]

I seriously think you are town stoking the flames that will end only a single way if you keep at it.

I'm aware I'm probably bruising egos. I'm assuming most players are good enough to separate a bruised ego from a voting decision (if they aren't then all the more reason for calling that out). I appreciate the concern, but I only seeing it end

badly

for me if I hit a nerve on hiding-scum and they decide to NK me for it. And that's not actually that bad.

@Kawaii-
Your question is vague. By wagon are you referencing the "town voting bloc", the LC wagon, the malthusis wagon, something else?

Preferred Lynch:
Nocmen
ace5993
LobsterCatapult
malthusis

Acceptable Lynch:
Candle Jack
Lady Lambdadelta

This is my lynch preference. Also, I'm dropping drew down one category.
-At this point, any participation beats the alternative, so feel free to jump in to any issue and proceed from there.
-Could you sign heads please?

[Nocmen]

Kast, why dropping drew down one category? There were no posts from him in between the two lists of rankings, I'm curious why you changed your mind on him.

Also, Semi VLA through monday. I'll be on daily, but only once/twice a day.

[populartajo]

Posting from phone, big post tonight.

[Kdub]

Antifinity has been prodded.

[Iecerint]

I've silently changed my mind about Nocmen over the past several pages. I think he's town.

[Iecerint]

Can't really remember why tbh, but I remember feeling pretty good about it.

[GreyICE]

I seriously think you are town stoking the flames that will end only a single way if you keep at it.

I'm aware I'm probably bruising egos. I'm assuming most players are good enough to separate a bruised ego from a voting decision (if they aren't then all the more reason for calling that out). I appreciate the concern, but I only seeing it end

badly

for me if I hit a nerve on hiding-scum and they decide to NK me for it. And that's not actually that bad.[/quote]
Kast. Stop. Now.

You continually throughout this entire game have taken the stance that anyone who vocally disagrees with you and criticizes your reads or play is suffering from a 'bruised ego' / 'is a bad player' / 'is arrogant' / 'doesn't like being taken down a peg.' This is from our first disagreement on page 1.

As of this post, I am no longer considering this a town tell or a null tell. Every post after this it is a scum tell, and I can and WILL go to the wall to see you dead for it. If you don't like that, fuck you.

If you think the town block contains scum, say who it is and why you suspect them, and who you think is town. If you think that our reads are so bad that our bloc is no better than throwing darts at a dartboard blindfolded, explain why. If you think that we're off, then say why we're off.

Do not sit here scumplaining that everyone who doesn't like you is suffering from a 'bruised ego.' It IS scummy as shit. It IS using pure Appeal to Emotion. You are NOT YamiChan. You are NOT Yosarian. Stop pretending that everyone who disagrees with you is a bully suffering from a bruised ego, and start responding to what we are saying.

Line in the sand Kast. We will not be discussing it after this, we will not be discussing it in response to this. You will simply stop doing it now, and start responding in a consistent, logical manner with no AtE about egos and how people don't like you because you're right etc. etc.

I will consider this a scumtell from this point forward. I will push you to the wall over it. I will rip you until you bleed. I will not let up. And you will go down. And if you're town, this will NOT help the town any. If you're scum, then try faking more logical arguments, because every appeal to emotion is rejected.

[Candle Jack]

@Spyrex-
I'd guess scum exist within the bloc in the same ratio that they exist in any randomly selected sample of players. I don't have any particular scum reads on individual members of your/LLD's proclaimed town bloc; most of you have been playing in a pretty neutral/null range.

I specifically named LLD because she is blatantly exemplifying all the negative aspects of any self-declared townie-voting-bloc and is one of the ardent attack dogs of anyone who even hints at disagreement. I'm specifically addressing LLD more in depth than others because she posted a blatantly untrue and clearly unthought through WTF?!?! dismissal of my catch up post. Then instead of being honest and admitting her mistake, she tried pushing BS misrepresentations and anti-town stalling/distractions.

Does that mean she is scum? Not necessarily. She certainly hasn't been as scummy as ace, LC, Noc, or Malthusis. What I've pointed out is more secondary tells; identification of what could potentially be scummy behavior but does not in and of itself indicate that LLD is particularly likely to be scum. I also want to be clear that LLD is NOT the sole participant in such behavior. Part of my focus on LLD is simply a penchant for engaging people who try to engage with BS.

That reminds me to post/update my lynch preference ordering (entries within each heading do not indicate ordinal preference)

Preferred Lynch:

Nocmen
ace5993
LobsterCatapult
malthusis

Acceptable Lynch:

Candle Jack
Lady Lambdadelta
drewoftherushes

Ambivalent:

GreyICE
Antifinity
populartajo
Kawaii
Surye
Celebloki
ZeL1nK
Pomegranate
GhostWriter

Beats No Lynch:

vollkan
SpyreX
Iecerint
Starbuck
Amrun
StevieT92

Loses to No Lynch:

If you have anyone in this category other than yourself or perhaps a mason buddy, then you're failing at mafia

Kast

P-Edit: @LC-
You are assigning a lot of motive to my posts that just isn't there and just isn't supported by what I've actually posted.
I'll try to take some time tomorrow to re-outline my reasons for suspecting you. At the moment, it's pretty similar to the thoughts I originally listed for why I listed you as probable scum. If you have an objection with me listing you as scum, please address the reasons I provided.

This post was not made by a townie.

Sadly, I'm low on time at the moment, so the full case on Kast will have to wait. Some of the points: the continued attempts to discredit ANY alternative playstyle, particularly when his playstyle is clearly in the minority and most of the players he's attacking for alternative playstyle are obvtown, is scummy as all hell. That kind of list posted above looks like a scum list of reads to me (flashes of Medieval Mafia). And Kast's continued push on Nocmen has reached the point where I'm convinced that he doesn't actually care about Nocmen's alignment. And that's not even a complete list.

Voting block, it's dogpiling time.

Unvote, Vote: Kast

[Candle Jack]

- Tar

(I keep forgetting this is the hydra account, I've had no reason to log in with main for a few days.)

[Kast]

@Noc-
I looked back at my list this morning and couldn't recall why drew was in that category in the first place. I moved him to reflect that.

@GreyICE-

that anyone who vocally disagrees with you and criticizes your reads or play is suffering from a 'bruised ego' / 'is a bad player' / 'is arrogant' / 'doesn't like being taken down a peg.' This is from our first disagreement on page 1.

If by anyone, you mean GreyICE and Candlejack, then you are correct that I have criticized this many times. It stands as true now as it did when I first posted it. If you are extending this to multiple other players, then please back up your claim.

CJ has been the primary player using the crap-logic tack that anyone disagreeing with him is scum (I was his sole exception that he tried milking for credit, until now).

@CJ-
-Disagreeing with someone's playstyle is not a scumtell. If you dislike my criticism of your playstyle, how about addressing my criticisms instead of just saying "anyone who questions me is scum".
-Clarify what you dislike about my list of reads (aside from your irrational devotion to Noc). How does it look like a scum list? Content, format, timing, consistency...?
-Calling me scummy for

disagreeing

with your townread that you've claimed is based on spotting a tell/crumb/softclaim is ridiculous. If you think any of the points on Noc are bad, then address those. As yet, you've gone from saying you saw something that shows Noc is town, to just saying Noc is obv-town, to saying anyone who even suspects Noc is scummy for suspecting him.

@Mod-
V/LA until Tuesday.

V/LA acknowledged
-K

[StevieT92]

I don't think Kast's criticisms of the voting bloc are scummy, in fact I agree with them. However, GI makes a good point that people aren't really criticizing Kast because he is "bruising egos" and that Kast's attempt to play it off as that is scummy.

I still don't think Kast is the right lynch today, however. Who is? Ace is. For lurking and his incredibly scummy posts. I'm actually surprised there isn't a larger wagon on him, and we all seem to be really divided over who we can lynch. Ace seems like the obvious candidate to me.

I still think GI is scummy, but my vote there is completely useless, so I will put it to good use.

Unvote, Vote: Ace

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Unvote; Vote: Kast

[SpyreX]

ITT: Stewie throws down a bus vote.

Guys I'm still fairly confident in Kast town. Dont bite.

[ZeL1nK]

Not seeing Kast-scum atm. As irritable as some people seem to find his playstyle, #673 gives me town vibes. The explanations around the voting bloc and LLD suspicion made perfect sense to me. Like I don't agree with it, but I don't see why everyone is making a big deal out of it. His CJ suspicion is craptastic, but I can see where he's coming from.

[GreyICE]

Okay, Kast, warned was warned.

Vote: Kast

Not unvoting Kast until he's dead, SpyreX.

[SpyreX]

Its still a really bad call but I'm not going to RAGE against it.

[Iecerint]

I could switch to Kast at deadline. I think he and Ace are both scum.

[Candle Jack]

@Noc-
I looked back at my list this morning and couldn't recall why drew was in that category in the first place. I moved him to reflect that.

@GreyICE-

that anyone who vocally disagrees with you and criticizes your reads or play is suffering from a 'bruised ego' / 'is a bad player' / 'is arrogant' / 'doesn't like being taken down a peg.' This is from our first disagreement on page 1.

If by anyone, you mean GreyICE and Candlejack, then you are correct that I have criticized this many times. It stands as true now as it did when I first posted it. If you are extending this to multiple other players, then please back up your claim.

CJ has been the primary player using the crap-logic tack that anyone disagreeing with him is scum (I was his sole exception that he tried milking for credit, until now).

Uh, really now? ANYONE who disagrees? Nocmen case maybe, but that's because I'm pretty confident on that Nocmen tell and the downside is large enough that it goes through over my dead body*. Other than that, I don't see it. Examples, please.

@CJ-
-Disagreeing with someone's playstyle is not a scumtell. If you dislike my criticism of your playstyle, how about addressing my criticisms instead of just saying "anyone who questions me is scum".

Strawman. The core problems I have with you are very, very simple: You are attempting to discredit obvtown players and distracting the town from actual scumhunting by focusing attention on the voting bloc (which I'm pretty sure has fewer scum than you'd get by random distribution of the block). Both are scum behavior. Hell, even on the "criticism of players" front I find your interactions with GreyICE much, much worse than your interactions with me - note that I had a town read on you until the point that you started attacking the voting block the way you did.

-Clarify what you dislike about my list of reads (aside from your irrational devotion to Noc). How does it look like a scum list? Content, format, timing, consistency...?

Hard to clarify a gut read, though I'm pretty sure the list of players in the "ambivalent" category has a lot to do with it.

-Calling me scummy for

disagreeing

with your townread that you've claimed is based on spotting a tell/crumb/softclaim is ridiculous. If you think any of the points on Noc are bad, then address those. As yet, you've gone from saying you saw something that shows Noc is town, to just saying Noc is obv-town, to saying anyone who even suspects Noc is scummy for suspecting him.

I'm not going to address your points, because your points are currently IRRELEVANT.

- Tar

[vollkan]

Hi all, just chiming in to say that my computer issues have been resolved (or, rather, I had to buy a new PC). I will catch up shortly

[GreyICE]

Its still a really bad call but I'm not going to RAGE against it.

Yeah, see Hoopla's posts in PYP? Long, intricate, and quite free of real content of any sort.

Kast posts? Long, intricate, and the only content is saying how everyone who votes for him is either a VI or doesn't like his playstyle.

Any idiot can spout a LOT of information, and this is just information mixed with really bad AtE.

Why is he town? He directly and blatantly laughs at the idea of providing clear logical content, and throws it straight back in my face. He wants to play like this for the entire game. Shit, no. He won't be playing on day 2.

(And the vote won't move no matter what the answer. Ultimatums are ultimatums)

I could switch to Kast at deadline. I think he and Ace are both scum.

Switch now. If they're both scum, there's little practical preference to pushing one over another. Kast is deliberately CLAIMING that he'll be useless to the town. This ain't town behavior. Just kill him.

Kast does nothing useful except kick shit at players. He's had no good reads. His response to every vote on him is to try and discredit the person voting for him:

Nocmen Votes for Kast:

@Nocmen-
There's a difference between stating what you think and asking people if it's ok to think what you think. The "town must vote immediately" mindset is ridiculous and needs to be killed. I think I've been spoiled by playing mostly games with competent playerbases where this stuff doesn't need to be explained.

It's all theory, Nocmen's mindset is ridiculous, clear implication that Nocmen is incompetent.

Ace criticizes Kast:

@Ace-
If you're going to bother quoting context, you should take the extra time to read the context.

If you believed the statement in bold why did you feel the need to do the italic statement.

I felt the need because people like you (and I suspect Candlejack as well) are going to be dense and fallaciously claim that thinking someone is joking is equivalent to thinking the person is seriously fake claiming.

Also the bold statement is a lie:

The bold statement is false. As you quoted, I explicitly asked whether GreyIce was

SERIOUS

or not. If he was not being serious, then his claim was clearly opening game joking (ie. it is meaningless). If he was being serious, then there exists possibilities of telling the truth or fake claiming. Nowhere have I ever suggested or implied the latter; rather I have explicitly indicated the former is more likely due to the demonstrable nature of his claim.

And I can't find where you explicitly contrasted anything.

Sounds like a personal problem

(You just quoted it, so I'm not buying it if you pretend you did not see/understand it)

Ace is dense, Ace isn't reading, Ace is pretending not to see/understand something.

Surye votes Kast:

@Surye-
Welcome to the game. Do you have anything more to add and/or thoughts about anything else?

Also, excusing yourself from your position by claiming to not read old grudges allows you to mischaracterize my position. I was one of the few players who defended GreyIce and was willing to engage in discussion with him despite his behavior. He was just as unhelpful and intentionally hostile in that game as this one, but I got a strong VI-town read from it. If you're going to bother using the linked game as an excuse, get it right.

Surye is excusing his votes, implies that Surye didn't do a thorough read/is just sheeping a wagon, Surye is excusing himself from the wagon.

Repeatedly criticizes Surye for flaking and suggests he will flake out throughout the thread. Surye currently (despite being a replacement) boasts

TWENTY-ONE

posts in this thread, putting him ahead of:

DrewoftheRushes
Zel1nk
GhostWriter
malthusis
Antifinity
Kawaii
Celeblowski

Many of these players have single-digit post counts. Yet during the course of this thread, Kast has not harped on anyone for lurking/flaking as much as Surye, and

Surye replaced in.

Tajo expresses suspicion of Kast:

@Tajo-
Your pattern is kinda old. Each game we play you start by saying you hate me for my wallotexts. Then you proceed to wall it up yourself and admit I'm town when you finally read my posts.

LLD doesn't like Kast:

Of the players in the bloc, I'm liking LLD the least; she pretty much just called all the other members townies based on...playing with them before?; sheeped/buddied/whatever you want to call it the reads of her proclaimed townies, then took some WTF?! potshots at her "approved" scum list.

I specifically named LLD because she is blatantly exemplifying all the negative aspects of any self-declared townie-voting-bloc and is one of the ardent attack dogs of anyone who even hints at disagreement. I'm specifically addressing LLD more in depth than others because she posted a blatantly untrue and clearly unthought through WTF?!?! dismissal of my catch up post. Then instead of being honest and admitting her mistake, she tried pushing BS misrepresentations and anti-town stalling/distractions.

This shit is all eye-rollingly terrible crap. He has constantly attempted to discredit EVERY PERSON IN THE THREAD WHO SUGGESTS HE'S SCUMMY OR SCUM.

He's doing this BLATANTLY folks. He's told me to my face he has no intention of fucking stopping. He's a blantant motherfucking scumbag who is discrediting players left and right, making no attempts to scumhunt, and is fucking just sitting there whining, scumplaining, and insulting people.

This isn't even going into the WALLS of shit he's posted about me and CandleJack.

EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THIS THREAD WHO IS NOT VOTING KAST AFTER THIS POST WILL GIVE ME A GOOD REASON WHY OR I WILL HUNT YOU DOWN AFTER THE KAST SCUMFLIP.

[vollkan]

Responding to posts I missed:

@SpyreX: what do you think of Amrun and an Amrun wagon?

Same question to Vollkan.

Minorly scummy in his own right, with fairly strong relational tells to Stevie. Amrun is obviously much better than no lynch (or any of my '50s'), but I think my read on the likelihood of Amrun-scum will be more accurate tomorrow after Stevie explains everything as agreed.

EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THIS THREAD WHO IS NOT VOTING KAST AFTER THIS POST WILL GIVE ME A GOOD REASON WHY OR I WILL HUNT YOU DOWN AFTER THE KAST SCUMFLIP.

I don't see the case against him. In the Nocmen example you quoted, he is arguing that Nocmen's position is invalid because it is based on a terrible premise: that all town will be motivated to vote. I admit I am talking as somebody who also hates that mentality, but it's a completely legitimate response. GI, what are you suggesting? That Kast should have simply ignored the fact that he thinks the whole basis of Nocmen's argument is bad?

Similarly, the Ace example is just the standard case of mild ad hominem ("Ace is dense and misreading") being spun into some kind of grand conspiracy to discredit people.

The Surye and Tajo dismissals are less reasonable, and do merit

Kast+5

The LLD one, however, I also disagree with you on. LLD herself has admitted that her town reads are simply plucked from the aether, and having better-justified scumreads doesn't excuse that. Tbh, I think this is less of an alignment tell for LLD as it is a general problem with the concept of townreads, but either way I don't think it's scummy for Kast to discredit such a playstyle

[GreyICE]

@Vollkan: Interesting idea. However, Nocmen supplied his actual argument against Kast:

@Kast: There's a difference between posting fluff and posting reads. Votes don't always need to happen, but I will go after someone for not posting any reads, making it too easy for scum to get away with that. Also, you seem very against Grey's claim, and if you are...why aren't you voting him?

Why that's... substantially different than how it appears from the rebuttal, isn't it? Why it's almost like Kast is creating a made up position that he's misrepresenting onto his detractor, and then rebutting that completely fictitious position in his posts. Damn I need a less wordy name for that.

As for LLD, she specifically says this:

I don't need to explain my town reads. If I read someone as town, I just need to state "they're town". That's it.

What Kast is doing is implying that a lack of reasoning displayed for her

town reads

also correlates to a lack of reasoning for her

scum reads

. Which she correctly notes he doesn't address, except to throw more shit at her and hope it sticks.

The Scummiest of the Scum (AKA: Need to die)
-----------------------------------------------------
Stevie
Lobster
Amrun
Drew
Ace
Antifinity

Kast

(Bolding added)

Can't see any reason for that, nope.