Newbie 1116 -- Game Over

[Zachrulez]

That's where I'm at right now BTW, the start of page 28.

[Zachrulez]

Made it!

My head is spinning...

I'm starting to get a queesy feeling about Cobbler...and I agree with most of your points on Cobbler Grimm...except the bit about buddying up with the IC. They're here for a reason, as the SEs are. Town not using them because "they can't trust them" is foolish. People should ask questions of the IC MORE often if they don't trust him, not less.

At any rate, I'm willing to put Cobbler to L-1 if everyone else is willing. Zach can reread the thread during the night phase, and if we have 5 willing voters, there's no reason we can't say piss on that record and see if we can get this game moving again.

Anyone object?

Looks for approval, is willing to end the day before I can give input. Why eager to do this?

Without getting into a huge quote fest or a gigantic wall post, my general impression of Vicera Eyes is a player who's trying to look proactive without actually being particularly pro active. Think about it, can you recall a firm stance he's taken or indeed any stance that he hasn't slunk back from the second a player hits back when he goes after them? I saw a lot of that.

Also if you go to page 8 at post 184 and read from there, that was the ultimate crumble and backpedal. If ever there was a scum melt down, that was it. Down to the bottom of the page, well shit, those actions are going to get me lynched, I better look like I care about lynching scum again!

Vote: Viscera Eyes

Note: I quoted post 675, in paticular because the last line seems to clearly concede that Blue will flip town. (He uses the term "sniff out the enemies of the state" in plural form and in context with Blue being lynched in the past tense.)

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 1.17

Cobblerfone - 3 - Grimmjow, Workdawg, bigAl
Workdawg - 2 - The Fonz, VisceraEyes
bigAl - 1 - cymru96
cymru96 - 1 - Tomie Uzumaki
VisceraEyes - 1 - Zachrulez

Not Voting: Cobblerfone

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Deadline: July 5 -- (expired on 2011-07-05 11:00:00)

V/LA: ...

[Workdawg]

Damn it Zach! I was pretty suspicious of VE, but everyone else thought it was "ultra town" the way he flipped out. Why must you make me reconsider him!

[Grimmjow]

Ok, Zach, I had an issue with him a while back, but decided to unvote him because we had too few players actually playing the game, and it was risky tunneling with that few. I will admit, I have more of a town read on him, but I'm not crossing him off my list. Can you give me more evidence to your vote? After 34 pages, I feel like if you really believe him to be scum, you can come up with a decent case against him.

Also, my boyfriend (Reck) says you're a great player. So I look forward to playing with you.

[Grimmjow]

Damn it Zach! I was pretty suspicious of VE, but everyone else thought it was "ultra town" the way he flipped out. Why must you make me reconsider him!

I didn't think it was "ultra town." I actually made a case as to why his flip out was NOT town. However, I see this more as an opportunistic jump to VE than sincere.

[Workdawg]

lol... I haven't changed my vote yet, but I'm certainly going to go back and take another look. Cobbler's recent play has me pretty convinced he's scum though.

bigAl, Tomie, and The Fonz at least I recall specifically saying they felt the flipout was a town tell. I actually don't remember anyone BUT me saying it seemed scummy, but if you did, then my bad.

[Tomie Uzumaki]

bigAl, Tomie, and The Fonz at least I recall specifically saying they felt the flipout was a town tell. I actually don't remember anyone BUT me saying it seemed scummy, but if you did, then my bad.

Ahum?

-And yes, I also didn’t like Viscera’s quick turn-around.

[Zachrulez]

Ok, Zach, I had an issue with him a while back, but decided to unvote him because we had too few players actually playing the game, and it was risky tunneling with that few. I will admit, I have more of a town read on him, but I'm not crossing him off my list. Can you give me more evidence to your vote? After 34 pages, I feel like if you really believe him to be scum, you can come up with a decent case against him.

Cases are overrated. It's like adding a bunch of non and meh points to pad around the points that are actually legitimate.

I also felt he was quite manipulative in the way he convinced you to unvote him. That adds into why I think he's likely scum.

Also, my boyfriend (Reck) says you're a great player. So I look forward to playing with you.

Off topic. Reckoner?

[Grimmjow]

Ok, Zach, I had an issue with him a while back, but decided to unvote him because we had too few players actually playing the game, and it was risky tunneling with that few. I will admit, I have more of a town read on him, but I'm not crossing him off my list. Can you give me more evidence to your vote? After 34 pages, I feel like if you really believe him to be scum, you can come up with a decent case against him.

Cases are overrated. It's like adding a bunch of non and meh points to pad around the points that are actually legitimate.

Touche, but that makes me a tad wary. So I'll agree to this, but I'm going to keep watch more intensely over you're "points/cases."

I also felt he was quite manipulative in the way he convinced you to unvote him. That adds into why I think he's likely scum.

I can understand that, and I went back just now to re-read that part of the thread, and I can still understand the reasoning behind the unvote. However, this has been my own fault, I haven't really been looking at him in a scummy light since then, so perhaps I was overlooking something.

Off topic. Reckoner?

Aye. xRECKONERx

[Grimmjow]

Time for me to head to work. Deadline's getting close, so I expect a lot of participation and discussion coming up.

[Workdawg]

bigAl, Tomie, and The Fonz at least I recall specifically saying they felt the flipout was a town tell. I actually don't remember anyone BUT me saying it seemed scummy, but if you did, then my bad.

Ahum?

-And yes, I also didn’t like Viscera’s quick turn-around.

My bad... must be someone else I was thinking of. In any case, I'm about half way through VE's ISO and I'll share my thoughts when I'm through.

[Tomie Uzumaki]

Post 704 - Workdawg

You really didn't see:
-My accusation that he isn't scumhunting with examples why I came to that analysis?
-My accusation that he ignores it when players put up a defence against his points with his cases against BigAl and Grimmjow as examples?
-My accusation of hypocricy as he did the same as he accused Miss JJ off?
-The only thing that comes close to 'information' is my last point against him that I've yet posted, but that 'information' points out why I don't like what I pointed out.

Post 706 - Viscera

I was talking about Grimm's defence post against you. See this.
Some examples include his defence about your point of him defending Workdawg, which you later changed into 'pressuring' Yonzy, yet you still accuse him of defending Workdawg in your case. You mentioning somewhere that Cymru should at least mention the 4 most active players, Grimmjow did before and yet you accuse him of not scumhunting. And there's probably more, but you're referring in post 706 that he was only defending himself against his accusation against you? Try again.

Apparently, your first response isn't about this as the third response agrees with me. So what's the first point about :S?
Congrats, you destroyed the only example I've called out as 'close to scumhunting' and made it into a 'not scumhunting' example. And no, you weren't scumhunting against Cymru. You made a rhetorical question after his comment about not wanting to appear scummy.. Afterwards, you mention you could see it coming from Cymru-town. And after that, he still needs to explain why he said that.

- Tomie Uzumaki

Yonzy

- Gut feeling is bordering somewhere between 'slightly scummy' and 'can't really remember anything about TU'. Time to reread his posts. In general I feel like most of his (his, right?) posts are good in theory but weak on the examples - for example:

-Most post from Workdawg are easy to summarise. They were either to tell about his absence or about what events have happened.. Why the latter is scummy this time? I ask everybody to look back at post 99. Can anyone tell me what his stance is against Cym in general? I know that he disagrees with the attacks against Cym, but what is his opinion about Cym? And Cym is just an example here. You don't see anything about anything he has seen as scummy.

In theory, good point about not seeing anything as scummy. However, I disagree that he doesn't talk about his stance against cy. I think he makes it pretty clear in the infamous post #99 that he doesn't think that his "typo" is a big deal - meaning he finds nothing scummy about that as I read it. I know you said it's just an example, but it's a poor example in my opinion.

@BigAl
My point is that we didn't know anything about his scum and town-reads. Did you?

Post 724 - Viscera

Just wow... Cymru only added one post with content and he's off the list and suddenly BigAl is on it, while Viscera called him more town-looking than himself :S (Post 501) And yes, you can argue that Cymru was put off the list due to the reads of others. However, you once voted Cymru based on not scumhunting (The second time) and in the post after that, you already unvote him. So no, that argument won't be helping you.

Post 727 - Cobbler

Did you even read why Blue was supporting his lynch? This isn't coming from newb-scum. Don't make me doubt my town-read on you.

Post 748 - Cymru

So, you're psychic? Because she unvoted you before you accused her of being mafia. Wanna try again to respond to post 723?

Post 763 - Cymru

No, just no. BigAl posted his opinions on every player and you accuse him of not having done much lately?
EDIT: Iso showed me some goodies. You rather vote a player who you have nothing on, instead of a player you are/were suspicious off? Why?

@Viscera
Uhm, Workdawg is one of my suspicions, remember? My guess is that the scum are between you, Cymru and Workdawg. Though I need to respond to Workdawg, I feel he's least scummiest of the three.


I'm doing the last few pages tomorrow. I'll get my iron injection or whatever it's called in English tomorrow >.< So I won't be sleepy that quickly sometimes soonish~

[Workdawg]

@Tomie

- Maybe it's the formatting of that post, but not really. it's INCREDIBLY hard to read. Even with you outlining your points above I'm having a tough time figuring out what you were talking about in that previous post. The post above though is much easier to read.

VE

I just finished reading VE's ISO and while I agree with pretty much all the points Zach made, I didn't really see anything else in his ISO that jumped out at me. I noticed one suspicious thing, but it's completely circumstantial and not worth revealing quite yet. It'll hold a lot more weight once we've seen a flip. That said, IF I end up close to being lynched, I'll make sure to share it.

Overall, VE is on my radar as slightly scummy, but Cobbler is still at the top.

[Grimmjow]

One thought that I just had (yay running late to work XD):

Zach jumps into the thread and says he wants to know what others think of his slot's "roleclaim," stating only that he roleclaimed VT. He did, however, overlook the fact that Blue also claimed out right scum. Was he subliminally directing people to immediately think of him as town?

[cymru96]

I only voted BigAl to see more from him.
I don't think that Viscera's "flipout" was scum just frustrated town. (a few pages late but hey!) Saying that, the point that Zach has about Vis not taking a stance exept the bluepokemon days, is kinda true which is making me think.

I take it that most people think that cobbler is scum but out of interest,
who does cobbler suspect?

[Zachrulez]

One thought that I just had (yay running late to work XD):

Zach jumps into the thread and says he wants to know what others think of his slot's "roleclaim," stating only that he roleclaimed VT. He did, however, overlook the fact that Blue also claimed out right scum. Was he subliminally directing people to immediately think of him as town?

Well yeah, what I was asking was what you think of this slot (I also asked that before I read the scum claim.) so you can think of it in terms of which claim you believe if you want.

[bigAl]

So in light of the fact that my predecessor effectively roleclaimed, I find it important at this point to ask everyone what their read of this player slot is.

Based on blue's play, I think he's likely town. Based on Zach's play... we'll see.

I believe there's no such thing as a "confirmed" townie (short of, say, a dead cop with an investigation result) - overall VE still rings town to me but he's going down a bit. No need to ask to put someone at L-1 at this point (for example) - only four days left. This seems wishy washy.

[Cobblerfone]

Did you even read why Blue was supporting his lynch? This isn't coming from newb-scum. Don't make me doubt my town-read on you.

Yes, boredom. Which is null. Zach has restored my faith in the slot though.

or whatever it's called in English tomorrow >.<

Ah, this explains the awkwardness.

who does cobbler suspect?

bigAl and Workdawg. VE is no longer the obvtownie I had him as though.

[Grimmjow]

Ok, so we have 4 days to go. We don't need a no-lynch scenario here.

[Workdawg]

4 days is plenty of time considering we have a few targets identified. If we still had no wagons going, then I'd be worried.

Also, I'll be on vacation over the weekend. I will have my laptop with me, so I'll most likely check in at least once a day, but I may not get the chance. I WILL be back before the deadline though.

[cymru96]

Ok, so it seems that Cobbler and Wordawg are the two main suspects but from what I've seen Word is against Cobbler. Unless they are playing a genious/very risky game they are not both scum.
The question is, which one of the two?
Also, who else is scum alongside them? I think that it is most likely to be tommieUzumaki because I don't think that Al, Viscera or Zach are scum.

[Workdawg]

What is YOUR opinion between Cobbler and I? There's been plenty of debate both ways.

[cymru96]

I'm more inclined to suspect you, Wordawg because I think that most of your long posts don't have much content in them and I think that you are doing this to look active when you don't suspect anyone cause you know the scum is.

[Grimmjow]

Cy, this close to the deadline, it would be incredibly foolish of scum to be pushing some elaborate play like this. As far as who their scumbuddy is, we essentially need to wait for a scum flip and then analyze the interactions that person had with the others in the town. Also, if you think someone is scum, vote them. Idly sitting back and saying "Ok, well one of these two is scum, and I think it's this one" and then not voting that person seems suspicious to me.