Any Band U-Pick (Town Wins)

[Slaxx]

Vote Count 1.05

Evilpacman18(8): Gorilla, CSL, Seraphim, AntB, Gaoth, Groundsel, Powerrox93, NintendoAddict1
Parabollocks(3): Diddin, Cogito Ergo Sum, Evilpacman18,
NintendoAddict1(2): Nikanor, Pine
Trumpet of Doom(2): Demonhybrid, Furry
Juls(1): Regfan
Furry(1): Trumpet of Doom
Pine(1): Juls
Seraphim(0):
Gaoth(0):
Diddin(0):
Parama(0):
Cogito Ergo Sum(0):
AntB(0):
Demonhybrid(0):
Regfan(0):
Powerrox93(0):
Nikanor(0):
Groundsel(0):
Gorilla(0):
CSL(0):

Not Voting (2):

Parama, Parabollocks

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch and 10 to no lynch. Deadline is in (expired on 2011-07-14 22:22:00)

[DemonHybrid]

Ooooo, I'm a counterwagon.

Unvote, Vote: EPM

I think you're doing a fantastic job of crumbling under pressure. Ani can wait, but you're become a lot more obvious, and everyone's been doing a great job of raising points against you.

[DemonHybrid]

Also,

Ani:

please comment on the current wagon and any recent happenings. I'd like your thoughts.

[Seraphim]

I think Juls is town mainly because of her fake daykill. It does not make her as town as Furry. Also, her play reads more as exasperated town than anything. If you want a more in-depth read, I'd be more than happy to provide it.

EPM needs to be lynched with fire.

DH: Ani was replaced by Trumpet of Doom. I think. Yeah.

[Groundsel]

I think Juls is town mainly because of her fake daykill.

why???

The furry one was an original town invention. Could Juls not have seen that it was getting town fruit for furry and copied the idea? What's o hard to believe?

If I did a dayvig gambit now, does that make me townier? Nope. Furry's yes, but subsequent dayvigs are just trying to milk the gambit cow for townie cred too much.

But I agree recent posts look like exasperated/frustrated townie and EPM should be Lynch of the day anyways

meanwhile, I want more DH and nikanor

[Seraphim]

I have yet to see scum fake a daykill because of the negative attention it brings especially when she claimed a daykill on a claimed "PR"(it was clear that he was making a joke though). It seems like a good place to start a read.

[Trumpet of Doom]

(WARNING: WALLPOST AHEAD)

So here's my take on band claiming:
Since PRs are determined based on the songs of the band that the first player in a player slot picked, having original players claim their bands seems like a very subtle way for scum to figure out who might have a PR. It's not necessarily going to help them a whole lot, but I'm fairly sure that scum-ToD would put a fair amount of time into analyzing something like that. (Yes, I see Gaoth 21. No, it doesn't convince me that it's a good idea.)
It really doesn't matter whether replacements like me claim bands or not, since it doesn't reflect on our potential roles at all.

Furry's dayvig attempt shows that he's never played in a game with a real daykill. Daykills don't end the day, that's why they're called daykills instead of forcelynches. And considering that he's trying to play it as confirming him as town... yeah, not good at all. (Has Furry read the Storm of Swords game that wrapped up a month or two ago?)
Juls' daykill, OTOH, comes off as very slightly town - I see town as a hair more likely than scum to try to pull a fake-DK that soon after a may-or-may-not-be-real DK (and although the "I was reaction fishing" claim later makes me *twitch* a bit, I don't know how much that's me thinking it's scummy and how much that's just it being one of my pet peeves; besides, I'd expect Juls to know how to interpret any results she got, so I'll let it slide).

Powerrox 72 feels off.

@Ani - I just want to make sure, but your case is
1) I faked a daykill and kept the act up
2) I am trying to look town

For the record, 2) is a perfectly legitimate reason to vote somebody, especially with the qualifier ani adds in 148. I've caught scum with it before. I've caught scum on page 2 with it before.

DH 151 is -worthy.

Pb 186: Need I remind you that "scum would never do X" is a decent reason for scum to do X? I'll have the waiter come bring you another bottle of wine.
188: ...If you're town, you've got some pretty impressive cognitive dissonance going.

people who think Furry is scum: any sort of theory that involves Furry being scum and doing what he just did must also involve ani being scum with him.

Disagree (duh). Furry-scum could easily pull the "sure, I would [fake a daykill] as town" card.

nintendo 207: I'm starting to remember why I thought you were scum before I got my role PM. 207, etc. are horrendous.

epm 261 I can definitely read as a scumslip (see diddin 276), although there definitely is an alternate interpretation. Odds are high that epm and diddin are not scum together.

I'm tired of getting mislynched on D1.

...then play better or replace into games. How is that a problem for any of us to solve/care about?

gorilla 383: quit lurking
Also, "2scum4scum" is a dangerous path to walk down. Steer clear of it if you possibly can.

Groundsel 404: Um, I don't think Furry was actually getting a whole lot of towncred for it. Could just be my imagination talking, though.

---------------------------

So reads:

Gaoth: Leaning scum, largely on gut.
AntB: who? Null, maybe leaning scum a tiny bit, but I need more to work with.
DemonHybrid: Town, I suspect.
Regfan: (Oh right, you're in DEFCON 3 along with gorilla. Sorry for leaving you out earlier. ) Null.
diddin: On play alone, null, possibly leaning scum; however, less scum than epm, so likely town IMO.
Parama: Null. Nothing to work with.
Parabollocks: Scum.
Pine: Null.
CSL: Leaning town, though I'm not convinced about post 5 being a townslip

as much as some of you are

.
Powerrox93: Leaning scum, but it's not a strong read.
nintendoaddict1: Scum. Post 207 onward - his terrible attack on Seraphim and his heavy AtE.
Seraphim: Leaning town.
Furry: Scum. You're not confirmed town until a power role comes forward with a result clearing you, scum attack you in a way that is Obviously Not Bussing, or you massively townslip like hohum in Open 180 (Nik knows what I'm talking about). None of those has happened, and trying to say you're conftown without a reason to believe you is baaaaaaaaaad.
Juls: Leaning town.
Nikanor: Town, though the fact that he's posting prolifically elsewhere but not here is giving me pause.

Trumpet of Doom: Godlike town.

Groundsel: Leaning town.
Cogito Ergo Sum: Null. He's playing similarly in another game I volunteered to /replace into, so I might be willing to give him townpoints for it, but not ATM.
evilpacman18: Scum trying hard to earn "no actual scum would

possibly

be that scummy, so he must not be scum" status. It ain't gonna work.
gorilla: Leaning town.

Or, to put them in categories: (There's no order within the categories, BTW.)
TOWN
Nik
DH

LEANING TOWN
diddin
gorilla
Groundsel
Juls
Seraphim
CSL

NULL
AntB
Regfan
Parama
Pine
CES

LEANING SCUM
Gaoth
Powerrox

SCUM
epm
Furry
nintendo
Parabollocks

[nintendoaddict1]

AntB: who? Null, maybe leaning scum a tiny bit, but I need more to work with.
diddin: On play alone, null, possibly leaning scum; however, less scum than epm, so likely town IMO.

So wait... you have a Null read that might be a leaning scum read on Ant, but you need more content from him? If you don't have enough content from him, why post a read on him at all?

And your read on diddin. You call him null, leaning scum, and likely town all in one sentence. Something is off here. Oh, that's right, you replaced ani, who I had a huge scumread on.

[diddin]

Unvote

Consider EPM at L-1. I had no clue I wasn't even voting him.

[DemonHybrid]

Oh, he was replaced. And I liked trumpet's catch up post.

[Seraphim]

diddin: On play alone, null, possibly leaning scum;

however, less scum than epm, so likely town IMO

.

I would actually like an explanation for what connection with EPM makes diddin more town.

diddin is a good place to look for scum tomorrow.

[Groundsel]

@trumpet: talk about your gaoth and DH reads in more detail. Why is DH so town to you on gut? and opposite for gaoth

[Groundsel]

Unvote

Consider EPM at L-1.

at L-4?

Fos: didin

also

Groundsel 404: Um, I don't think Furry was actually getting a whole lot of towncred for it. Could just be my imagination talking, though.

Furry is Regfan's top town read -_-

not so much town fruit at the time though maybe

Oh, he was replaced. And I liked trumpet's catch up post.

anything else you have to say?
take a stance on the Juls debate maybe, or talk about other stuff that happened whilst you were gone?

sigh. It's my first mafiascum game and I've already had dissapointment in not getting myself my SK role. If I don't get a scumflip today then I won't be the happiest of campers

@nintendo: so.... your reads list?

[Trumpet of Doom]

So wait... you have a Null read that might be a leaning scum read on Ant, but you need more content from him? If you don't have enough content from him, why post a read on him at all?

So people know where I stand on everyone. Which is what you're supposed to do when you replace into a game.

And your read on diddin. You call him null, leaning scum, and likely town all in one sentence. Something is off here.

See, it's not just

his

play that's factoring into that read. If it were, he'd be towards the scummy edge of null, as mentioned. But as explained earlier in the post, I don't think he's scum with epm; until/unless I see evidence of two scum teams, I will assume that means a maximum of one of them can be scum, and since I think epm is likely scum, that means diddin is likely town. Got that?

I would actually like an explanation for what connection with EPM makes diddin more town.

diddin's 276 was the first post to call epm's 261 a scumslip. I don't think a scumpartner would be the first person to point that out, and it's not like it was an excuse to jump on a wagon that had just started going somewhere, so I don't see it as a bus.

@trumpet: talk about your gaoth and DH reads in more detail. Why is DH so town to you on gut? and opposite for gaoth

If it's gut, that means I'm not sure (or don't want to say) what's causing it. However, if I had to try to come up with something, I'd probably say:

Gaoth's early posts (say, iso 2-3) feel forcedly excited and not quite genuine.
DH reads as fairly sincere, even when I think he's wrong. Also, I don't think scum would have pushed the CSL "townslip" as hard as he did. (Caveat: If DH does flip scum, CSL jumps high on the scumlist for that same reason.)

Unvote

Consider EPM at L-1.

at L-4?

No, at L-2. And for the record, I'm fine voting any of the four people I put in the SCUM category, including epm, so if he hasn't claimed already, he probably should. (The reason I haven't moved my vote yet is because it's currently on someone I think is scum, FTR.)

[Furry]

[Furry's dayvig attempt shows that he's never played in a game with a real daykill. Daykills don't end the day, that's why they're called daykills instead of forcelynches. And considering that he's trying to play it as confirming him as town... yeah, not good at all. (Has Furry read the Storm of Swords game that wrapped up a month or two ago?)

They should end the day outside of a few specific circumstances or it makes the role overpowered for the town. The role literally gives the town two lynches, which eliminates night actions which if the game is remotely balanced is the area of the game where scum has the edge.

@Ani - I just want to make sure, but your case is
1) I faked a daykill and kept the act up
2) I am trying to look town

For the record, 2) is a perfectly legitimate reason to vote somebody, especially with the qualifier ani adds in 148. I've caught scum with it before. I've caught scum on page 2 with it before.

Let me guess, you also think "overdefensive" is a tell. Well guess what hun, it sure isnt. Neither of them are for one reason, a one word reason. "Subjectiveness"

What *you* consider overdefensive and what *I* consider overdefensive are entirely different things (mostly because I consider there to be no such thing but...) NOW! What this means is that those type of tells cannot be applied since there is no baseline for them to be applied. I can say you were overdefensive in your catchup post for trying to discret me and therefor my attack on you by saying trying to say I was town for making the kill (obviously in jest because I didnt have that ability), but again, subjective.

Why isnt your comment of "I would get way into this as scum" trying too hard to look town since you never did it? Hint - Its not. There is NO SUCH THING.

Anyway - Why do you imply nintendo town in your catchup then call him scum in your final post? Why is EMP scum, you say he can go either way in your notes but he is a top four read?

Votes not moving, catchup post is from scum. Note the distinct lack of explained stances, on anything. Note the distinct lack of reads that dont differ from almost every other player. Note the distinct LACK OF A VOTE.

[nintendoaddict1]

If it's gut, that means I'm not sure (or don't want to say) what's causing it. However, if I had to try to come up with something, I'd probably say:

Gaoth's early posts (say, iso 2-3) feel forcedly excited and not quite genuine.
DH reads as fairly sincere, even when I think he's wrong. Also, I don't think scum would have pushed the CSL "townslip" as hard as he did. (Caveat: If DH does flip scum, CSL jumps high on the scumlist for that same reason.)

including epm, so if he hasn't claimed already, he probably should. (The reason I haven't moved my vote yet is because it's currently on someone I think is scum, FTR.)

So either you're not sure or you don't want to say? Well, you explained your supposed 'gut' reads on them, so why did you include the '(or don't want to say)' bit?

And you are now rolefishing EPM.

EPM is still scum, but you need to be lynched today.

Unvote, Vote: ToD

[nintendoaddict1]

Note the distinct LACK OF A VOTE.

I don't see your vote, Furry.

[nintendoaddict1]

Note the distinct LACK OF A VOTE.

I don't see your vote, Furry.

*facepalm*

nvm, it was already there...

[Groundsel]

my bad, it was L-2

[Seraphim]

nintendo: ...if you are postulating that EPM and ToD are both scum...

but, somehow, ToD is rolefishing EPM...

ummmm....


ehhhhhhhh...


Still voting EPM because he's scum.

[nintendoaddict1]

nintendo: ...if you are postulating that EPM and ToD are both scum...

but, somehow, ToD is rolefishing EPM...

ummmm....


ehhhhhhhh...


Still voting EPM because he's scum.

It's called distancing. educate;

[Seraphim]

..........I understand the concept of distancing.

But how is "rolefishing" distancing? In fact, what's he done is definitely NOT rolefishing. Calling for a claim isn't rolefishing especially when the player in question is within lynching range.

[Trumpet of Doom]

[Furry's dayvig attempt shows that he's never played in a game with a real daykill. Daykills don't end the day, that's why they're called daykills instead of forcelynches. And considering that he's trying to play it as confirming him as town... yeah, not good at all. (Has Furry read the Storm of Swords game that wrapped up a month or two ago?)

They should end the day outside of a few specific circumstances or it makes the role overpowered for the town. The role literally gives the town two lynches, which eliminates night actions which if the game is remotely balanced is the area of the game where scum has the edge.

what is this i dont even

In case you haven't noticed, scum tend to win more often than town. One dayvig is not going to reverse that advantage, though it might work to neutralize it. (More on this after a certain game ends.)

Let me guess, you also think "overdefensive" is a tell.

In fact, no, I don't, unless it

also

counts as "trying too hard to look town."

Well guess what hun, it sure isnt. Neither of them are for one reason, a one word reason. "Subjectiveness"

And yet you don't complain when I say things like "Gaoth feels forced" or "DH feels genuine."

"Trying too hard" is the same concept. If you're Trying Too Hard, your posts feel forced, thus making you scummy.

Anyway - Why do you imply nintendo town in your catchup then call him scum in your final post?

I don't imply nintendo town - if I do, you're reading it wrong. My comment on his 309, if anything, implies I think he's scum ("how is [you being mislynched] a problem for any of us" because you can only be mislynched if you're town, which I don't think he is), and I don't know what else you could be talking about.

Why is EMP scum, you say he can go either way in your notes but he is a top four read?

...Have you read epm's posts recently?

Votes not moving, catchup post is from scum. Note the distinct lack of explained stances, on anything. Note the distinct lack of reads that dont differ from almost every other player. Note the distinct LACK OF A VOTE.

My vote is fine where ani left it, thankyouverymuch.

So either you're not sure or you don't want to say? Well, you explained your supposed 'gut' reads on them, so why did you include the '(or don't want to say)' bit?

Full disclosure. Go read Open 180 for an example of the "don't want to say" reason. It's linked from my wiki.

And you are now rolefishing EPM.

Again I say: what is this i dont even

Asking for a claim from someone who's within lynching range is not rolefishing, it's SOP. And I notice you outright claimed when you were at L-3 (I think), so I don't see what your issue is with having someone else claim at L-2.

[Trumpet of Doom]

(SOP = Standard Operating Procedure.)

[nintendoaddict1]

..........I understand the concept of distancing.

But how is "rolefishing" distancing? In fact, what's he done is definitely NOT rolefishing. Calling for a claim isn't rolefishing especially when the player in question is within lynching range.

Calling for a claim IS rolefishing, and you're on my scumlist too. Now that you are defending them it is only strengthening my scumread on you.