Mini 1193: Hacker's Panic mafia. (Game Over)

[xvart]

Sorry for my absence. I just replaced into another game and was focused there. Will post tonight.

[Zodiark13]

deselby looks like textbook newbtown to me. I'm not sure what bob has a problem with.

So, I'm being suspected for not liking yesterdays hammer, then, finding the non-defense townish, moving onto my next scum read? Right.

Point completely missed.
I'll give you one more shot to find what we have a problem with and then address it (hint: read 181 and then read 242; it should jump out at you).

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt because I have a meta of replacement jumping right onto a wagon with me on it, but seriously? Pointing at posts and saying "These posts are why you are scum, go look at them and think about what you've done wrong" is not how this game is played.

lolZodiark

UNVOTE: Hrezs
VOTE: Zodiark

His reaction is confscum to me. Hrezs is still a good lynch but Zodiark is just bad bad scum.

And here I was thinking you would try to pull the OMGUS card, and yet you go and defy all my expectations and OMGUS me. So, let's review. In less that 24 hours, bob has;

Voted me, with the only reason provided being 'Hey! Look!',
Unvoted me to jump on the Hrezs wagon, without providing any reasoning.
Re-voted me, with nothing more than 'Lolobvscum'

If thats not scum desperate to push an easy lynch, I don't know what is. TBH, if I were a betting man(and I'm not FTR, unless we're dealing with virtual money), I would put money on the idea that the reason barely anyone has commented on your so-called 'obv-scum catch' is that noone can see why it makes me obvscum, and are worried that this is some retarded, Fate-esque 'If you don't see why this makes him obvscum, you're obvscum with him' ploy.

[Celebloki]

Excerpt from #181

Vote:Celebloki

Hammering a claimed OSV = bad

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day = terrible

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day just because the claimed OSV is a VI = scum

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day just because the claimed OSV is a VI, and the claimed OSV flips OSV = if your not scum, I need to relearn how to scumhunt.

Excerpt from #242

Celeblokis refusal should make him jump up in scumminess, but for some reason it just gives of a town vibe.

And honestly, hammering a VI is hardly a massive scumtell.

Unvote

I believe the intent for people to go look at these posts was to draw their own conclusions instead of taking the theory from other people. In 181 you call me scum for hammering a VI, then 242 when you unvote me you say its hardly a massive scumtell. That's a direct contradiction to yourself which is a scumtell. I said you were obviously looking for the easiest bandwagon to follow because of these 2 posts. You vote me hoping it would develop into something, then when that bandwagon never got off the ground you contradicted your earlier case and unvoted me, moved on to don who was getting flak for the neighbor stuff and voted him, the next current bandwagon. That's why you're obvscum. The fact that instead of looking for your own mistake, you attack the idea of analyzing it is another scumtell. This makes you omgobvscum

Vote: Zodiark13

[Antihero]

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt because I have a meta of replacement jumping right onto a wagon with me on it, but seriously? Pointing at posts and saying "These posts are why you are scum, go look at them and think about what you've done wrong" is not how this game is played.

The condescending asshole tone isn't scoring you any points.
Celeblocki spoonfed you the reasoning (beat me to the punch... ) The fact that you went from

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day just because the claimed OSV is a VI, and the claimed OSV flips OSV =

if your not scum, I need to relearn how to scumhunt

.

to an unvote 2 posts later is pretty damn sketchy, too.

[bobsnox]

lol misrep on OMGUS

Scum caught. Good day.

[bobsnox]

And yes, Celebloki was correct. I wanted to see who would jump on what I noticed between those two posts. I wanted to see who was willing to lynch someone who I immediately thought was scum after I ISOed him. Immediate town cred for some people without anyone directly sheeping me. I think I said earlier I don't have a lot of town reads in this game. Now I have both town reads and scum reads.

[CooLskins]

I'm going to a do a quick ISO of zodiak. I have always had him at null...

~CooLDoG

[CooLskins]

Zodiak only had 4 posts d-1...

Hrezs, Zodiark, don, xvart, and kondi all need to post more; they all have 5 or less posts, and at least one of those is pregame for each.

-ponders for a moment-

-looks back at the quicklynch the day before-

-leers-

vote: Hrezs

since there's two more scum, and Hrezs is one of them.

Hows this work again? I came back to read the game and the thread was closed.

Also you just called

3

people scum, and said

2

more scum left?

Sounds like a scumslip.

Vote: Parama

Of note: I havent actually read day 1

Can you say epic reaching?

Vote:Celebloki

Hammering a claimed OSV = bad

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day = terrible

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day just because the claimed OSV is a VI = scum

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day just because the claimed OSV is a VI, and the claimed OSV flips OSV = if your not scum, I need to relearn how to scumhunt.

The old hammer = scum reasoning. Beck was acting scummy and the hammer was bad, but there was better people worth a vote.

Celeblokis refusal should make him jump up in scumminess, but for some reason it just gives of a town vibe. And honestly, hammering a VI is hardly a massive scumtell.

Unvote

C'est moi? Xvart is my neighbor btw. So im a wee bit shocked by the accusation.

I don't like this one bit. It reads of "I'm getting a little suspicion, so I'm going to claim to try to get into the 'obvtown' chair".

It is true. We are neighbors. I've been racking my brain for the life of me about our moderator and his opinions on neighbors since we were in a game together a while back and there were two town neighbors but

Humble didn't say anything definitive about neighbors and alignments other than alignments are unknown

. don did not talk in the neighbor QT at all pre game.

The bolded just makes dons claim worse. He conveniently forgot to mention that he doesn't know his neighbors alignment, which would be an important aspect of a claim, unless you are claiming solely for the sake of trying to make yourself obvtown.

Vote: don_johnson

^this could be a possible retraction from a bus. And he hops on the Don wagon. He doesn't give specific reasoning other then the stupid alignment speculation that don was doing.

So, I'm being suspected for not liking yesterdays hammer, then, finding the non-defense townish, moving onto my next scum read? Right.

bob has said 'Go look at Zodiark', then since then has harassed everyone for their opinion on me and deselby, without even posting a case, apart from the aforementioned "Look at him" and , against deselby, saying "I don't like how deselby is reacting to my CooLskins vote" and "You've outed yourself as scum lolololol". Yet, despite these "cases", you decided to pointlessly wagon Hrezs when the wagon against him hit full steam. Seriously, your last post is the closest you have come to providing any reason for voting, and its not even a reason.

UNVOTE
Vote: bobsnox

Sound reasoning in my opinion for jumping on the bob wagon. Bob is a bit wishy washy.

Basically all zodiark has done is vote for the person that hammered yesterday. And built up a small case on bob for swingy on and off of wagons. He hasn't generated that much content, but he has said anything that is overtly scummy.

My vote stays on don for now. I would also be willing to lynch parama... Bub will post tonight or I will kick his ass.

[bobsnox]

Coolskins that post is really scummy. There are really only two options - Zodiark is bad or he is scum. Saying he's ok is either not paying attention on your part or covering your buddy's back. He went from Celebloki is obvscum to Celebloki is not scummy whatsoever with no thought process in between. Not sure how you avoided addressing that specific point if you ISOed him. It was the first thing that popped out to me.

[deselby]

Sound reasoning in my opinion for jumping on the bob wagon. Bob is a bit wishy washy.

Basically all zodiark has done is vote for the person that hammered yesterday. And built up a small case on bob for swingy on and off of wagons. He hasn't generated that much content, but he has said anything that is overtly scummy.

My vote stays on don for now. I would also be willing to lynch parama... Bub will post tonight or I will kick his ass.

The first part I could agree with, after all celeb actually posted twice between zodiarks 2 offending posts, giving enough to, in theory, cause someone to change votes,

However it is the contradiction that is the scummy part, which you seem to have ignored.

Zodiark, address this please.

[CooLskins]

I totally disagree with CooLDoG.

unvote; vote: zodiark

If Don is scum, then I don't know what he was smoking to come up with all that about the role PM. Seriously. Scum don't do that.

Looking back, I've found that Zodiark is scum. He's changed his vote three times today, each time to the biggest wagon, and the contradictions are terribad.

Vote #1: Hey, celi hammered a townie. Must be scum.

Vote #2: Oops, I guess hammering a townie isn't that bad. Sorry. BTW, oooooh pretty don wagon.

Vote #3: OMFG! Bob's got a bigger wagon than don! MUST JUMP!!!

I get the feel that he isn't serious about any of his votes; which is classic scum behavior.

[xvart]

don - OSVs who refuse to have their shot directed by a majority vote when on the verge of being lynched are stupid or scum. Beck was unfortunately the former, but the lynch was still a good one IMO.

I don't disagree but there are degrees of separation between directing to a

specific

person and directing to a group of people; which I don't think we got into enough yesterday. Needless to say it doesn't matter much anymore.

when i received my pm i opened it, saw i was neighbors with xvart and then went to click on the link to the qt. as i scrolled over it, i notice it said it was a link to the scum qt. i immediately pm'd the mod to say "hey, am i scum? or if not, do you realize you sent me a link to the wrong qt.(paraphrased)" mod pm'd me back and said, "no, you are town and the qt is not a mistake, i just forgot to change the label." so i clicked on the link and day had already started. i ask if yours had the same mistake and you say no. but i'm not going to pm hunt you as i think its a bad idea, and if you are town it could end up in two mislynches. you seem to be looking at events objectively.

This is just really strange. Are people able to change the title's of QTs? My browser doesn't even show anything except the link when I hover over it. How would this prove my alignment if I said yes or no?

Bob has posited a scumteam with CooLskins and deselby. Parama has posited a scumteam with CooLskins and Hrezs. Each of them is voting for the non-CooLskins partner. This strikes me as odd; assuming each of them is town, they should think that they have an opportunity to convince another player to lynch one of their scumreads, and a CooLskins wagon should start. I'm sensing a scumteam with Parama and bob that is trying to probe the town's opinion before making a move.

I agree with this assessment.

The truth is that I still feel better about a Hrezs lynch regardless of the fact that you're confirmed scum, because you're confirmed scum mostly for reasons that are beyond your control and have little to do with your posting, whereas Hrezs' posting is basically a scumclaim.
Nah, not basically, it is; especially the one about my "scumslip" as he calls it.

This just reeks of faking a justification because you got called out on it. Someone is confirmed scum because of things beyond their control so you don't vote them?

OSV in a 13p?
pssh. all that would do is waste a lynch for the town. I see no reason to change my vote.

This really strikes me as strange. I don't think I've personally ever seen a full shot vig in a mini normal I've played but I have seen even/odd night vigs and a one shot vig is less shots than those so I don't really get the implication that a one shot vig in a mini normal is unbalanced or soooo unlikely. In fact, wasn't some of the justification for having the mini limit increase to a player base of 13 to incorporate a vig to increase town chances of winning? This just seems like an off the cuff reason to power through the lynch with no substantive base in reality. Based on your opinion do you think a full vig or an even/odd vig is even less likely than a full vig in a mini normal?

the only advantage of an OSV kill over a lynch is that it's guaranteed to come from a townie, but the major disadvantage is that a single townie can be biased.

I don't find this explanation acceptable and you conveniently didn't even consider that a lynch can be biased as well.

And I had a good idea of who Beck would've shot.

And this concerns me greatly since you were so adamant about him being lynched.

P.S. I've seen plenty of vigs in minis.

So the difference between full vigs and one shot vigs is one shot vigs can only be biased once. Have you ever had a full vig claim on D1 in a mini game?

the fact that Parama isn't voting someone that is

confirmed scum

0_0
So you agree that CooLskins is confirmed scum.

1

Even though, technically, he isn't. I just toss around the term haphazardly like a boss.

2

xvart... why do you think CooLskins is confirmed scum?
0_o
Do you know something I don't?
Do you know something that the town doesn't?

3

This is such a scummy post for so many reasons:

1

You know damn well the context of the post is me speaking from your expressed viewpoint.

2

Yet you still call him confirmed scum in this very post and back off of it because his being confirmed scum isn't his fault. Also, even if you throw it around "like a boss" the implication is still more than a casual scum read. Plus, I don't even see really see why you believe he was confirmed scum other than he double RVSed with Beck and some cursory responses to CooLskins. Can you elaborate on what double RVSing means and why this indicates if how one of them is scum?

3

This final string of questions is just laughable at your attempt to undermine me by saying I was the one that called CooLskins confirmed scum couldn't be more obvious.

your ISO has one point about me, and also includes you saying I'm town
whereas you have a huge fight with don including a wall-o-text-war.
What makes me scummier than him, just wondering? Because, well, one, you're wrong, two, it doesn't look like you actually think that.

Well I actually said your response was town because I was expecting a more flame fest with you accusing your attackers with an early wagon (which is ironic because that seems to be what you are doing now). And I really like your sensationalized account of don and I and are apparent "argument." Also, it should be apparent why I believe you to be scum which is equally interesting since you just railed on someone for not reading your posts to find your case; so either you are just trying to make me seem like I don't know what I'm doing or you are hoping I back down to your wheee authority.

and nothing about why I'm scum. neato.you have nothing except this supposed "scumslip" which was just you misrepping me, and blatantly at that. excuse me while I refrain from moving my vote

Gosh. Imagine my surprise that you aren't moving your vote off of someone who has claimed scum or refraining from voting someone who is confirmed scum. This is the sort of mudsligging/subtle threats I have come to expect from Parama scum.

bobnox - it's not good to buddy up to scum.

Celebloki has a good catch. Given the context of and his voting pattern around this time makes this is a solid case and wagon. I'll keep my vote on Parama until Zodiark has a chance to respond but I don't see anything that could really convince me otherwise.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Heads up: Tomorrow I have to pick my in-laws up at the airport, and will then be driving down to California, so don't expect me to post until Sunday.

[bobsnox]

xvart - Parama is not today's lynch. And I made the catch <_<. I asked others to look at the same posts to see if they would jump on it like I did.

Not sure what to think of Bub's post. I like the conclusion but I'm wary of the possibility that Bub was saving the hydra's hide.

[xvart]

Not sure what to think of Bub's post. I like the conclusion but I'm wary of the possibility that Bub was saving the hydra's hide.

I agree with this. I absolutely hate when hydra's contradict themselves in the game. Generally it's not too bad, but something like this, given the context of how it developed is highly suspicious. And sorry about the miscredit

[bobsnox]

Ok well, you should be voting Zodiark. He had an opportunity to address his posts and he avoided doing so, opting instead to try to discredit me. Scummy posts turned into a scummy defense mechanism.

Parama can wait for later. Much later.

[CooLskins]

Not sure what to think of Bub's post. I like the conclusion but I'm wary of the possibility that Bub was saving the hydra's hide.

I agree with this. I absolutely hate when hydra's contradict themselves in the game. Generally it's not too bad, but something like this, given the context of how it developed is highly suspicious. And sorry about the miscredit

I think it's mainly a consequence of CooLDoG tunneling onto Don for some time, and then me coming in with fresh eyes and seeing that Don being scum just doesn't make sense.

[don_johnson]

Traveling day today and family get together tomorrow. Ill review the zodiark case by sunday.

[Humble Poirot]

Those in danger of being exposed #9:

Hrezs (1)

- Parama,

Zodiark13 (3)

- bobsnox, Celebloki, CooLskins,

Celebloki (1)

- Antihero,

Parama (1)

- xvart,

bobsnox (4)

- deselby, Haschel Cedricson, Hrezs, Zodiark13,

CooLskins (1)

- don_johnson,

Not Voting (0)

-

With 11 Alive it takes 6 to lynch.

V/LAs (I think):

Haschel Cedricson: 1/7-3/7
don_johnson: 1/7-3/7

[Hrezs]

I don't understand the zodiark wagon. Nothing he's done has struck me as scum. Not saying I read him as town, but I don't see the case against him.

[bobsnox]

You can't be serious. Ok Zodiark and Hrezs are great lynches and great buddy candidates.

Here Hrezs, I'll quote exactly what I was looking at:

Vote:Celebloki

Hammering a claimed OSV = bad

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day = terrible

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day just because the claimed OSV is a VI = scum

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day just because the claimed OSV is a VI, and the claimed OSV flips OSV = if your not scum, I need to relearn how to scumhunt.

Two posts later with no related content in between:

Celeblokis refusal should make him jump up in scumminess, but for some reason it just gives of a town vibe. And honestly, hammering a VI is hardly a massive scumtell.

Unvote

He immediately jumped on the largest wagon (don) at the end of that post. Then, when I called him out and got a wagon on him going, he jumped on my wagon (the largest wagon again). Now tell me that's not scummy.

[CooLskins]

Not sure what to think of Bub's post. I like the conclusion but I'm wary of the possibility that Bub was saving the hydra's hide.

I agree with this. I absolutely hate when hydra's contradict themselves in the game. Generally it's not too bad, but something like this, given the context of how it developed is highly suspicious. And sorry about the miscredit

Is it any worse then what zodiark did by flip flopping? I still have a scum read on Don though. I just can't see don being town at the moment. I will hoewever, trust Bub's judgment.

[deselby]

sorry, slightly mad weekend, will post tomorrow (australia time)

[Zodiark13]

I believe the intent for people to go look at these posts was to draw their own conclusions instead of taking the theory from other people. In 181 you call me scum for hammering a VI, then 242 when you unvote me you say its hardly a massive scumtell. That's a direct contradiction to yourself which is a scumtell. I said you were obviously looking for the easiest bandwagon to follow because of these 2 posts. You vote me hoping it would develop into something, then when that bandwagon never got off the ground you contradicted your earlier case and unvoted me, moved on to don who was getting flak for the neighbor stuff and voted him, the next current bandwagon. That's why you're obvscum. The fact that instead of looking for your own mistake, you attack the idea of analyzing it is another scumtell. This makes you omgobvscum

So this is the so-called excellent scumslip that bob pulled out of nowhere to drop a wagon on my head with. Allow me a moment to stop my sides bursting from laughter.


...


Okay. The first part of this wagon is a combination of misrep and taking things out of context. The misrep is so because it requires the assumption that by saying that Celeblokis hammer isn't a massive scumtell, that I don't consider it a scumtell at all. The "taking things out of context" part is so because, in the post where I say that the hammer isn't much of a scumtell, I say that Celeblokis reaction to the votes put against him for it gave me a town vibe, enough to counter-balance the scumtell of the hammer.

bob, by purposely not bringing forth the content of the case, but rather quoting post numbers, you have not only made the case difficult to defend, but you have also created an avenue for your scumbuddies to mindlessly jump onto the wagon, with nothing more than "Okay, I see where you are going with this", which Antihero did. Then he pretended to understand by offering to provide the reasons, then lying in wait until someone else did, then pop up and say "Awwww, they beat me to it", which Antihero did.

I totally disagree with CooLDoG.

unvote; vote: zodiark

If Don is scum, then I don't know what he was smoking to come up with all that about the role PM. Seriously. Scum don't do that.

Looking back, I've found that Zodiark is scum. He's changed his vote three times today, each time to the biggest wagon, and the contradictions are terribad.

Vote #1: Hey, celi hammered a townie. Must be scum.

Vote #2: Oops, I guess hammering a townie isn't that bad. Sorry. BTW, oooooh pretty don wagon.

Vote #3: OMFG! Bob's got a bigger wagon than don! MUST JUMP!!!

I get the feel that he isn't serious about any of his votes; which is classic scum behavior.

This post is so full of misrep, I'm surprised that your not trying to convince everyone else that this is someone else doing this. Did you read my posts at all? Did you even look at my reasoning? No, you didn't, because if you did, this post would not have been posted.

Celebloki has a good catch. Given the context of and his voting pattern around this time makes this is a solid case and wagon. I'll keep my vote on Parama until Zodiark has a chance to respond but I don't see anything that could really convince me otherwise.

If that is your intention, then why even wait? I'm at L-3, so theres no concern about scum quickhammering. This is just bad, saying "I find him scummy, but I'm not going to vote for him."

[Bub Bidderskins]

So, Zodiark who do you think is scum now?

I'm curious because that whole post was 100% pure defense (and scummy to boot). And yes I read your posts.

-Bub