Mini1147-Royal Mafia at the Round Table (Game Over!)

[farside22]

Just looked at Pro from the link that LL provide.
Pro: Is there any reason you have had a real point on LL or myself that didn't come from POE or anything indepth this game?

LL: At one point in the game you called Pro spectacular useless town (1) what changed your view and (2) why didn't you look into his meta earlier?

[Prosaurus]

I woulda hammer because I didn't see you being scum. Still don't.
I say LL is scum because;
a) I don't think you're scum
b) I don't remember anything that would make him town (Unlike you)
c) Never liked EA
d) Gut feeling

Apart from these, if they count, no.
Besides, if anyone's making a vote without backing it's me. And I'm going to try and avoid that.

[farside22]

I woulda hammer because I didn't see you being scum. Still don't.
I say LL is scum because;
a) I don't think you're scum
b) I don't remember anything that would make him town (Unlike you)
c) Never liked EA
d) Gut feeling

Apart from these, if they count, no.
Besides, if anyone's making a vote without backing it's me. And I'm going to try and avoid that.

Well I don't think that TS would do the "I win?" thing on a scumbuddy... I dunno, it might all be WIFOM.

This ^ comes off as wishy washy despite your thoughts on EA/LL. I sense reading yesterday the same thing. Where you just I don't know if it's uncertainty or fence sitting.

[Locke Lamora]

Farside: these are both from earlier this year

Town - http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15934

Scum - http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16122

To answer your questions, Pro only had two previously completed games when we started, and he was also obviously still getting used to MS at that stage. From what I remember, I think he did some fairly typical newbie things and I didn't read too much into them as an indicator of his play here. As his game running alongside this was still going for the vast majority of this game, I didn't know his alignment and I also couldn't comment on it anyway even once he flipped. Once the game ended and I could actually use it for context, I looked back at it to see how his play compared, and that was when I noticed big differences, like the post-by-post comments and the effort to actually get the rest of the town to contribute.

That partly answers the other part of your question. The rest is the fact that lately I've been thinking about scum agendas and the absence of scum intent in actions and the way players direct their suspicions and interact with the town. I've been thinking about this a lot since the /in-vitational where I had to choose between Poro and MoI; Poro played one of the most anti-town games I've seen in a while, while MoI did all the things you'd think town should do. At the end of the day, though, Poro was just a bit clueless; there was actually that point where he completely mixed up who'd replaced who and forgot that I'd been in the game the whole time. He didn't do much pro-town, but there was no evidence of him having a hidden agenda either.

That was how I was reading Prosaurus here; he has not done a whole lot of pro-town things, but he wasn't doing things that indicated he had hidden motivation behind them either. For example, he didn't seem to be targeting the wagons that benefitted scum most, or bussing when the time was right to buy towncred. There were also moments like not going after me when he had the chance yesterday that seemed very unlike scum; Quilford wanted me lynched, and it would have been easy for Pro to back my wagon because it was actually consistent with his suspicions. Once I read his meta from the game he was playing at the same time here, read his approach and interactions here, and thought more about Pro's mindset as first-time scum, suddenly 'that doesn't make sense as scum' wasn't as much of an excuse any more. If you contextualise it as first-time scum being unsure and playing everything unnecessarily safe, and even being encouraged to do so by his teammates (which is a frustratingly effective strategy for newbie scum), it fits perfectly. So that's basically how my read evolved from 'Pro is useless but town' to 'Pro's actually been pretty damn scummy'.

[farside22]

Reading your scum game vs town game I'm starting to think I was write in American God when I called you town and knowing that I read you typically as scummy that probably means you were scum that game. Looking at the 2 links you gave me what I found interesting was how as town that you just ran with what you say and voted and didn't go into a lot of details on your findings. Your reasons were why repeat what others say.
scum game lots of details. You posted thoughts on certain post and voted at the time based on those reads.
Looking at your game here looks more like the town link you gave me.

Is there a reason you jump into a game as a replacement and don't really review or why you do review? Is is decided based on the role you are given?

[Prosaurus]

I was nagging people to post in that game because they weren't posting. We don't have that problem here.

[Locke Lamora]

What are you talking about? None of us posted here for days. You didn't seem to be concerned about being close to deadline yesterday either; you just sat there waiting for something to happen. Like you're doing here, in fact. What about my other point? Why were you far more active in reading back and commenting on specific posts in the other game, whereas here you have been very passive for quite some time?

Farside: honestly, I find it can make it difficult to get into a game if you go ahead and try to reread everything in every context when you start, particularly if you replace in a decent amount of time into the game. It's not really something I normally focus on particularly strongly anyway, and I think there are very few players out there who regularly offer a balanced view on the game. Most people have their favourite wagons and particular targets, and I don't see anything wrong with it as a way of playing the game as long as everyone's getting scrutinised one way or another.

I do find myself more inclined to initial major rereads as scum too; in that scum game I linked, PoE and my predecessor's play had basically made the slot pretty obv-scum. I tried to do a major reread to at least make people have some questions about it. In another, I replaced into a newbie in endgame as scum and basically used masses of content to sway people off my slot and onto a newb player. As town, I feel less inclined to do that when I replace in. I tend to reread crucial situations and latch on to scummy things I find; hence the Maxous suspicion when I got into the game.

[Prosaurus]

a)You guys had reasons for being away, and you said you would.
b)I wasn't unless they asked

[Locke Lamora]

You just don't look like you have any interest in working out who's scum. I understand that you like to respond to things that other people ask you, but I've been trying to get you to contribute for ages and you've basically been doing the absolute minimum in response with no effort to determine anything else. To recall something you said on D1:

I don't think this was in RVS.

So it wasn't. It meant that you would rather no-lynch, and, depending on whether it's LyLo, lose the game.

If we were in LyLo, I'd have enough evidence to choose someone.

So here we are, and your evidence is what? That you think TS wouldn't have 'hammered' Farside, and you have a gut scum read on me? That's it, after 50 pages?

One final question: is this really your first game as scum?

[farside22]

I've been pondering this game and reading the meta and going back and forth.
On paper most of what Pro has done felt VI'ish. Here we are in LyLo and he just made minor points without really giving hard facts. I keep going back to TS and seeing what is the point of scum trying to lynch his scum buddy in MyLo.

LL: whether you like it or not I find your inconsistent reads scummy. Its not that I don't expect people to change there views on players, its when they do it or what they say that made them change their views. Calling Dup scum with TS and in a short span calling him town. I feel like you did this based on the conversation going on and see that no one agrees so you switched it to the more favorable person that most were talking about as scum.

I'm going to take a step back and on Saturday when I have actual time to sit down. I will reread a few things (I know in 2 hours even I can't read the whole game) and have my final thoughts down.

[Prosaurus]

@LL Oooh. Eh, I couldn't tell the future. But if it were the deadline in one day and you guys were cross-voting, I'd probably vote you. Gah, I'm so annoyed right now, TS flipping scum creates so much WIFOM. But I do have more reason to vote you.
@Your question; Heck no. I would be a lot better if I were scum.

[neil1113]

No Votes have been placed. So just your friendly reminder that your deadline is in less then 1 week.

Deadline

for Day 6 is

3:00 PM EDT 07/07/11.

[Locke Lamora]

Well, I'm going to be away for a week, and I'm unlikely to be able to post in that time, so I'm just going to have to go ahead and vote. Honestly, I still have doubts, but I don't think there's anything more I can go over that's going to change my mind enough (or anyone else's, for that matter). I'll answer Farside's last couple of points and this will be my last post.

Farside: I can understand that perspective. Perhaps I shouldn't have answered you instead of giving you my instincts on who looked like the most likely buddy. I don't think it was a case of 'Duplicity is obv-scum...now he's obv-town'. I think I made the clear distinction between what I felt based on the interactions and what I felt based on Dup's play.

As for TS trying to lynch his buddy in MyLo, I just have to ask why you think that's a reason for Prosaurus not to be scum but not me. What's the point of me pushing TS-scum yesterday if we were partners? I don't see why you ignore that but keep coming back to TS's push on Prosaurus - which is really not that far removed from his vote on NE with no subsequent scumhunting. I know this is a big WIFOM-fest all round, but I think you need to look elsewhere if you're making that the basis of your decision.

Vote: Prosaurus

[Prosaurus]

VOTE: Locke Lamora
Alright Farside, it's up to you.

[farside22]

VOTE: Locke Lamora

[farside22]

I have never been so happy not to have to carry though with reading on Saturday. I was trying damn hard to find a way not to flip/flop on pro without looking scummy.

Seriously Pro you looked far worse then LL then only town point I could find was the VIish feel and TS weak reasoning to vote you that day.

[Juls]

/cry

We in the dead QT have been sad for a while. It was inevitable.

[Quilford]

This is the part where Twistedspoon comes in and gloats >_>

[Juls]

This is the part where Twistedspoon comes in and gloats >_>

[farside22]

This is the part where Twistedspoon comes in and gloats >_>

Yeah it was his game for sure. He was the one that did that fake hammer. I didn't even know he was going to do it.
The cop claim was shocking and I was more shocked when people thought it was true.
I really didn't want TS to bus NE, that was his call and I just conceded. I guess he was more right then me.

[neil1113]

Lynch achieved! Final lynch scene coming shortly...

Final Vote Count
Day Six

Locke Lamora

(2): Prosaurus, Farside22

Prosaurus

(1): Locke Lamora

farside22

(0):

No Lynch

(0):

Not Voting

(0):

V/LA

(0):

Prodding:

(0):

With

3

alive, it took

2

to lynch.

[neil1113]

"I didn't do it... seriously, believe me!" the voice of Locke Lamora spun around the big table, which was too big for the three of them. It was hard to believe that this started with 13 people around the table, the 13 chairs still sit there remaining empty, and reminding of the hell that the three men have been through.

"It was him!" Locke attempted to accuse the knight next to him, Prosaurus. Prosaurus cried out in defense, "it couldn't have been me! And you know that! It was you!"

Farside stepped back, smiling on the inside. She knew this is exactly what she wanted, both of them were eating out of her hands. "I don't know who to believe" she said, adding fuel to the fire. "I believe you Pro, it must've been Locke. Let's get rid of him." Locke stepped back, and attempted to defend himself. The noose on the table called his name but he refused to give in. However one can only fight for so long before the numbers game took over and Locke Lamora found himself defeated.

Farside asked Pro to pull Locke up on the noose, because she was just a girl and she wasn't strong enough. Pro agreed without thinking, and with his back turned to Farside, he strung up Locke. But before he could turn around, the sound of a blade swinging through the air alarmed him. With no weapon on him as the unspoken agreement stated since Day 2, he was defenseless to Farside's blade crushing through his waist and slicing him cleanly in half. Pro could only glance in harm as the life that was so evident in him at one point, faded quickly to an end and Farside's laughter was the last thing ringing in his ears before he met his final demise...

Locke Lamora -

Vanilla Townie

was

Lynched

on Day Six.

Prosaurus -

Vanilla Townie

was

Cut In Half - Like a Subway Sandwich

on Night Six. (Prosaurus has

End Gamed.

)

GAME OVER

Necessary Evil (Mafia Goon), Twistedspoon (Mafia Roleblocker), and Farside22 (Mafia Goon) win!

Role PM's and Night Actions to come.

Role PM's

Sent to:

Twistedspoon

Spoiler: Mafia Roleblocker

Role Name: Mafia Roleblocker

Your fellow mafia teammates are (username - Goon) and (username - Goon).

Abilities:
1) Your group has one kill per night, and you have one personal roleblock per night. Your vote counts for the choice of who to kill, however you are solely responsibly for who you choose to roleblock. You do not have to perform your roleblock, and if a target is not sent in, I will treat it as a no-choice. If both of your teammates die before you, you will be granted the ability to send in both a role block, and a kill.

2) Your group may talk amongst themselves during the Night Phase only at the QT, which is located at the bottom of this message.

3) During every day, you may cast your vote onto whoever you believe is against you and your team, and try to deceive those vulnerable!

Win Condition: You win when you control 50% of the town and nothing can prevent you from winning.

The game thread is here: [link]
Your Mafia QT is here: [link]
Please respond via PM with the word (random generated word) that you have read and understood your role.

Sent to:

Necessary Evil, Farside22

Spoiler: Mafia Goon

Role Name: Mafia Goon

Your fellow mafia teammates are (username - Goon) and (username - Goon).

Abilities:
1) Your group has one kill per night. Your vote counts for the choice of who to kill, however you are not responsible for who your roleblocker chooses to roleblock. You and your other goon do not have to perform your kill, and if a target is not sent in, I will treat it as a no-kill.

2) Your group may talk amongst themselves during the Night Phase only at the QT, which is located at the bottom of this message.

3) During every day, you may cast your vote onto whoever you believe is against you and your team, and try to deceive those vulnerable!

Win Condition: You win when you control 50% of the town and nothing can prevent you from winning.

The game thread is here: [link]
Your Mafia QT is here: [link]
Please respond via PM with the word (random generated word) that you have read and understood your role.

Sent to:

Javert

Spoiler: One-Shot Day Vig

Role Name: One-Shot Day Vigilante

Abilities:
1) You have a one shot, day kill ability. In order to use it, you simply just post Day Kill: ??? and whoeever you want to kill will die. You do not have to perform your kill at all, or by any certain time. When you choose to do it, you will immediately kill whoever you select and the day will continue on.

2) During every day, you may use your vote to try and lynch those against the town.

Win Condition: You win when all the threats to the town are eliminated.

The game thread is here: [link]
Please respond via PM with the word (random generated word) that you have read and understood your role.

Sent to:

ender241

Spoiler: One-Shot Cop

Role Name: One-Shot Cop

Abilities:
1) You may pm myself one time any name during the night phase. After the night phase is over, you will then get a PM back telling you whether that person is town aligned, or Mafia aligned.

2) During every day, you may use your vote to try and lynch those against the town.

Win Condition: You win when all the threats to the town are eliminated.

The game thread is here: [link]
Please respond via PM with the word (random generated word) that you have read and understood your role.

Sent to:

Juls, Quilford

Klazam

Spoiler: Town Masons

Role Name: Town Mason

Your mason buddy is (username). You both are confirmed innocent to each other.

Abilities:
1) You are able to talk with your buddy during the night phase.

2) During every day, you may use your vote to try and lynch those against the town.

Win Condition: You win when all the threats to the town are eliminated.

The game thread is here: [link]
Your Mason QT is here: [link]
Please respond via PM with the word (random generated word) that you have read and understood your role.

Sent to:

Me=Weird, Maxous, Rhinox, Duplicity

Ozo

, Locke Lamora

Erratus Apathos

, Prosaurus

Spoiler: Vanilla Townies

Role Name: Vanilla Town

Abilities:
1) During every day, you may use your vote to try and lynch those against the town.

Win Condition: You win when all the threats to the town are eliminated.

The game thread is here: [link]
Please respond via PM with the word (random generated word) that you have read and understood your role.

Night Actions

Night One:
Twistedspoon Roleblocked Rhinox
Farside Killed Juls

Night Two:
Twistedspoon did not roleblock anyone
Twistedspoon killed Javert

Night Three:
Twistedspoon Roleblocked Locke Lamora
Farside killed Rhinox

Night Four:
Farside killed Quilford

Night Five:
Farside killed Duplicity

[neil1113]

For anyone interested:

Dead QT

Scum and Masons may post their QT's respectively.

[Twistedspoon]

This is the part where Twistedspoon comes in and gloats >_>

this would've been so much easier had we killed LL over rhinox, Farside

[Twistedspoon]

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/49dCBxEr4bwG