Neon Genesis Evangelion Mafia (Game Over)

[Candle Jack]

Kast is at L-2.

Hold the F up.

Unvote

[Nocmen]

This wagon, while I agree with it, exploded too damn fast. I need to look at these last few wagons, see if theres any patterns with people jumping on at the end

[Kdub]

Day 1 - Vote Count #29

Amrun (0)

-

Kawaii (0)

-

GreyICE (0)

-

Antifinity (0)

-

Candle Jack (0)

-

populartajo (0)

-

Iecerint (0)

-

Nocmen (0)

-

Surye (0)

-

Celebloki (0)

-

malthusis (4)

- ZeL1nK, Surye, Celebloki, Nocmen

Starbuck (0)

-

ace5993 (0)

-

drewoftherushes (0)

-

ZeL1nK (0)

-

StevieT92 (1)

- drewoftherushes

GhostWriter (0)

-

SpyreX (0)

-

Kast (9)

- Lady Lambdadelta, GreyICE, Antifinity, Iecerint, GhostWriter, StevieT92, LobsterCatapult, populartajo, ace5993

vollkan (0)

-

Pomegranate (0)

-

LobsterCatapult (4)

- Amrun, Kast, Pomegranate, SpyreX

Lady Lambdadelta (0)

-

No Lynch (0)

-

Not Voting (5)

- Kawaii, vollkan, Starbuck, malthusis, Candle Jack

23 votes available, 12 votes needed to lynch

Deadline is July 18, ~ 10 am PDT

[Iecerint]

This wagon, while I agree with it, exploded too damn fast. I need to look at these last few wagons, see if theres any patterns with people jumping on at the end

[GreyICE]

Kast is at L-2.

Hold the F up.

Unvote

No.

Lets hammer scum without a claim.

[vollkan]

@Vollkan: No.

I'm saying that Kast's presented line of argument is such:

1) LLD's town reads do not have well presented reasons.
2) Her scum reads match the scum reads of many of her town reads.
3) Therefore she is not engaging in independent reasoning, and all of her reads have no valid reasoning behind them

It's not a line of reasoning, it's bullshit flim-flam you throw around to discredit people.

@Kast:

Is the above accurate?

Kast is at L-2.

Hold the F up.

Unvote

No.

Lets hammer scum without a claim.

I know this sort of largesse is sort of part of your playstyle...but how on earth is this helpful?

[ZeL1nK]

OK, so,

From what I can tell, Candle Jack's problems with Kast stem from his criticism of the voting bloc and his criticism of players in the voting bloc, because it's distracting from scum hunting. GI's criticism of Kast is that he's practically OMGUS-discrediting people and posting walls with no real content.

As far as reading Kast in ISO, I looked over his arguments to do with the voting bloc and his criticisms of the players in the voting bloc.

My only major problem with his criticism of the voting bloc is that there's a lot of IIoA in it. But other than that, his criticisms make sense.

As far as his criticisms of people in the voting bloc go:

Candle Jack-> I couldn't actually find where he decided CJ was an acceptable lynch. There's mentions of him here and there in his ISO, and his original concerns with CJ's play made sense to me, but somewhere between his big reads post in his ISO#11 and his reads in his ISO#19, CJ went from being neutral to being an acceptable lynch, with no real explanation.

LLD-> His arguments here make sense, but he doesn't actually take a stance and just sort of fence sits while calling her an acceptable lynch. The way I read it is Kast is concerned that LLD

could be

scum because her town reads aren't well-supported and her scum reads match those of her town reads. But I don't see how he went from this to LLD being an acceptable lynch.

And I think he has some sort of neutral->town read on the rest of the people in this voting bloc. "Ambivalent" is pretty vague, though.

As for GI's case on Kast, I think a lot of it is overreacting because he wants Kast dead. From this line...

He directly and blatantly laughs at the idea of providing clear logical content, and throws it straight back in my face. He wants to play like this for the entire game.

... I pretty much guessed what the rest of the post was going to be like.

I'm finding Kast only mildly suspicious after reading through his ISO. A lot of his thought processes I can follow, but there are some that just don't make any sense to me. I want proper explanations for his reads and less ambiguity. On a side note, I'm finding it hard to believe that scum would make up a list of reads (ISO#11) that is most neutral or scummy with... one town read... ISO#11 looked like Kast-town genuinely not having any solid reads.

I'd rather Malthusis dead than Kast, tbh.

In any case, I'm not willing to lynch someone who's V/LA until Tuesday without giving him a chance to defend himself.

[Amrun]

Oh, and to prove a point. I support the town block and totally agree with all the things they are saying!

What point are you trying to prove here?

Kast wagon still sucks. Lobster wagon still has cookies - and lobsters!

[GreyICE]

I know this sort of largesse is sort of part of your playstyle...but how on earth is this helpful?

How is it helpful to leave scum alive longer? How is it helpful to unvote them? How is it helpful to see if they get some more time to come up with a brand new claim idiot townies will believe?

It takes seconds to claim, and a lifetime to fabricate the perfect claim.

I want Kast dead. Whyever would I sanction people unvoting because they think he's dying TOO QUICKLY? There's no mass claim situation, no need to coordinate night actions, no reason to hold up a wagon on scum to see if someone has a cool new saying.

I agree short days are bad for the town. We're on page 30. Day hasn't been short.

I see town voting for a scumbag that everyone has had in the back of their minds as scummy, and hasn't really wanted to say anything because a few people have him as town, and he bites the head off anyone who criticizes him, insults and belittles them, AND GETS THE FUCK AWAY WITH IT.

It's not a playstyle disagreement. My problem is that the specific playstyle has a name - SCUM.

And I'm going to fucking lynch that.

[StevieT92]

I think you have a good case against Kast GI...considering nobody is voting with me against ace (who i still maintain is the most scummy person from D1) I will unvote, vote: Kast

Again, more words when I get home but aside from this being bad on its own EVERY FIBER OF MY BEING says the ace vote is a bus.

REMEMBER THIS I BEG THEE

Did anything I wrote change your opinion on Kast at all, or was it all things you noted, and consider either town tell, null tell, or mild scum tell but not overwhelming enough to override other strong town tells you've gotten off him?

Like I said before, he had been aggressively going after people all game, but not really scum hunting. The point you made that really swayed me is that he is really trying to discredit anyone who attacks him, I missed that before.

[SpyreX]

Its hot and that makes me cranky.

I agree that today needs to end.

I'd like to see the claim but, like I said, this is exactly what I predicted. I'll hammer this BUT don't think for a second I'm all up on scum found for sure.

[Iecerint]

I want Kast dead. Whyever would I sanction people unvoting because they think he's dying TOO QUICKLY? There's no mass claim situation, no need to coordinate night actions, no reason to hold up a wagon on scum to see if someone has a cool new saying.

Because town might accumulate late D1 votes more quickly than scum.

[GhostWriter]

The use of the word "might", honestly, makes that too weak to use. It'd be one thing if this were like before with Stevie, but, as GI said, this is page 30. And Kast isn't anywhere close to winning a scummie for best townie this game. He's scummy, on the same level, to me, as Stevie and Ace. It's a good lynch. And a mass of followers onto it show that a lot of town think so as well, even if there is scum hiding on the wagon.

[Iecerint]

I'm just answering his question, because the answer is pretty obvious IMO.

I'm still voting Kast.

[SpyreX]

Why in the hell is this thread so dead?

[Candle Jack]

I unvote for a second, and this wagon churns to a screeching halt.

Vote: Kast

SpyreX, I think its ok to hop on.

[SpyreX]

I still shake my head about this but whatever it takes.

Unvote, Vote: Kast

[Candle Jack]

I still shake my head about this but whatever it takes.

Unvote, Vote: Kast

By my count, Kast is still at L-1. Comments on that given your early breadcrumbs, SpyreX?

Unvote

(Goes back to writing other post.)

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Why in the hell is this thread so dead?

Because I'm still getting my thoughts together.

Also, I keep forgetting to talk in thread after posting in the hydra QT. >.<

---

See this guys?

THIS exemplifies what I expected to happen. Look at whats going on here.

I fail to see how this reaction is a bad thing - the possibility of such a reaction was the secondary reason behind my vote.

One thing I AM quite confident on now - Kast KNOWS that he's not a member of the only Mafia faction (this explains both his defensiveness and his scumhunting, which still reads fairly genuine to me). Whether this is due to being town (unlikely), neutral (entirely possible, Kast's play fits SK very very well), or a multiscum setup* (entirely possible) is an open question - I'm pretty sure it's one of the latter two possibilities given his play.

What's more, most of the Mafia faction Kast isn't in is on the wagon (mostly if not entirely late).

I would still rather lynch Kast than any of the players on the wagon - he's scummy as hell, and I'd be SORELY tempted to policy lynch to ensure no further damage to the town from him even if I had a town read on him.

* - Multiscum speculation really should be in the same category as [REDACTED] and [REDACTED] speculation - don't do it unless there's reason to suspect it - but I've seen too many townies do so to actually go after it. Of course, in this case it doesn't matter, because I know that there's this number 3 running around and I suspect it's a hint to the number of factions - especially given Kdub mod meta in Large Themes. I will not elaborate prior to massclaim.

I, at least, would like to see a claim from Kast prior to lynching him.

- Tar

[SpyreX]

By my count, Kast is still at L-1. Comments on that given your early breadcrumbs, SpyreX?

Breadcrumbs?

I fail to see how this reaction is a bad thing - the possibility of such a reaction was the secondary reason behind my vote.

Which is all well and good but:

Kast (9) - Lady Lambdadelta, GreyICE, Antifinity, Iecerint, GhostWriter,

StevieT92

, LobsterCatapult, populartajo,

ace5993

See those, together? That's the teaparty. They play slappywags but when the chips are down look which way it goes.

[Candle Jack]

By my count, Kast is still at L-1. Comments on that given your early breadcrumbs, SpyreX?

Breadcrumbs?

Lack of early voting, calling the SpyreX hammer, plus the following (usually I'd call it a joke but given that I remember you being vote-happier than you are here I figured there was something to it):

Maybe I have a condition where the combination of v o e t in the correct order causes me physical pain.
Maybe I'm an odd day treestump even day doublevig divisible by 10 jester.
Maybe I'm afraid to voet anyone because it will inevitably lead to the downfall of western civilization.

On a realer note.

Maybe its nice to see some town on page 1 and that makes me happy.

I fail to see how this reaction is a bad thing - the possibility of such a reaction was the secondary reason behind my vote.

Which is all well and good but:

Kast (9) - Lady Lambdadelta, GreyICE, Antifinity, Iecerint, GhostWriter,

StevieT92

, LobsterCatapult, populartajo,

ace5993

See those, together? That's the teaparty. They play slappywags but when the chips are down look which way it goes.

Nonono - what I'm saying is that my secondary motivation for the Kast wagon was because I WANTED to see whether a couple of players (LC, Stevie, ace, etc.) jumped on the wagon.

It's really interesting seeing which players immediately took to the fence on Kast (vollkan, Celebloki, malthusis) and which ones piled on late (LC, Stevie, ace). REALLY interesting that. Especially in light of my last comment. I should probably get around to tabulating who has which reaction.

---

In other news, CJ heads would like to make sure that this day doesn't end before Tar/Ludi can come to a consensus about certain matters unrelated to the list.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

EBWOP: Herp derp quote tag fail.

- Tar

Fixed

[SpyreX]

Nah nothing besides changing things up a bit. I'll say any secret powers I may possess have nothing to do with being a hammerer or voting mechanics.

[vollkan]

I know this sort of largesse is sort of part of your playstyle...but how on earth is this helpful?

How is it helpful to leave scum alive longer? How is it helpful to unvote them? How is it helpful to see if they get some more time to come up with a brand new claim idiot townies will believe?

It takes seconds to claim, and a lifetime to fabricate the perfect claim.

I want Kast dead. Whyever would I sanction people unvoting because they think he's dying TOO QUICKLY? There's no mass claim situation, no need to coordinate night actions, no reason to hold up a wagon on scum to see if someone has a cool new saying.

I agree short days are bad for the town. We're on page 30. Day hasn't been short.

I see town voting for a scumbag that everyone has had in the back of their minds as scummy, and hasn't really wanted to say anything because a few people have him as town, and he bites the head off anyone who criticizes him, insults and belittles them, AND GETS THE FUCK AWAY WITH IT.

It's not a playstyle disagreement. My problem is that the specific playstyle has a name - SCUM.

And I'm going to fucking lynch that.

I know that self-doubt and criticism are kind of alien concepts to you, but if you imagine for even a moment that you might be wrong about Kast, it makes sense to wait for a claim so that you can ensure you are lynching on maximum information.

[ZeL1nK]

I'd still much rather see Malthusis dead than Kast.

#721 and no subsequent post is really making me consider the possibility that he's lurking while hoping the lynch goes through without him needing to have any input on it.