Newbie 1117(Town Wins)

[BBmolla]

Blue = VT, sorry old habits die hard.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Oh lol, first post isn't updated so I saw his name on there and I was like "Hm where has he been?"

In addition to the points I mentioned earlier, I'm guessing there was scum on the kad wagon. BB's vote seems like the most probable candidate. He seemed to vote kad more for being unhelpful than being a true scumread. He also contradicted himself about his read on kad: first saying "he's a town member that doesn't care," then saying "I'm getting a dumb read," then saying "he's my scummiest read."

He seemed like a town member who didn't care, due to him being pretty dumb and unhelpful. He was my scummiest read however, mainly because everyone else seemed town to me. I wasn't lying.

@bv: If I were to be scum, who do you think my partner would be? And if I were to pop up blue, who would be your immediate suspects?

Also, if it's going to cause issues, we can lynch me today just to prove my innocence. It'll be a ML, but it'll clear some things up and allow people to get past me as the obvious scumread.

Thoughts?

I didn't like when Kad said 'Vote me then' I don't like it when you make comments like the bolded either.

[BBmolla]

Well it's quite obvious a few players are absolutely adamant about lynching me, and nothing is going to change that. I'd prefer to lynch scum, but those certain few, namely verydark and bvoigt to an extent, are tunneling the crap out of me. If I'm literally so scummy that everyone else doesn't matter, then I'd like to see their reactions when I flip VT.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Don't take it to heart BB, you're still here today when you said something similar in day 1 - I'm sure there were times you were fairly certain you'd be dead by now

[bvoigt]

@bv: If I were to be scum, who do you think my partner would be?

I'd say Toasty. I find him scummy independently, but you'd also make a fair amount of sense as buddies.

And if I were to pop up blue, who would be your immediate suspects?

Toasty and Voidedmafia. This would be mostly process of elimination, since I have town reads on Muffin, SRG, and verydark. All 3 of them have been making logical points and sincerely scumhunting.

[Voidedmafia]

The points for and against BB are still too close to move him to any part of the spectrum. Though, getting yourself lynched just to say "I TOLD YOU SO! HA HA HA HA!" is not a good idea. Got a better reason for it?

I still want verydark to comment on his 350, as well as SRG's post about it.

[ToastyToast]

@bv: Yes, the hmm had a lot to do with verydark's post showing criticism of the kad lynch. It came off as if he knew 100% that kad would flip town, and suggested that the reasons for voting kad were terrible, when, in my opinion, the reasons for voting BB were significantly worse.

ANYWAYS, I re-read verydark and decided to drop my suspicions of him. My 2 biggest suspects are bvoigt and voided. bv, i feel you are faking content/active lurking. Voidedmafia seems overly concerned with what people think of him (what do you think about my hammer?). The whole "I'd vote me" came off as an attempt to distance people with a scum-read on redcolbalt, and suggest to them to drop it as well.

@SRG: For me, gameplay errors (unless its an outright slip) is more of a null-tell. Not to mention we're in a Newbie game where everyone is going to be trying a new approaches to a game.

[BBmolla]

The points for and against BB are still too close to move him to any part of the spectrum. Though, getting yourself lynched just to say "I TOLD YOU SO! HA HA HA HA!" is not a good idea. Got a better reason for it?

Well that wasn't the only reason. It was also so verydark could actually scumhunt other people excluding myself. And because I've kind of used up my usefullness as a townie, considering I probably won't be Night Killed because of all of the suspicion cast upon me.

I'm really curious about the reasoning behind #350, I'd like to hear a response from verydark as well.

[Voidedmafia]

ANYWAYS, I re-read verydark and decided to drop my suspicions of him. My 2 biggest suspects are bvoigt and voided. bv, i feel you are faking content/active lurking. Voidedmafia seems overly concerned with what people think of him (what do you think about my hammer?). The whole "I'd vote me" came off as an attempt to distance people with a scum-read on redcolbalt, and suggest to them to drop it as well.

I asked Muffin because, as you can tell, I took the hammer out from under him. He had expressed that he preferred not to be in that position, but I still wished to check if he had anything else to say about it (Does he still feel glad that he didn't hammer? Does he think me hammering instead of him was hasty? etc. I didn't ask the questions, I know, but that was the general intent).

As for the last part, are you sure you're talking about me? Because Ive never said "I'd vote me" this game. At all. Where the hell did you get that from?

[Voidedmafia]

EBWOP: oh, now I see what you mean. Do note that I hadn't realized I was replacing Red at the time (I only checked the PM to see what my role was), so I was looking at it as if I wasn't replacing for him.

That being said, I still stand by it.

[ToastyToast]

huh? who did you think you were replacing?

[drmyshottyizsik]

.|Vote count 9|.

BBmolla-1(bvoigt)
VoidedMafia-0
SomeRandomGuy-0
verydark-0
ToastyToast-0
zMuffinMan-1(SomeRandomGuy)
bvoigt-0

Not Voting-0

With 7 alive it takes 4 votes to lynch

If there are any problems tell me.

[ToastyToast]

@shotty: Could you revise the player list to show who Voidedmafia replaced?

[Voidedmafia]

huh? who did you think you were replacing?

Actually...I never bothered to figure it out at the time. *scratches head and laughs nervously*

Though, I did start right from page 1 and never looked at the later pages until I got them, and I forgot if dry actually said who I was replacing in the queue, so I guess I was posting as if I had some super-special posting spot somehow in a Newbie game.

In short, I really don't friggin know.

[ToastyToast]

Well, if I wasn't Cobalt's replacement and I replaced in, yes.

Now I'M confused

[Voidedmafia]

One sec, lemme check where that specific post is.

[Voidedmafia]

Look, if we were about 12 pages in the past (or 7, if you want to go from when I replaced), I was in the game, and I read your case on Cobalt, I would've voted for him.

Still, it'd be "I'd vote my replacee" rather than "I'd vote myself". [/semantics]

[ToastyToast]

How can you claim to find your replacee scummy, then claim that you at the time had no idea who you were replacing?

[Voidedmafia]

Because when I said that Cobalt was scummy and I'd vote, I didn't know who I was replacing. When I did find out, I still stuck with what I believed about him--namely, that he was scummy. I'm not going to try and say "well, here's how this looks town" where there's no possible way I can do so, or if I believe I cannot. It's stupid and wastes time.

Do I believe Cobalt to be scummy? Yes. Do I know that that means that I'M possibly scummy because I replaced him? Yes, I know. But I'm just gonna have to deal with it and work my way through it.

[zMuffinMan]

OK

So taking a quick look through the D1 votecounts, I think these are the most telling counts.

VC6:

kad2361-3(SomeRandomGuy, BBmolla,

Haze

)L-2
BBmolla-2(

kad2361

, verydark)
ToastyToast-2(bvoigt, zMuffinMan)
VoidedMafia-1(ToastyToast)
Not Voting-1(VoidedMafia)

VC7:

kad2361-4(SomeRandomGuy, BBmolla,

Haze

, ToastyToast)L-1
BBmolla-4(

kad2361

, verydark, bvoigt, voidedmafia)L-1
ToastyToast-1(zMuffinMan)

--

It's entirely possible that both BB and kad are townies here (well, kad is obviously, but just continuing my line of thought from yesterday), in which case I think scum is split between the wagons (it's so very, very unlikely that both scum are are on the same wagon because it's just illogical to push one mislynch over another and they're more likely distancing). To me, this would mean Toast is the scum on the kad wagon, and I'm not all too sure who his partner would be on the BB wagon. Voided or bv most likely.

Or, it's possible that BB is scum and kad was a counter-wagon. But since the BB wagon only really developed at the end of the day, this would implicate Toast or Voided as scum if BB is scum. Not so much Voided though, just because it was an unnecessary move considering I was going to most likly hammer kad. I don't think SRG would be scum with BB here. SRG was on the kad wagon much before it became a counter-wagon to BB's. I guess it's also entirely possible that BB's partner is bussing him here. With the knowledge that I'd be more inclined to hammer kad over BB, it might even be a smart idea to distance like that.

--

I need to do so ISOs. Fun.

[verydark]

I still want verydark to comment on his 350, as well as SRG's post about it.

What's more to comment about? I was expressing my concern over the fact that the mislynch was totally due to the fact that Kad wasn't posting/contributing and lurking. I felt that BB's actions were obviously scummy, whereas Kad was just being unreliable. I would base my vote off of information (or a hunch, if you will) over just a vote to get rid of a non-contributing player.

Clearly, there is some truth to my logic, as we just witnessed.

When I replaced in, we were past RVS, so I cast my vote on BB, as he was appearing very scummy as outlined in Post #169https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 3#p3137803.

No one else seemed MORE scummy, so I never changed my vote. I love how "tunnelling" is the default excuse for being confident in your vote, like it's a bad thing.

As for voided, I'm going to ISO and see if there is any previous scum tells I missed, because the random change in vote to hammer Kad doesn't sit well with me.

...as for Haze, I did re-read all his posts to see what may have caused his demise, but turned up empty handed. He had a minor argument against BB, but then jumped on the wagon with the Kad votes.

I'm leery of BB's VT claim, because that would mean there are 2 more VT's left, but 2 mafia, and 2 PRs. So out of the 3 people whose roles have been revealed, they are

ALL

VT? I don't like those odds.

[SomeRandomGuy]

@Muffin - It's also worth pointing out that prior to his vote on Kad, Redcobalt was his first choice target he put Kad at L-1 along with BB as his second scum suspect. So he was forcing a second claim. What I would say is that you're right, the other scum member is likely on the other wagon, with how late toast joined the the Kad wagon, if he's scum it seems like he waited a while to create distance before hopping on the other wagon. Scum wouldn't have both piled onto the BB lynch in the begininning they'd want one away from it knowing it was a mislynch.

[ToastyToast]

Will people please stop misrepping the fact that I STARTED THE KAD WAGON BUT SHOTTY MISSED MY VOTE.
Your operating on the idea that my vote was scummy due to the timing and yet I was the first person to vote him.

[Voidedmafia]

I still want verydark to comment on his 350, as well as SRG's post about it.

What's more to comment about? I was expressing my concern over the fact that the mislynch was totally due to the fact that Kad wasn't posting/contributing and lurking. I felt that BB's actions were obviously scummy, whereas Kad was just being unreliable. I would base my vote off of information (or a hunch, if you will) over just a vote to get rid of a non-contributing player.

never mind that what he did try to contribute was scummy.

Clearly, there is some truth to my logic, as we just witnessed.

Even though Kad was going to be lynched anyways?

When I replaced in, we were past RVS, so I cast my vote on BB, as he was appearing very scummy as outlined in Post #169https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 3#p3137803.

And I called that town...what's your point?

No one else seemed MORE scummy, so I never changed my vote. I love how "tunnelling" is the default excuse for being confident in your vote, like it's a bad thing.

Being confident in your vote is fine, and no one can doubt that D1.

However, sticking to someone who has been shown to be nullscum at best at that point, and not trying to further pursue any other options (at the time, at least) can sure look like tunneling. And we had no indication you were going follow up what you said the previous day, so where does that leave us?

As for voided, I'm going to ISO and see if there is any previous scum tells I missed, because the random change in vote to hammer Kad doesn't sit well with me.

Remind me again, how was it random? It was abrupt, not random.

SRG: Are you talking about me?

[bvoigt]

@bv: Yes, the hmm had a lot to do with verydark's post showing criticism of the kad lynch. It came off as if he knew 100% that kad would flip town, and suggested that the reasons for voting kad were terrible, when, in my opinion, the reasons for voting BB were significantly worse.

Eh, it didn't read like he knew 100%. After all, he did say "I guess we will see if you made the right choice."

ANYWAYS, I re-read verydark and decided to drop my suspicions of him. My 2 biggest suspects are bvoigt and voided. bv, i feel you are faking content/active lurking. Voidedmafia seems overly concerned with what people think of him (what do you think about my hammer?). The whole "I'd vote me" came off as an attempt to distance people with a scum-read on redcolbalt, and suggest to them to drop it as well.

Are you able to give examples of this active lurking?

How can you claim to find your replacee scummy, then claim that you at the time had no idea who you were replacing?

This, on the other hand, is a good point. Voided mentioned he was Red's replacement only a handful of posts after his first one.