Mafia 137 - Neruzian Era Mafia SERIAL KILLER WIN!

[edmund.angles]

/confirm

VOTE: zMuffinMan -Just my way of saying hello.

[edmund.angles]

Like Tomie I did not like Bowser's post:
Bowser was wishy-washy on the subject of Mastin's reads.

UNVOTE: VOTE: Bowser

@mastin: Do you mean that your early list was a type of reaction fishing?

@Tomie: Why does Mastin being town have anything to do with zMuffin and Bowser's alignment?

[edmund.angles]

@zMuffin: Please don't answer questions for other people.

But like, if you agreed with tomie about bowser.... why are you asking tomie about bowser?

I agreed(agree) Bowser was scummy.
I did(do) not see any link between the alignment of Mastin and Bowser, which was what I was asking about.

@Bowser: If you accuse me of being scum you need reasons. Tell us what they are.

@Mastin: Even if you find me scummy, you could still answer my question:
Where you reaction fishing?

[edmund.angles]

@Phoebus: Was your last post a confirmation of your random vote?

[edmund.angles]

For the record, if you call me town, you too can earn a free pass into my town reads. It's that simple. Do it.

@zMuffin: Seriously?

[edmund.angles]

Damnit, you are joking, zMuffin. Otherwise it would be too damn scummy.

[edmund.angles]

I'll join the mastin wagon:
UNVOTE: BowserVOTE: Mastin2

Mastin is scummy because he doesn't commit to anything concrete - all he does is to slap up a post and say, "See how scummy it is!". Then everyone can read into it what they want and there is no crap-logic to tear apart.

And if he's town, it is no great loss to lose a player that pulls a list out of his ass and then convinces himself it's true.

[edmund.angles]

Jumping on a wagon that already has a bunch of people on it (many with no or bad reasons) for shit-reasoning like that is bad.

The other people on the Mastin wagon must decide to stay or leave as they see fit and defend that position. I don't see what that has to do with me.

How do you expect a game to start exactly? Mastin's "reads" were a way to generate discussion and get us moving from RVS.

I didn't mind the list, since I expected it to be a discussion starter. But Mastin has later claimed to be dead serious.

No, that doesn't mean my list was not serious. It was dead serious, still is.

While they have clogged up other venues for scumhunting by generating too much discussion about the reason for his "reads", this was not Mastin's fault.

Yes it is his fault. We were quickly out of RVS but he kept pushing his list.

He hasnt given full reasoning behind his comments for a reason as well (probably to gauge people's reactions) and that should be rather obvious, especially to someone who has been at MS.net for as long as you have.

That is bull-shit, he hasn't given

any

reasons. Nor has he questioned anyone.
What he does is to get everyone to reconsider a post from a scum position.
It casts suspicion but makes sure

he

doesn't say anything he has to defend later.
This kind of dodging is damn scummy.

Your last line, about it not being a great loss if Mastin is town, is just awful. You try to exonerate yourself from responsibility by making it out as though it would not matter if he flips town because supposedly he is a hinderance to town either way. That is a classic scum move, and you are now my top scumread.

Mastin is scummy, but I don't pretend like I'm sure Mastin is scum, so in voting I must also consider the mastin-town possibility. Even if he is not scum, he is a hazard.

@Bowser: Damnit, reasons! tell us why you think I'm scummy and the mastin wagon is shit.

[edmund.angles]

@zMuffin: The difference between open 305 and now? It was obvoius you were joking by page 3 and by page 4 you said it yourself.
I have no problems with people acting weird to get discussion started, but if you insist you are serious still by page 11 I'm gonna take it at face value.

@mastin: How could I think it would be easy to get you lynched when I've seen the massive beating Tomie and Hiplop have taken for suggesting the same?

[edmund.angles]

@mastin: Saying you are 'subtle' is just the positive spin of 'not commiting to anything concrete'. I see it as a scum trait of dodging responsability.
That said, you do seem to have abandoned that tactic, first with Pine, now me, and that takes the sting out of my grief with you.

about the zMuffinMan thing: I questioned zMuffinMan about a remark that would have been scummy as hell if he had been serious: Him offering hiplop a townread in exchange for a town-read on zMuffin. Then I realized he was not being serious. Since neither Mastin no Hiraki got that I guess it was not obvious.

I think I can find a better place for my vote: UNVOTE: Mastin2
Bowser is still a good lynch-candidate VOTE: Bowser

[edmund.angles]

@mastin: No foreshadowing in the one post I had before I voted you? That is possibly the weakest point I have ever heard. And on top of that it is also wrong.

@mastin: Do you mean that your early list was a type of reaction fishing?

Also look up the definition of a policy lynch, it is voting someone for out-of-game reasons.
Finally only a moron would think you would back down from anything.

Bowser ISO:
1. confirm
2. Not liking mastin's list but still has the same reads (also based on no gameplay).
3. Blindly sheeping mastin even though he didn't like his list.
4. edmund is scum(no reason given)
5. Meta is bad (no reason given)
--edmund is scum because mastin's wagon is shit (no reason given)
6. VLA
7. edmund is scum (no reason given)

Bowser is lurking and what little content there is consists exclusively of sheeping mastin.

[edmund.angles]

about hiplop: Not seeing the scumminess, just the newbness.

about mastin: Not buying his claim. But lying about his role to dominate fits with my ego-tripper read on him.
Need to confirm my read though, could someone post some links to recent games with mastin?

[edmund.angles]

I'm not happy with the hiplop lynch and it seems a few on the wagon are settling for second best.

How about we post the people we are willing lynch in a prioritized list. Then perhaps we can find the majority people will be the least dissattisfied with. I'll do it, at least.

1. Bowser
2. Hiraki
3. Mastin
4. TF
5. chkflip

@maxous : I tried following your case on hiplop, but it made no sense to me, either a failure of the case, the communication or my conprehension.
Could you try again?

@zMuffin: TF is scummy for his wishy-washy lurky ways, have you got anything to add that I need to take into consideration?

[edmund.angles]

@somerandomguy: just give me one and I'll be happy. Everyone decides the level of disclosure they think is right.

[edmund.angles]

V/LA untill Saturday

I'll post from mobile if I get connection.

Come on people, join the Bowser wagon. Let us roast the sheep and eat mutton to our heart's content.

[edmund.angles]

Ok, I'm back.

I don't think we're getting any nearer a lynch. How about this:

Proposal: When we reach page 27 we take the top two voted and lock them. Then everyone votes one or the other.
In the event of a tie the first player to have a lower number of votes drops out as a lynch-candidate.

Reviewing max's case on hiplop:
I have looked at max's hiplop case of the three lies, and I find it ok, hiplop is shifting his story.
I can see it as reading-laziness/self-indulgent reading of newb town, though.

[edmund.angles]

@GI and zMuffin: Can you please vote for someone else than TF. It won't happen.

[edmund.angles]

@GI: I consider TF a better lynch-candidate than either Pappum's or hiplop and at present on par with Bowser, that is not the point. The point is that this day has to end and TF is the smallest wagon with active players on it.

In fact, if you go Bowser, I'll help you with either TF or Hiraki D2, your choice. Might just do it anyway.

[edmund.angles]

@lewarcher82: Too bad you are not the mod, then. We can't count on extension.
@Hiraki: Tomorrow, today it's just gonna distract.

[edmund.angles]

@GI: How about I haven't actually played in a large normal before nor a game with a deadline suspension.

[edmund.angles]

TF is just as bad as Bowser and his wagon is bigger.
UNVOTE: Bowser
VOTE: Toon Fighter

Mod, what happens if at deadline we don't reach majority? No-lynch or the person with more votes gets lynched?

He makes a show of his uneasyness to vote Hiplop - he could just read the rules.

unvote, vote: hiplop

A lynch is better than a no-lynch

Again, a show of how reluctant he is to be on the wagon.

[edmund.angles]

The case on TF: GreyIce 216, zMuffin 442, me 812.
My summary:
He doesn't like the size of the mastin wagon but doesn't bother to unvote it himself.
He has only sheeped popular opinion the entire game.
His attitude towards mastin's claim sounds to me like, 'I don't think he should be lynched--unless you guys do, off course'.
He is making a show of how little he wants to be on the hiplop wagon.

PS: How do you make those nifty links to post numbers?

[edmund.angles]

If the people on wagons by themselves would just join one of the two main wagons we would get a lynch.

[edmund.angles]

@GreyIce: I have a feeling I'm not gonna like your method of confirming me.

First of all, GreyIce must learn how to count. And the people sheeping him must learn to re-read.

@GI and zMuffin: Can you please vote for someone else than TF. It won't happen.

At the time of the above post Bowser had 6 votes, making him the biggest wagon, TF had two. Bowser had gained momentum since the votecount.

Clearly I was wrong about TF not gonna happen.
I'm gonna claim newbness on Large Normal on this one. Never saw a deadline suspension before and was getting frustrated with everyone on their own little wagons as the deadline and No Lynch got closer.

about me 'question dodging':

So no deadline.

Edmund.angles will now vote for ToonFighter or give me good solid reasons for believing he's town or I kill him today, and I WILL GET HIM LYNCHED.

First of all reading GI's post again I'm a bit unsure if he, him, HIM refers to me or TF.
Read it as edmund, edmund, EDMUND

That not a question, that's an ultimatum. I don't respond well to people who don't say the magic word.
I gave GI good solid reasons to believe I'm town, that I believed the deadline was approching. In my own little world I was the only resposible player actually trying to get a lynch while everyone else twiddled their thumbs waiting for the deadline.

@GI: I consider TF a better lynch-candidate than either Pappum's or hiplop and at present on par with Bowser, that is not the point. The point is that this day has to end and TF is the smallest wagon with active players on it.

In fact, if you go Bowser, I'll help you with either TF or Hiraki D2, your choice. Might just do it anyway.

Edmund's plea to me.

Thats not a plea - that is a deal to get a lynch to happen. I propose lynching people I already want to lynch.
GreyICE counterdeal consists of capsraging ultimatums. No deal then.

[edmund.angles]

*cough*

I have a way to mod-confirm him, but I need a few more townies voting for him first.

@GreyIce: I have a feeling I'm not gonna like your method of confirming me.

You don't like the method of being investigated to be confirmed about your role? Sounds fishy to me.

He meant he was gonna get me confirmed by lynching me.

[edmund.angles]

I think scum would either defend or bus TF, So I'm not going to sheep Grey.

Not if they are trying lie low and prevent any links between themselves the person getting lynched.
Refusing to take responsibility for the lynch by moving onto Empking who had no chance to be lynched is blatant anti-town play.

To be fair, it's not like Maxous tried to hide it. The fact he was so blatant about it, over and over, makes me think Maxous is town. He tried way too hard to prevent the toon fighter lynch and even moved off the only other viable lynch at the time (hiplop) and onto Empking (??????), still saying he didn't like the toon fighter wagon (and would be happy lynching 5/6 on the wagon). That's not scum play. That's just wrong-town play.

Maxous had talked about lynching hiplop for a long time. I find it hard to believe that a town-Maxous would see so compelling town reads i hiplop play at the end, that they could not at least accept his lynch as a compromise over a lynch Maxous really thought was bad.

GI's case on me was plain stupid and misrepresenting.
This case is good:
VOTE: Maxous

PS: Please vig mastin even more. He has now preformed two instances of blatant anti-town play (fakeclaim + attitude towards No lynch).

[edmund.angles]

EBWOP: Man my spelling was bad to a point of not being readable.

Maxous had talked about lynching hiplop for a long time. I find it hard to believe that a town-Maxous would see so compelling town reads in hiplop's play at the end, that Maxous could not at least accept hiplop's lynch as a compromise over a lynch Maxous really thought was bad.

[edmund.angles]

And being on the receiving end of a case that was misrepresenting you, one would think you would check the next case to see of there are any misreps there.
But you did'nt because if you looked, they are not hard to spot.

My vote doesn't rely on GI's case, but mostly on your attitude towards the hiplop and TF wagons at deadline. Ironically, zMuffin convinced me more than GI did.
That said I don't really see the misreps.
How about you point out the misreps.
Demonstrate how obvious they are.
Then hit people over the head for not seeing them.

Pretty much everyone knows Mastin is town by this stage.

No we don't, how can you get a read on someone if they can do whatever they want and people chalk it up to VI play. And if he is town, do you really want him to be around as a loose cannon at LyLo?

[edmund.angles]

We could have both either.
Still I don't think there is much point in speculating on it at this stage.
VOTE: Edmund Angles

GI's case on me was plain stupid and misrepresenting.

mm-hmm.
And being on the receiving end of a case that was misrepresenting you, one would think you would check the next case to see of there are any misreps there.

So Maxous considers GI's case on me crap, yet he votes me without stating a case independently


also on another note: Agree with mastin - Empking looks bad for the attack on Vero.
Vero gives an actual reason and promises more in stead of sheeping - Empking attacks him for it.

[edmund.angles]

Promises are nice
If people don't deliver
then you can attack

[edmund.angles]

Also, gut is a valid reason for holding a vote IMO, it's just useless for convincing others.

[edmund.angles]

Nice misrep quoting half the speculation.

Ironically, zMuffin convinced me more than GI did.

?
Muffinman was arguing against my lynch last I seen.

1. The rest of the quote was not important for my point. I included a fair bit of your argument I think.
2. I was convinced that you were scummy by zMuffin's arguments you were bad town. zMuffin argued against your lynch, hence the ironic part.

And if he is town, do you really want him to be around as a loose cannon at LyLo?

You're justifing his town-flip before it happens.

Now you're being hipocritical by not including the sentence before.

..., how can you get a read on someone if they can do whatever they want and people chalk it up to VI play.

I want to get rid of him because he lies and would rather see a No Lynch if his favourite Lynch doesn't go through. He's just as likely as anyone else to be scum, but we will never get a read on him. Other people we will. Why are you convinced he's town?

As for an explanation:
why is Hiraki('s slot) scum?
Or have you changed your mind?

I've changed my mind.
Couldn't understand why he wanted the hiplop lynch so bad.
Hiraki was a gut read, there wasn't anything when I looked closer. Not agreeing with me isn't scummy.

You said it was 'crap'. As it turns out the point he brought about you was wrong though I did'nt realise it at the time.

You're being a bit sensitive about words. You agreed to 'plain stupid and misrepresenting', I think that translates roughly into 'crap'.

You still haven't told me what GI's misreps against you are. Where does twist the facts?

[edmund.angles]

The chainsaw accusation is accurate - you said you were happy lynching 5 out of 6 on his wagon in the quote zDenek mentioned.
Just because GI's quote is not the best demonstration of the chainsaw doesn't make it a misrep.
I don't know what to make of you mentioning GI as SK, but there is no misrepresentation of facts on his part.
I plainly disagree that GI has misrepresented you.

Now edward - 669. Why would stating a gut scum read on Hiraki distract the town?

The post is a response to this one.

Edmund.

If you don't like my play, you should do more than just say it's bad.

1. Hiraki wanted proper reasons which would require a re-read. I felt doing so would distract me from the scum reads I had a chance of getting lynched. It would also confuse people about who I was pushing. When I finally did the re-read I found nothing.

And do you still think Bowser and chkflip is scum?

2. Scummy rather than scum, but yes.

[edmund.angles]

Neruz just PM'ed me. He overlooked that I had lost my vote during the night. I see he has also edited the votecounts to reflect this.

[edmund.angles]

Does the town want to know something interesting? Maxous never quoted or responded to his 'strong town read' once.

@Maxous: Found this one. That is a misrep, since the quotation marks imply you directly said he was a strong town read. You did not. Not that serious though.

Mastin is town because Pheobus/lewarcher was trying to get rid of him in a way that is quite unlikely to be bussing.

Why is it unlikely to be bussing?

[edmund.angles]

Why is it unlikely to be bussing?

Cause Lewarcher pushed for Mastin to be vigged. That's not a good way to bus, you don't much town cred for it and lewarcher would likely be clever than that.

Or maybe he wouldn't, or maybe he would be even more clever and know you would think that!
No srsly, his seconding someone elses advice for the vig is to unimportant for mastin's survival probability to give me a tell.

And this - pushing him for such reasons as 'I don't want to go through such an ISO' not really how you bus.

Considering he didn't post very much and flaked, I think he was just being honest that he didn't have the time to read mastin's walls.

But okay I do see your point. Question is: assuming he is town, why Edmund of all people? Who was he pushing that the mafia would'nt to vote? CSL? Hiraki?

It's WIFOM

[edmund.angles]

Edmund - do you think actually think Mastin is scum? Y/N

Null-read, leaning scum. His attitude towards No Lynch at deadline was scumvenient.

@Maxous: What are your top scum reads?

[edmund.angles]

I have house guest and I showing her around the city. Thought I would have more time to post but I don't:-)

V/LA until Wednesday.

[edmund.angles]

I'm back.
Just to be clear, I would have lynched Maxous if I had had the vote.

@GI: Could you please full claim, role name + flavour? I would also like you to give an short account of your thought process during the game in light of your role.

[edmund.angles]

Mastin has shot way up on my scumlist.
D2 he went from me being conf-scum to being conf-town because my vote was stolen. That complete reversal seemed disgenuine to me.
But if he absolutely couldn't see my vote being stolen with me being scum, fair enough. That isen't the case, though.

Any town day power (with the possible exception of dayvig--depends on who they target ) is claimed immediately.

If someone fails to claim the power, it's therefore a scum power.

Yet in stead of seeing GI's vote-stealer claim as scum read, he sees it as a town read.
This just doesn't add up.

VOTE: mastin2

I could go for DX or chkflip, too.

[edmund.angles]

@zMuffin: Could you recap why you want pappums lynched?

@GI: Why are you conf-town?

[edmund.angles]

@Zdenek about his zMuff vote: You're making to big a deal out of a joke.

That pretty much means that if he's lynched and flips scum, I'm getting lynched next day phase.

@sorgster: Are you saying that you find zMuff scummy but don't want to vote him because Zdenek will go after you next?

[edmund.angles]

I can go with sorgster - he seems to protective of his own hide.

VOTE: sorgster

@zMuff: Last time you mentioned pappum's before you voted him you said he wasn't scum. Just tell me what has changed you mind or why you think you were wrong here:

Actually, pappums isn't scum. No way toonfighter jumped on that wagon to bus him. That was a counterwagon.

[edmund.angles]

I can go with sorgster - he seems to protective of his own hide.

VOTE: sorgster

@zMuff: Last time you mentioned pappum's before you voted him you said he wasn't scum. Just tell me what has changed you mind or why you think you were wrong here:

Actually, pappums isn't scum. No way toonfighter jumped on that wagon to bus him. That was a counterwagon.

Look at my other games, I always do that lol.

Give me an example, then.

mastin's case is based on me disagreeing with him on reads and on me finding him scummy, except maybe this:

I could re-state it, and then add to it his subsequent play, which didn't get better, but in fact only got worse. Especially him taking full advantage of him being called confirmed town--he milked that, and in hindsight, it's really effing obvious.

Which is just wrong, I never 'milked' mastin calling me confirmed town.
And this,

-GreyICE discrediting. (DEFINITELY not pro-town.)

Also wrong, I asked GI to say why he was conf-town in stead of just stating it.

mastin is scummy:
mastin: EA is conf-scum.
EA: I had my vote stolen.
GI: EA is probably not scum.
HL: I'm gonna sheep anything GI does
mastin: No, no, no, indeed EA is not scum, he is completely confirmed town.

[edmund.angles]

@ckhflip: Your points might have been covered by mastin, but I assume you don't agree with everything. Could you restate the points against me you think are the best.

If we're feeling VERY generous, we can give him this, too. But only if you consider the fact that TF is on the scumlist to be a pro-town move. If you look at the placement (4/5, perfect place for a buddy, eh?), it really falls apart.

Agree, it doesn't mean anything one way or the other.

ESPECIALLY when paired with Blatant TF Defense. (Guess what? TF DID happen.)

I tried to get people to vote for the biggest wagons as deadline approched, later I offered to lynch TF the following day. When the tides changed and the TF wagons was largest I was being non-hipocritical and changed to TF.

I'd love to get David lynched, but Edmund's 1: a larger wagon, and 2: C'mon, he's textbook opportunistic scum, sheeping GreyICE (now confirmed town).

If a town-read is already voting someone, that is an additional reason to vote that someone. And I did not 'sheep' GI- I joined the wagon for my own reasons.

[edmund.angles]

Hmm, if sorgster is newbie to the extent that he hasn't actually finished a game, I can see him as newbie-protective-of-own-hide rather than scum-protective-of-own-hide.

UNVOTE:

edmund: The Muffin vote is horribad (I mean, come on, MUFFIN? The guy's an easier read than a book this game. And town. So very town.)

That might have been a point, if my zMuffin vote hadn't been a random vote before he actually did anything. You didn't bother to go back and read the thread.

The TF defending, and the constant change in suspicion without ever going back to those suspicions. Makes me feel like you're just throwing shit against the wall to see what sticks with the town.

I'm not the kind of player who pegs 5 players as scum and proceeds to lynch them. My reads have been pretty weak, the strongest being Maxous for his attitude at lynch-time D1.
The only one I've consistently found scummy is you (yep, CSL is out) so maybe I should take that as a hint:
VOTE: chkflip

[edmund.angles]

Aaaand reaction fish successful. I love that you think I'm stupid, though. Just thought I'd latch on to the dumbest thing mastin said (that you had no retort for, btw) to see if you'd attack me, and not him, for the very same thing. Your weakest vote has actually been the Bowser one.

Nice 'trap', convenient when you do something stupid that you can claim trap.
mastin claims it is 'not pro-town', you were the one who called it 'horribad' and talked about zMuff's town play as an argument.

Weak reads isn't an excuse for your play. Read the thread, strengthen your reads, and proceed to push to lynch.

That is exactly what I've been doing.

chkflip is worse than mastin.
mastin made a case.
chkflip just said: 'Yeah, mastin's made all my points' and now admits he found some of mastin's points 'dumb' but he didn't bother to tell us which ones he liked when he voted.

DX is also terrible.

@Neruz: Kinda creepy

Don't turn around, making eye contact will just make it angrier.

[edmund.angles]

Your weakest vote has actually been the Bowser one.

Bowser has proven himself scummy by first saying that he doesn't have a good feeling about mastin's reads; in the same post, however, he leaves himself an opening by way of saying that he too has a gut town read on half of mastin's list (which of course he doesn't specify).

In the following post, from what looks like mastin's reads and those alone, he votes Tomie with a simple post of "Then [votecode]Tomie[/votecode]" and that's that.

This, mind you, is only two hours after he previous wishy-washy feelings toward the lists to begin with.

Now sure, we could all see that as a pressure vote to see what Tomie does, but to me it reads more like Bowser trying to buddy up and keep mastin's town-read on that slot by way of going for mastin's biggest scum read.

He fluffs through two more posts; in the first by quoting edmund's vote against him alongside a previous vote count and gives a single line of how edmund miraculously had just "proven himself as scum."

Then, in the very next post, he fluffs with his opinion on how a purely meta case is bad voting and how it's dead.

There's more on Bowser but the stuff above happened before my vote.

[edmund.angles]

EBWOP: I voted Bowser twice and assumed chkflip meant the second vote, maybe he didn't.

Bowser has proven himself scummy by first saying that he doesn't have a good feeling about mastin's reads; in the same post, however, he leaves himself an opening by way of saying that he too has a gut town read on half of mastin's list (which of course he doesn't specify).

In the following post, from what looks like mastin's reads and those alone, he votes Tomie with a simple post of "Then [votecode]Tomie[/votecode]" and that's that.

This part happened before the first vote.

[edmund.angles]

Just thought I'd latch on to the dumbest thing mastin said

Referring to this....

-Muffin vote. (Not pro-town.)

I'm a fan of the "second vote of an RVS wagon" scumtell and believe there to be at least one scum between edmund and Tomie because of it.

[edmund.angles]

chkflip's attitude at the end of D1

UNVOTE: Toon Fighter
VOTE: hiplop

The last six pages alone have painted him scum and totally removed my nullishscum read to a pure unadulterated scum read.

Hiplop is L-1

Amazing fake-hammer, sorg.

...except it doesn't look fake; on the contrary, it looks like opportunistic scum coming in for the hammer with little to no basis. My reaction fish L-1 vote got what I wanted, an amazing town-motivated reaction from nullishscum hiplop.

UNVOTE: hiplop
VOTE: sorgster

I think Toon or sorgster are great picks for today's lynch, followed by Bowser for a close third.

He moves off TF as the wagon starts to grow and as crunch time approaches he hides in the corner with his sorgster wagon.

He even says TF is a great lynch target, but doesn't move back even when hiplop and TF are the only viable lynches. He has plenty of opportunity to do so.

[edmund.angles]

Why would I vote for veoz because he is voting hiraki? Hiraki is currently voting for me.

@sorgster:
1. Hiraki is dead, he's not voting anyone.
2. You don't quite seem to get that townies can win even if they are dead(scum too, but they are fewer so their lives are more important). Arguing that you don't want to vote a player because they are attacking your attacker means you are not living up to the town win-con.
If this is because you are a newbie, then please worry about catching scum in stead of saving your own hide.
If it is because you are scum, then please continue.

[edmund.angles]

MOD: Prod mastin and CSL (GI is close, too)

[edmund.angles]

@GI and mastin: We have the privilege of playing one of the greatest games in human history and you guys whine about boredom.
Think of the poor children in Africa who have never heard of Mafia.

What do you guys think of chkflip?

[edmund.angles]

Unofficial people you're willing to lynch count.

edmund.angles ( 5 ) - vezokpiraka, CSL, mastin2, chkflip, David Xanatos
David Xanatos ( 3 ) - mastin2, edmund.angles, Zdenek
sorgster ( 3 ) - GreyICE, hezlucky, chkflip
zMuffinMan ( 2 ) - GreyICE, Zdenek
chkflip ( 2 ) - edmund.angles, Zdenek
Zdenek ( 2 ) - warriormode, mastin2
vezokpiraka ( 1 ) - sorgster
Amrun ( 1 ) - zMuffinMan
mastin2 ( 1 )- edmund.angles

[edmund.angles]

@sorgster: You took a dislike to chkflip D1, what do you think about him now?

[edmund.angles]

I prefer a chkflip lynch, but I'll still lynch David too (and mastin).

@sorgster and mastin:
Why is the second vote on a scum wagon unlikely to be bussing?

[edmund.angles]

@zMuffinMan: Could you give an updated summary of your reads, please? Is Pappum's/Amrun still your preferred lynch?

[edmund.angles]

@zMuffinMan: Have you played with malpscp as town? If so, what's different?
For reference

btw:

MOD: I think malpscp is pretty ripe for replacement

[edmund.angles]

I've reviewed zMuffin on pappum:

fake caplock rage at hiplop

Yeah it seemed a little fake.

, timing of his hiplop vote and the timing of the TF wagon sprouting,

Don't see the problem about the timing. Pappums voted hiplop before TF seemed in real danger of getting lynched.

the fact he was unwilling to consider moving his vote, despite saying he'd be perfectly fine with either hiplop or TF being lynched today,

He was voting hiplop, the largest of the wagons he liked, why should town-pappums change his vote to TF?

the fact that he tried to get away with calling hiplop town for meta reasons early in the game then flip-flopped on this, etc etc).

PR could see hiplop's later actions as more important than his early game read. The meta-read seems a little contrived, though.

PR was somewhat scummy, but there are better targets.

@David: Sorry to hear about your trouble. Don't stress about the game, play it for fun, it's just a game.

[edmund.angles]

@zMuffinMan: Don't be a martyr, you've made yourself clear, you don't like either main wagons. Could you now just chose the one you dislike the least and not pull a mastin.

warriormode and GI too.

@GI: Please steal someone's vote tonight to prove it's not one-shot.

I'd rather see chkflip flip but well, David will do:
UNVOTE: VOTE: David

[edmund.angles]

Guess I'm wrong yet again of what's possible.

I re-read DX, and I think I have had it on backwards.
I disliked his logic when switching from hiplop to TF. Saying hiplop was town for claiming VT.
But I'm retarded. He backed off a town lynch and onto a scum lynch for a meh basically gut reason.
That is more town cred than a good reason.
His vote kinda shifted the tide and made TF seem possible.

I'll go with this, it feels better:
UNVOTE: VOTE: malpscp

[edmund.angles]

VOTE: Mastin

[edmund.angles]

I WANT THIS VOTE EXPLAINED, EDMUND

Edmund - do you think actually think Mastin is scum? Y/N

Null-read, leaning scum. His attitude towards No Lynch at deadline was scumvenient.

I was specifically refering to this post:

And, yes. This is a "screw you" to the town about both primary wagons. Nothing sends a stronger message than refusing to lynch certain players when deadline is eminent. It's helped me stop a mislynch Day One (Mirror Mafia--I had the chance to hammer, but refused to do so), it's helped me secure a scum lynch on Day Two (Mini 1180, where I refused to hammer Captain [town] and said "Ald or Nobody". We lynched Ald. He flipped the exact role I said he was, Mafia Roleblocker. And I did the same thing day one, with TWIE and WormyKrew [scum]. We lynched WormyKrew then. It was a perfect town victory, by the way).

Right, Wrong, whatever. I aint lynching Toon or Hiplop. ESPECIALLY not Hiplop.

This is a "I'm gonna be anti-town, but don't be mad because I do stuff like this as town"-post.
And he ESPECIALLY don't want to lynch hiplop, the townie. Scumvenient.

D2 he went from me being conf-scum to being conf-town because my vote was stolen. That complete reversal seemed disgenuine to me.
But if he absolutely couldn't see my vote being stolen with me being scum, fair enough. That isen't the case, though.

Any town day power (with the possible exception of dayvig--depends on who they target ) is claimed immediately.

If someone fails to claim the power, it's therefore a scum power.

Yet in stead of seeing GI's vote-stealer claim as scum read, he sees it as a town read.
This just doesn't add up.

VOTE: mastin2

mastin is scummy:
mastin: EA is conf-scum.
EA: I had my vote stolen.
GI: EA is probably not scum.
HL: I'm gonna sheep anything GI does
mastin: No, no, no, indeed EA is not scum, he is completely confirmed town.

[edmund.angles]

@Amrun: Take a good hard think on DX's shift from hiplop to TF.
Think about timing. The hiplop lynch was within reach, the TF wagon still kinda weak.

On mastin:

This game just became broken.

Yeah. This game's won, by the awesome POWER OF P_O_E!!!

Dangeling the carrot of an easy win in front of our noses.

[edmund.angles]

Crap:
1. having lylo pushed back a day is no excuse for not trying lynch scum today.
2. GI could basically be offed at any moment.
VOTE: mastin

Amrun's fencesitting on mastin is also bad.

[edmund.angles]

VOTE: mastin
I think he's mafia, not SK.

[edmund.angles]

Oh btw. I think there is a stupid SK left.

Kill him too please. He killed too many scum.

It might mastin because we blocked him night 3.

So you think this was a gambit?

Also, are you implying that you don't think there was an SK?

Yes to the first question, no to the second.

GI is right, we need the massclaim.

[edmund.angles]

VT
chk next.

[edmund.angles]

I have to think more.
UNVOTE: mastin

@GI: Why didn't you steal a vote last night?

[edmund.angles]

Congrats chk, that was a nice fakeclaim. I was considering you as a lynch mainly because my scum-read on mastin was slipping not due to your claim.

@zMuffin: You are awesome.

@mastin: You would be a lot better player if you added a little humility to your play.

@GI: Why didn't you steal votes?

@Neruz: Thanks for having us, that must have been a tough gig finding all those replacements.