Mini 1195: The Beehive Mystery (GAME OVER)

[Ivan the Pleasant]

@ Subgenius -

Beck is a bit thicker than most.

@ Beck -

You didn't answer my question:

Do you know the significance of tongue in cheek?

Please answer this time.

[Beck]

and what if I don't

[Ivan the Pleasant]

Then I would ask you to please click on the link. It's blue, you can't miss it.

[Beck]

I'm color blind, I can't see blue.

[Ivan the Pleasant]

Get back to your reread.

[Beck]

Are you still pretending you are 2 people?

[ICEninja]

So when I'm hammering somebody I think is town no explanation is required? I am confused.

When you're hammering town while having scum suspects you've said literally

zero

about, it doesn't matter if you give an explanation or not, it's scummy as hell.

Ice is scum though.
People he's wanted to lynch (me, Acro, Yank) all town.

I wanted pressure on Yank. I found very logical reasons to not lynch him. I don't know you're town, so you can't throw that at me. Sure I mislynched Acro, and was one of the people leading the wagon, but can you honestly say everyone on that wagon was scum? Have you never mislynched town before on day 1? I was wrong, and I admit it. It happens.

His reaction to Yank's masonclaim was "OMG ABANDON SHIP" with minimal trepidation despite weirdness of triplemasons 'cause he knew Yank was telling the truth.

If by that you mean:

His reaction to Yank's masonclaim was

"OMG ABANDON SHIP"

"Here are some extremely logical and well thought out reasons to not lynch Yank today"

with minimal trepidation

because of how sound the logic was

despite weirdness of triplemasons

'cause he knew Yank was telling the truth.

'cause he knew Yank was either telling the truth or was scum that was caught anyway

Then you're dead on.

That being said, you're contributing a lot of content now and actually explaining your reads, which decreases my suspicion of you somewhat. You also put forth a fairly good reason to vote Tommy.

Why does Acro's flip change SK's allignment?

SK was defending acro, acro clearly was just naive.

There was no town motivation to defend somebody you don't know their allignment.

SK did this.

Took the words right off my keyboard. That being said, I STILL think SK's backtracking off of Yank's wagon at the time he did it was a towntell, so I'm a bit torn about him. I'm inclined to give the replacement some time to contribute before I solidify my read of this player slot.

I don't like how Tommy no longer thinks the SK slot is scum based on Acro's flip. I also dislike how he's yet to place a vote. This read went from leaning town to leaning scum.

I don't like how Ivan has been posting lately, and it is detracting from the game. Unfortunately, that's an idiot read, not a scum read, so I can't exactly vote him for it.

I have a gut scum read on TS, but I won't place a vote on him unless I can actually make a case out of it. I'll need to try and qualify my gut read.

[Beck]

Ok read a few people

Sub, can't put my finger on it yet, but I'm leaning scum on you now. The way you tried to change your vote to grey like it tortured you or something doesn't sit right

Odd note, The Kool is new to this site but has a hydra already? Also reading his first game, I just feel like he is an alt, not that it matters.

What matters is his overreaction vote on spoon, and his useless play all game. I feel his vote for Yank was opportunistic and he tries to play it off after like his vote was serious.

His failure to provide any real reads while at one point calling somebody a lurker, and accusing me of" sitting back enjoying the show" is extremely laughable.

vote: DJ Koolzy

[Beck]

And as dumb as this sounds, I doubt grey is scum. Scum hammering like that would definitly draw extra attention on himself.

[Da Koolzzy]

Context, context! Beck, my boy, even I in my short time here have learned the importance of quoting posts.

The hydra has been explained as an attempt to play without enslaving myself to the site. Since my other head has not yet posted, and has hardly contributed to our QT, I'm a little ticked off.

My lack of posting is an issue I wish to fix. This day, either my other head or I will be doing a full and thorough reread of day 1, with comprehensive reads intermittently throughout. I too feel as if I have been useless, and my main attempt at usefulness has been attacked as scummy, as well as my policy vote. I am unsure of policy lynches, but I do believe in attacking someone for hindering the town.

And I apologize for completely missing the mark on you. I have no idea if I just missed seeing all your posts, or if I meant to say somebody else.

[Ivan the Pleasant]

@ Beck -

Yes. We are just pretending. Ivan the Pleasant is actually just one person who loves roleplaying, and wacking off to schizophrenic lizard porn.

- Ivan the Fool

@ ICEninja -

You think our play is detracting? I'm sorry to hear that. We mostly just wanted to give you a target you can foreshadow your suspicions on for later. But by all means, continue pretending that you have nuanced, evenhanded opinions of everyone, its bound to buy you town cred in the long run.

[Beck]

1. pretty quick response to my vote, a whole 11 minutes
2. I don't need to quote what you said, your ISO is short enough you can easily find where you said those things, but if you must have quotes

1. over-reaction

Okay, guys. You NEVER EVER answer questions directed at someone else, or try to explain their reasoning! The questions were directed at them for a reason, and if you give the 'right' answer, scum could just say 'what he said' instead of the flawed response they would have given, outing them as scum. Hence, you NEVER EVER ANSWER QUESTIONS DIRECTED AT SOMEONE ELSE!

VOTE: Captain Spoon

And yeah, this is a hydra, led by The Kool.

2. the comment about me

Beck seems to me to be trying to sit back and enjoy the show. He has contributed some though, and his lighthearted tone seems way to risky for a mafia or third party. I think he's probably town that needs to buckle down.

calling somebody a lurker, while accurate, this was in your 2nd post of the game

Greymarble has one silly post. Lurker! Possibly trying to avoid attention, not hard in a game of 13. Likely 3rd party.

but actually this entire post

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p3163673

is full of fence sitting, afraid to really call anyone out as scum, and doesn't even use scum that much, just refers to people as possible 3rd party. Why speculate on 3rd party at all on day 1 anyway.

[subgenius]

Sub, can't put my finger on it yet, but I'm leaning scum on you now. The way you tried to change your vote to grey like it tortured you or something doesn't sit right

That's a fair observation. The reason I was so hesitant to change my vote was because I strongly wanted to lynch Acro, but it seemed like the wagon and the day had stalled (it turns out this was because the hammer had already been dropped). I wasn't sure what else I could do to move the acro wagon forward. I really thought that Grey deserved some pressure, and I didn't want to sit around hoping for a last Acro vote to trickle in before the deadline without doing anything else. So, I figured I'd start digging in a new direction. I was quite concerned that the Acro wagon would never regain momentum, which is why I seemed so reluctant to change my vote.

[ICEninja]

You think our play is detracting? I'm sorry to hear that. We mostly just wanted to give you a target you can foreshadow your suspicions on for later. But by all means, continue pretending that you have nuanced, evenhanded opinions of everyone, its bound to buy you town cred in the long run.

Honestly, this is exactly the kind of posting that pisses me off. If you keep doing frustrating things that aren't related to finding scum, yeah, that's eventually going to turn in to a scum suspicion because doing it consistently would be playing to a scum win condition, as opposed to the town win condition of finding scum. Don't give yourself an out to say "look I knew this guy was going to eventually call me scummy! See???" when you're doing stupid shit like this.

I do have, to an extent, nuanced and evenhanded opinions of everyone. I'm not going to let your sarcasm take that from me. Does that mean I know everyone's alignment? Of course not, but I sure as hell have my opinions and I'd say they're pretty good.

Oh and pro tip, town doesn't need to gain town cred, town needs to find scum. Notice that in my posts (this one exempt, as it is responding to your mudslinging) I'm trying to find scum. I haven't seen much of that from you. So how about you do actually go through some careful reading and find something useful to dig on, as opposed to throwing out pointless and distracting comments that do nothing to find scum and everything to irritate people and make this game less enjoyable.

[Captain Spoon]

Okay, this is the start of some PofE
Before I get to my scumreads I need to rule out my townreads. Firstly Beck, who I'm starting with, is a strong town read and I'm going to explain why this is to add credibility to my scumreads when I get to them

Beck

First, I must be scum lol

At first I didn't realise it, but this is not the attention scum want at the start of a game and is too bold a move for them to do. Why risk everything if a post like this could turn things so bas so early. Very town

MOD- I personally think all hydras need to out who their heads are, it's bad enough to be playing with ore than one, keeping it a secret just makes it worse

I've seen this before. Hydra paranoia/Frustration is a big towntell because Townies are on their own. Townies feel weak because they are alone. Scum are together, they do not feel weak and have no reason to fear a player that might have a possible advantage in 2 heads. Or as I stated it in our QT
"Scum don't feel the same sense of fear that they get from a hydra, but a townie does as a townie is super suspicious as he's all alone"

Reading through iso of SK a few things stand out

1. I don't like his first post where he asks for a vc for fear of doing something stupid, not sure why but it rubs me the wrong way
2. Later he says I'm a good lynch(more on this later) adds in Ivan to that list too
3. Declares somebody a VI and defends acro, I don't understand how anyone can defend a person if you don't know their allignment. If Arco is scum and SK is town, SK Has been defending scum. That is why defending people makes no sense. If arco truly is a VI, they typically ruin games so again, why defend him.
4. Pushing on spoon but I really don't see why, I can't find a good case that SK has made
5. He blindly follows my info, without even checking if I was right or not, yet earlier he says I'm a good lynch. Why would he blindly follow me?

General question to be answered by anyone

Why would somebody who is town, blindly follow anyone?

Isn't that sheeping?

Sheeping is a scum tell still right?

I swear to me, Ivan, SK, and Yank look like scum.

This post is real town to me. Explains exactly what he's thinking and unprovoked re-reads are very often town. Scum don't need to re-read; they know all the info

The final point I want to make on Beck is his consistency

I agree about greymarble, more postage
still not impressed with Koolzy either
Tommy has improved
sub has moved down a few notches from my original town read
so has acro
I still despise ivan, but i'm the only one who aparantly has a problem with archaebob contradicting himself
the rest are all null reads
yank I still think is scum
and I am pretty sure I know who the 3 masons are IF, there are 3 masons, which sadly I actually think might be true but it pisses me off cause yank is just so damn scummy.
SK is still scum imo

still waiting to hear more from acro and want him to answer my earier question to him, that bussing comment is a slip the more and more I have time to think of it but not voting til I hear more from him.

unvote

need to re-evaluate ivan, I really need to re-read him in general.

their confusion added to my confusion.

SK is still a good lead, but there are others I am suspecting.

Again I need to re-read each person.

I can tell you that I still don't trust captain spoon and their buddying, but I am always leery of people telling me they think I am town, where I normally play i'm always referred to as the most scummiest player lol.

Ok read a few people

Sub, can't put my finger on it yet, but I'm leaning scum on you now. The way you tried to change your vote to grey like it tortured you or something doesn't sit right

Odd note, The Kool is new to this site but has a hydra already? Also reading his first game, I just feel like he is an alt, not that it matters.

What matters is his overreaction vote on spoon, and his useless play all game. I feel his vote for Yank was opportunistic and he tries to play it off after like his vote was serious.

His failure to provide any real reads while at one point calling somebody a lurker, and accusing me of" sitting back enjoying the show" is extremely laughable.

vote: DJ Koolzy

These 3 quotes and reads are all very consistent and that would be unusual for scum since they tend to ride the biggest wagons. That and that many reads are the same with us, e.g. Kool, makes us think Beck is town for our PofE

(note: This beck Iso was one of the shorter ones because I don't think that much persuasion is needed to show beck as town)

[Captain Spoon]

Ivan

I think CC and I have been quite nice to Ivan up to this point. up to now we thought that he might not be scum since we expected scum to ride our wagon more like SK did. I van never voted for us but looking at some of the votes he has cast, all seem to be on strong town, or confirmed town reads:

This account is a hydra.

vote beck

His joke sounds nervous. This is a serious vote.

strong town

unvote

vote yank

NOW this vote is serious

conf. town

Bah. Well, there goes that idea.

unvote vote Acronach

Your posts so far have been devoid of content.

conf. town

This is where you vote Sleepykrew, and it implies the same thing. Your argument requires achro to be scum therefore you should be voting achro if you actually believe what you're saying. You aren't, therefore you don't.

unvote, vote: Subgenius.

suspected town (see later PofE case)

I, for one, disagree vehemently with the subgenius vote that was made by the other head. If it were up to me, we would have been on Yank this entire time, which is what I thought we were doing...

vote Yank

Fuck it.

vote: Yank

even more conf. town (and head disparities)

vote tommy

Cause we agree with Greymarble, and are glad to see him posting some content. Hope he keeps it up.

@ Tommy -

We were pretty much just slinging mud.

This is a terribe post all around. Opportunistic sheeping and mudslinging....
The vote looks rather scummy. It does not match with

Personally I am not as much a fan of a Tommy wagon, so for the moment we are abandoning that.

either (although to be fair they did list tommy as a scumread before now)

Finally, we also don't like how these 2 quotes look inconsistent

unvote vote Greymarble

You need to post a lot more than you have. You are one of the most experienced and skilled players here, and I am extremely disconcerted by your lack of content so far. At this point, your play does not in the least bit line up with your town meta.

vote tommy

Cause we agree with Greymarble, and are glad to see him posting some content. Hope he keeps it up.

we don't like how at first meta gave a scumread on grey to Ivan, but then Ivan blindly sheeps Grey when he starts posting a little more
The conclusion here is that if one of Grey or Ivan flips scum the other is a likely scumbuddy since the Grey vote looked like a safe bus since grey was gone

In general we think Ivan might be town, but he might also be scum, even if some of his play is odd. He trusts Grey an unusual amount and we didn't see him vote SK either which is worrying, and we find it concerning that he only mentions Sleepykrew in one post.
Thus we do not object to an Ivan lynch as we feel it would be a great indicator of the alignments of Krew/Jily, Tommy and Greyice

[Captain Spoon]

K, I'm tired now

more Iso later today maybe. Things should all become clearer when all the isos are done because then the PofE should point clearly to scum

[Beck]

yeah, as much as it pains me to admit it, Ivan is becoming more and more of a town read, I really just want to bang my head against a brick wall than admit it is true.

I think Koolzy needs more votes just to get him to participate, he has 2 and right after I voted he comes in trying to explain himself.

I think we need to hear from lily because her slot is the biggest suspect for me right now.

[Tommy]

Why does Acro's flip change SK's allignment?

My case against the pair was based partly on the fact that they were defending each other, but mainly on Acronach's scummy use of the word 'bus' when considering a possible attack on him by SleepyKrew (there was also some Acronach-only evidence that relied on his question evasion). So most of it disappeared when Acronach's alignment was revealed. There's still the fact that SleepyKrew was defending Acronach, and now I read back I see that I had it the wrong way around in my head - I thought that it was mainly Acronach defending SleepyKrew. But I don't really see how it would be in scum's interest to buddy up with a scummy-looking town player. I'm not saying it's a town tell (because that would be WIFOM), but I can't see much of a case against him either.

We were pretty much just slinging mud.

Don't like this at all, Ivan. Let's return to this quote here:

You're going down tomorrow though, don't worry. You are so scum it's not even funny.

Do you still think rblinker is scum? Did you ever think it? Please remove your tongue from your cheek before answering.

Tommy, why did you question ivan than provide him an answer to the question?

'Are you slinging mud?' isn't a lifeline, it's an accusation. He decided to jokily grab it as if it was a lifeline, which I find suspicious.

Greymarble, please answer the questions I asked you in post 539. Also, what's all this logic problem talk:

Sub, Ivan, or Sleepy are all in the running for third scumbuddy. Those 3 Tommy and Ice contain AT LEAST 2 scum.
I'm not wrong about more than 1 of Koolzy, CA, Blinker, Beck & Spoon towns.

'AT LEAST 2', 'not wrong about more than 1' - how do you know?

And as dumb as this sounds, I doubt grey is scum. Scum hammering like that would definitly draw extra attention on himself.

This is WIFOM. What if that's what he wants you to think?

I find Captain Spoon's defense of Beck persuasive.

[Beck]

lol Tommy, so you don't suspect the SK slot at all now?

[Tommy]

I now find SleepyKrew less suspicious than, say, ConfidAnon or Da Koolzzy. And certainly less than Greymarble and Ivan.

[Beck]

Tommy my read on grey is the same as your read on SK, except you are afraid to come out and call it a town thing to do because it's wifom. I'm not afraid to admit I sometimes use wifom when making my reads, this entire game is based on wifom.

I sit and ask myself, what is the town and scum motivation for each move.

I don't get why SK defended acro, as town it makes no sense to defend somebody you don't know the alliance to. Plus VI, typically implies town yet SK said he wasn't sure if he was town, so why defend him?

That's why I called out Ivan earlier D1, why make good points on somebody and than drop the wagon and attack a lurker. As town, I see no benefit from it.

That's why I'm on Kool now, he has yet to make a scum read on anyone and he isn't even attempting to scum hunt.

[Beck]

I now find SleepyKrew less suspicious than, say, ConfidAnon or Da Koolzzy. And certainly less than Greymarble and Ivan.

Explain why each is suspicious to you

[Ivan the Pleasant]

@ Spoon -

You aren't seriously throwing dirt on us for suspecting Yank, are you? Why does it matter that they are confirmed town

now

?

fos Captain Spoon

[rblinker123]

So, Acro turned out town. I previously had suspicions of sleepy, however i had him pegged with Acro as scum buddies, so for now I'll hold off a little bit since Acro turned out to be town. I'll still keep an eye out but wait to see how his replacement plays before putting down a vote.

Atm, Im suspicious of Grey. The way he put the hammer down on Acro was so scummy. Simple as, in the situation the game was in, if you believe someone is town then you dont lynch them. The reason was for him saving himself, he wasnt in that much danger anyway. It does not help the town one bit by lynching someone who you think is town, you just dont do it, it only helps scum, a townie wouldnt do it.

Ivan: About the mud slinginig to confuse the town. I am getting this right or not. If you were town why would to confuse town?