Newbie 1120 - The Scum in Sherlock (Over!)

[hiplop]

Also, why was foilist killed? Wouldnt hiplop have been a better choice for scum to go for, as a known PR? Why was the person voting hiplop killed?

Think for a moment, Thor. Then look at her reasoning. Obvious set-up is obvious, the last person voting me - he arrived at that conclusion pretty fucking fast, no way did he remember that without discussing it. We're dealing with a newbscum that thought it would be enough to get a mislynch on me.

[Hellhound1]

There are 4 roles that can be in the game (plus the vanilla townies). The town gets 2 of them out of the 4.

Let me just refer you to the first post.

Five or six people will receive this PM:

You are a vanilla townie.

Now, theres 9 players.
2 of which are scum, correct?
Leaves 7 players.

Just read that first post again yeah?

Five or six people will receive this PM:

You are a vanilla townie.

Notice: five or

six

If there are 6 vanilla townies, that leaves.. oooh...




1.

1 power role. Simple maths.
Yes, there could be 2.
But thats a 50/50 chance. Im willing to say theres 1 right now, because nobody else has claimed, or even should claim without any interesting info.

[hiplop]

If its a 50/50 chance, how are you willing to say there are more VT's?

Btw if you think there are 6, then i'm confirmed, you realize that right?

[Hellhound1]

If i were stupid, i could ask the other PR to come out; that would confirm me. I am still a member of town, and i'm finding scum in you. Your logic is still nothing. Yeah, i could be lying. I could also be telling the truth, its null because of that (aka not worth charging at). Or you know, if you read my posts you would realize i think its a set up due to the big wagon on me yesterday.
And how you sidestep my logic just repeating what you said previously..

Wouldnt confirm you, read above post.
Good for you, your reading skills are a bit off though. I say why has this happened, and you go around calling me scum.. How about you use some logic yourself, before i side step it?
Yes, because you were scummy until you claimed a PR. Claiming a PR doesnt mean you arent scum, just means you go lucky. You also protected thor, well yes well done, he's still alive. Anyone could say that, because he's still alive..
Doesnt mean you did anything.

If its a 50/50 chance, how are you willing to say there are more VT's?

Wut? If theres 1 power role theres 6 VTs, if theres 2 theres 5VTs.. Simple enough?

Btw if you think there are 6, then i'm confirmed, you realize that right?

No, it just means the real one hasnt claimed yet.
You are not confirmed, stop acting like you are. You havent done anything to confirm that you are the jailkeeper.

[hiplop]

I DONT CARE ABOUT THE GAME MECHANICS. seriously fuck off with that. Reply to my arguments.

[Hellhound1]

I DONT CARE ABOUT THE GAME MECHANICS. seriously fuck off with that. Reply to my arguments.

I have, saying what you're saying isnt true, because of the game mechanics.
Seriously, if you're going to lie, make sure it works.
You can't make wild accusations at me, not have ANY evidence to back them up, and swear at me because you fail. Thats.. scummy

[hitogoroshi]

Vote Count #21

Shahrizai:

Thor665 (L-3)

Awesoma:

Toreqez (L-3)

hellhound1:

hiplop (L-3)

Not Voting:

Shahrizai, Scumhunter, Awesoma, hellhound1

Day Two Deadline

(expired on 2011-07-26 19:00:00)

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

[Scumhunter]

hiplop, it is odd that mafia didn't shoot you if you are town as JK is very powerful particularly later in the game. however i am skeptical of hellhound but not really because he said that as much as it was accusatory. it is worth nothing that you weren't nk'd hiplop and very well could mean scum were trying to get a ML on you. for what its worth I believe your claim for now. hiplop...

[Hellhound1]

hiplop, it is odd that mafia didn't shoot you if you are town as JK is very powerful particularly later in the game.

Exactly.
Why would they go to bother of MLing you when they couldve just killed you at night? I dont get it..

[Thor665]

Whatever, we're not lynching him today though so...who would you like us to lynch?
@Scumhunter - you're doing it all wrong again.

[hiplop]

hiplop, it is odd that mafia didn't shoot you if you are town as JK is very powerful particularly later in the game.

Exactly.
Why would they go to bother of MLing you when they couldve just killed you at night? I dont get it..

Thats an idiotic point. Killing someone who everyone think is town + causing suspicion on a PR is a much better set up for scum than just getting rid of a PR.

[Shahrizai]

--RE: Thor's question
The DK wagon was meh, but logical after the hiplop wagon fell apart because it was so late in the day, but Scumhunter hammered at the wrong time. There wasn't any need to hammer when he did; we had several more days to go, and I was still trying to finish reading and processing everything. I had more of a town read on Cloud but DK wasn't really contributing much. If anything, it was a useful wagon for information.

By switching over late in the day and after a claim like you did, you sort of locked it in place and forced decisions as well. If scum was already on the wagon, they couldn't very well hop off, and then they would have to be extra careful about hopping on as well.

I think there was at least one scum already on the DK wagon when you voted for him.

--Further thoughts
1) Hellhound's rather triumphant WIFOMing today is scummy. NK analysis is one thing, but the super-confident crowing about how Foilist's death MUST mean Hiplop killed him is pushing it. Foilist was also crawling all over Thor yesterday, but Hellhound has completely ignored that in his zeal to lynch hiplop.

In response to the "I don't get it comment..." Um, for the same reason they would push any ML?

If hiplop is really scum, then his claim could have been a ploy to draw a CC; Foilist's immediate incredulity to Hiplop's claim would have marked him as possible JK based on that alone; if hiplop isn't scum, then Real scum wouldn't need to necessarily kill him right away because they have the ID of one PR, so why not try to flush out another? Again, Foilist's reaction could have marked him as a potential PR. They can also use hiplop's claim to flush out another PR; for example, hoping a cop would have investigated him last night and put forth an innocent verdict. They can always kill him later if their gambit doesn't work.

Hellhound's focus ONLY on the fact that Foilist didn't believe Hiplop's claim and was voting for him instead of questioning WHY Foilist didn't believe him makes me think he's scum trying to set up a Hiplop ML based on the premise that Hiplop wanted to kill Foilist because he saw him as a threat, when there could be many other explanations for the NK. Everything about this push is too easy and forced. (I'm also not sure if I'm clearly explaining what I mean. =\ I'll try to clarify if needed.)

Also, why is Hellhound town, Thor? You gave a pretty convincing explanation about Awesomea, but I'm not seeing it with Thor. Today's WIFOM-vomit and yesterday's play altogether doesn't strike me as particularly town.

2) Torquez strikes me as scummy for several reasons: for one thing, he is very over-enthusiastic, something that begins in his first post. For another, his introductory post leaves a lot of room to move in any direction (so basically a lot of fence-sitting). Subsequent postings feel more detached as well, like he's just going through the motions of scumhunting rather than actually doing so.

Vote: Hellhound

I will try to post more later, but I have some maid-of-honor shopping duties to attend to this weekend. I should have time, and now that I'm caught up, staying involved won't be a problem. Catching up was a bit of a bitch...er, smurfette? (I thought the night deadline was the 6th b/c I misread the countdown in the post, so I didn't even check the thread until last night. Sorry! :S

[hiplop]

Whatever, we're not lynching him today though so...who would you like us to lynch?
@Scumhunter - you're doing it all wrong again.

thor, can you look back on my points from this day? and how hellhound ignored a bunch? You haven't said anything and i'm getting slightly aggravated.

[Thor665]

What points? You want me to sound off on the PR debate - because that's all you've done today and it's not really helpful or needed to my mind, and I don't really want to wade in there and help feed the debate. Is there something else I'm missing?

[Thor665]

Also, why is Hellhound town, Thor? You gave a pretty convincing explanation about Awesomea, but I'm not seeing it with Thor. Today's WIFOM-vomit and yesterday's play altogether doesn't strike me as particularly town.

I don't recall my reasons off hand - I'll look back and get an answer to this for you later today or tomorrow.

[hiplop]

my points on hellhound, not his fluff about mechanics

[Hellhound1]

--Further thoughts
1) Hellhound's rather triumphant WIFOMing today is scummy. NK analysis is one thing, but the super-confident crowing about how Foilist's death MUST mean Hiplop killed him is pushing it. Foilist was also crawling all over Thor yesterday, but Hellhound has completely ignored that in his zeal to lynch hiplop.

Firstly, i never said MUST. I dont feel i pressured hiplop at all D1 and when he was under pressure he claimed a PR. What im trying to do, and what nobody else seems to care about, is find out whether he's lying or not.
Why are YOU taking what he says as truth?

In response to the "I don't get it comment..." Um, for the same reason they would push any ML?

Why would they go to effort? Why not just lynch the JK then? Why kill a VT and set up a ML on a person the town probably wouldnt lynch now he's claimed a PR (whether or not he's telling the truth)
That logically doesnt make sense to me.

If hiplop is really scum, then his claim could have been a ploy to draw a CC; Foilist's immediate incredulity to Hiplop's claim would have marked him as possible JK based on that alone; if hiplop isn't scum, then Real scum wouldn't need to necessarily kill him right away because they have the ID of one PR, so why not try to flush out another?

Because he could do harm to the scum team..? I dont get why they've left someone in if, assuming he IS the JK, he can damage them.

Again, Foilist's reaction could have marked him as a potential PR.

Quote me one please. I dont see how he ever hinted at being a PR..

They can also use hiplop's claim to flush out another PR; for example, hoping a cop would have investigated him last night and put forth an innocent verdict. They can always kill him later if their gambit doesn't work.

I thought generally cops never outed unless they had a guilty and docs never outed?
Besides, if someone claims another PR, the only way to save them from dying that night is to JK them, meaning they lose their powers.. meaning they would vote hiplop anyway..?

Hellhound's focus ONLY on the fact that Foilist didn't believe Hiplop's claim

Let me stop you there. I have nothing to do with what Foilist thought. i havent once mentioned him as someone who's logic i followed. Lets clear that up. This is my line of thinking.

and was voting for him instead of questioning WHY Foilist didn't believe him makes me think he's scum trying to set up a Hiplop ML based on the premise that Hiplop wanted to kill Foilist because he saw him as a threat, when there could be many other explanations for the NK.

Because, i have my own reasons for not believing him. Just because i didnt contradict myself makes me scummy? What?
I said as soon as he claimed i didnt believe him, so did foilist. Please, try to disassociate my & foilist's beliefs.

Everything about this push is too easy and forced. (I'm also not sure if I'm clearly explaining what I mean. =\ I'll try to clarify if needed.)

Please, do.

2) Torquez strikes me as scummy for several reasons: for one thing, he is very over-enthusiastic, something that begins in his first post. For another, his introductory post leaves a lot of room to move in any direction (so basically a lot of fence-sitting). Subsequent postings feel more detached as well, like he's just going through the motions of scumhunting rather than actually doing so.

I know this is more for torquez to answer BUT, at least thats one step further than you've gone so far with your first post.

Let me ask you this.
Why have you jumped to Hiplop's aid so quickly?
Theres no scum hunting involved here, you've just run in defending hiplop, without looking at the possibility HE'S LYING.
If you'd bothered to read my mechanics post, you'd see that theres at least a 50/50 chance he got lucky. If theres just one PR, then theres a 2/3 chance of getting lucky.

my points on hellhound, not his fluff about mechanics

Urm, i was using to mechanics to prove that what you're saying could be bullshit.

[hiplop]

congrats, you barely understand basic mafia mechanics. Now start playing, we understand your horrible logic, but it remains horrible.

[Hellhound1]

congrats, you barely understand basic mafia mechanics. Now start playing, we understand your horrible logic, but it remains horrible.

Right...
You, on the other hand, seem to completely misunderstand them?
You did nothing during the night to prove whether or not you are the jailkeeper.
Saying you're the jailkeeper doesnt make you the jailkeeper. How many more times and in how many different ways can i make that clear?
I could just as easily say im the doctor and last night i protected you. You couldnt prove me wrong, because you're still alive..
How are you not getting this?

[hiplop]

I get it. You're trying to make a case out of nothing. Mafia is about intelligently deciding what is true and false. You're just saying " YOU COULD NOT BE TEH JAIILKEEPREZ SO YOU SCUM"

its not a case, get over it, I'm not dying today, and your shitty case isn't helping

[hiplop]

Meanwhile me and ninjasharizle have pointed out your flaws, we have a case. You do not.

[Hellhound1]

Right..
I call you scum and you cry like a baby about it.
Last time, you had the option to out a role, whether or not its true.
This time, what do you have?
Oh yeah, using someone else's case. Real big.

Mafia is about intelligently deciding what is true and false

Yeah, what did you think i was doing?
Deciding that you were a liar. What happened to the last person who said they didnt believe you? Killed. Now, i say i dont believe you, and you vote me to be lynched?
Your case against me, hiplop, is that you think im trying to ML you, and this is a whole set up? Am i correct?


Also, you (well not you, someone else) pointed out my flaws and now have a case?
Im pointing out your flaws and have a case..

[Hellhound1]

You're just saying " YOU COULD NOT BE TEH JAIILKEEPREZ SO YOU SCUM"

Im saying, actually, that you might not be the jailkeeper, and that claiming a PR doesnt make you a PR. So for all we know, you might be scum..

[hiplop]

i have had enough of this. If you're town, you're not being protown. If you're scum, you're exposing yourself.

If i were you, id get off this topic. You're trying to lynch me for no reason other than i'm a PR. Not town motivated in the slightest.

I dont care aobut the mechanics, i know them. I've been playing for years. Now stop talking about them, they bore me.

[Hellhound1]

Oh poor you.
If i was scum, do you think id do something as outstanding as this? try looking at the inactive awesoma etc.
Actually, im not going to get off this topic. Why do you want me to get off this topic? In case i find enough proof that you're a liar?
It seems awfully suspicious to me that you want me to get off this, rather than you just brush it to one side because you know you're the JK. Although, bit late for that now isnt it.
Maybe you dont care about the mechanics, but so far they've helped me build a case that you could be lying. Therefore i do care about them.
Infact, ive only used a little bit of mechanics, saying that theres a possibility that there is only 1 PR instead of 2. Making a big deal out of nothing much?
Oh, and you havent proven you're a PR. And im not yet trying to lynch you. In case you hadnt realised, i havent voted anyone, yet as soon as i pressure you, you throw your vote at me.