Newbie 1126-Perfect Scum Victory

[hiphop]

Once Again the Votecount

Votecount 1.6

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

LadyDeathRage(2): Elsa von Spielburg, Thomas
F-team tsunamic(1): Ythan
Ythan(1): F-team tsunamic
lilac(1): Thomith
Thomas(1): LadyDeathRage

Not Voting(3): hahonryuu, fatlikepig, lilac

Notes:

There is nothing here

Deadline is the End of July 22nd PST.

[Thomas]

Thomas, if you have in fact already said this was a mistake than I apologize for following up on it. I have not intended this to be something I thought was indicative of your guilt, I am merely attempting to keep the game info straight as i had problems with mistakes on my own part and I didn't want any more of those attributed to me.

You already posted about it somewhere below my post so problem solved. Now that we're on the next page a post about that won't really help.

I think F-Team is town for a variety of reasons, including the manner in which he defends himself, his initial post (which Ythan found so scummy in the first place) and the fact that he's taking Ythan's constant pressure in stride. Yes, he's defensive. But if someone were claiming in no uncertain terms that you're scum when you know that you're not, what would you be, aloof? No, you'd be defensive. You would ALL be defensive under the kind of pressure and scrutiny that Ythan is applying to F-Team. On his initial post (which I found quite humorous actually ^^), he made a quip about the ridiculousness of everyone gathering around to decide who to kill. I saw this as a town-oriented post because if he were Mafia, well, it just wouldn't be as funny. Which was the goal. It was a joke, and we're here to have fun, right? This is a game, yes? Finally, we come to the assertion that F-Team has done nothing to defend himself, to the point of his LIFE being threatened if he didn't. My problem with that line of reasoning is this: HE HAS DEFENDED HIMSELF SEVERAL TIMES IN SEVERAL POSTS TO SEVERAL PEOPLE. They've all sounded relatively sincere (as sincere as the medium allows, anyway), and I have no reason to believe that he's lying about any of it…besides Ythan's absolute assurance that he's found scum in F-Team.

F-team tsunamic has done absolutely nothing to defend himself. All he says is "you must be scum cuz u voted 4 me". He also thinks that by randomly using big words like the kind used in "Terms and Conditions" on websites will make him more powerful than whoever he's accusing. If I'm right I think he's accusing Ythan and I of being mafia because we both target him? What about Thomith, fatlikepig and the other people who are suspicious of him?

This post doesn't set well with me for a couple of reasons.

A) Who the shit cares if you're the second vote on someone right out of the gates? Yeah, if he's got 3 votes on him and you put him one vote away from being lynched, okay…suspect away. That makes perfect sense to me. But really, putting a second vote on someone during RVS is scummy? If we all HAD to put our votes on different people, well, that DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF THE RVS IN THE FIRST PLACE. The idea behind randomly voting someone is to see what that pressure reveals. If we're all expected to all be voting for different people, that completely negates any pressure that the vote would carry.

B) See the

italicized

bit. Please note that he's suggesting that everyone post who they think are the most suspicious 2 people in the game…in a few real-life days. Stay tuned to see if he follows through with this!

C) FoS of F-Team. Hops on a bandwagon with little to no reasoning behind it.

A: Every vote gets somebody closer to a lynch so what if everyone placed a random vote on one person? They're lynched. One vote on somebody is enough for that person to release some information. Two votes is overkill and it's unnecessary to get somebody this close to a lynch so early in the game.

B: I posted mine yesterday and you just so happen to be on the list. You know why I couldn't post one earlier? Because people such as you were not posting. You want to know who hasn't made a top 2 suspicious persons list yet? You.

C: If you're talking about the first bandwagon then you should note that I never did place a vote there. If I did I can guarantee you that F-team tsunamic would have been lynched. It seems rather scummy that I didn't vote eh? As for the FoS I already provided some information

when I made it

. You need to read posts.

I didn't like this post because at no point did F-Team say that the reason he suspected Ythan was because he's more experienced. At no point did he ELLUDE to that notion. Heck, he didn't even hint at it. What he said was he didn't like the WAY he attacked him, the new guy. He DID say that he thought that Ythan, the more experienced guy, was attacking him, the new guy. At no point was that ever given as his REASON for suspecting him.

Actually F-team tsunamic did say that, but indirectly, because he's new and Ythan isn't. Or "attack of the new guy". F-team tsunamic then voted for Ythan so I then said that anybody can be scum and just because Ythan is more experienced does not mean he's scum.

This post left me thinking "Self, why would he be asking for permission to post who he thinks is suspicious? Especially since he's A) FoS'd F-Team, B) FoS'd Me, and C) FoS'd Elsa?" It seems to me like he's asking whether or not people would find him scummy if he posted a list of suspects right now.

Notice how I said "we" which means I was asking if all people in the game were ready to share. Notice how I didn't ask if I, myself should share with you guys. Your suspicions so far are weak.

Okay, here Thomas explains why, in detail, he voted for F-Team. I'll paraphrase here: "We vote for him because Ythan votes for him. Plus he's annoying. Why don't YOU find him suspicious?" ….does no one find this odd but me? He's literally asking me why I'm not blindly jumping on the bandwagon like everyone else. He then goes on to say that over half the town is scum (halo, Ythan, Thomith and Thomas are the only townies in this setup apparently)…because apparently not posting up to Thomas' exacting standards is a crime PUNISHABLE BY DEATH. Also, for the record, I find lists of probably 'townies' to be anti-town in nature. All they serve to do is give Mafia targets to fire on…we should be focusing on who's scummy/suspicious…not who's NOT suspicious.

Pre-post Edit: Ythan also pointed out that town-lists is a bad idea.

First of all, I don't need you to post these 'paraphrases'. It's misleading because that's not at all my opinion or what I said.

You are trying to make me look more suspicious than I am.

You don't know my opinion and I don't know yours so stop posting bullshit that I didn't even say. I'm ignoring those next few sentences because that's just crap I never said. I never said over half the town is scum. If you don't know what I posted and what I didn't post then don't play this game. I posted the list of people who I think

are

townies. I obviously can't build a profile on people such as you who have barely posted. By the way a list of town would help because then you can focus on people who are not on the list which helps you find the scum.

….so this means that F-Team is logically not able to be scum, yes? Because he asked this question? No? Where EXACTLY do you stand on the F-Team wagon?

It doesn't mean he's scum and it doesn't mean he isn't scum. Anybody can make such a statement.

Actually, since there are two members of a scum-team in this setup and he's voting on one person already, it seems logical to FoS who he suspects of being his scum-buddy. I mean, up to now you've been acting pretty scummy, why not have more than one suspect? I agree that having FEW suspects is more ideal than having a bunch of suspects…but you YOURSELF have FoS'd THREE people at once in this game already. You're starting to contradict yourself here.

You clearly did not understand why I made this post. F-team tsunamic posted the wrong format for an FoS so I wasn't sure if he was voting me or FoSing me. It doesn't matter how many FoS'es I have. I have 10 fingers so I can have 10 FoS'es at a time. Being a townie I should treat all 8 of you as scum so maybe I should FoS everybody? The fact that you believe that people should only be suspicious of 2 people at a time suggests that you are scum because any townie knows that anybody could be scum. Again your suspicions are weak.

By the way... speaking of suspicions I'm sort of concerned that nobody except the weakest player in the game, F-team tsunamic has showed suspicions (even though they weren't good) on Ythan. I'm not saying that he is scum but don't be afraid to show suspicions on him because if he's scum then we're screwed.

Okay, here we go. This post locked in my read on Thomas. He JUST released his FoS on F-Team, literally 2 of his posts before this one. And now he's voting for F-Team. Not only that, but he gave F-Team flak for having a suspect in addition to his vote, and guess what! He's suspicious of ME, in spite of having a vote on F-Team! Amazing! Contradictions abound! He wants me to post. Here we have it. My reasons why I don't find F-Team suspicious AND my list of the two most scummy people in the game, just in time!

I voted after removing the FoS because I realized that there is no such thing as being too stupid to be mafia which was the reason why I removed the FoS. As I stated above I am suspicious of all 8 of you so you are saying I am not entitled to also be suspicious of more than one person. Sure we get one vote but I'm still going to look at everyone else.

Or, in other words… "Oh shit, the bandwagon I was so confident in not even 12 hours ago is losing steam, RAPDILY. Hmmm…Oh look, someone who appears to be inactive! DIE!"

Again, I don't need to hear this crap because the above quote is not my thoughts and is misleading.

Or, in other words "Oh shit, F-Team has my number…better attempt to discredit him with NO logic and NO reasoning other than 'you're making shit up, go read the thread'."

Which is interesting, because of anyone in the thread besides maybe Ythan, F-Team has clearly read the thread the most…as he's repeatedly defended himself against this weak-ass bandwagon that's formed SOMEHOW on him.

I'm ignoring the first sentence because you are trying to mislead other people again. Again, F-team tsunamic has done absolutely nothing to defend himself until somebody thought he's doing this because he's town. This is why my suspicions on him remain.

I believe your suspicions on me are weak and you are purposely trying to mislead townies.

Ythan, do you have any interest in voting for anyone else in the event that F-team tsunamic doesn't get enough votes for a lynch? You should post more of your thoughts on other players.

[fatlikepig]

So. Many. Walls. ;-;

I agree with Hahon's suggestion of looking elsewhere for lynches, since we're probably only going to get so far with Ythan and F-team trading blows. If we do in fact decide on an F-team lynch, or if say F-team dies in the night, then we're left with very little information tomorrow, so I think this is starting to get a little counter-intuitive. Also, I mean, we might even get a better look at F-team if we start searching elsewhere, since it means he can stop behaving so defensively!

Most of us agreed to do this. It hasn't happened yet but I wouldn't pin that on any individual player. This doesn't seem like as good a time as any to do it though. Would everyone be ready to pick two top suspects?

I have a few suspects in mind right now, but wouldn't this potentially help the mafia? Townies who appear on that list may make easier lynch targets for the scum.

I get that you assert that f-team is town but you need to at least recognize the reasons he is under suspicion. It is possible that he, like everyone else who joined the wagon, was just hopping on a wagon with momentum for their own scummy reasons. But that applies to all of them, and you have to recognize that they nominally joined based on an agreement with the points made.

I'd like to look at Thomas's second unvote/unFoS on F-team.

So it looks like people do not support a lynch on F-team tsunamic so I will:

Unvote: F-team tsunamic

This seems strange to me. Surely, if you're convinced enough about someone's identity that you'll put a vote on them, then you won't just unvote them because "people do not support a lynch" on that person. Backing down because you've lost support instead of arguing to lynch someone you seem to have had strong suspicions about does not seem very pro-town at all.

[Thomas]

This seems strange to me. Surely, if you're convinced enough about someone's identity that you'll put a vote on them, then you won't just unvote them because "people do not support a lynch" on that person. Backing down because you've lost support instead of arguing to lynch someone you seem to have had strong suspicions about does not seem very pro-town at all.

Notice how I voted LadyDeathRage immediately after. If it wasn't for my suspicions on LadyDeathRage I would have kept my vote on F-team tsunamic. LadyDeathRage seems like a better candidate now to me.

[Ythan]

No town lists. They aren't good. There is no reason to post them. The only argument I have seen in favor of them is that it helps us narrow down who to look at. This isn't necessary. You look at who is scummy without telling the mafia who to kill at night.

Scum lists are good and we will be sharing who we think is scum.

I am now reviewing all of you sans f-team in isolation.

[Ythan]

I find that the overly cautious tend to be scummier then those who are more invested in solely finding scum (townies don’t usually have to worry about not looking scummy).

This is not reliable, especially in a newbie game, and as the basis for an attack or defense is worrying.

F-Team’s reaction to ythan reads very new-player and also very townie to me. His arguments are not great but the tone of the posts is what matters most to me. He seems very self-aware, which is something I personally try to do as town and wholeheartedly appreciate.

No part of this supports f-team being town. It's more unreliable tripe, but at least the first thing I quoted up above is persistent enough that I've seen at least one other person say it before. This here is just meh.

In fact, ythan going so relentlessly after him is worrying me since he seems to have about the exact opposite of my read.

It worries you that I have a different read on a player than you. Meh.

Thomith too, jumping on the wagon with a small 2-line post… never mind, he seems to come around later to the town-read and unvotes.

Dropping it because he changed his mind is not good investigating. If anything it should be more suspect to you. This looks more like you're dropping the suspicion because he began to act more consistently with your own stance, which is meh.

I find that scum talk a lot about what they're going to do later in the game (like she has), but end up doing little after that.

More of the same. Applying nebulous meta reads to new players is not a smart play.

F-team seems like indignant newbie-town, his defensive tone, calling out the IC position, and general annoyance reads genuine to me and often genuine = town.

More of the same.

I've seen many people in newbie games play like F-town has and not one has ever turned up mafia.

Meta which may or may not be based in fact and cannot be applied to the player in question, check.

I tend to agree with fatlikepig here. For one, I feel quiet scum is more likely to happen, in general, than loud scum.

More of the same, plus the obvious attribution to another player.

Second, here F-team is far too emotionally invested and he IS making gaffes. From what I've seen, 'loud scum' are more logical while loud town wear their emotions on their sleeves.

'Scum are quiet, except when they're not, but when they're not they still don't act like f-team.'

Seems we disagree on basically everything, because I also think that the prospect of being scum is intimidating enough that it's more likely to find quiet scum in newbie games (where you say it's more likely loud-scum happens in newbie games).

More of the same.

I like your play style, Ythan. Stick your fingers in your ears and belittle anything anybody says that challenges your tiny worldview. Got anything to say that does not amount to, "You're wrong1~@!!"?

Don't a piss poor job of actual participation.

[Ythan]

Lilac, you think Thomith is omgusing you for you obviously obviously obviously random vote in your first post?

[Ythan]

I think F-team tsunamic is too stupid to be scum so I will

Un-FoS: F-team tsunamic

.

This is meh, obviously. You yourself made a point about how anyone could be anything.

Should we lynch an inactive person today if this inactivity keeps up?

This is also meh. A horrible way to waste a lynch.

F-team tsunamic may be a newbie who is a townie.

Not the same as too stupid to be scum.

Mafia will usually start voting around the third to fourth votes.

Unreliable.

If we lynch you and you're mafia then I think one of the following is your mafia partner:
- F-team tsunamic
- fatlikepig
- Ythan

This raises all kinds of alarms. Trying to set up future lynches, without the information we will have at that point, and especially based off of positioning on a list is meh.

Well if LadyDeathRage is scum then I think she would have put her scum partner alone when she posted suspicions. Eg: She put Thomith and Haho together. Doesn't really mean much though so don't even defend yourself. We don't even know 100% if LadyDeathRage is scum yet.

Very unreliable speculative wifom.

I also like parts of LDR's post about you, see my responses there.

[Ythan]

F-team and maybe Else are my top suspects.

Second tier is probably one or the other of Thomas and LDR. I'm enjoying the quality of their arguments and am confident that they can produce more valuable material to read over with a critical eye, which is part of the reason they are ranked below f-team and elsa.

[Thomith]

I voted for you during the RVS and I have been unable to change my vote recently because of airplane and connection issues. Your vote on me feels like an OMGUS vote. I have not believed that you are scummy so far, but now I'm not too sure.

UNVOTE: Thomith I will unvote you because I have not seen you do anything scummy. Instead,

FoS: Thomith

Stay tuned for more feedback.

OMGUS votes have no reasoning i have a reason, you voted me and then never unvoted, making it seem like you find me scummy, and dont say "i couldn't unvote" as you have posted since RVS and you could have unvoted then.
and so my vote stays on you.

non existent accusations

but you accused him so this was not a non existant accusation.

everyone has turned on LadyDeathRage so there won't be enough people for a lynch. I'm fine with voting LadyDeathRage too because she's suspicious

this sounds like a bad case of "must sheep" fever. if you suspect someone you keep a vote on them, and if no one else is voting them then you convince them to. that is how mafia works not bandwagoning on someone for one post, which some people seem to be doing.

also some scum post actively to try and avoid suspicion, inactive players doesn't always mean scummy.

*fixed quote tag

[Ythan]

If you say "all scum do x" then some scum will stop doing x and do y instead.

Then if you say "all scum do y" some will do z.

And if you say "no scum does x anymore" they'll go back to that.

Making blanket statements about how every player will act as scum is stupid.

[Thomith]

not who's NOT suspicious

by posting who is suspicious you are telling people who is not suspicious as well. thus making this statement useless.

[fatlikepig]

By the way... speaking of suspicions I'm sort of concerned that nobody except the weakest player in the game, F-team tsunamic has showed suspicions (even though they weren't good) on Ythan. I'm not saying that he is scum but don't be afraid to show suspicions on him because if he's scum then we're screwed.

I think the main reason for this is that not many people (bar F-team, and perhaps some other people who haven't yet voiced their concern) believe that Ythan is scum, since his questions have been decidedly pro-town thus far. Why does the fact that no-one finds Ythan, who you yourself do not seem to be that suspicious of, suspicious worry you?

[F-team tsunamic]

F-team and maybe Else are my top suspects.

Second tier is probably one or the other of

Thomas

and LDR.

I'm enjoying the quality of their arguments and am confident that they can produce more valuable material

to read over with a critical eye, which is part of the reason they are ranked below f-team and elsa.

Please Ythan let us know something: Which of Thomas's arguments do you find to be of quality? Which instill in you the confidence that he will be able to provide more of the same?

[F-team tsunamic]

non existent accusations

but you accused him so this was not a non existant accusation.

Please forgive me if this was confusing. I simply meant that at the time i posted my remittance I was erasing all prior notions and suspicions in an attempt to clear my head. I did not hold an active accusation toward Ythan at the time of my retraction or at the time in which he went so thoroughly through the post. I had made them before then, and certainly since then but not at that specific time.

[Ythan]

F-team and maybe Else are my top suspects.

Second tier is probably one or the other of

Thomas

and LDR.

I'm enjoying the quality of their arguments and am confident that they can produce more valuable material

to read over with a critical eye, which is part of the reason they are ranked below f-team and elsa.

Please Ythan let us know something: Which of Thomas's arguments do you find to be of quality? Which instill in you the confidence that he will be able to provide more of the same?

I enjoy the quality of their arguments, as I stated immediately after the use of those words, in that they provide valid material to sift through for tells. As opposed to your posts which do not.

[F-team tsunamic]

I knew what you meant. I did not ask of

what

quality you to believe them to be. I asked, "Which of Thomas's arguments do you find to be of [the] quality [that you have determined.]?".
Again, the second question was mostly the same question but more focused on your perception of Thomas, "[Which make you think he'll keep it up*]"?

Could you please clarify the last line in your post?

*I'm a bit concerned that my vocabulary is putting some of the members of this game off. For instance, Thomas's post about my words resembling an internet contract and both thomas and Ythan's insistence that I have said the same things over and over. If the fact of the matter is that you just simply do not know the words I'm using, please either say as much or,
1. open a new tab
2. navigate this tab to the search engine of your preference
3. return to the tab parked on M.S.net
4. right click and copy the word you do not understand
5. go back to the tab parked at your search engine
6. right click and paste the word in to the search bar
7. press enter or click search
8. look for the definition in the results, it will probably be one of the first organic search results.

I'll try to make my responses as simple as I can so that any miscommunications that are taking place due to my words being too tough will be fixed.

[Ythan]

Thomas's last handful of posts show a willingness to actually address the content of posts made against him and this is comforting in a game where we have to deal with players who refuse to do so. I don't see any reason he's going to stop doing so.

I think the problem is not that you're using words people don't understand, it's that you're (attempting) using unnecessary flowery language to look smart.

[LadyDeathRage]

Spoiler: Ythan's Defense

Well, certainly for Ythan, absolutely.

I read this as tacit recognition that I am being sincere. While I am being sincere, dropping a tell that you take it for granted concerns me.

his initial post (which Ythan found so scummy in the first place)

I didn't find it so scummy, actually, and I've reiterated this a number of times. It's pretty null. What about it reads as town to you?

and the fact that he's taking Ythan's constant pressure in stride.

How on Earth do you get 'taking it in stride' out of any post he has made.

Yes, he's defensive. But if someone were claiming in no uncertain terms that you're scum when you know that you're not, what would you be, aloof?

No, I'd defend myself by actually addressing the concerns raised against me. That's what I've been doing about his omgus. That's not what he's been doing at all.

I saw this as a town-oriented post because if he were Mafia, well, it just wouldn't be as funny.

This makes no kind of sense. His post would have been less funny if he's scum? Uh.

HE HAS DEFENDED HIMSELF SEVERAL TIMES IN SEVERAL POSTS TO SEVERAL PEOPLE.

He's argued against being scum but he's doing nothing to address the cases against him. Whining about pressure does not a townie make.

A) Who the shit cares if you're the second vote on someone right out of the gates? Yeah, if he's got 3 votes on him and you put him one vote away from being lynched, okay…suspect away. That makes perfect sense to me. But really, putting a second vote on someone during RVS is scummy? If we all HAD to put our votes on different people, well, that DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF THE RVS IN THE FIRST PLACE. The idea behind randomly voting someone is to see what that pressure reveals. If we're all expected to all be voting for different people, that completely negates any pressure that the vote would carry.

While I disagree that any of the other random votes I saw were made in an attempt to apply pressure or find scum, I do agree about his concern. I believe I mentioned it earlier when it happened.

B) See the

italicized

bit. Please note that he's suggesting that everyone post who they think are the most suspicious 2 people in the game…in a few real-life days. Stay tuned to see if he follows through with this!

Most of us agreed to do this. It hasn't happened yet but I wouldn't pin that on any individual player. This doesn't seem like as good a time as any to do it though.

Would everyone be ready to pick two top suspects?

C) FoS of F-Team. Hops on a bandwagon with little to no reasoning behind it.

I get that you assert that f-team is town but you need to at least recognize the reasons he is under suspicion. It is possible that he, like everyone else who joined the wagon, was just hopping on a wagon with momentum for their own scummy reasons. But that applies to all of them, and you have to recognize that they nominally joined based on an agreement with the points made.

I didn't like this post because at no point did F-Team say that the reason he suspected Ythan was because he's more experienced. At no point did he ELLUDE to that notion. Heck, he didn't even hint at it. What he said was he didn't like the WAY he attacked him, the new guy. He DID say that he thought that Ythan, the more experienced guy, was attacking him, the new guy. At no point was that ever given as his REASON for suspecting him.

This might be a good catch. High five.

Okay, here Thomas explains why, in detail, he voted for F-Team. I'll paraphrase here: "We vote for him because Ythan votes for him. Plus he's annoying. Why don't YOU find him suspicious?"

Not because I voted for him but because of the reasons I shared behind why I voted for him.

….so this means that F-Team is logically not able to be scum, yes? Because he asked this question? No? Where EXACTLY do you stand on the F-Team wagon?

This really stuck out to me when it first came up. I followed it up and based on f-teams answers to some questioning about his thought process leading up to asking the question I disregarded it. I can go into more detail if it isn't clear why I did.

Oh, okay…as you were I guess.

Was this you relenting for a moment because he left off pursuing f-team? Does the reason he dropped it not raise any eyebrows?

Actually, since there are two members of a scum-team in this setup and he's voting on one person already, it seems logical to FoS who he suspects of being his scum-buddy. I mean, up to now you've been acting pretty scummy, why not have more than one suspect? I agree that having FEW suspects is more ideal than having a bunch of suspects…but you YOURSELF have FoS'd THREE people at once in this game already. You're starting to contradict yourself here.

This is a plausible concern, actually. I figured the response was sparked more by the misused vote tag, which made it appear that he was voting and not just FoSing, but his response to throwing around multiple accusations is something I missed as a result.

My reasons why I don't find F-Team suspicious AND my list of the two most scummy people in the game, just in time!

Was your reasoning for suspecting me supposed to be summed up here to? If so, could you clarify a bit because I have clearly missed out and I'd like to respond.

Or, in other words… "Oh shit, the bandwagon I was so confident in not even 12 hours ago is losing steam, RAPDILY. Hmmm…Oh look, someone who appears to be inactive! DIE!"

Valid point.

Or, in other words "Oh shit, F-Team has my number…better attempt to discredit him with NO logic and NO reasoning other than 'you're making shit up, go read the thread'."

Well that kind of is the situation with f-team at this point.

Which is interesting, because of anyone in the thread besides maybe Ythan, F-Team has clearly read the thread the most…as he's repeatedly defended himself against this weak-ass bandwagon that's formed SOMEHOW on him.

Responding to it and addressing the points are clearly not the same, that's why he's still in the hole he's dug.

Inside the spoiler is a pretty long defense. What I find the most interesting is the subject of his defense. He quoted several points of my post, but they were all referencing his attack of F-Team, trying to validate it. But aside from the paragraph at the beginning, my post was EXCLUSIVELY about Thomas. And in spite of recognizing that in this post, he still goes on to only attack F-Team and not pay any attention to someone else that's scummy in town, someone he himself has admitted has exerted scummy behavior.

Thomas has also commented on my post, and when I read it, I got the sense that he doesn't find me all that suspicious at all. That he's scum and he's suddenly only suspicious of me because I drew attention to him. He claimed he was suspicious before my post on him, it's true. But please keep in mind that he was suspicious of ALL lurkers at the time, and at the time all he knew about me was that A) I was a lurker and B) I did NOT agree that F-Team was suspicious. Suspicious? I find that suspicious. I find that VERY suspicious.

I still haven't done that ISO of Ythan's posts, but it's still on my to-do list. In the meantime, I'd like for people to comment on my post against Thomas, in the name of generating discussion that's NOT based around Ythan and F-Team.

[LadyDeathRage]

proposition: Temporarily forget about tsunamic...for now. as of right now nothing is really changing in the arguments on either side as far as I can tell. its just a back and forth "you said this" "no i didn't" "yes huh" "nuh uh" fest. at least that's what it seems like to me, and it really isn't getting us anywhere. he's still at the top, or near, of my list for now and the way things are looking, arguing with him isn't going to change that

While I tend to agree with this as Ythan's accusations hold absolutely no merit whatsoever, the fact that you agree that F-Team is suspicious begs me to ask you why YOU in particular find F-Team suspicious, as you have provided NO reasons of your own and have contributed less in this game than F-Team by FAR. Which of Ythan's "accusations" are you MOST in agreement with? Which of his "accusations" are you LEAST satisfied with, and want to know more about? I'm sure he'd be happy to tell you all about it, because it's ALL he wants to talk about.

I challenge anyone who agrees with Ythan that F-Team is suspicious to quote a post of F-Team's that you find suspicious and say, in your own words, why you find it suspicious. Go on. This is a baseless bandwagon that Ythan is trying to drive and it should seriously stop now. F-Team is a contributing member of the town, more-so than MOST of the rest you. I for one will take any suspicions he has VERY seriously indeed because I think he's town, and therefor I don't have to worry that he's manipulating anyone against anyone else. I can't say the same about anyone else in town right now except for anyone who has openly put suspicion on someone OTHER than F-Team. THESE are the people I'm choosing to trust right now. And because I'm confident that Thomas is scum, I'm not afraid to appear that I'm BUDDYING with F-Team by coming to his defense, because that would leave only one scum remaining after today's lynch. And I'm guessing they wouldn't be hard to find if Thomas flips scum.

I hope you guys do the right thing. F-Team seems cool and I hope you guys give him a chance.

[LadyDeathRage]

I think F-team tsunamic is too stupid to be scum so I will

Un-FoS: F-team tsunamic

.

This is meh, obviously. You yourself made a point about how anyone could be anything.

Should we lynch an inactive person today if this inactivity keeps up?

This is also meh. A horrible way to waste a lynch.

F-team tsunamic may be a newbie who is a townie.

Not the same as too stupid to be scum.

Mafia will usually start voting around the third to fourth votes.

Unreliable.

If we lynch you and you're mafia then I think one of the following is your mafia partner:
- F-team tsunamic
- fatlikepig
- Ythan

This raises all kinds of alarms. Trying to set up future lynches, without the information we will have at that point, and especially based off of positioning on a list is meh.

Well if LadyDeathRage is scum then I think she would have put her scum partner alone when she posted suspicions. Eg: She put Thomith and Haho together. Doesn't really mean much though so don't even defend yourself. We don't even know 100% if LadyDeathRage is scum yet.

Very unreliable speculative wifom.

I also like parts of LDR's post about you, see my responses there.

What I find suspicious about this post is that he's able to explain away about 75% of Thomas' posts with either 'Meh' or 'Unreliable'. But he's VERY articulate in his attacks on F-Team. VERY articulate indeed. And the responses he's referencing to my post, the one's he wants Thomas to see, they're...noncommittal at best. What it looks more like to me is (paraphrasing) "She's right about these points - fix it you fool!"

Come to think of it, MOST of responses to the posts of ANYONE he's looked at in isolation have had the same 'Bleh' feel that I DON'T get when I read his attacks on F-Team. Ythan, if you'd be a dear and maybe, I don't know, ELABORATE a bit on your analysis of ANYONE else in town besides F-Team? I LOVE to read, and I'd be just FASCINATED to hear what you have to say. ^^

Furthermore, he tries to appeal to me in particular by bringing me up. Please note that he brings up now that the long post I made was about Thomas, but his very first response to it was a defense of his attack on F-Team.

I recommend very strongly that we lynch Thomas today. Again, in case anyone is not clear yet what I'm saying.

I do not believe F-Team is suspicious and anyone voting for him is suspicious to me. I find Thomas very suspicious and I think that he's a VERY good lynch candidate. Anyone who finds me scummy because of my inactivity I also find suspicious because as of right now, I've contributed more than you. I'm looking at you Thomas.

I'm going to bed now, I hope to see more discussion BESIDES F-Town and Ythan. We have 10 pages of information on the subject. We still have a long day ahead of us. Let's start talking other suspects. We can decide between F-Town and...whoever...later.

[hiphop]

Once Again the Votecount

Votecount 1.6

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

LadyDeathRage(2): Elsa von Spielburg, Thomas
F-team tsunamic(1): Ythan
Ythan(1): F-team tsunamic
lilac(1): Thomith
Thomas(1): LadyDeathRage

Not Voting(3): hahonryuu, fatlikepig, lilac

Notes:

There is nothing here

Deadline is the End of July 22nd PST.

[F-team tsunamic]

Thomas's last handful of posts show a willingness to actually address the content of posts made against him and this is comforting in a game where we have to deal with players who refuse to do so. I don't see any reason he's going to stop doing so.

These are not specific. I am asking,

thrice

now, for

the

posts you found to be helpful, not an ambiguous grouping like a few or a handful. Please answer with specifics. Again, your second answer is not at all what I asked of you and is starting to constitute what i believe to be an unwillingness to elaborate on your part. Please, again

thrice

now i've asked, Which of his posts make you feel as though he'll keep it up.?

I think the problem is not that you're using words people don't understand, it's that you're (attempting) using unnecessary flowery language to look smart.

Take a lesson:
When people said that I was "taking it in stride" they meant that I don't raise to the petty attacks you make against my intelligence, my abilities as a gamer, or my life("Defend yourself or Die"). You have attacked me with all three with no provocation from me. As a matter of fact, none save you and Thomas has actually attacked me verbally(textually) and that shows a lack of composure on both your parts. Certainly I got an ascii face palm for my lack of knowledge, but that is about as far as anyone else has gone to cut me. The vast majority of your posts have needless barbs strewn throughout. Mine do not, and will not. This might aid your gameplay in the future, something I'm happy to help with. Also remember your own wise words

I don't want you to feel that there is any negative intent coming from my end. I don't mean that in relation to the 2/9 chance that I'm scum, I just want to insure, after reading your posts, that you know it's all cool dude.

I hope you know I feel the same way, and again to borrow wise words already spoken

...we're here to have fun, right? This is a game, yes?

[F-team tsunamic]

I'd like for people to comment on my post against Thomas, in the name of generating discussion that's NOT based around Ythan and F-Team.

I understand it to mean that the discussion shouldn't be based on my situation with Ythaan, however I wanted to ask first, would you still like to hear my perspective on the post against thomas?
Sorry for the double post!

[F-team tsunamic]

ebwoTp
*Ythan, not Ythaan. Typo.