Mini 1198 - Marketplace Mafia - Game Over

[IceGuy]

So, I OMGUS'd the 3rd or 4th one on my wagon?

You OMGUS'd the only person on your wagon who isn't conftown.

[Ethos]

You OMGUS'd the only person on your wagon who isn't conftown.

Mal and Bobsnox are far from confirmed town or town at all. You continue to attempt to ignore the fact that my vote on you was placed before you began attacking HN and still somehow manage to continue pushing your flimsy and weak transaction accusation despite how obvious it is that it's incorrect.

It is a fact, you're grasping at straws at the moment and if you're town which I highly doubt you are you need to stand back and realize that.

[Magua]

Vote Count 2.2

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

HellloooNewman (5): malpascp, bobsnox, hiphop, Seacore, IceGuy
malpascp (1): ChaosOmega
IceGuy (2): Ethos, HellloooNewman

Not voting (4): RedCoyote, PeregrineV, Midnight's Sorrow, Ghostlin

Deadline is July 20th, at 1:00pm EST (site time).
Coutdown to deadline:

(expired on 2011-07-20 13:00:00)

Most Advertised Ability:

None

#	Name	Minimum Bid	Current Bid	Auction Length	Countdown
12	Auction Detective x 2	$25	-	5 days	(expired on 2011-07-11 13:00:00)
13	Commuter x 2	$25	-	5 days	(expired on 2011-07-11 13:00:00)
14	Doctor x 2	$40	-	5 days	(expired on 2011-07-11 13:00:00)
15	Love Potion x 1	$25	-	5 days	(expired on 2011-07-11 13:00:00)
16	Medium x 3	$25	-	5 days	(expired on 2011-07-11 13:00:00)
17	Night-kill x 1	$50	$190	7 days	(expired on 2011-07-13 13:00:00)
18	Ninja x 4	$25	-	3 days	(expired on 2011-07-09 13:00:00)
19	Roleblocker x 3	$50	-	5 days	(expired on 2011-07-11 13:00:00)
20	Tracker x 2	$10	$10	3 days	(expired on 2011-07-09 13:00:00)
21	Watcher x 1	$20	$20	7 days	(expired on 2011-07-13 13:00:00)

Spoiler: Abridged Ability Glossary

• Auction Detective (Day):
  Choose another player and a specific auction from the current Day. You will learn whether or not that player won that auction (if it has ended) or is the current highest bidder (if it is still running).
• Commuter (Personal):
  All Targeted abilities that target you will be roleblocked. However, you may not activate any of your Targeted abilities. Personal abilities may be activated and will continue to work as normal. If a Targeted ability that would return a result is used on you, it will instead return “Ability failed”.
• Doctor (Targeted):
  Choose another player. That player will be protected against a single Night-kill that targets them this Night.
• Love Potion (Targeted):
  Choose another player. That player will not be allowed to vote for a player of your choice (which may be you) during the next Day, chosen when you activate this power. This will be announced in-thread the first time your targeted player attempts to vote for the chosen player. This will not affect the lynch threshhold.
• Medium (Targeted):
  Choose another player. If that player dies during this Night, a Ghost Quicktopic will be provided that either of you may talk in at any time until the end of the following Day, at which time it will be closed. The dead player will not be given the results of any of their abilities for the Night they died, and they will not be given access to the Dead Quicktopic until the Ghost Quicktopic has closed.
• Night-kill (Targeted):
  Choose another player. That player will die unless protected.
• Ninja (Personal):
  You may choose which of your visits (if any) will appear on Tracker or Watcher reports and which will not.
• Roleblocker (Targeted):
  Choose another player. All of their Targeted abilities that they activated for that night, except for roleblocks, will fail. Personal abilities will continue to work. Abilities that were not activated are not affected. If the Targeted ability would return a result, it will instead return “Ability failed”.
• Tracker (Targeted):
  Choose another player. You will be informed which players (if any) that player visited during the Night, but not the nature of each visit. However, other abilities may modify the result of the report. A roleblocked ability activation is not considered a visit.
• Watcher (Targeted):
  Choose another player. You will be informed which players (if any) visited that player during the Night, but not the nature of each visit. However, other abilities may modify the result of the report. A roleblocked ability activation is not considered a visit.

@ Mod - Is the current high bid on NK correct? I bid $190, am not the high bidder, but the auction lists high bidder @ $190?

The current high bid on 17. Night-kill x 1 is correctly listed as $190.

For the second half of your question, I direct you to the "Bidding Example" in section III of the rules.

[HellloooNewman]

Ahhhh, I understand now.

The ability "Extra Vote x 2" is in the marketplace. It has a starting bid of $10, but no current bid as of yet.

Magua has $100. He sends a PM that includes “Maximum Bid: Extra Vote x 2, $50”. This costs Magua $1 immediately. Magua is now the highest bidder for "Extra Vote x 2", with a current bid of $10 (the minimum amount required to win). He has $99, but $50 of that is in escrow in case he wins the auction -- he really can only spend $49.

Faraday has $100. He sends a PM that includes “Maximum Bid: Extra Vote x 2, $40.” This costs Faraday $1 immediately. Magua remains the highest bidder, with a current bid of $40

(Magua’s bid was earlier than Faraday’s; if it had not been, Magua would be the highest bidder with a current bid of $41)

. Faraday has $99, and can spend $99. Magua still has $99, and can still only spend $49.

If you apply this to the situation that happened previously, it completely backs up what I am saying. Hiphop's max bid was ALREADY set higher than my max bid of $190. Since he bid that amount first, that is why he is the high bidder @ $190.

[HellloooNewman]

EBWOP:

Everything I have said is backed up by the FACTS that we have. I openly admit to making a dumb mistake (sending PM's before reading the thread). I accept the suspicion that comes with it. But, I think it is plenty clear now that ALL it was, was my mistake.

Iceguy however, is chomping at the bit to get me lynched. He saw a wagon forming, he jumped on, tried pushing it.....and failed miserably. That is todays best vote ladies and gentlemen.

Furthermore, I happily invite the Cop to investigate me tonight. In fact, I welcome it.

[Ethos]

Good now that everything is explained and dealt with can we start moving this game forward again, the votes on HN need to come of and move to IG. Slaxx and I are in the process of completing our information dump which should be in the thread in the next 12 hours.

[IceGuy]

Mal and Bobsnox are far from confirmed town or town at all. You continue to attempt to ignore the fact that my vote on you was placed before you began attacking HN and still somehow manage to continue pushing your flimsy and weak transaction accusation despite how obvious it is that it's incorrect.

Yeah, my post was a shot from the hip. What it actually boils down to: I attacked him after others attacked him (partly simply due to time zone differences), I voiced my suspicions and didn't just jump on the wagon, and I am not conftown. This makes me the primary target for scum trying to force a mislynch.

At this moment, neither you nor Newman have provided any explanations for my questions (why you voted me without a case, and why Newman claimed different bid amounts), instead preferring to attack me. Since I'm sure Newman will not be placed at L-1 or hammered before the mod's explanation, I believe my vote is currently in the right place.

P-Edit:
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ethos
The mod's explanation satisfies me enough to move my vote. I'll still be watching you, though, and I will put my vote back on you if necessary. Ethos seems to be trying very hard to start a wagon on me without providing any justification.

[Magua]

Breaking News

We adjourned for a short bathroom break as the eggheads started arguing numbers. [Expletive deleted], I got my MBA so that I wouldn't have to deal with [expletive deleted] numbers.

I surfed the web instead while everyone was distracted. Pornography, Facebook, pornography, my online poker site, pornography, news...wait a minute...what was this story?

"Masked Marauder Mugs Marketplace More"

I glanced through it. Person in mask. Made off with...[expletive deleted], almost two hundred dollars! I sat and thought about the king-sized mansion I could be living in for two hundred dollars, not to mention the requisite Ferrari. I daydreamed like that for awhile while everyone came in and continued their arguments.

Event:

$190 was taken from

the Marketplace

.

[malpascp]

Anyone has an idea of what this means?

[Ethos]

Not exactly sure what Maguas last post means at all considering a similar occurance happened in this post but I noticed no difference in the next auction sales list, perhaps Hiphop can elaborate into its meaning.

I don't see any justification for your vote except that you're defending Newman at all costs and I'm one of his attackers.

Your vote and incredibly opportunistic push on HN was just the final straw and solidified my suspicions of you. My vote was placed on you before you attempted to 'attack' HN so I'm unsure how you're attempting to link the two actions furthermore if I was attempting to just attack the people attacking HN I wouldn't have stated I had a town-read on Seacore and Hiphop the leading attacks of him in my previous post.

Ethos seems to be trying very hard to start a wagon on me without providing any justification.

You've just attempted to construct an entire made up transaction record to place your vote on him without even mentioning that it takes him to L-2 furthermore you've avoided discussing the lynch yesterday which you were not part of, the items up for auction today, the abilities won yesterday and much more.

At this moment,

neither you nor Newman have provided any explanations for

my questions

(why you voted me without a case

, and why Newman claimed different bid amounts), instead preferring to attack me.

This is a blatant lie, you haven't attempted to ask me a single question through our entire conversation and I outright challenge you to quote and provide them.

[IceGuy]

Anyone has an idea of what this means?

I'm guessing at least one of the scum groups has an ability to finance itself by stealing. Note how the dollar amount is always equal to the highest bid.

This is a blatant lie, you haven't attempted to ask me a single question through our entire conversation and I outright challenge you to quote and provide them.

*facepalm*
When I point out that you don't have a justification for something, like I did in ISO 14 and 22, or when I say there is no plausible explanation (ISO 13), this means that I consider you scummy until you provide me with a justification/explanation, and you did not. Yes, it is not a "question" in the formal sense, but it boils down to the same.

[HellloooNewman]

Yeah, my post was a shot from the hip. What it actually boils down to: I attacked him after others attacked him (partly simply due to time zone differences), I voiced my suspicions and didn't just jump on the wagon, and I am not conftown. This makes me the primary target for scum trying to force a mislynch.

Yeah, cause attention has been on you ALLLLLL day.
::double facepalm::

At this moment, neither you nor Newman have provided any explanations for my questions (why you voted me without a case,

and why Newman claimed different bid amounts

), instead preferring to attack me. Since I'm sure Newman will not be placed at L-1 or hammered before the mod's explanation, I believe my vote is currently in the right place.

Ummm.....learn to read? Here, I'll quote it for you!

Re: 189 vs. 190 - when I said 189 I was going off the top of my head, using the math that made sense. When you guys freaked out, I went through my pm's to get exact amounts.

[Ethos]

When I point out that you don't have a justification for something, like I did in ISO 14 and 22, or when I say there is no plausible explanation (ISO 13), this means that I consider you scummy until you provide me with a justification/explanation, and you did not. Yes, it is not a "question" in the formal sense, but it boils down to the same.

And those were answered a long time ago as quoted in my previous post, you just attempted to find any form of reasoning to jump your vote over and ended up stating that two people didn't answer your "questions" which weren't really questions and were both responded to.

[IceGuy]

Ummm.....learn to read? Here, I'll quote it for you!

Re: 189 vs. 190 - when I said 189 I was going off the top of my head, using the math that made sense. When you guys freaked out, I went through my pm's to get exact amounts.

So the number off the top of your head was "189", whereas the actual number was "190"? How did you arrive at that number?

And those were answered a long time ago as quoted in my previous post, you just attempted to find any form of reasoning to jump your vote over and ended up stating that two people didn't answer your "questions" which weren't really questions and were both responded to.

Then please provide me with a quote containing your justification for your vote in post #239 which does not exclusively refer to events after this post.

[HellloooNewman]

Ummm.....learn to read? Here, I'll quote it for you!

Re: 189 vs. 190 - when I said 189 I was going off the top of my head,

using the math that made sense

. When you guys freaked out, I went through my pm's to get exact amounts.

So the number off the top of your head was "189", whereas the actual number was "190"? How did you arrive at that number?

Before I understood the rules completely, when I saw that the high bid (which was not mine) was $190, I figured I must have bid $189. Afterwards, when I looked back through my inbox to give my step-by-step bid process, I realized that I bid $190. Which, at the time, made no sense to me. Now, having re-read the rules as prompted by the Mod, I do.

Are you up to speed yet?

[Ghostlin]

Catching up.

Newman

: Why did you bid what would have been every last penny on NK? If you did so, do you believe that NK is in the hands of scum, and if so, do you believe hiphop is scum? (Being the only other person to bid on NK.) If not, why do you think that scum would not be bidding on an ability they need (NK).

On my investigation:

I had investigated Seacore because I had a lot of powerful town reads and not a lot of scum to null reads. Today has been an interesting day as far as that goes.

All:

The game encourages quicklynching, however, do those on Newman's wagon believe he's scummy enough to lynch asap?

[Ghostlin]

re: Marketplace theft:

Someone in this game has the ability to steal the highest bid from the Marketplace, is my best guess. Each time the Marketplace has been stolen from the amount is equal to the highest bid in the game currently.

[HellloooNewman]

As I stated, I was unaware of Hiphop bidding on NK as well. I thought that NK was likely to be bid on by scum, and I wanted to keep it away from them. I figured, as I had invested money, that I may have had enough to win it outright, if not I would at least drive the price up on the scum.

Had I won it, I would have claimed it in thread, and used it as a de-facto 2nd lynch (voting on who I used it on).

[Ethos]

Then please provide me with a quote containing your justification for your vote in post #239 which does not exclusively refer to events after this post.

I dipped on it in Post #247 but for the sake of completeness the entire reasoning behind the vote revolved around process of elimination as we have as stated multiple strong town reads, the fact that your posts throughout day one included no real content relating to the game outside of mechanics. Avoidance of joining or commenting on the WLC wagon during and after it, your statement that you were going to invest on day one but no comment on what you plan on spend your funds on and your lack of care over who is recieving what power.

Since then however you've contradicted yourself by attempting to push OMGUS as a scum-tell while OMGUS'ing us yourself and clearly grasped at straws over an inconceivable transaction history and record despite an overwhelming amount of facts proving it incorrect. Still waiting for Slaxx to get back for the repo but we should have our information out in the next few hours or at the very latest in the morning.

[Ethos]

Time for that information dump I was talking about.

We sniped Governor and Neighbourizer yesterday to prevent mafia from obtaining them. What we now know is that: Ghostin bought Cop for $90. Seacore bought Setup information for $41. HelloNewman bought Oracle for $20. Ethos bought Neighourizer for $20 and governor for $31. We also know that mafia won Extra vote for $40, Nightkill for $100, Investigation Immunity for $39 and Vote Nullifer for $35. So we know that mafia used $214 minimum on the day one auction. That leaves Doctor being bought for $40 and Last will being bought for $29. There's no reason for either of these to claim just yet but later in the game them claiming and everyone stating their full transaction history would be optimal.

Now onto our reads, a summary of them are:

Town Reads (Strongest to Weakest):

Seacore, Hiphop, Newman, Ghostlin, Bobsnox, RedCoyote, Pere.

Null Reads:

Chaos.

Scum Reads (Strongest to Weakest):

IceyGuy, MidnightSorrow, Mal.

Spoiler: Explanation of our reads

1. RedCoyote, the fact that he mentioned that the deadline mechanic can lead towards opportunistic hammers inthread reads as a town-tell because that is generally something expected to be brought up in the QT by mafia. Our town read on him revolves around Post #179, his attitude and actions when pushing WLC reads as highly geninue, even to the point where I'd bet Slaxx's life on him not being WLCs partner however it's possible he is on an alternate scumteam but I'll worry about that later. Overall I have a relatively strong town read on him.

2. PeregrineV, although his suggestion about a no lynch and investigate proposal wasn't anywhere near optimal it showed a clear sign of town thinking and I cannot see him attempting to propose such a plan as mafia at all. Overall I have a relatively strong town read on him.

3. Midnight Sorrow, this is a really tricky one to explain. Near game start I had a decently strong scum read on him however as the day progressed and when WLC flipped scum the read changed to town however going back and looking into it I can't exactly work out what caused the change. Overall I have a null slightly leaning town read on him.

4. HellowNewman, this is a read both of us are incredibly certain on. His suggestion of mass-cash claiming is one mafia would avoid bringing up, his aiming for setup information is highly town motivated, there's almost zilch bonus for scum spending funds on it furthermore openely claiming the information in thread is a massive town-tell. I can understand viewing his bid on NK when it was told to be bid on by hiphop to be scummy however at the same time I really, really do not see him stating that he was aiming for nightkill as scum, especially considering the circumstances. Overall I have an exceedingly strong town read on him.

5. Hiphop, this is another read I'm near sure on, the fact that he was aiming for investigation immunity to prevent mafia from having it is a town-tell furthermore the fact that it was outbit with no one claiming it means that mafia attempted to snipe it of him therefore proving that Hiphop is town. His consideration on spending money in investment at the start of day one is another town-tell, town know they need to save money up to damage mafia whereas mafia know they need to attempt to bid for items every day rather than saving up. His vote on WLC again reads as a town-tell as does his open suggestion of him bidding on nightkill knowing that it would be vig votted. Overall I have an exceedingly strong town read on him.

6. Bobs, definitely not scum with Weyoun based on the nature of his vote. He had a good and original/insightful reason for voting weyouns. In addition, him drawing people on Weyouns wagon (us at post #161) pretty much confirms him not-scum-with Weyoun. Probably town, definitely not scum with WNC.

7. Seacore, his openness with the setup information+ his general demeanor day 1 makes him obvtown. Comes across as very genuine, his WNC vote was decent, but what makes him town (or not scum with WNC) is the way WNC pretty much tunnelled on him day 1. Town.

8. Chaos:, not much from Chaos. His #69 is a slight town tell, and he definitely isn't scum with Mal. Null-Leaning Town.

9. Ghostlin, we had a scum read on him until he claimed with cop. His investigation was silly but I can't see scum claiming cop and saying they used it, especially this early.

10.Mal, his early obsession with the SK was pretty bad-looking, but he hasnt done much since that is overly scummy. More of a PoE read. Null-Scum.

11. Icey, explained earlier.

[Ethos]

The first five of the eleven reads were mine and Slaxx did the other six, my reads were done by me days ago so the 'overall' sections are slightly outdated as our reads have changed since then so I would recommend looking at the summary to properly understand all of our reads.

[Ghostlin]

Wait. Something's wrong here.

Newman, why did you counterbid hiplop after he said the NK was at $116 on post 207?

Let me show you what I'm talking about:

#201:

Am I the only one who sees that nk went for $100? Which means that town does not have it, but mafia.

Oh and because I did not win any auctions yesterday, and had invested money at the start of the day yesterday, I fully intend to win an ability today. I was thinking nk, thoughts?

#202:

Of course hiphop, I made the connection the moment Night landed and then promptly forgot. Excellent job picking that up.

That means
1. Doc protected target
2. WLC won the NK.
3. Scum held on to the kill.

However, if that's the case, then we must assume that no other scum were in a position to outbid him, because why wouldn't they have just bid $1 more?

There's the possibility that there is town with lots of money and they did that... but still.

Yes hiphop, throw all of your money down on the NK. Good job!

#207:

Nk is currently at $117, Either
A: town had bid on it, before I said something.
B: Scum had bid on it.

And if it is scum, would it be more likely someone that has posted in day 2, or a lurker?

Bluntly, the only two reasons (besides not reading the thread) one would bid on NK at that point would be:

1) They believed hiphop was scum and outbid him to ensure he didn't have it.
2) They were scum either counterbidding or reestablishing their bid.

Newman said he didn't believe Hiphop was scum--yet is forcing him to spend more money to acquire NK?

Vote: HelloNewman

However, Icey's opportunism, particularly since there are plenty of good reasons to vote HN, reeks of scum--I would support an IG lynch.

[Ethos]

Then please, Ghostlin, get off newman and lets do an Icey lynch. For the love of god newman is town.

[Ethos]

Newman is at L-1, no one else vote

[ChaosOmega]

Just for clarification, Newman is at L-2. IceGuy unvoted after Magua's last vote count.

Reading through all of this now to try to get a read on everything.