Newbie 1117(Town Wins)

[Voidedmafia]

@verydark and bvoigt
Any case I made on you would have easily been arguable with "Well you're just mad cause we're voting you."

So, this basically amounts to, "I don't want to make a case"?

Please, you can do better than that. What happened to that end-of-D1 play?

[zMuffinMan]

@BB,

I don't think Toasty-bv is all that likely. I'll consider it if one of them is lynched and flips scum, but it's nowhere near the top of my possible-scum-partners list.

@Voided,

I've probably missed it, but who are your suspects today?

[BBmolla]

@verydark and bvoigt
Any case I made on you would have easily been arguable with "Well you're just mad cause we're voting you."

So, this basically amounts to, "I don't want to make a case"?

Please, you can do better than that. What happened to that end-of-D1 play?

K I'll make a case.

For verydark, it's absolutely undeniable that you are using "Tunnel Vision" as I've stated before. You did FoS Kad at one point, but kept your vote on me regardless. Out of your seventeen posts, you mention your suspicions of me being scum in your post 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16. That's literally 13/17 posts where you mention I'm scum. If that's not tunneling, I don't know what is. You have literally ignored every other player, except for Kad who you FoSed at one point like I said, Muffin who you mention is probably my scumbro, and voided who was looking bad because of some bullcrap technicalities. You given me nothing to read off of because all you are is a person pointing his finger at me and nothing more. IMO, you've been not a bit more useful then Kad, who while FOSing me still gave his thoughts on other people's points and looked at almost everyone.

For bvoigt, he did not make the same mistakes at Verydark. While FoSing me, he's always given his opinion on everyone and props for that. I don't have anything very solid on bvoigt just feelings and deduction. I haven't gotten any posts from him that scream town to me, which makes him scummier by default than some of the others. He hasn't said anything that could be counted as too drastic. If he is scum, he's a very good scum which would make sense considering him being the IC.

That's as good as a case I can really make.

[zMuffinMan]

eh, while I don't like verydark's tunneling and would prefer he stops, he's still reading as town for me. There are particular nuances in his posts that give me town vibes.

e.g.

Alright, I've had to reread the game 5 times just to make sure I'm getting everyone's reads correct, it's easy to get lost when you haven't been posting the whole time.

I see that we've moved past RVS, so I will cast my vote on my biggest scum read, and allow everyone to refute or affirm my suspicions.

VOTE: BBmolla

...and here's why.

This part of his ISO#1 reads as town to me.

[SomeRandomGuy]

I'm going to take a look through voided's ISO to verify or disprove what you've said BB, as well as looking at Bv who i've found to be quite hard to read thus far.

IMO, you've been not a bit more useful then Kad, who while FOSing me still gave his thoughts on other people's points and looked at almost everyone.

I think that's unfair, Kad posted nothing of merit, his play style was that of a VI and he left us with nothing on his death, arguably the one thing a VT should endeavour to do is leave information trails through his interactions for when he dies, aswell as trying to get killed at night, both things he didn't do.

Also you're quite quick to play down the reasons for the Kad lynch there, BB and in all fairness, if your previous posts were like this, you'd have not found yourself at L-1 in day 1. I'm still finding your change of post style to be 'interesting', aswell as other issues with the soft claim / unclaim but i'm not feeling you're as scummy as previously (at least not as outwardly so)

Put your vote on Voided, stand by your case in a visually easy way to see.

[bvoigt]

Toasty.

btw, bv, never got an answer yesterday. Did you have a town read on kad or was there some other reason you were voting BB over kad?

I had a slight town read on kad, and a definite scum read on BB.

@verydark and bvoigt
Any case I made on you would have easily been arguable with "Well you're just mad cause we're voting you."

No, it wouldn't. That's what's known as OMGUS (Oh My God You Suck). And it's one common scumtell that I do not agree with at all. Sometimes people will yell "OMGUS" when they vote someone, and that same person votes them for legitimate reasons. I believe it's done because the people who are yelling can't actually refute the points against them.

BB, that's a decent case, although I personally don't agree with it. However, I still find it scummy that you held off making this case until you realized other people agreed with you. How long, approximately, have you found verydark and myself scummy?

@SRG: When you say Voided, do you mean verydark?

[zMuffinMan]

What changed between the time you unvoted BB after I thought I noticed a PR softclaim and the time you voted him again for deadline reasons? You said you didn't think BB was the best lynch today when you unvoted him. Or was there something he did in between that made you change your mind again?

[BBmolla]

@SRG
I'm thinking this was just a typing error, but the case is made on Verydark not Voided.

I was at L-1 because I was unfamiliar with the playstyle, but now I've gotten used to it. I mean my first posts were about me questioning the playstyle.

The main thing I didn't factor when I first started was the amount of scumhunting. EpicMafia players are terrible at this in general.

The closest build we have to this build is a build called "Lynch Or Be Lynched", which is one of four setups:
Three villagers, 1 Nilla maf and either:
Cop, watcher, hooker
Doc, cop, hooker
Doc, watcher, guiser
2 villagers, guiser

And even in Lynch or Be Lynched, you'll have people claiming roles since d1 in an attempt to out other roles.

In general, I didn't realize how much more this game focuses on little "slips" because I'm used to a game focused more on claiming and lynching between counter claims. No cases are made, only thoughts on people being scummy because of how they've contributed.

[BBmolla]

EBWOP: Also, haven't placed my vote because if I'm the only one who thinks of someone being scum the vote is absolutely pointless. At least at this point in time. Kad was a special case because we had no possible way to read anything off of him, meaning he could flip either way, and because we only had like a day left to lynch someone.

[SomeRandomGuy]

I did mean verydark over voided, indeed.

---------
Also, haven't placed my vote because if I'm the only one who thinks of someone being scum the vote is absolutely pointless.
---------

There're plenty of reasons to put your vote there if they're your biggest scum read - especially when you seem to fully believe your case, if other people don't agree, you can ofc always move your vote it's not like it's one vote per day

[verydark]

For verydark, it's absolutely undeniable that you are using "Tunnel Vision" as I've stated before. You did FoS Kad at one point, but kept your vote on me regardless. Out of your seventeen posts, you mention your suspicions of me being scum in your post 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16. That's literally 13/17 posts where you mention I'm scum. If that's not tunneling, I don't know what is. You have literally ignored every other player, except for Kad who you FoSed at one point like I said, Muffin who you mention is probably my scumbro, and voided who was looking bad because of some bullcrap technicalities. You given me nothing to read off of because all you are is a person pointing his finger at me and nothing more. IMO, you've been not a bit more useful then Kad, who while FOSing me still gave his thoughts on other people's points and looked at almost everyone.

Ok, I'm

over

this tunneling nonsense. I thought the whole point of this game was to discuss

SCUM

and lynch

SCUM

. I have clearly gave my reasoning's for each person I feel is

SCUM

. I have made my assumptions about who is town and who is null, and if it comes to it, I will defend or question them. I cast my votes unapologetically. If there are repercussions for my vote, I will defend them (for instance, if I contributed to a mislynch). If my play style is too aggressive, or abnormal, well, that's fine. I'm brand new to mafia. This is my second game, of which I was lynched on D1 in my first game. There are probably HUNDREDS of "acknowledged" mafia strategies, sorry I loosely adhere to one.

To be a total asshole, I will

QUOTE THE WIKI

It is not always a false assumption, but it

can be blinding to new or better options that come along

, because they do not match the player's "pet theory".

See that part I bolded. I have yet to see any

new

or

better

options. Maybe it's a one in a million chance that the first guy I suspect is scum, stays scummy until I'm either proven wrong or right. I guess time will tell if I have a problem with tunneling.

IMO, you've been not a bit more useful then Kad, who while FOSing me still gave his thoughts on other people's points and looked at almost everyone.

I don't believe I've ignored any questions directed at me, I've frequently posted, and I opened a question up to hear opinions... so it's unfair to say I have contributed the same as Kad. Who had 14 posts until he was lynched, and I had 8 posts (I replaced in midway). And, no, he didn't contribute opinions at all. ISO his posts, NONE of them were over 3 lines, and most of them were one line.

Here's the link to all of Kad's awesomeness, in case anyone has forgot

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

I'm sure he gave you all kinds of valuable information.

*sarcasm*

My goal now is to determine your scum buddy, which requires a TON of reading...and re-reading. I am also gleaning information about who your scum buddy is as the game progresses. This last page alone has gave me significant info on everyone else suspicions to allow me to begin to hone in on someone, and if an argument arises that I can agree with, I will vote to lynch that person.

That said, we have

NINE

days real-time remaining before we have to lynch. I love an efficient game as much as the next guy, but I'm in no hurry for another mislynch.

I will do a follow up post later tonight, and in order to appease you, I will be extra sure to talk to individual players other than you, in an effort to end this "feud" between us.

If for some reason you are taking this personally, don't. I appreciate your frequent contributions and dedication to the game, I wouldn't mind crossing paths here in the future.

[BBmolla]

I'm not taking it personally, it's just frustrating because I'm not scum and there's no apparent way to prove it to you.

[ToastyToast]

I'm not taking it personally, it's just frustrating because I'm not scum and there's no apparent way to prove it to you.

Thats the nature of mafia for you

With regards to the idea of bv and myself as scum together (that was you, right?)
1) There are other players who have distanced themselves from one another (ex: yourself and SRG, you and verydark), so why focus in on the our relationship instead of the relationships other players have with one another

[BBmolla]

You just named two relationships that involve me, why would I guess those as scumteams?

[bvoigt]

What changed between the time you unvoted BB after I thought I noticed a PR softclaim and the time you voted him again for deadline reasons? You said you didn't think BB was the best lynch today when you unvoted him. Or was there something he did in between that made you change your mind again?

Nothing really changed in BB's play, but like you said, the deadline was near, and BB had more support than Toasty, my second suspect. Since I thought the other main lynch candidate was town, the higher chance of lynching scum outweighed the chance of BB being a power role in my opinion.

[ToastyToast]

You just named two relationships that involve me, why would I guess those as scumteams?

muffin-bv would be another example (but another kind; they are distancing in the sense that they spend little to no time talking about one another)

[BBmolla]

You just named two relationships that involve me, why would I guess those as scumteams?

muffin-bv would be another example (but another kind; they are distancing in the sense that they spend little to no time talking about one another)

But if bvoigt were lynched that wouldn't really change the outlook on muffin. But, it would affect you because if he popped up town it would make you look more scummy while if he popped up scum you would look more townish. That's why I wondering about a possible scum team between you two to throw us off.

It was just a thought, don't think much of it. I'm really trying to think of possible scumteams, because none really make too much sense to me right now.

[Voidedmafia]

(not bothering to quote cuz I'm feeling lazy (and I'm tired))

452: See? I told you you could do it. But...what's this about Kad "looking at everyone"? Where is that?

454: Ignoring the brain fart of replacing dark with me, I agree with SRG. Both BB and Kad got ran up for similar reasons, though BB fumbled more (which is why his lynch would've been more informative), and his late D1 upgrade IMO is what saved him from the lynch. You've been able to slide by cuz of that little spat between me and Toasty, but you're gonna have to find that late-D1 BB if you want to avoid the lynch today.

455: Yellling OMGUS isn't always because the points can't be refuted. I've seen someone get voted for legitimate reasons, and that person just vote the person right back without any sort of justification before or at the time of the vote.

I also endorse that question. Reads of any form shouldn't be held back, nor should their explanations if you can make them.

459: As MuffinMan said, comprimise.

460: lolexplosion, one that I think was largely unnecessary.

You also mention that the last 1-2 pages have given you significant amounts of info. Care to share it when it's all nice and organized?

463: Was gonna say "Completely missing the point much?", but I think BB's getting the gist of the question now.


Townpoints for the cases, BB, but it still leaves you as nullscum (just less scum and more null). Toasty is conftown, but town nonetheless (I say conftown because I really think that spat was made to be more than it should've, but that doesn't dampen my townread on him). SRG is obvtown. Muffin is town. Bv is also town The only real close-to-scummy reads I have of the people currently alive are verydark and BB, and dark's more on the nulltown side of things.

Having said that, I'd be down for a BB lynch if he doesn't do anything that says otherwise.

[BBmolla]

Also, if it's going to cause issues, we can lynch me today just to prove my innocence. It'll be a ML, but it'll clear some things up and allow people to get past me as the obvious scumread.

I said this for a reason. Unless the lynch is either verydark, bvoigt, or voided we might as well just lynch me. I'd be totally fine seeing how dumbfounded verydark is when I pop up villager. If I'm going to get lynched, I want it now as opposed to at lylo/mylo.

[bvoigt]

@BB:

How long, approximately, have you found verydark and myself scummy?

@Voided: Conftown as in confirmed? Huh?

[Voidedmafia]

@Voided: Conftown as in confirmed? Huh?

no, confused town. I guess confutown would be a better way to put it.

[BBmolla]

@BB:

How long, approximately, have you found verydark and myself scummy?

VeryDark since the end of d1. You since the start of d2, with a little suspicion d1.

[ToastyToast]

Hah, took me awhile to figure out conftown too.

[zMuffinMan]

ftr, the more I read, the more convinced I am that {BB, verydark, voided} are all town. And POE is leading me to believe the most likely scum team is bv+SRG. Weird, considering I didn't think either of them was scum D1, and certainly wasn't considering that scum team.

Will be doing some reading today and get something out tonight.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Muffin, can i ask you what exactly makes you feel i might be scum and furthermore why i would be so with Bv?