Newbie 1116 -- Game Over

[The Fonz]

VisceraEyes post #890-
"I know my alignment, I do not know theirs."
I think that he's saying that because he obviously knows his alignment but also that he knows who the other scum is. How? BECAUSE HE'S SCUM.

The question is... who's his scumbuddy, Zach or Wordawg?

Anwers on a postcard.

Jesus Christ. I'm this close to wanting to policy lynch you.

He's not saying he's scum. If he were scum, he certainly wouldn't say it. He's saying he's town. Town people don't know anyone's alignment but their own.

[The Fonz]

Evidence of a Workdawg/VisceraEyes connection:

Votecount 1.18

Cobblerfone - 3 - Grimmjow, Workdawg, bigAl
Workdawg - 3 - The Fonz, VisceraEyes, cymru96

Votecount 1.19

L-1 Cobblerfone - 4 - Grimmjow, Workdawg, bigAl, VisceraEyes
Workdawg - 2 - The Fonz, cymru96

Visc jumped off Workdawg to put Cobbler at L-1. That's the crucial vote (the one that he scummily asked permission for) that swings the presumptive lynch, because at 3-3 with Workdawg on Cobbler and Cobbler not on Workdawg, you would expect Cobbler to switch his vote to put Workdawg ahead of himself. At 4-2, there's clear blue water there for the Cobbler lynch. Add in the fact that Tomie suspected both of them, and that makes a pretty good NK target.

[Zachrulez]

Wait wait wait... he was ON that wagon?

After all that shit he just posted decrying the lynch?

[Zachrulez]

I actually missed that he was on that wagon, by the tone of his posts, it would lead you to believe he wasn't even on it.

Him dirtying my hammer looks even worse in light of that.

[Workdawg]

@VE

- If you are referring your "sniping power roles" comment to reason for NKing someone... then obviously that would also make sense... though N1 it would be a total shot in the dark unless someone was dumb enough to reveal their power role. I had no idea of Tomie's role, other than leaning a bit town on him.

@The Fonz

- I have to say, I did find VE's switch from cobbler pretty suspicious too, but for other reasons. Cobbler and I were 2-2 until bigAl and cym joined the wagons, and I think everyone would put a lot more weight on bigAl's vote than cyms. No one really knows what cym is doing, but we know that bigAl has reasons for voting (town or otherwise).

If you go back and look at what actually happened, not just the vote counts, you might see things a little bit differently. Check out post 814. At this point, it's 2 votes for me, 3 votes for Cobbler (right after bigAl votes) Prior to this post, VE hadn't really voiced much, if any, suspicion towards Cobbler. Then, after bigAl joins Cobbler's wagon, VE all the sudden says he's "willing to put Cobbler at L-1 if everyone else is willing." Appealing to Majority to try to deflect blame when he gets on the wagon late (scummy move) so that he can say "we all agreed!" instead of just "I thought he was scummy." Of course, he got berated for that already, but the point stands.

@Zach

- You hammered with a day left to discuss and your reason can be summed up by saying that you were tired of waiting for the day to end. It doesn't matter who was on the wagon. Your hammer doesn't seem to have any town motivation at all.

[The Fonz]

Well, I read it. I was there. There's the clear possibility of a 'Save Workdawg' motive there. Of course, it's also possible he's just opportunistic scum who saw the chance to get rid of town-cobbler and took it.

[Zachrulez]

@Zach

- You hammered with a day left to discuss and your reason can be summed up by saying that you were tired of waiting for the day to end. It doesn't matter who was on the wagon. Your hammer doesn't seem to have any town motivation at all.

Yeah, your logic is indisputable. I rushed a lynch that was almost certainly going to happen anyway, and I did that by what, one day, in a game that had been running over 3 weeks? What a hurry I must be in.

[VisceraEyes]

At any rate, I'm willing to put Cobbler to L-1 if everyone else is willing. Zach can reread the thread during the night phase, and if we have 5 willing voters, there's no reason we can't say piss on that record and see if we can get this game moving again.

Anyone object?

Looks for approval, is willing to end the day before I can give input. Why eager to do this?

Without getting into a huge quote fest or a gigantic wall post, my general impression of Vicera Eyes is a player who's trying to look proactive without actually being particularly pro active. Think about it, can you recall a firm stance he's taken or indeed any stance that he hasn't slunk back from the second a player hits back when he goes after them? I saw a lot of that.

Also if you go to page 8 at post 184 and read from there, that was the ultimate crumble and backpedal. If ever there was a scum melt down, that was it. Down to the bottom of the page, well shit, those actions are going to get me lynched, I better look like I care about lynching scum again!

Vote: Viscera Eyes

Note: I quoted post 675, in paticular because the last line seems to clearly concede that Blue will flip town. (He uses the term "sniff out the enemies of the state" in plural form and in context with Blue being lynched in the past tense.)

@Zach

- You hammered with a day left to discuss and your reason can be summed up by saying that you were tired of waiting for the day to end. It doesn't matter who was on the wagon. Your hammer doesn't seem to have any town motivation at all.

Yeah, your logic is indisputable.

I rushed a lynch that was almost certainly going to happen anyway

, and I did that by what, one day, in a game that had been running over 3 weeks?

What a hurry I must be in.

Your logic applies directly to one of your suspicions of me.

See the bold and italicized bits.

You said I was looking to end the day before you got your say in. While it's true that I was WILLING to end the day before you got your say in (please refer to the posts of your predecessor for any reason why your player-slot might have been...tainted), I was certainly in no HURRY to do so...as made evident by the THIRTY SIX pages of this game in DAY ONE. Look at the post numbers bra, that's mostly my doing. I've been in no HURRY to do ANYTHING...except to hear a response to my case against Grimmjow...which, incidentally, is the OTHER major grievance you have against me.

Yes, I was on the Cobbler wagon at the end. But I was never attempting to HIDE this fact, nor was I 'decrying' that wagon. I agreed that he looked scummy at the end of the day and at the end of the day I'm just as much to blame for his death as anyone else on his wagon. But don't misrepresent me, not now that you've shown such a willingness to be fair and honest.

[Zachrulez]

Oooooooooo, my player slot might have been tainted.

Way to have it both ways.

Which is it? Does blue's play make me scum or town?

[Zachrulez]

Oh, and where's this misrep you're accusing me of?

[Grimmjow]

*sigh*

What. In. The. Hell. I could have sworn that Cobbler was scum.

Well, after Tomie's loss, we def have to step up our game. I'm going back and checking through a suspicion of mine. If it pans out, I'll let everyone know. But let's just say that some of the experienced players are not looking too well.

Also, VE, I'm going to go back through your ISO as well. I had a sinking feeling from you right there at the end of D1.

[Zachrulez]

Oh I see, I missed that you alluded to your vote in that post.

Can you guess why I missed it? Cause the rest of your post doesn't sound like someone who ever really thought Cobbler was scum.

[Zachrulez]

^In your first post of the day.

[Grimmjow]

Oh I see, I missed that you alluded to your vote in that post.

Can you guess why I missed it? Cause the rest of your post doesn't sound like someone who ever really thought Cobbler was scum.

Are you kidding me? After the wall-o-text case I typed up on Cobbler, and the multiple times after that I voiced my suspicions and WHY he was suspicious to me, and I started the friggin wagon, I

obviously

didn't think he was actually scum. I think you're grasping at straws, sir. You pop in at the end of D1 with a vote and "case" on VE, then randomly hammer Cobbler, and now, at the start of D2, you vote VE again and throw suspicion on me as well. This doesn't add up.

[Zachrulez]

I wasn't replying to you Grimm.

That was to VE.

[Zachrulez]

You kinda snuck in there while I was addressing him.

[Grimmjow]

Oh, my apologies. I thought you were addressing me, as I had just posted and and you mentioned that it was the first post that he/I had posted today. My bad.

[Zachrulez]

You're still town.

Moreso after that reaction.

[bigAl]

Bah, sorry for my absence so far - I was half way through a post last night when internet died. Trying to remember what I wrote.

@VE - If you are referring your "sniping power roles" comment to reason for NKing someone... then obviously that would also make sense... though N1 it would be a total shot in the dark unless someone was dumb enough to reveal their power role. I had no idea of Tomie's role, other than leaning a bit town on him.

Tomie's role may have been a shot in the dark for the scum, but they can use the process of elimination to decide who they think

is

vanilla townie (*aham* blue) and then kill someone else.

I think Zach's hammer vote was okay - the game had been stagnating for days at that point.

Also, I wrote up a bunch of stuff about Lynch-or-lose, thinking we were down to 5 people. Now I realize that newbie games are played with 9 (instead of 7 people when I started on this site) so we have one more day leeway.

I'm worried about Fonz - not cause he looks scummy (far from it today) - but because I think he has the skills to avoid our suspicions. Mostly town vibes today from him though, as well as Zach.

The question is... who's his scumbuddy, Zach or Wordawg?

Why just those two, and not, say, me? Or Fonz? Just cause VE mentioned them?

[Nobody Special]

VisceraEyes - 2 - cymru96, Zachrulez

Not Voting: VisceraEyes, Grimmjow, Workdawg, The Fonz, bigAl

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline: July 29 (expired on 2011-07-29 14:00:00)

V/LA: Zachrulez, July 10 through July 17

[cymru96]

ok let's take this from another angle...
When it was wordawg vs cobbler it was 3-3 untill Viscera swithed, making it 4-2.
It looks likely that viscera and his scumbuddy were on the cobbler wagon.
Here are the peeps that were on it.
1.Grimm, unlikely.
2.Wordawg, very likely.
3. BigAl, I had suspicions but you asking why I don't suspect you seems townie to me.

So I think it's wordawg and viscera.

[Grimmjow]

So you are saying you think VE was bussing his scumbuddy late into the day yesterday before he jumped on the Cobbler wagon? I'm not buying it.

[cymru96]

I supose they could have been playing a risky game but in which case if they are not both scum, which one of them do you think is scum, if either?

[VisceraEyes]

First of all, I'm not scum, and that much should be painfully obvious...I've been trying to help town from the very beginning.

cymru, you have provided NO credible evidence that I'm even suspicious other than the fact that I voted for Cobbler. And you'll note that I was far more suspicious of Workdawg anyway. Perhaps bring something real to the table instead of baseless speculation and maybe you'll get some support.

VOTE: Workdawg

Because he was one of Tomie's main suspects, along with me (whose alignment I'm sure of already) and cymru96, whom I have no suspicion of...he's pretty obviously just noobTown. Also he was among the first to push a Cobbler wagon to begin with.

[cymru96]

ok ok ok... I can see that you did suspect Wordawg a lot but WHY did you switch votes from Word to Cobbler then?