Mini 1179: Paranoia Mafia

[Zodiark13]

Sorry, been having issues getting online in the last few days. Expect a votecount tomorrow.

[CooLDoG]

Link to a game where you have used only meta to find scum, or prove that someone was in fact town. Meta alone.

In cold war mafia I correctly figured out furc was town via meta, highlighted in post 361.

Okay lets look at that meta case then:

Please describe his town and scum metas (as you see them) and why you feel this game is the town and not scum. Bonus points for links to games you feel particularly back up your opinion.

If I could describe the the difference between his scum and town play in one word it would be "proactive".
As town he seems to be more active, seems to more actively participate in scum hunting and questioning, has larger posts and generally seems to be more involved in the game. He also is more likely to claim that someone is town in his eyes.

As scum his posts are shorter, he seems to throw out a lot more one liners that don't really push things forward but rather comment mildly on what is going on, he generally goes after softer targets, like inactives, or pursues weak cases that he doesn't bother explaining all that well. He also is more likely to claim someone is scum in his eyes.

All of those aren't really meta. They are common scum tells. Not being proactive is a major scum. Being active and pushing your reads is one of the best town tells I have found over my short mafia career. And above all else, defnedong someone with just meta does not excuse scummy play. If he plays scummy he is in fact scummy. Regardless of other games. That's my opinion. My vote stays on vezok, glass is also an A+ lynch.

@LC, read my case and vote for vezo or glass.

[Umbrage]

Admittedly, I haven't played with vezok where he's been scum, but ThAdmiral's scum meta on him sounds a hell of a lot like what his town meta has been from my experience with him.

[ThAdmiral]

@ cooldog: fair points, I think you should check out a few other vezo games though. This sort of is really just par for the course for him, which is admittedly frustrating but not an indication of scumminess.

In fact I am even happier with my vote on you now as I believe vezo could easily be seen as a soft target for a scum on the ropes.

[CooLDoG]

So you are defending a scummy player with meta, while voting for someone who is voting for (who you admit to be) a scummy player. Sounds like textbook pro-town behavior. Good job, keep it up.

[ThAdmiral]

Thanks bro

[Umbrage]

NO MORE LURKING.

START POSTING PEOPLE.

[CooLDoG]

NO MORE LURKING.

START POSTING PEOPLE.

Agree,

mod: get some prods out plz

[LobsterCatapult]

agreed.

vote:vezok

i played a game with vezok where he included a lot more reads with his votes. he has included little to none this game.

[nopointinactingup]

naw guys, scum vezo talks way more than this ( I've played in a 2 games with vezo as scum so trust me )
Scumdog's just trying to mislead ppl

[Umbrage]

VOTE: nopointinactingup

Either he or Surye or both have to be scum. POE. I'm getting town vibes from everyone else. They've gotten a free ride in this game so far, and it's time to finish that.

[vezokpiraka]

I don't think nopoint is scum .

Cdog looks worse than before

unvote
vote Cdog

[CooLDoG]

I don't think nopoint is scum .

Cdog looks worse than before

unvote
vote Cdog

Wow. This post just blows my mind. Just wow. Not even attempting to defend. Not even trying to explain his reasons. Not even hiding his blatant omgus. This has to be the best post of all time.

@every one who is defending vezok, Can you think of any reason except for meta that this guy shouldn't be lynched? I mean if we are going to go out on a limb and defend this guy at least have a half-assed reason. And above that, if vezok is playing scummy why shouldn't we lynch him? Do you really think he has contributed to the town? Do you really think he will contribute anything to the game? The answer to that is no.

[Umbrage]

I don't really see any reason to lynch vezok over Surye.

[CooLDoG]

^surye hasn't thrown his vote around on numerous wagons. Surye hasn't omgused. But, the again, surye has posted much at all. In my opinion vezok is the more scummy. However, surye has lurked more...

[Umbrage]

@ Everyone on vezokpiraka: Your arguments against vezok are things vezok always does. Sure, you can make the argument that that isn't an excuse, I'm with you on that. But it's still not a substitute for scumhunting.

Basically, you have a bunch of nulltells. Now, assuming every other player is null for you, then sure, lynch vezok because he's not valuable to the town and is next to impossible to read as scum anyway. I don't have a problem with that line of reasoning. What I don't like is how you're pushing vezok while ignoring everyone else. Why are you pushing a case full of nulltells? Is there nobody else in the game that you have suspicion on?

Today, more than anything, we need content. A lot of it. And that means scumhunting. Arguing back and forth. Vezok isn't going to contribute to that no matter how much you push him. Sure, he could flip scum, but he could also flip town, and either way we'd be right back where we started today. He's an easy cop-out lynch, and pushing for it is scummy as hell.

Again, I'm not opposed to a vezok lynch today. I'm opposed to his lynch being our first choice.

[vezokpiraka]

I reckon we could have used her as a vig. Just sayin'

I was suspicious of cooldog for trying to get her to "test" lld's post restrictions but it really sounded like he wanted her to get mod-killed. Fair enough, she was scum, and fair enough she was lying but that stood out when I read it.
Glass because he seemed to be sitting back and generally getting on bandwagons.

I mentioned surye as well because of how he tried to do a test regarding my sanity levels by mentioning my name a bunch of times, but I now feel that was more likely genuine town curiousity as it could have given me some kind of pr and I doubt scum would be wanting to do that.

I haz new read.

Thad doesn't say anything much before this post.

For me it sounds like he wanted the free NK for his scum team. Reading the posts before he seems eager not to lynch LLD. I think that is because only 2 people are scum.

Then he lists three people. Never says if he thinks they are scummy or not. He is fencesitting like hell there.

I think it's a case of fos buddy vote townie. In this case Cdog being the townie and glass the buddy. Maybe Surye but I'm not sure.

[CooLDoG]

@umbridge, My number two choce is glass. No body wants to lynch glass "because he not scummy....". Then I move onto my next read "Vezok's meta is nullifies your perfectly legitimate arguments. Don't lynch my buddy". So if the vezok wagon fizzles out I would be more then willing to vote for surye, or TA. Ta is bring in a bunch of meta bullshit to get vezo off the hook.

@umbridge, Lets be honest, you aren't supporting the vezo lynch. Which lynches can you support?
@ta, same.
@vezo, you think he's scummy then vote him. Why are you just posting that? You aparently think I'm more scummy. Tell me why I'm scummy. No "He doesn't know my meta" bullshit, kthx.

[CooLDoG]

I think it's a case of fos buddy vote townie. In this case Cdog being the townie and glass the buddy. Maybe Surye but I'm not sure.

I missed this. If you think I am the "townie" why are you still voting me?

[vezokpiraka]

I think it's a case of fos buddy vote townie. In this case Cdog being the townie and glass the buddy. Maybe Surye but I'm not sure.

I missed this. If you think I am the "townie" why are you still voting me?

Because I put my votes at the end of post when I post a lot.

I've been out of town and out of internet for the last 6 days and I forgot to type the vote.

unvote
vote Thad

[LobsterCatapult]

I don't really see any reason to lynch vezok over Surye.

unvote

ehh.....ur probably right about this right now. vezoks new post makes me think that he could be town. i played a game with vezok before and he seemed to be active and revealed more reason or motivation towards his stances, but with this game dragging, and him not having internet, this explains it somewhat.

surye is certainly a better lynch, but he needs to get prodded.

@mod, prod request surye plz?

nopoint's obvious contradiction is worth a vote, but he needs to get on here and explain as soon as possible. VOTE: nopointinactingup

his vote on nopoint d1 is scummy, and he hasnt really done anything today

Catching up in all my games. When I messed up a post restriction, the mod deleted it, occasionally with a message. LLD's new found "not giving a shit" seems like floundering. I sheep the comment on seemingly know occult was a mislynch, and trying to incriminate IS over it. I think IS has been nothing but town this game.

Glass, sorry if I've been ignoring your questions, they are good ones.
Reads as Requested:
Cooldog: Town read, very vocal, responsive, clear with his reads.
Umbrage: Same, for the same honestly.

nopoint is looking much more town, and I'm buying the argument about the hammer at this point.

Scummiest read, LLD. I said I thought she was town when I believed her restriction. I believe an inhibiting restriction like that is less likely for scum, as it makes it hard to fight a wagon. However a fake restriction? Hang her.

UNVOTE: VOTE: LLD

his post before this vote, albeit days before this one, has LLD being town. and says nopoint should hang, but he never said why nopoint looks like he is considerably more town.

this vote puts LLD at L-1. and even though LLD was scum, LLD was certainly not in the mafia. this vote here looks like scum voting for the sk, trying to latch onto a wagon, and with the lack of activity, i believe him to be coasting scum. his post today basically says nothing.

vezok has a point that thad was fencesitting in that post, i also think that his post in 478 is suspicious, with defending vezok, saying that cooldog has fairpoints, but then says that he likes his vote on him even more. this confuses me.

however, looking back on it, i agree with the point, vezok could be just playing the way town vezok plays and makes himself an easy target. umbrage has a point, however vezok in my opinion doesn't get a free ride.

@umbrage, why nopoint? and what really caused you to 180 on glass? what reactions of his do you think are town?

oh...btw

vote:surye

[Zodiark13]

Surye and Glass have been prodded. VC here in a bit.

[Umbrage]

Which lynches can you support?

I seriously need to reread this game. A lot of the players are blurring together in my mind. I'll have a clearer view of things once I buckle down and get to work.

[CooLDoG]

Which lynches can you support?

I seriously need to reread this game. A lot of the players are blurring together in my mind. I'll have a clearer view of things once I buckle down and get to work.

Translation: I fine with lynching anybody, but not those two because they are my scum buds. Don't lynch anybody until I make sure that they aren't thaaaat town so I don't look bad.

Also, are you saying that at this point in time you have absolutely no scum reads? Lot of help you are for the town.

Sick and tired of umbridges non-committal I don't want to lynch specific people attitude. I know I said I would be willing to lynch surey (in fact I still am), but Umbridge's recent play is pathetic.

unvote, vote: umbridge

Come up with those reads...

[Glass]

YES MORE UMBRAGE VOTES

He was pushing the hell out of me for being scum with his bs arguments and as soon as I call him out on them he completely ignores it and instead gets off me, probably hoping that I would wonder back onto cooldog after he got off of me. Not a chance in hell I am letting him off the hook that easily. I AM STILL WAITING ON WHAT THIS LIE WAS, IDC IF YOU THINK I AM TOWN, I WANT A RESPONSE.