Newbie 1116 -- Game Over

[Zachrulez]

ok ok ok... I can see that you did suspect Wordawg a lot but WHY did you switch votes from Word to Cobbler then?

Well see it works out a lot better this way for him.

[Zachrulez]

I mean really, Workdawg was very much in play as a possible lynch when he switched his vote on day 1.

[bigAl]

There's a lot of things that you find very obvious, VE. It may be obvious to YOU what your alignment is, but definitely not to the rest of us. Especially not obvious to me what cy's alignment is.

[Workdawg]

First of all, I'm not scum, and that much should be painfully obvious...I've been trying to help town from the very beginning.

cymru, you have provided NO credible evidence that I'm even suspicious other than the fact that I voted for Cobbler. And you'll note that I was far more suspicious of Workdawg anyway. Perhaps bring something real to the table instead of baseless speculation and maybe you'll get some support.

VOTE: Workdawg

Because he was one of Tomie's main suspects, along with me (whose alignment I'm sure of already) and cymru96, whom I have no suspicion of...he's pretty obviously just noobTown. Also he was among the first to push a Cobbler wagon to begin with.

First, you claim town and passively call us idiots for not believing you.

Then your reason for voting for me is that Tomie was suspicious of me and that I was on cobbler's wagon? Come on now. Just because Tomie flipped town doesn't mean he actually had the correct reads. As for the cobbler wagon, you're vote to put him at L-1 was MUCH more suspicious.

[Zachrulez]

Not sure if my V/LA was seen, but I'll post this as a prod dodge just in case.

Looks like we need to hear more from everyone else anyway.

[The Fonz]

Vote: BigAl

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 2.02

VisceraEyes - 2 - cymru96, Zachrulez
bigAl - 1 - The Fonz
Workdawg - 1 - VisceraEyes

Not Voting: Grimmjow, Workdawg, bigAl

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline: July 29 (expired on 2011-07-29 14:00:00)

V/LA: Zachrulez through July 17

I made it bigger, JUST IN CASE.

[cymru96]

care to expand on your vote Mr. Fonz?

[The Fonz]

A question, Mr. Vile fan, do you think I am incapable of expanding on my vote?

[VisceraEyes]

@Fonz
I'm also interested to hear your reasons...you haven't really posted much in the way of suspicion of bigAl, why the sudden change of heart? bigAl has seemed pretty Town to me in the long view.

What it looks to me is more like a pressure vote since he hasn't really given much in the way of opinions today. Mostly just blah stuff. I could be misinterpreting though...

@bigAl
I'm not gonna vote for you, but I WILL ask you directly: what are your thoughts on Workdawg and myself, the two present lynch candidates (aside from yourself now, who has a vote too.)

[bigAl]

you [Fonz] haven't really posted much in the way of suspicion of bigAl

I've been up there for a while on Fonz's radar (as far back as #628, #712, #778 etc.). It makes sense considering that Cobblerfone is gone and Workdawg already had a bunch of suspicion on him.

As far as Workdawg and VE...

The early game VE looked incredibly town to me. Lately VE has getting my suspicions up, but not high enough to overcome my early game feeling (yet). In #923, for example, you say you have no suspicions of cy, but also accuse him of having baseless accusations in the same breath.

Workdawg - I disagreed earlier with a lot of the accusations against him, and nothing in his three posts on D2 has changed my mind on that lately. Still give him a 75% town. He's asking good questions.

Top suspicions (mostly through process of elimination), in no particular order: cy, Grimmjow, Fonz.

[Workdawg]

Sorry about my lack of content today so far, I've been pretty busy lately.

Anyway... I just reread the end of D1 and the start of D2 and here are some of my thoughts.

Cymru

Cymru seems pretty suspicious to me. We all know that for A LONG time he provided almost no original content. That's easy to chalk up to being a newbie. I think some of his actions closer to the end of the day seem more scum motivated though.

For the first half (or so) of the game, he managed to avoid taking ANY stances on anyone besides MissJJ/The Fonz... and even then, his stance on JJ was GIANT OMGUS and pretty ridiculous. After that, he brings almost NO original thoughts to the table. When he does comment on someone's scumminess, it's either agreeing with something someone else said, or repeating the thoughts of someone else (pretty much the same thing, but hey).

He ends up flipping back and forth a little bit near the end, sort of. As I said, he never really takes a stance. He comments that cobbler and I were the top two wagons, and speculates that were are both probably not scum, but then he asks which of us is the scum (takes no stance). When I prod him about this, he says he thinks it's me because of "long posts with no content", something that someone brought up long ago and was decidedly not the case anymore. Then he votes for me.

The very next day, once VE has abandoned my wagon for cobbler's, cym starts talking about hammering cobbler. In fact, he posts FIVE times about hammering, but keeps making excuses why he won't. I should say that there was still 2 days left at this point, so I don't think a hammer at that point would have been a good idea, but it sounds to me like he's trying to get on the wagon, without getting on the wagon. Continuing the streak of not really taking a stance. He wants to seem like he agrees with everyone else, but doesn't want to actually be associated with the lynch.

On D2, he immediately jumps out with "workdawg or VE" for lynch today, again with NO reasoning behind it. He votes VE for no given reason (and he's never mentioned suspicion of VE before). After getting prodded into action by The Fonz, cym digs up a couple scraps. He quotes post 890 and makes some weak comment about a comment VE made about "knowing alignment". He makes no sense. The next thing he mentions is the fact that VE switched wagons at the end, something that TheFonz already pointed out was a big deal.

I just don't know about him. All the prodding we've done to try and get him to make a contributing and it still seems to go to waste.

I have a few more thoughts, but work is catching up with me for now.

[cymru96]

Valid points but seriously... Fonz... I don't think you are incapable of expanding your vote I just want to know why you havent stated your reason.

Very suspicious.

Vote: The Fonz

There, I'm taking a stance AND not voting OMGUS!

[Nobody Special]

Grimmjow has been prodded.

[Grimmjow]

Oop, def didn't realize it had been 3 days. Sorry guys. I've been busy with this new job. I haven't posted anything since my last post because up until yesterday evening (for me) I didn't really see anything of any content except a bunch of bouncing around a bunch of nothing and fluff. I'll try to get back into the game tonight.

[VisceraEyes]

-.- Grimmjow you disappoint me.

J/K, I hope the new job is going swimmingly.

On a game-related note, I noticed something odd. Did you guys realize that Tomie signed only two of her posts with her name, and each time she did she

bolded

the m in her name? WTF is that? I mean, I can't even IMAGINE a scenario where the town doctor would try and breadcrumb their role, so it can't really be that...but seriously, did anyone else notice that?

[bigAl]

I assumed that was because (s?)he was pointing out that it's one m, not Tommie as blue tended to write. For that matter, how do you get doc from an m?

cy might be taking a stance, but I don't like his reasoning. Fonz has his reasons and I'm sure we'll hear about them soon enough.

[VisceraEyes]

I didn't get doc from an m...that's my point. I didn't know what it was...just found it interesting.

[cymru96]

I agree that Fonz has reasons I just want to hear then. Think of it as me poking him with a stick for info!

[The Fonz]

Valid points but seriously... Fonz... I don't think you are incapable of expanding your vote I just want to know why you havent stated your reason.

Very suspicious.

Vote: The Fonz

You state you 'just want to know' why I didn't explain, and then vote me before I had the chance to explain? My point of asking you if you thought I didn't have reasons was that, since it could reasonably be assumed I had them, the obvious explanation for withholding them was I was trying to do something particular by withholding them. The point of which would have been completely defeated by me explaining immediately just because you asked me to, so why ask?

It's simple. I thought I'd get more interesting and useful responses by not explaining it until after everyone had reacted to the vote in isolation.

Basically, whilst VisceraEyes and Workdawg are both scummy, I don't get the feeling they're partners. Look at VE's vote for Workdawg. It's pretty scummy, because it seems like an attempt to save Viscera's own ass by jumping the most popular suspect. He will argue that he suspected Workdawg yesterday, perhaps even more then Cobbler (though why he thinks that makes his involvement with that wagon less suspicious, idk). But the important thing about this is that the way VE promotes WD as the alternative to him doesn't look like a bus to me.

The thing that kept me from voting Al yesterday was that, although he didn't seem to be doing anything that was particularly difficult for scum to fake, his suspicions did basically align with mine. Well, of those suspicions, he chose to wagon the town one over the one of unknown alignment, and today he seems to have dropped workdawg suspicion pretty much entirely for reasons I can't entirely fathom, and quietly returned to pushing the horrendously newbish Cymru along with Grimmjow. His posts as a whole kind of give me the feel that he's just filling up space and not working particularly hard on catching scum. What arguments he does make (Cymru for being illogical) don't seem like real scumhunting (being bad at logic is not scummy).

So what all that says to me is that Al is the most likely partner for

either

Workdawg or Viscera. Also, I kind of get a 'Knows VE is town' vibe from the whole 'You may know you're town' thing. At the same time, that rings slightly townish on VE for me... people who get frustrated that the town can't see that they're obvtown (in their own eyes) are usually town. It's not something the scum have the chutzpah to fake. I can recall a few times when I thought it painfully obvious I was town, and was frustrated and thrown off my game by the fact that other players didn't seem to see it.

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 2.03

bigAl - 1 - The Fonz
The Fonz - 1 - cymru96
VisceraEyes - 1 - Zachrulez
Workdawg - 1 - VisceraEyes

Not Voting: Grimmjow, Workdawg, bigAl

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline: July 29 (expired on 2011-07-29 14:00:00)

V/LA: Zachrulez through July 17

[cymru96]

care to expand on your vote Mr. Fonz?

A question, Mr. Vile fan, do you think I am incapable of expanding on my vote?

You state you 'just want to know' why I didn't explain, and then vote me before I had the chance to explain?

I asked you to explain, which you didn't and then you say that I voted without letting you give reason. You refused to give reason... Suspicious Much?
(Also the reason you gave sucks.)

[Workdawg]

@The Fonz

- You didn't vote for bigAl yesterday because his suspicions aligned with yours? Back in post 628, you said I "concerned" you because I voted for VE, who you felt was obvtown. I'm a bit concerned that your voting seems to be based on who agrees (or doesn't agree) with you.

Also, the below quote rubs me the wrong way.

The thing that kept me from voting Al yesterday was that, although he didn't seem to be doing anything that was particularly difficult for scum to fake, his suspicions did basically align with mine. Well, of those suspicions,

he chose to wagon the town one over the one of unknown alignment

, and today he seems to have dropped workdawg suspicion pretty much entirely for reasons I can't entirely fathom, and quietly returned to pushing the horrendously newbish Cymru along with Grimmjow.

It seems a bit, devious (for lack of a better term, I guess) to imply that bigAl knew his choice of wagons would be on "the town one." At the time, no one (except scum, of course) knew the alignment of either. Subtly implying that bigAl is scum, are we?

At the end of the above quote, you also attack bigAl for "dropping" his suspicion of me. I have to say, I find your vote suspicious for the same reason. At the end of the day, you had cobbler and I at "a virtual tie", and yet now you are going after bigAl? Tomie was suspicious of me, and he got NKed. I would think that would have focused a bit more attention on me, but I'm sliding out for bigAl to take my place?

I think I'm going to have to take a closer look at your ISO. I got mostly town reads from you before, but there seems to be some deviousness coming out now...

[bigAl]

It seems a bit, devious (for lack of a better term, I guess) to imply that bigAl knew his choice of wagons would be on "the town one." At the time, no one (except scum, of course) knew the alignment of either. Subtly implying that bigAl is scum, are we?

I wouldn't call it subtle... I would say that by his argument and vote, he is saying that he thinks it's likely I'm scum, not implying anything.

About how I "seem to have dropped workdawg suspicion pretty much entirely" - it was never fully there. I had some minor points in #722, but after a thorough read by #787, I said that he was looking more townish to me.

Scum generally aren't suspicious of their partners, so if you agree with someone else's suspicions, that can mean that they are more likely to be the same alignment as you.

[Grimmjow]

Ok, so, I keep getting the feeling that at least one of our scummers are part of the SE scene.

As a semi-related side note... people who are throwing out "town points"... I'm not sure I like that so much. You are essentially giving scum feedback about what kinds of things YOU consider to be town. If I were scum, I would make note of what people are doing to earn "town points" and try to mimic those things.

I feel like this is the towniest thing that anyone has said in the game. As I stated on D1, I don't really feel a scum vibe coming from Workdawg (I really need to figure out a way to abbreviate your name to my liking...), and this statement really doesn't seem like something scum would say. Especially, as he noted, scum would

want

to know these "town points" so that they can mimic them.

VE I'm torn between town and scum with him. I will say this, though. There's only so many times one can get "frustrated" and throw their hands up and bitch and complain before I start thinking "Is this all an act?" Just as Al said yesterday, it may be obvious to Blue what his alignment may be but it's not necessarily obvious to others, VE should take note of this as well. Also, his comment on the same topic:

First of all, I'm not scum, and that much should be painfully obvious...

I've been trying to help town from the very beginning.

This reads scummy to me. Yes, town needs to help town, but IMO it's more important for town to help themselves than to help each other. Since town does not know who is town, especially not this early in the game, I don't think "helping town" is a good idea, as it might give scum ideas on how to cover their tracks. I think it's more important to lay out your own suspicions and thoughts and see how others react to it. This will give you far more information that trying to show others the way (leading the town), blindly following someone else (bandwagoning in order to stay hidden), and giving helpful little tips as to how to play the game (active lurking). Now, VE, before you get all up in arms, I'm not suggesting that you have done these things. I'm simply putting out there how I feel and how I play.

Cy I'm concerned about. He seems to be popping in at opportune times. On D1, Cy was incredibly concerned about appearing scummy, followed by the infamous "I'm scum" slip/mistype. He even at one point, in reference to bigAl, said:

I don't think he's scum but I'm not gonna unvote cause I havent seen anyone who looks scummy and leaving my vote blank after previously voting looks suspicious.

If you don't find him scummy, then why leave your vote where it is? I understand you said that it would look suspicious, but do you not understand how suspicions work? If you don't find him scummy, you unvote. If you don't unvote, it looks even more suspicious. Especially after blatantly stating that you don't find the person you're voting for scummy. He states through the entire D1 that he thinks JJ is scum because she didn't believe that his "slip" wasn't a typo. However, I even stated that I didn't think it was a typo and he didn't say a word about me. I even called him out for it, and he didn't say anything. Worse than that, he kept saying that he thought she was scum because she didn't believe it was a typo, and even after I and bigAl showed clearly that JJ had said that she thought it very well could have been a typo, he presses the issue, and then flips around saying some asinine comment about JJ having to say it was a typo because she was covering her ass, which I frankly do not buy at all. Either this is just an incredibly new player, or he's having to cover his tracks and is doing it the best way he can--making stuff up that no one can actually verify. I'm not going to give Cy my sympathies anymore. He seems very capable of putting together some semblance of a reasonable argument (see 688, 920, and 946). I'm also VERY troubled by the fact that he skirted around the hammer vote on Cobbler, stating even that it would be suspicious, even after having been told by Al that it isn't as suspicious as the two leading up to it.

All and all, Cy is playing a very... odd game. Either he's really just a newbie and ZERO clue what he's doing (which I'm not inclined to believe, due to his ability to formulate decent posts) or he trying really hard to play up the newbie card and cover his tracks. So:

VOTE: Cymru96

I'll finish up my analysis later. Time to eat