Newbie Game 1106: Death with a 2x4 (limps to finish line)

[Princess Kiwi]

In memory of Z, may he rest in immortal mafia peace, *facepalms*

Yes, that quote was meant to be read as:

"I believe Poiven to be

scum

for these reasons, from least compelling to most compelling..."

Sorry for mixing them up, dunno how that happened o.-

And thanks for the compliment Korlash

[Poiven]

I'll post soon. Do not quick hammer. I have some things to say before I die.

I'm assuming at this point I'm going to get lynched, but I have to get a couple things out before I am for Day 3.

[Otolia]

Though I don't find you very convincing, you've done a lot of typing so thanks for the input. On a side note, I find it extremely bad mannered not to put the original name when you quote ; when the game is long you don't have the time to check every quote. But it doesn't makes your work looks bad.

However there is a problem in your logic : what if both Poiven and me are town ? What if Poiven is just a normal townie who is tunneling ? You could consider it framing but it's a risky tactics. You have to have courage to pull off such a tactic as scum. I don't know if Poiven has enough experience to pull it off. Plus both your arguments against me are not that compelling, and I believe there is an easier target (Ant) so I am not convinced.

In the mean time, Megatron has requested a replacement. I won't change my vote until then. A quickhammer is unlikely to happen now, so don't worry Poiven.

[Mr. Flay]

Will look for a replacement for Megatron. Ant has been prodded, again. You guys have got to start posting more...

Third Vote Count of Day Three:

Poiven - 3 (Korlash, Ant, Princess Kiwi)
Otolia - 1 (Poiven)
Ant - 1 (Otolia)

Not Voting - Megatron

With six alive, four votes will be needed to lynch. Day Three will end no later than Sunday, July 17th.

[Poiven]

I believe there is an easier target (Ant) so I am not convinced.

How about Princess Kiwi yesterday when Z came out with his jailing thing? Honestly, I could have quietly slipped onto that and been all "Z IS OUR HERO AND FOUND THE SCUM" and then just rode that out, but I didn't, because I didn't think she was scum.

Korlash, you tell me not to give up the case on Otolia, then you accuse me of tunneling for it.

You say I jumped off of the Ant wagon because it was dying (which it wasn't, Anka was the only one off, sorry for the mixed-up facts; I had forgotten Anka was off of it and thought it was still L-1 when I unvoted, one of the reasons I unvoted so quickly). When you find out that isn't true, you say I was bussing.

It just seems to me like you're taking a lot of things and twisting them to make me seem scummier than I am, and the entire town is following you. I don't know if that makes you scum or not, but I don't like the trend; whether it is being used against me or being used against anyone else.

I'm okay with being lynched at this point. Hear me out, though. Scum is within Otolia or Korlash. Yeah, yeah, OMGUS, but I really don't care at this point whether I die or not so that's not a factor. I "tunneled" Otolia because he was the only one who really seemed scummy to me. But Korlash's run against me has read as pretty scummy to me. In fact, many of the things in this game he has done have been done with finesse and very much like experienced scum. Once I get lynched, do me the honor of taking one of the two (or both) out tomorrow, okay?

[Princess Kiwi]

Otolia: I don't know how to quote names on quotes would you -anyone- please tell me how?

And Poiven...you just made me want to do an ISO. Because I can see where you're coming from, and there's a few things I want to look into before anyone has the chance to hammer. Therefore, I'm going to

Unvote: Poiven

before anyone

does

hammer. And expect an ISO as well, because I am -not- re-reading the thread again today.

[Korlash]

Otolia: I don't know how to quote names on quotes would you -anyone- please tell me how?

{quote="name"} blah blah blah {/quote} where "{}" = "[]" gives you:

blah blah blah

How about Princess Kiwi yesterday when Z came out with his jailing thing? Honestly, I could have quietly slipped onto that and been all "Z IS OUR HERO AND FOUND THE SCUM" and then just rode that out, but I didn't, because I didn't think she was scum.

And I could have easily rode Z's wagon day one instead of jumping off of it like I did. We all have instances where we 'could have' done something else but ultimately it means very little. This isn't a retrospective game, you can't look into the past and say that things could have gone differently just because of the way they played out.

Take for example this one you brought up. You could not have quietly slipped onto it. For starters, you came out before Z claimed fully gunning for Oto. You may have been able to make the switch to Kiwi but you certainly couldn't have done it quietly. Add to it that she went from what, zero votes to like three in the blink of an eye and it would have definitely been a risk to join up then. And of course lets not forget that you used the kiwi thing to further push Oto, so in theory you used it to push a lynch anyway. In reality, joining the wagon would have been riskier then using it to push another because you would have had to go from vote one to like vote three on the wagon thereby exposing yourself. This is why saying things like "i could have done this as scum" usually don't work...

Korlash, you tell me not to give up the case on Otolia, then you accuse me of tunneling for it.

Well answer me this, do you think you have been tunneling Oto? looking back, haven't you pretty much been singly focused on him for two whole days? Short of a brief period where you said you would be willing to vote Jake, not why he was scummy but simply that you were willing to hammer him, and this now instance of calling me potential scum it's been all Oto all the time. two whole days focused on one person with only two tiny snippets of even suggesting others might be scum? yeah, I think you might be somewhat tunnel struck.

And yes, it is a bit of a mind screw to tell you not to drop a case but not to tunnel. It's something you'll learn over time. But there is a huge difference between not abandoning a case and completely tunneling on it.

You say I jumped off of the Ant wagon because it was dying (which it wasn't, Anka was the only one off, sorry for the mixed-up facts; I had forgotten Anka was off of it and thought it was still L-1 when I unvoted, one of the reasons I unvoted so quickly). When you find out that isn't true, you say I was bussing.

First off, Anka's unvote was the sign that Ant's wagon was going to fall apart. secondly, in the very same post that I mentioned the wagon falling apart, I mentioned you throwing Anak under the bus, aka bussing. They are not two separate things and I have never yet changed my story as you seem to be implying. Thirdly, this is yet another time you choose to ignore my most burning question to you about this issue. WHY DID YOU VOTE ANKA? You thought Ant was at L-1 so you unvoted... ok... doesn't explain putting the reasonless vote on Anka. You said you would explain, you never did, you still haven't. You've been spending the time trying to blow my attack out of the water with this false story change angle and it's not going to work. tell me why Anka deserved your vote.

It just seems to me like you're taking a lot of things and twisting them to make me seem scummier than I am, and the entire town is following you. I don't know if that makes you scum or not, but I don't like the trend; whether it is being used against me or being used against anyone else.

Kinda like the thing you're doing with the bussing issue right? But I'll give you some leeway here. what specifically have I been taking and twisting? You say a 'lot' of things right, so there has to be a couple more instances.

I'm okay with being lynched at this point. Hear me out, though. Scum is within Otolia or Korlash. Yeah, yeah, OMGUS, but I really don't care at this point whether I die or not so that's not a factor. I "tunneled" Otolia because he was the only one who really seemed scummy to me. But Korlash's run against me has read as pretty scummy to me. In fact, many of the things in this game he has done have been done with finesse and very much like experienced scum. Once I get lynched, do me the honor of taking one of the two (or both) out tomorrow, okay?

Again, what things? Also, how does the finesse of experienced scum differ from the finesse of an experienced player? And I do like this move. Major props there. The self sacrificing attitude and the plea to take out these two players making the scum pool a total of three people. And here comes the irony, town only has two lynches left. So what do they do? They let the person willing to be lynched off the hook and turn their attention to the other two. Genius.

Will caution you on the whole "I'm ready to be lynched guys" thing... Almost never works in mainstream games. Still, very nicely done here.

However there is a problem in your logic : what if both Poiven and me are town ? What if Poiven is just a normal townie who is tunneling ? You could consider it framing but it's a risky tactics. You have to have courage to pull off such a tactic as scum. I don't know if Poiven has enough experience to pull it off. Plus both your arguments against me are not that compelling, and I believe there is an easier target (Ant) so I am not convinced.

Really? Poi isn't the guy who needs experience, he seems to have natural talent. I mean just look at him laying down the old puppy dog eye routine and scoring an unvote off of it. it doesn't take a huge amount of intelligence to think "Ok I'll kill this person because it would obviously seem like this person would want them dead." Just because someone is a newbie doesn't make them stupid you know.

Ok now that that's covered I want to give Kiwi's posts a good scrub down...

[Korlash]

Ok Got a chance to read through them. I was hoping to go over the whole thing but... Kinda not feeling up to it right now.

But I love the scum list angle. It's brilliant. I love even more how similar it is to the VCA. Hell look at it. The four people my VCA found are almost always near the bottom short of a few instances with Jake... This would have been great to know yesterday in retrospect but whatever, just fills me with more confidence.

The "I can see zMM also being scum with Otolia" thing actually made me pause for a second. That's a really good point. it's actually something that can stand up against my "Why would Anka buddy so hard" point.

I also like the two questions Poi didn't answer. It's a trend of his I don't like.

I'm not one to second guess myself at points like this over little things like this so I don't forsee any sort of vote hop going on, but I do love the extra joyjoy feelings these cases have brought me. =D I'll have to remember to partner Votecount analysis's with scum lists next time, it could save us a few weeks of heartache.

[Princess Kiwi]

Even though I'm about to do an ISO on you Korlash, thanks for the compliments on my posts. I couldn't help but notice the voting patterns and the scumdars, how they always seemed to match... o.-

I -might- be able to do your ISO tomorrow, but not tonight...not a good thing to read ISOs on someone when taking Nyquill -_-

Also, thanks for telling me how to use the quote tags.

@ Korlash: Do you think you're tunneling Poiven? I mean, you're focused entirely on him. Don't you think Otolia could be scum? ZMM had suspicions of Megatron, and even though it's unlikely, there is the possibility that Poiven is not scum. Then again...he's doing the same thing Otolia did and willing to sacrafice himself for the team. It seems to me like you're tunneling Poiven, which is exactly what you're accusing him of doing with Otolia.

[Otolia]

However there is a problem in your logic : what if both Poiven and me are town ? What if Poiven is just a normal townie who is tunneling ? You could consider it framing but it's a risky tactics. You have to have courage to pull off such a tactic as scum. I don't know if Poiven has enough experience to pull it off. Plus both your arguments against me are not that compelling, and I believe there is an easier target (Ant) so I am not convinced.

Really? Poi isn't the guy who needs experience, he seems to have natural talent. I mean just look at him laying down the old puppy dog eye routine and scoring an unvote off of it. it doesn't take a huge amount of intelligence to think "Ok I'll kill this person because it would obviously seem like this person would want them dead." Just because someone is a newbie doesn't make them stupid you know.

Two things though. I never wanted to kill Kiwi, and I certainly never gave anyone the idea I would target her in D1, this is absurd. I am perplexed by the fact that the scum targeted her. Furthermore, target her to frame me would have been ever more absurd. Until you can prove me that I gave elements (certainly unwillingly) that I could target Kiwi, I will stay with my "Poiven is tunelling" stance. Because so far it seems like the whole deal against Poiven is based on is aggressiveness against me. And that alone isn't enough.

@Kiwi : I am done reading your post against me again. Though you did a lot of work, you could have spare you some time. Buddying a scum or being buddied by him in D1 isn't scummy (it happens statistically) and so is changing one's vote in order to get a lynch (that's actually either scum opportunism or town willingness not to slow the game). The sole valuable thing is my placement on Ankamius' scumlist and his on mine.

[Korlash]

@ Korlash: Do you think you're tunneling Poiven? I mean, you're focused entirely on him. Don't you think Otolia could be scum? ZMM had suspicions of Megatron, and even though it's unlikely, there is the possibility that Poiven is not scum. Then again...he's doing the same thing Otolia did and willing to sacrafice himself for the team. It seems to me like you're tunneling Poiven, which is exactly what you're accusing him of doing with Otolia.

Funny really, Yes and at the same time a huge resounding No. what I'm doing could in the broadest sense be defined as tunneling. However it differs from what Poi is doing a great deal, include both in structure and scale. While Poi has been focused on Oto alone, I have been focused on four different people. I'm fairly certain you can see why focusing on four people is less dangerous then just one.

Structure wise, Poi found his suspect in Oto day one (according to his comments) then built a case, and then started making new information fit his case. Text book tunneling. I however, started with a blank slate, ran everyone through a scumputer-esq program, received my suspect list, and then added new stuff to their case. So Poi's structure looks like "Suspect-Case-New Info", while mine is "Case-Suspect-New Info".

My 'tunneling' is a hell of a lot less dangerous on both accounts then Poi's because it looks at a wider scale of people and is structured in the least biased way. In addition, I recognize my 'tunneling' and am taking steps to help lessen it's potential damage. (That is I am following along with ant and Mega just in case we get that far) This is one reason I feel the need to question Poi on it, so that in the event he is town he can recognize what he is doing and try to fix it. One way he could start would be to elaborate more on his suspicions of me.

Two things though. I never wanted to kill Kiwi, and I certainly never gave anyone the idea I would target her in D1, this is absurd. I am perplexed by the fact that the scum targeted her. Furthermore, target her to frame me would have been ever more absurd. Until you can prove me that I gave elements (certainly unwillingly) that I could target Kiwi, I will stay with my "Poiven is tunelling" stance. Because so far it seems like the whole deal against Poiven is based on is aggressiveness against me. And that alone isn't enough.

Well as absurd as it is Poi is clearly under that impression so you can't think of him as town and still hold to the idea you didn't give anyone that idea. I personally still hold to the belief you would have target z and used it against me. I also don't see why anyone would have targeted kiwi but given the fact it's been proven the only thing that makes sense is as a way to frame someone.

And when it comes to that, you don't need to have given elements that you would have targeted Kiwi. If someone kills player A to frame Player Y then they already have some idea of what elements they are going to use in their case. And seeing as how Poi has already brought his case about you cannot deny that elements have been brought out. Whether you agree with them or not is irrelevant.

Now you're just being intentionally blind and wasting the little time we have left. if you don't want to believe Poi was trying to frame you, fine. but don't sit there and say no one has brought this stuff against you when clearly Poi himself has. You're sitting there trying to make me and Kiwi build Poi's case against you to prove to you it exists... I can't even begin to describe how retarded that is.

[Ant]

Ummm, Otolia, why are you so convinced that I'm the easiest lynch?

[Ant]

Also, (excuse the double post), why don't you ever consider peoples opinions? Kiwi had a huge bunch of evidence and all you have to say is that it was a waste of time typing it all up? The only defense you've given is a lame "what if."

[Otolia]

Now you're just being intentionally blind and wasting the little time we have left. if you don't want to believe Poi was trying to frame you, fine. but don't sit there and say no one has brought this stuff against you when clearly Poi himself has. You're sitting there trying to make me and Kiwi build Poi's case against you to prove to you it exists... I can't even begin to describe how retarded that is.

Oh darling ! So convoluted that I don't quite follow you.

Anyway, it doesn't matter if Poiven die tonight, we will be able to do a no lynch tomorrow to gain another day. When a replacement has been found, we will close the day.

[Poiven]

How about Princess Kiwi yesterday when Z came out with his jailing thing? Honestly, I could have quietly slipped onto that and been all "Z IS OUR HERO AND FOUND THE SCUM" and then just rode that out, but I didn't, because I didn't think she was scum.

And I could have easily rode Z's wagon day one instead of jumping off of it like I did. We all have instances where we 'could have' done something else but ultimately it means very little. This isn't a retrospective game, you can't look into the past and say that things could have gone differently just because of the way they played out.

Take for example this one you brought up. You could not have quietly slipped onto it. For starters, you came out before Z claimed fully gunning for Oto. You may have been able to make the switch to Kiwi but you certainly couldn't have done it quietly. Add to it that she went from what, zero votes to like three in the blink of an eye and it would have definitely been a risk to join up then. And of course lets not forget that you used the kiwi thing to further push Oto, so in theory you used it to push a lynch anyway. In reality, joining the wagon would have been riskier then using it to push another because you would have had to go from vote one to like vote three on the wagon thereby exposing yourself. This is why saying things like "i could have done this as scum" usually don't work...

Look, I hate hypotheticals and WIFOM as much as the next guy, but even after starting a case full-gas on Oto, it would have been easy to say "Z disproved it, Kiwi must be scum." I wouldn't be in the situation I am now, and I knew that gunning against Oto so strongly would either end up with him or me lynched. I was banking on him, but I guess we'll see how that works out.

Korlash, you tell me not to give up the case on Otolia, then you accuse me of tunneling for it.

Well answer me this, do you think you have been tunneling Oto? looking back, haven't you pretty much been singly focused on him for two whole days? Short of a brief period where you said you would be willing to vote Jake, not why he was scummy but simply that you were willing to hammer him, and this now instance of calling me potential scum it's been all Oto all the time. two whole days focused on one person with only two tiny snippets of even suggesting others might be scum? yeah, I think you might be somewhat tunnel struck.

And yes, it is a bit of a mind screw to tell you not to drop a case but not to tunnel. It's something you'll learn over time. But there is a huge difference between not abandoning a case and completely tunneling on it.

So, basically you're saying that it's a newb mistake, but it's one of your key points on me being scummy? That doesn't make sense to me. And I hate the newb card, as well, but this is the first serious mafia site I've played on. I've played on a couple other sites, but nowhere that was nearly as serious as here. Tunneling, for example, is a new term to me, and I'm still trying to find that balance.

I read this once and I like to keep it in mind for mafia; don't attribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance (or even personality).

You say I jumped off of the Ant wagon because it was dying (which it wasn't, Anka was the only one off, sorry for the mixed-up facts; I had forgotten Anka was off of it and thought it was still L-1 when I unvoted, one of the reasons I unvoted so quickly). When you find out that isn't true, you say I was bussing.

First off, Anka's unvote was the sign that Ant's wagon was going to fall apart. secondly, in the very same post that I mentioned the wagon falling apart, I mentioned you throwing Anak under the bus, aka bussing. They are not two separate things and I have never yet changed my story as you seem to be implying. Thirdly, this is yet another time you choose to ignore my most burning question to you about this issue. WHY DID YOU VOTE ANKA? You thought Ant was at L-1 so you unvoted... ok... doesn't explain putting the reasonless vote on Anka. You said you would explain, you never did, you still haven't. You've been spending the time trying to blow my attack out of the water with this false story change angle and it's not going to work. tell me why Anka deserved your vote.

First off, no, Anka's unvote did not kill the wagon at all. An Ant lynch still would have been easy as hell then, and could have come at any moment, which wass the reason for the unvote once I felt an Ant lynch would be bad.

As for the vote, I've said this already. There was no new evidence that I could introduce that was not introduced already. I was convinced to join the wagon by the cases that had been presented. At some point there's just nothing more you can really say about a case, especially if two rather experienced players have built up wall upon wall of case. There was

nothing more to add.

I voted for him because the cases were compelling. That doesn't mean I had "my own" evidence.

It just seems to me like you're taking a lot of things and twisting them to make me seem scummier than I am, and the entire town is following you. I don't know if that makes you scum or not, but I don't like the trend; whether it is being used against me or being used against anyone else.

Kinda like the thing you're doing with the bussing issue right? But I'll give you some leeway here. what specifically have I been taking and twisting? You say a 'lot' of things right, so there has to be a couple more instances.

A lot of your evidence in this case just seems like completely normal things that are being picked apart, twisted, or blown out of proportion. Maybe I'm wrong because of the defending perspective, and maybe that's just how it works in this game anyway, but some of it just seems somewhat bogus.

I'm okay with being lynched at this point. Hear me out, though. Scum is within Otolia or Korlash. Yeah, yeah, OMGUS, but I really don't care at this point whether I die or not so that's not a factor. I "tunneled" Otolia because he was the only one who really seemed scummy to me. But Korlash's run against me has read as pretty scummy to me. In fact, many of the things in this game he has done have been done with finesse and very much like experienced scum. Once I get lynched, do me the honor of taking one of the two (or both) out tomorrow, okay?

Again, what things? Also, how does the finesse of experienced scum differ from the finesse of an experienced player? And I do like this move. Major props there. The self sacrificing attitude and the plea to take out these two players making the scum pool a total of three people. And here comes the irony, town only has two lynches left. So what do they do? They let the person willing to be lynched off the hook and turn their attention to the other two. Genius.

Will caution you on the whole "I'm ready to be lynched guys" thing... Almost never works in mainstream games. Still, very nicely done here.

The finesse of experienced scum differs from experienced player by taking bogus things and warping them. Again, as I said, I'm not completely sure that's what is happening, but it is a possibility. Also, the difference between experienced scum and experienced town is, to a newbie, so small, that you have to be somewhat paranoid when it comes to experienced players.

I think I had done the math at some point, but I didn't realize we were down to only two lynches. But I'll be honest, I really wasn't trying all that hard not to get lynched at the end. I know that's not "playing to the town's win condition" but this game is really starting to kill me, and life is getting more and more busy; I'm going back to the states in 8 days and I've been up to a lot, and will be when I get back, as well. Honestly I somewhat hope I do get lynched today, and even considered (but decided against, obviously) self-hammering just to get it over with and let the game continue.

Not to mention, if I were lynched, my cases wouldn't be cut and analyzed to see if I'm scum, but rather taken at face value and hopefully something would actually be done with them.

[Korlash]

Look, I hate hypotheticals and WIFOM as much as the next guy, but even after starting a case full-gas on Oto, it would have been easy to say "Z disproved it, Kiwi must be scum." I wouldn't be in the situation I am now, and I knew that gunning against Oto so strongly would either end up with him or me lynched. I was banking on him, but I guess we'll see how that works out.

Ok... but as scum saying someone disproved your case robs you of that later. And knowing that kiwi would have been a mislynch would have made you second guess a quick jump onto it.

Can we both agree this is essentially a wasted discussion? Cause we could literally do this for a while.

So, basically you're saying that it's a newb mistake, but it's one of your key points on me being scummy? That doesn't make sense to me. And I hate the newb card, as well, but this is the first serious mafia site I've played on. I've played on a couple other sites, but nowhere that was nearly as serious as here. Tunneling, for example, is a new term to me, and I'm still trying to find that balance.

Whoa... I seriously don't remember using it as a point against you being scum. i certainly don't remember using it as a key point... Could you point this out to me so I can figure out where the confusion lies?

And I'll tell you now. you'll be hearing tunneling a lot... and most of the time it will be misused.

First off, no, Anka's unvote did not kill the wagon at all. An Ant lynch still would have been easy as hell then, and could have come at any moment, which wass the reason for the unvote once I felt an Ant lynch would be bad.

O.O Ok... You had three wagons going on at the same time, and me and z were both pushing one together... If you honestly think Ant would have been an easy sell... then ok. I'll let you think that. I'll leave it at you thought an Ant lynch would be bad and move on... wait no... Why did you feel an Ant lynch would be bad exactly?

As for the vote, I've said this already. There was no new evidence that I could introduce that was not introduced already. I was convinced to join the wagon by the cases that had been presented. At some point there's just nothing more you can really say about a case, especially if two rather experienced players have built up wall upon wall of case. There was nothing more to add. I voted for him because the cases were compelling. That doesn't mean I had "my own" evidence.

Ok teaching moment. It's not about adding new info, it's about justifying your vote. you are responsible every time you vote, and you need to back yourself up. This gives you protection (for attacks like this for instance) and it lets us know exactly where you stand. Even if you agree with the cases presented, you should still make your own stance known. You should highlight the biggest issues, in your own words, and in your own order. Even saying the same case in your own words will add your perspective on things, and add further pressure to the person to respond.

ok back to things. Can you, even if you see no point, explain to me the general reasons you saw that caused you to think voting Anka was worth it? You say me and z posted wall upon wall, so there has to be a few points that stood out to you that made sense. I'm not looking for your own evidence, I'm looking for the specific reasons that cause you to want to vote him.

A lot of your evidence in this case just seems like completely normal things that are being picked apart, twisted, or blown out of proportion. Maybe I'm wrong because of the defending perspective, and maybe that's just how it works in this game anyway, but some of it just seems somewhat bogus.

One key way to make yourself a better player is to play to specifics. If someone attacks you, force them to give specifics, when you attack someone be as specific as possible. Like this, "a lot of my evidence..." what in particular? "A lot of" could mean a lot of things, it could mean one, or two, or all... And if you think something is bogus, by not highlighting it then it's just going to sit there forever.

I think I had done the math at some point, but I didn't realize we were down to only two lynches. But I'll be honest, I really wasn't trying all that hard not to get lynched at the end. I know that's not "playing to the town's win condition" but this game is really starting to kill me, and life is getting more and more busy; I'm going back to the states in 8 days and I've been up to a lot, and will be when I get back, as well. Honestly I somewhat hope I do get lynched today, and even considered (but decided against, obviously) self-hammering just to get it over with and let the game continue.

That's the key reason why I want to make sure we lynch correctly today. I mean I know we have tomorrow and lylo left to play with and I know we essentially have little chance of not hitting the scum by then but I really don't want this game to drag out too much longer. it's always a bad sign when even the mod starts feeling the effects of the game...

[Otolia]

So I want to make things clear. We have two flakers in our game (shame on you Megatron) event though many thinks Poiven is the right choice, I wanted to underline that Ant has been prod dodging for quite some time as Megatron have. So why not lynch of those two ? Though there is town excuses for not participating, prod dodging is most likely done by scums.

What do you think ?

[Korlash]

And give you a chance to escape death? I think not sir... Ant and Mega are not in the crosshairs today because all evidence points to you and Poi. Two lynches means both of you can die and best chance of winning is achieved. Lynching outside of you two today and having that person flip town means that one of you survives to endgame, and if that is the scum we not only lose, but lose because we abandoned our best chance at winning.

Lynching one of you two today and having that person be the town puts us in a situation tomorrow where both Ant and Mega MUST be looked at even with the evidence saying it's you due to the endgame rule. (everyone is a suspect unless outright confirmed town) However, it's a situation in which we only have to deal with one of you and Poi, meaning looking at them and weighing it vs. the evidence on you two is easier and it prevents either of you from capitalizing on the situation. Having both of you alive and only one of ant/mega in lylo will make it a crap shoot, and I don't like endgames like that.

In short, we aren't lynching outside you two because it nulls the whole "we can't lose" bit that both the VCA and scum lists support. In addition, spending a lot of time talking about Ant or Mega today is just a waste of time. (except for maybe Kiwi) If we make it to tomorrow (I.e. don't lynch scum today) the entire day tomorrow will be discussing me, ant, and mega. And seeing as how that day is going to end it might even be better not to go into it then either. But we'll cover that if it comes to it.

So no... I don't think lynching a lurker is a good move right now.

[Otolia]

Evidences ?

Anyway since you won't agree with my idea, I'm ok with lynching Poiven as soon as there is a replacement found. And sooner rather than later would be a good thing because I'll drop the game by August 9th.

[Mr. Flay]

Lack of available replacements right now is kind of ridiculous. So what I'll do is lower lynch threshold to 3 votes out of 5, since that's effectively what you're playing with.

Fourth Vote Count of Day Three:

Poiven - 2 (Korlash, Ant)
Otolia - 1 (Poiven)
Ant - 1 (Otolia)

Not Voting - Megatron, Princess Kiwi

With

six alive

five playing, three votes will be needed to lynch. Day Three will end no later than Sunday, July 17th

((expired on 2011-07-17 15:00:00))

.

[Korlash]

Mod: I know I don't have the years of experience that you do, but seeing as how lowing the lynch threshold actually favors the scum shouldn't you reset the entire votecount and not just the last vote?

Evidences ?

We're 43 pages into the game man, don't play dumb.

[Korlash]

Sorry Flayzilla, that was a poorly worded question.

Mod: Seeing as how the fundamental ruling of the vote count was changed suddenly, shouldn't it logically be completely reset in order to remain fair and balanced between all players?

I'm not great at wording things like this... But I hope you get where I'm coming from.

[Poiven]

That means I'm at L-1 now.

Korlash, do you still think I'm scummier than Otolia?

[Otolia]

Since Ant and Megatron aren't participating, we should discard their votes. This is crazy.

[Poiven]

Since Ant and Megatron aren't participating, we should discard their votes. This is crazy.

That was pretty much already done.