Mafia 137 - Neruzian Era Mafia SERIAL KILLER WIN!

[Neruz]

Uprising

has been requested replacement due to an extended period of no access in the immediate future, and has been replaced by

chkflip

.

[chkflip]

/catching up.

[Neruz]

Also Votes

mastin2 ( 4 ) -

Tomie Uzumaki, malpascp, Phoebus, edmund.angles

Tomie Uzumaki ( 4 ) -

mastin2, Empking, Bowser, Pine

hiplop ( 4 ) -

Maxous, Torqez, Hirarky, Toon Fighter

Toon Fighter ( 3 )-

GreyICE, vezokpiraka, hiplop

paupam's rat ( 1 ) -

warriormode

zMuffinMan ( 1 ) -

somerandomguy

Phoebus ( 1 ) -

zMuffinMan

edmund.angles ( 1 ) -

paupam's rat

Bowser ( 1 ) -

MintKitten

11 Votes to Lynch

Day 1 will end at approximately 10:00AM GMT+0 on the 26^th of July.

[mastin2]

So, GreyICE, you think Pine's town, now? I'll give you that, but that STILL leaves this unanswered:

What do you think of his explanation?

That, I do not see from you. What do you think, of his explanation about his view on meta?

[Pine]

GreyICE's sig doesn't make him scum. His fluffy behavior, so contrary to how I've seen him as Town in the past, is what makes him scum.

[mastin2]

And what is your opinion on Grey's read on you, Pine?

[mastin2]

Also,

Also, utilizing meta assessments is PART of effective scumhunting, so GI's signature is myopic bullshit.

1: Could you elaborate on your viewpoint? Just for me.

[mastin2]

(What is it with you two and only answering half of the questions I give you?)

[chkflip]

Not particularly enjoying Tomie's constant "I don't like Mastin's scum-read on me~" defense, it reads to me like they're drilling it in our heads that mastin's wrong without actually providing us with some proper content to prove to us why mastin is incorrect.

Mastin, on the other hand, used a lot of IIoA with those early lists by way of throwing a lot of town reads out there without much base. Don't really see scum doing that, however, so I've got a townread on that slot overall.

After this skimming I'm partially comfortable with a hiplop, edmund, or Tomie lynch.

I won't be voting right off the bat -- I want to give the thread a more thorough read beforehand.

[Pine]

@mastin: I don't understand the request for elaboration. Meta is a tool for scumhunting. Pretty simple statement.

GI has an opinion on me? I missed it in his arboreal ramblings.

Ask better questions and I'll answer them. Without rolling my eyes, even.

[mastin2]

Meta is a tool for scumhunting. Pretty simple statement.

Alright. I'll try to make it more clear.
How do you use it for scumhunting?
How is it an effective tool for you?
How do you incorporate it into your reads?
How reliable have you found it to be?
What do you think of GreyICE's hatred of it?
What is your Meta process? (That is, how do you obtain these Meta Reads?)

GI has an opinion on me? I missed it in his arboreal ramblings.

Yes. Those WERE his opinion on you; read them. And explain to me what you think of them, now that you know they're there.

[mastin2]

Additionally,

GI's signature is myopic bullshit.

WHY?

[vezokpiraka]

I won't be voting right off the bat -- I want to give the thread a more thorough read beforehand.

"I want to fence sit a little and see which wagons grows that is not on my scumbuddy. "

unvote
vote ckhflip

[Hiraki]

He just fucking joined in.

Seriously Vezo?

[Maxous]

Heh, really Hiplop?
You agree with

all

of GreyICE's points on Toon Fighter?
The first point was GreyICE attacking him for stuff Mastin said when Toon Fighter was talking about Tomie.
The second and third point was just misrepesentative. And his points convinced you???
I don't buy that and I don't buy Hiplop. Would really like to see him lynched.

Mastin - GI did'nt call Pine called scum. I like your concern about it though.

Don't really see scum doing that, however, so I've got a townread on that slot overall.

Normally, yes.
However with particular player consider it a nulltell.

oh and

Pine

-

Explain how Tomie's defence is inconsistent if you don't mind.

[chkflip]

I love it when a good RVS wagon comes together. *lights cigar*

I'm a fan of the "second vote of an RVS wagon" scumtell and believe there to be at least one scum between edmund and Tomie because of it.

Here's the beginning of Tomie's fluff defense. Repeating that you're disappointed doesn't really sit well with me, especially when it doesn't appear as if you're doing much of anything else on top of whining about being a solid player's early scumread. Don't care about your opinion on gut. That's fluff.

The first of Mastin's RVS wagon votes to appear semi-serious is Mal's (the 'when' link above) who takes a stance against Mastin's style of posting like a madman. The vote in and of itself seems scummy as it's beginning to break into the serious realm. Scum want to walk out of RVS and into real voting ASAP, imo, so they can get their first mislynch faster. This vote (which is on page 2) appears to be attempting at just that.

The second of Mastin's RVS wagon votes to appear even more serious is Phoebus', which at the time had zero explination. Something zMuffin unshockingly picks right up on before Mr. Hall Monitor can come in with his reason. Phoebus doesn't seem like a very active poster, but his meta-historic reason to back his vote seems not only contrived, but a strong attempt to sway the town by way of calling out Mastin's overall merit.

Hiplop's Mastin vote also seems a little contrived given the fact that he was LOL'ing at the list for what hiplop feels is an overall ingenuinity of the list itself; in other words, the completely serious vote (which imo officially took us out of RVS) sits in the same territory as Phoebus and Mal's due to it's nature in wishing to rush out of RVS on page 3. Granted, RVS shouldn't exist much longer than it did, but given the fact that this post is hiplop's first real post of content? It seems scum-motivated. Something I think Maxous picks up on with their unexplained vote.

Speaking of which, Maxous is the first to defend Tomie there by saying there's actual scumhunting and not just fluffery in the posts therein. I'd be interested in seeing which points Maxous thinks are Tomie doing said scum-hunting. Not to say it's completely absent, it just isn't as much as I'd like to see given the amount of "lol u wrong bro~" coming from the slot.

Tomie takes no prisoners in linking themself to edmund by way of defending them just four minutes after Bowser makes the post quoted. Nice way to fluff, too, given that Tomie's defending of edmund is a whopping 29 words. Yes, this means something

to me

because they decided to quote Bowser's big ass already-double-quoted post... to reply with a single line? Four minutes later? Why not just use on of ^these and call it a day? Scum fluffery to look town.

Furthermore, their interaction with zMuffin here doesn't appear town-motivated in the slightest. Why do you care about zMuffin's curiosity? Why aren't you more concerned with not "lolderping~" against Mastin's obvious catch in scum by actually presenting a case against Mastin instead of the same interactions with that slot over and over again? zMuffin's response reads town to me, pretty much solidifying my scum-read on Tomie for me.

ITT Torqez random votes

hella late

. I read that vote as pure RVS since it doesn't appear as if Torqez is paying a whole lot of attention to the thread as a whole. He just skimmed, saw a post he didn't like and decided to lay a joke-vote as his first post.

This is only up to page five and a lot of potential scumminess picked up on. Though I still have five more pages to fully interpret, I believe I've found enough reason to lay my vote.

VOTE: Tomie

[Hiraki]

Tomie isn't scum. FFS.

[chkflip]

Vote: Hiplop

Grey, I still have no meta so you're wrong.

Btw. he's scum.

If I'm incorrect and my vote is on town, I'd love to hear your full case on Hiplop then.

Do note that I've only completely taken in up to page five and given the whole thread a quick skim.

[Tomie Uzumaki]

Jumping on a wagon that already has a bunch of people on it (many with no or bad reasons) for shit-reasoning like that is bad. How do you expect a game to start exactly? Mastin's "reads" were a way to generate discussion and get us moving from RVS. While they have clogged up other venues for scumhunting by generating too much discussion about the reason for his "reads", this was not Mastin's fault. He hasnt given full reasoning behind his comments for a reason as well (probably to gauge people's reactions) and that should be rather obvious, especially to someone who has been at MS.net for as long as you have. Your last line, about it not being a great loss if Mastin is town, is just awful. You try to exonerate yourself from responsibility by making it out as though it would not matter if he flips town because supposedly he is a hinderance to town either way. That is a classic scum move, and you are now my top scumread.

I'm disagreeing so much with Empking ._. There wasn't any sign of reaction-gauging. The only player he has asked to comment on his reads in some way, was me. All the other players were mentioning how stupid it was as it has players on it as town whom had only confirmed. If he were reaction-gauging he could have asked players what they think of his other reads. But no, he's doing zit when it comes to convincing others, he just 'leads' them. And that's what Edmund is pointing out.
The part about him bandwagoning is bad as well.

Eh, it just looked to me like he was curious about the wagon on Mastin.
To be fair the wagon on Mastin was about as unexplained as Mastin's own suspicions

Max votes: 6
TF - random, Tomie - ???, Max - Random, Malp - random, Phoebus - Policy, Hiplop - suspicion.
Only mine is unexplained.
But besides that, if you're curious about something and think that the wagoned player doesn't deserve it, would you keep your vote on the wagoned player and let the wagon be left without investigation?
But for some reason (I know what I believe the reason is~) he does unvote later and attack the only known player who voted Mastin with a real reason based on allignment this game. I agree with Grey that his attack against Hiplop is bad, but for the same reasons I mentioned towards Muffin.

Actually, mastin is town for #7 and

that big reads list which is overly elaborate.

You were saying?
Anyway, his argument is that he believes it's Mastin-scum trying to appear town. Which, if Mastin is scum, is working. I've seen a few players mentioning that Mastin looks more town due to it, based upon their own interpretation of it. That's not how it works.

You think mastin is scum, you should have a provisional town read on me, right? Even if you think my actions are "scummy".

Your points about this dichotomy are crap and need to die right now. I'm town regardless of mastin's flip, and you're either scum or playing like crap if you're actually suggesting there's some inverse relationship with our alignments.

No, wrong. Like you said, you're acting scummy independantly of Mastin's allignment. However, I don't see you as scum with Mastin. And please, decide what you're attacking me for. First you rethorical question me if you aren't scummy independant of Mastin and now I should have a 'what-if' townread on you. You can't have it both ways.

Why are you voting mastin?

Come now, you attacked me first that I should be voting you over Mastin, while not knowing what my reason is for voting Mastin. Don't you agree that that is opportunistic from you? I'd like to hear that answer first from you~
But a hint, Pine and co are wrong with their assumptions.

Post 239 from Mastin reinforces Edmund's point against him ._.

On my townlist:
-Edmund
-Maxous
-Hiraki
-GreyIce
-Hiplop

Will respond to Chk seperately.

[Tomie Uzumaki]

Not particularly enjoying Tomie's constant "I don't like Mastin's scum-read on me~" defense, it reads to me like they're drilling it in our heads that mastin's wrong without actually providing us with some proper content to prove to us why mastin is incorrect.

His reason being? If it's other than gut, then I don't know what it is. If it's gut, I don't know what to say about it.
My 'I am disappointed~' comments had a reason. Mastin failed to pick it up, so I dropped them.

The first of Mastin's RVS wagon votes to appear semi-serious is Mal's (the 'when' link above) who takes a stance against Mastin's style of posting like a madman. The vote in and of itself seems scummy as it's beginning to break into the serious realm. Scum want to walk out of RVS and into real voting ASAP, imo, so they can get their first mislynch faster. This vote (which is on page 2) appears to be attempting at just that.

Your thought on Mastin?
Other than this question (Yes, it's serious as he was first with a suspicion and players are claiming he was trying to lead us out of the RVS), this logic is full of fail. It starts with taking this vote seriously and it ends with the conclusion of it. Wanting to end the RVS is not scummy. Hello? How else can we scumhunt if we stay in the RVS?

The second of Mastin's RVS wagon votes to appear even more serious is Phoebus', which at the time had zero explination. Something zMuffin unshockingly picks right up on before Mr. Hall Monitor can come in with his reason. Phoebus doesn't seem like a very active poster, but his meta-historic reason to back his vote seems not only contrived, but a strong attempt to sway the town by way of calling out Mastin's overall merit.

There was a reason Mastin got the title 'unabridged'. He would quote lots of posts to take every sentence out of context and comment on it. It's actually a shock he has lots of 'admirers'. Also, have you never seen a policy vote?

Hiplop's Mastin vote also seems a little contrived given the fact that he was LOL'ing at the list for what hiplop feels is an overall ingenuinity of the list itself; in other words, the completely serious vote (which imo officially took us out of RVS) sits in the same territory as Phoebus and Mal's

due to it's nature in wishing to rush out of RVS on page 3. Granted, RVS shouldn't exist much longer than it did

, but given the fact that this post is hiplop's first real post of content? It seems scum-motivated. Something I think Maxous picks up on with their unexplained vote.

Bolded says a lot already. Also, what else do you think Hiplop could have responded to?

Tomie takes no prisoners in linking themself to edmund by way of defending them just four minutes after Bowser makes the post quoted. Nice way to fluff, too, given that Tomie's defending of edmund is a whopping 29 words. Yes, this means something to me because they decided to quote Bowser's big ass already-double-quoted post... to reply with a single line? Four minutes later? Why not just use on of ^these and call it a day? Scum fluffery to look town.

When an opinion is posted, it's not fluff. Learn your definition.
Other than that, it's the way I do things. I don't do ^. Are you really getting nit-picky?

Furthermore, their interaction with zMuffin here doesn't appear town-motivated in the slightest. Why do you care about zMuffin's curiosity? Why aren't you more concerned with not "lolderping~" against Mastin's obvious catch in scum by actually presenting a case against Mastin instead of the same interactions with that slot over and over again? zMuffin's response reads town to me, pretty much solidifying my scum-read on Tomie for me.

Because Muffin is appearing scummy to me? If something gets my interest, I'll look into it. Focusing on one player has no use at all.
I'm dealing with Mastin some time soonish as finally my vote is getting the attention it deserves. I'm now waiting on that player who should be looking into it *Hi, Mastin~* Oh shoot, I used ** instead of --. Will I be attacked for that as well ?

Seems Muffin first got competition from Toon and now also from Chk. Perhaps, he even went to fourth spot...

[zMuffinMan]

How do I get back up to #2?

[edmund.angles]

@zMuffin: The difference between open 305 and now? It was obvoius you were joking by page 3 and by page 4 you said it yourself.
I have no problems with people acting weird to get discussion started, but if you insist you are serious still by page 11 I'm gonna take it at face value.

@mastin: How could I think it would be easy to get you lynched when I've seen the massive beating Tomie and Hiplop have taken for suggesting the same?

[mastin2]

I've concluded Tomie has to either be an alt of someone who's played with me multiple times, or has done a fair amount of research into me.

Tomie continues to be scum, though.

As does edmund.

Have access to my notes, now, so I'll be working a lot.

[Hiraki]

Vote: Hiplop

Grey, I still have no meta so you're wrong.

Btw. he's scum.

If I'm incorrect and my vote is on town, I'd love to hear your full case on Hiplop then.

Do note that I've only completely taken in up to page five and given the whole thread a quick skim.

ISO Hiplop.

Easy scum there.

I really don't want to explain more.

[Maxous]

If I'm incorrect and my vote is on town, I'd love to hear your full case on Hiplop then.

Why did you ask this before you read the entire thread? (he explained already)
Also why did you vote before you were finsihed reading?

@mastin: How could I think it would be easy to get you lynched when I've seen the massive beating Tomie and Hiplop have taken for suggesting the same?

huh.
Good point.

And are you going to answer Mastin? Your response of 'he's still scum' is not going to wash.

I only skimmed the long posts so might respond to them later.