Mini 1190: Game over

[Sundy]

unvote, vote: The Fool

PJ & Thomith are very tempting, but if one is bad, they both are.

[Twistedspoon]

any chance of a deadline extention? :/

[xvart]

On the first bit, I just liked the Empking lynch better. I wasn't really thinking about the implications it would have when I did have to claim.

Id be willing to bet their aren't two millers(emp,sleepy) or two masons(me and thomith, sleepy and whomever). Is what the sentence meant. It was deliberatly vague cause I didn't wanna claim early.

Also I just liked the empking lynch more.

I'm not talking about the implications of what you said. I'm talking directly about your thought process behind

you not voting someone you knew to be lying about his role

. Your clarification (915) of the original post clearly states that you knew that one of the mason groups was lying.

Id be willing to bet their aren't two millers(emp,sleepy) or two masons(me and thomith, sleepy and whomever). Is what the sentence meant. It was deliberatly vague cause I didn't wanna claim early.

Also I just liked the empking lynch more.

If you were a mason, your thought process would have looked like this:

two masons (

Panzer

and

Thomith

) OR (

sleepyKrew

and

whomever

)

someone must be lying about their role, since there couldn't be two mason groups in the same game. Since you would know you are town mason you would eliminate the person you know not to be lying (from your perspective):

two masons (

Panzer

and

Thomith

) OR (

sleepyKrew

and

whomever

)

Leaving SleepyKrew as the lying scumbag. How could you "like another lynch more" than someone who is lying about his role? Considering SleepyKrew flipped scum it looks more and more like a subtle bus considering the information you are now claiming.

[Twistedspoon]

9 hours until a No-lynch occurs if no lynch occurs

votecount

Edit:

change of heart

after considering the replacements that we've had today and after reading the V/La topic, I find justification for a deadline extension for another 3 days

[monk]

unvote, vote: The Fool

PJ & Thomith are very tempting, but if one is bad, they both are.

Blegh!

What do you think of the xvart wagon?

[Heliman]

Ok, done with the reread. The claim seems okay, but there's one thing that's setting me off:

Out of curiousity, PanzThom, do you have daytalk capabilities?

Yes we have daytalk.

Pardon if this is just me speaking from inexperience with normal games, but I didn't know that Masons could have a Daytalk in Normal mafia. The wiki for the mason role states that masons communicate at night, and day-rolepowers aren't listed as accepted normal role modifiers.

[monk]

Ok, done with the reread. The claim seems okay, but there's one thing that's setting me off:

Out of curiousity, PanzThom, do you have daytalk capabilities?

Yes we have daytalk.

Pardon if this is just me speaking from inexperience with normal games, but I didn't know that Masons could have a Daytalk in Normal mafia. The wiki for the mason role states that masons communicate at night, and day-rolepowers aren't listed as accepted normal role modifiers.

It's not in the explicitly non-normal modifier list either, I think it's a fine thing considering other games

[monk]

EBWOP: I can understand the argument if it was a daycop we were questioning, but not really daytalkin' masons

by the by something that is rubbing me up the wrong way is I haven't really heard any talk of an investigator, no I don't want them to out themselves its just emp's claim is a bit weird considering, obviously there are a few reasons this might be:
1) we haven't suspected anyone long enough for them to want to out themselves
2) they haven't found anyone guilty and are investigating the wrong people anyway
3) emp's claim is bogus

[PJ.]

Good cops don't let people know they are cops. Good towns don't talk about cops until they need to.

[monk]

Good cops don't let people know they are cops. Good towns don't talk about cops until they need to.

Point taken I'll shut up now

[Heliman]

Ok, done with the reread. The claim seems okay, but there's one thing that's setting me off:

Out of curiousity, PanzThom, do you have daytalk capabilities?

Yes we have daytalk.

Pardon if this is just me speaking from inexperience with normal games, but I didn't know that Masons could have a Daytalk in Normal mafia. The wiki for the mason role states that masons communicate at night, and day-rolepowers aren't listed as accepted normal role modifiers.

It's not in the explicitly non-normal modifier list either, I think it's a fine thing considering other games

If that were the case, then wouldn't it be considered a new/variant role? Only one can be allowed in a Mini, and there are two claimed day masons.

[PJ.]

Ok, done with the reread. The claim seems okay, but there's one thing that's setting me off:

Out of curiousity, PanzThom, do you have daytalk capabilities?

Yes we have daytalk.

Pardon if this is just me speaking from inexperience with normal games, but I didn't know that Masons could have a Daytalk in Normal mafia. The wiki for the mason role states that masons communicate at night, and day-rolepowers aren't listed as accepted normal role modifiers.

It's not in the explicitly non-normal modifier list either, I think it's a fine thing considering other games

If that were the case, then wouldn't it be considered a new/variant role? Only one can be allowed in a Mini, and there are two claimed day masons.

Daytalking is relatively standard in my experiance with masons.

[Heliman]

You wouldn't happen to have any examples of that, would you? It'd be annoying for me to trawl for something that you've already dealt with in a past game.

[Hoppster]

With this in mind, and in my defense, the point that should be made is what is the scum motivation, intent, and benefit from being such a vocal player, advocating for lynches and fighting tooth and nail for lynches, and drawing incredible amounts of attention because of this? Furthermore, what is the scum benefit from continuing to push a lynch on someone who claimed mason unless I really believed it. Is that the sort of attention that a scum member would want?

This is an awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwful defence.
I have played vocally as scum.

I have played vocally as town.

It's not a tell either way.


However, defending yourself with "HERP DERP WHY WOULD SCUM BE SO VOCAL

AMIRITE????????

" is an unbelievably stupid defence.

As scum (in [REDACTED] - I've flipped) I have aggressively tunnelled on an un-CC'd cop. In a Large game, no less.

IT'S NOT A TOWN-TELL IN THE SLIGHTEST - I KNOW FROM FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE.


Your defence is WIFOM, and shitty WIFOM.

Hey, we were wrong to lynch SleepyKrew. He was just soooo scummy, never justifying his opportunistically timed votes...

BUT WHY WOULD SCUM DO THAT AND MAKE THEMSELVES SUCH OBVIOUS SCUM AMIRITEEEEEEE? SURELY SCUM WOULD WANT TO JUSTIFY THEIR VOTES MORE THAN TOWN SO THAT THEY WERE ABOVE SUSPICION!!111

OH NO WAIT HE WAS SCUM

WHOOOOOOOPS

I CAN'T BE SCUM, SCUM WOULD NEVER PLAY LIKE THIS

SRSLY GAIZ NO SCUM MOTIVATION I'M SUPER SRS

unvote, vote: The Fool

PJ & Thomith are very tempting, but if one is bad, they both are.

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

did you read xvart's defence?

And you didn't feel the bloodlust rising within you?

SCEPTICAL HOPPSTER IS SCEPTICAL

[Empking]

I'd prefer a TheFool lynch.

[xvart]

Daytalking is relatively standard in my experiance with masons.

In my experience I have never seen a day talking mason. I went through all the games in the current mini normal queue and didn't find one daytalking mason in a completed game. I went back to the archives and did some more looking with the same results:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p2896494
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p3118587
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p3182181
http://www.mafiascum.net/archive/viewto ... 651#p65651
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p2795116

Panzer

- No response to your obvious voting motivation failure in conjunction with flipped scum and your alleged inside knowledge? I can't say it enough: Based on everything Panzer has said at the time of his vote on Empking and all the alleged role information that he had that

he knew without a doubt that SleepyKrew was lying scum, yet voted someone else.

Hoppster

- I never said it was a

good

defense. It tied hand in hand with what I was saying with motivation and intent behind specific behaviors. I believe my behavior to be town motivated, in that I am advocating and trying to get scummy people lynched. I have yet to see anyone discuss my scum intent and motivations. Furthermore, if it is a null tell why does it fill you with bloodlust? And, if it is a null tell then what exactly am I being accused of doing?

The frustrating part is that Panzer

has a repeated pattern of scum motivated behavior

and is getting off because "ooohhh mason claim" despite

the claim itself being revealed in a scummy manner

in addition to

the claim directly contradicting things he said and his voting pattern

in his second post of the game. The fact that he has yet to provide a coherent response, let alone a response at all, is highly suspicious.

[monk]

The problem with the mason claim being false is it puts scums eggs into one basket, ie we can lynch both of them before we even get close to lylo

[xvart]

Let me get this straight: the thinking is to delay the lynching of Panzer, who knew SleepyKrew was scum and didn't vote for SleepyKrew because Panzer "liked" the Empking lynch "better", and for all practical purposes is scum beyond any sort of reasonable doubt, just because we aren't in LYLO yet?

[Twistedspoon]

Votecount 2.8

Did you know?: It's PBuG's Birthday today. Happy birthday PBuG

Monk(2) - PBuG, Panzerjager

Xvart(4) - Monk, Thefool, Hoppster, thomith
Panzerjager(1) - Xvart
Thefool(2) - empking, sundy

Not Voting (1): Heliman

With 10 Alive it takes 6 to lynch, 5 to no lynch.
The deadline is 13th July GMT 08:00[/b]

[/size]

Deadline is Friday, 08:00 GMT :0

[monk]

That's pretty much it except you're bloody scummy so we're taking you down first if scum are smart they could leave the masons alive I mean take 1175 for an example, just finished up and the masons stayed alive also as I said id rather lynch thomith if we had no other leads

[Heliman]

Actually I don't find Xvart that scummy. Judging by the last game I played with him, he tends towards becoming anxious and defensive when near a lynch.

I'm currently waiting on Panzar to provide an example of the day-masons that are apparently a standard in his experience. If he can't make an example, then he was lying to make his claim more believable in #961.

[Heliman]

Ninja edit, I forgot to add "as town" to the second sentence.

[PJ.]

I'd have to dive pretty far in the site archives to be honest, all but 3 of my games are 2 years old, but I know I've dealt with them before

[TheFool]

A bit of digging reveals a recent normal game where masons, neighbors, and mafia all had daytalk. So for what it's worth, daytalk at least isn't non-normal.

This conversation isn't incredibly productive a day and a half before deadline; enough people are against a mason lynch that it's not a feasible choice right now.

unvote, vote: The Fool

Why?

[Heliman]

Blast, so close to having scum out in the open. Oh well, GJ on sleuthing that one out Fool, the mason claim seems pretty effing acceptable with that in mind.