Mini 1179: Paranoia Mafia

[CooLDoG]

^are you voting for Umbridge? Mod needs to make more vote counts.

[ThAdmiral]

Thad doesn't say anything much before this post.

That's cause I had just replaced in...

For me it sounds like he wanted the free NK for his scum team. Reading the posts before he seems eager not to lynch LLD. I think that is because only 2 people are scum.

But if I was scum I would also have to worry about lld hitting a fellow scum.

Then he lists three people. Never says if he thinks they are scummy or not. He is fencesitting like hell there.

I'm not sure what you are referring to here.

@umbridge, Lets be honest, you aren't supporting the vezo lynch. Which lynches can you support?
@ta, same.

You and glass.

[Surye]

My weekend should be ending soon, and I will catch up tonight or first thing tomorrow.

[nopointinactingup]

er .. I don't like the Umbridge hate, hesitation is a scum tell these days?
I'll wait for Surye to post for an opinion on him
On the other hand,

Unvote:Vote:Thad[/b
Today, he seems to be just putting it out there and fence-sitting without caring to push for his reads. Very different from his last post when LLD was lynched.

[nopointinactingup]

vote:The Admiral

[ThAdmiral]

Wait how am I fence-sitting? I haven't budged from me scum-reads on cooldog and glass, and I haven't budged from saying vezok is a bad lynch.

[CooLDoG]

^well, for one thing you aren't pushing any of your reads. You are basically just dissenting without providing an alternative, just like umbridge. "Don't lynch him because of meta.", "I had a null read on that guy.", "Mumble about how x is actually pushing read (no vote)" , "We don't want to lynch him. Come on guys, surey is just as bad. Don't lynch my scum bud.".

@Nopoint, yeah if hatevoteing is a scum tell I'm guilty of it. I'm voting umbridge specifically because he never expresses who he wants to lynch, much like TA up there (although a few times TA has said that he would be willing to lynch me). Look at his answer to my question about "which lynch can you support?":

Which lynches can you support?

I seriously need to reread this game. A lot of the players are blurring together in my mind. I'll have a clearer view of things once I buckle down and get to work.

Translation: "Ohhh god no, don't ask me that. I don't have any scum reads n this game because I was never really looking for them. Let me go check who looks too town to lynch." Don't tell me that midway through d-3 after to failed wagons you have no fucking reads.

@Nopoint, vote for umbridge. He has been doing the exact same thing as TA except for worse. Lets get some pressure votes on him so that he actually contributes in stead of simply active lurking and saying that every lynch is bad. Also how did he know that there are only two scum? Look back around the start of d-3, was that a slip?

[CooLDoG]

Here is the post about no way there is 3 scum teams.

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Strongman

Since IS was killed with me jailkeeping him, there can only be 4 possibilities:

a) IS was killed by a strongman.
b) I was roleblocked.
c) I'm lying scum.
d) The mod is a bastard.

I think the mod said something about my JK having a chance to fail in the PM, so d) is entirely possible.

I am a VT as well. That leaves us with 3 confirmed VTs and 3 VT claims. If nobody's lying, there's no way that there's 3 scum. Town would need some heavy PRs to beat 3 mafia and an SK.

@MOD, post a vote count or I will PM the back up mod tomorrow, Thank you.

[Zodiark13]

Current Votes

Glass [L-5] -

CooLDoG [L-4] - ThAdmiral,

vezokpiraka [L-5] -

ThAdmiral [L-3] - vezokpiraka, nopointinactingup,

Umbrage [L-3] - Glass, CooLDoG,

Surye [L-4] - LobsterCatapult,

nopointinactingup [L-4] - Umbrage,

LobsterCatapult [L-5] -

Not Voting: Surye,

End of Current Day

(expired on 2011-07-18 16:00:00)

Other News

Calculating status is a very fiddly process, and, as such will be done in the next vote count.
Please bold any mod communication, including votes, V/LA notices etc.

[Umbrage]

Which lynches can you support?

I seriously need to reread this game. A lot of the players are blurring together in my mind. I'll have a clearer view of things once I buckle down and get to work.

Translation: I fine with lynching anybody,

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but not those two because they are my scum buds. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't lynch anybody until I make sure that they aren't thaaaat town so I don't look bad.

Also, are you saying that at this point in time you have absolutely no scum reads? Lot of help you are for the town.

Sick and tired of umbridges non-committal I don't want to lynch specific people attitude. I know I said I would be willing to lynch surey (in fact I still am), but Umbridge's recent play is pathetic.

unvote, vote: umbridge

Come up with those reads...

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

AND HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THERE ARE THREE SCUM??????????????

THREE SCUM & SK AGAINST ALL VANILLA TOWNIES?

SEEMS PRETTY UNLIKELY TO ME.

SCUM CAUGHT.

YES MORE UMBRAGE VOTES

He was pushing the hell out of me for being scum with his bs arguments and as soon as I call him out on them he completely ignores it and instead gets off me, probably hoping that I would wonder back onto cooldog after he got off of me. Not a chance in hell I am letting him off the hook that easily. I AM STILL WAITING ON WHAT THIS LIE WAS, IDC IF YOU THINK I AM TOWN, I WANT A RESPONSE.

If I was scum who wanted you lynched I would've gotten you lynched. Yes, my arguments were bullshit. I wanted a clearer read on you, and I got it.

I'm voting umbridge specifically because he never expresses who he wants to lynch

I believe the appropriate response in this kind of situation is LOLWUT?

Day 1 and Day 2 I was strongly committed to my wagons. I pushed for my scumreads and got them lynched. I don't display the same behaviour today and suddenly I'm scum? With vezok? If I was scum with vezok and somebody else, I forget who else you're saying my buddy is, but whatever, why wouldn't I sacrifice vezok? If I have two buddies, we're in lylo. I kill vezok today, gain a ton of towncred, win tomorrow. Or, I could've gotten you lynched, or Glass lynched. I can't possibly be buddies with all of you, now can I? This is why my former indecision is a null tell.

And guess what? Indecision in lylo is A TOWN TELL. It's SCUM that want to rush ahead and lynch someone. And that's you, CooLDoG. First Glass, then vezok, now me. And yet, you state you believe today is lylo. THIS IS NOT THE BEHAVIOUR OF A TOWNIE.

I'm really disappointed. First LLD, now CooLDoG. All my favourite people in this game are turning out to be evil scum I must kill.

VOTE: CooLDoG

[LobsterCatapult]

i think cooldog's case on umbrage is ill-thought out. although i was very unnerved about umbridge's 180 on his reads in the opening of d2, umbrage has been very vocal about his targets. d2 he tunnelled LLD, which imo, is the opposite of what cooldog is really getting at. though i think that umbrage. in fact, umbrage was borderline obnoxious trying to push me to hammer LLD, which in hindsight, was a good idea.

i think today, after umbrage was trying to figure out how IS got killed with his jk (which obviously is not proven), he resorted to his same tactics d2 against glass (after a brief vote on vezok).

the problem i have with umbrage, however, his is fluctuating stance on vezok.

VOTE: vezokpiraka

I've had just about enough of this. You're sheeping onto every single wagon you see. Don't you dare try and pull the VI card either. I know your town meta and that's to stick with a wagon even if nobody else is on it. You are stubborn as town, not indecisive.

I don't really see any reason to lynch vezok over Surye.

@ Everyone on vezokpiraka: Your arguments against vezok are things vezok always does. Sure, you can make the argument that that isn't an excuse, I'm with you on that. But it's still not a substitute for scumhunting.

i understand the fact that cooldog may have been flinging mud at vezok to see what sticks, but i dont understand, umbrage, how you changed your stance on vezok so staunchly from saying that his play is so different from what you usually see(as town), to his play being the same thing he does is suspect.

fos:umbrage

(at umbrage, im not sure if your slip on cooldog is a slip. ill think about cooldog later)

as much as i like vote for nopoint, i dont understand his reasons for doing so.

@nopoint, why the vote change from cooldog to thad?

this: is a stronger scum case

naw guys, scum vezo talks way more than this ( I've played in a 2 games with vezo as scum so trust me )
Scumdog's just trying to mislead ppl

than this:

er .. I don't like the Umbridge hate, hesitation is a scum tell these days?
I'll wait for Surye to post for an opinion on him
On the other hand,

Unvote:Vote:Thad

Today, he seems to be just putting it out there and fence-sitting without caring to push for his reads. Very different from his last post when LLD was lynched.

why did you move your vote from cooldog (who was pushing the umbrage hate) to thad? this doesnt make any sense to me. misleading people is clearly anti-town. thad hasn't really done a lot of fencesitting, im not seeing thad as a strong town read, but you moving your vote to thad, when you had a much stronger stance on cooldog is disconcerting.

unvote
vote:nopoint

dont worry surye, i still dont think youre town.

[ThAdmiral]

Can we come to some sort of consensus here guys?

[Umbrage]

i understand the fact that cooldog may have been flinging mud at vezok to see what sticks, but i dont understand, umbrage, how you changed your stance on vezok so staunchly from saying that his play is so different from what you usually see(as town), to his play being the same thing he does is suspect.

Total gut instinct. I thought vezok was scummy for jumping on the CD wagon, then I got distracted with Glass, and when I looked at him again there was a wagon on him. Something about that seemed off, it was too easy. It was a total gut reaction that made me back off vezok, and it ended up catching scum.

Can we come to some sort of consensus here guys?

CooLDoG is scum. Only scum would push so hard for a lynch all day. Especially since he slipped and revealed this was lylo. Regardless of your stance on the lylo debate, CD thinks today is lylo, so we're going under the assumption that it is lylo/mylo for this post.

First he tried getting a wagon on Glass, but abandoned that idea when I jumped off. Knowing that thus far, the wagon I'm on is the wagon that goes through to completion, he attacked vezok, my primary suspect. But that didn't work either, I changed my mind on vezok. Once he realized I wasn't going to push a lynch anytime soon, he decided that the only quicklynch he could get was my own.

As long as I pushed on Glass and vezok, I was useful to him, but when I said I had no good scumreads, suddenly I'm a suspect.

[vezokpiraka]

unvote
vote cdog

I think this is the scum that we should lynch today.

[CooLDoG]

Umridge, how did you know there are 2 scum I have a link from a game that has sk three scum. Also, we are not all vanilla townies, I have a vote block and a roleblock. That's not a pure vanilla game...
I don't have much time right now (I usually do) so I can't refute all of your points, but let me say this, you need to show me all of your reads. You seem to know for a fact that there are two scum 1 sk and the rest are vt, who are on the scum team?

@LC, vote for umbridge, I can already see the potential of him cracking under pressure.

@ninja vezo, nice reasons there pal.

[CooLDoG]

I'm back. Now lets get into this. Wall warning. This time there will be NO summary at the end (sorry vezo/surye, you are gonna have to read it this time )

Which lynches can you support?

I seriously need to reread this game. A lot of the players are blurring together in my mind. I'll have a clearer view of things once I buckle down and get to work.

Translation: I fine with lynching anybody,

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but not those two because they are my scum buds. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't lynch anybody until I make sure that they aren't thaaaat town so I don't look bad.

Also, are you saying that at this point in time you have absolutely no scum reads? Lot of help you are for the town.

Sick and tired of umbridges non-committal I don't want to lynch specific people attitude. I know I said I would be willing to lynch surey (in fact I still am), but Umbridge's recent play is pathetic.

unvote, vote: umbridge

Come up with those reads...

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

AND HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THERE ARE THREE SCUM??????????????

THREE SCUM & SK AGAINST ALL VANILLA TOWNIES?

SEEMS PRETTY UNLIKELY TO ME.

SCUM CAUGHT.

Link goes here: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17498 This is actually a mini normal that just ended recently (a mini normal, hear that? NORMAL, not themed.) Three mafia (two goons, one roleblocker). 1 sk. A jailkeeper, a watcher and a tracker. Both you and I supposedly have jailkeeping abilities. That's equivalent to two doc saves, or two role blocks. Don't tell me that's not balanced. I also always assume three scum (read back to the start of this day. Read back to when we started number crunching stuff in day1. Always assume three scum.)

YES MORE UMBRAGE VOTES

He was pushing the hell out of me for being scum with his bs arguments and as soon as I call him out on them he completely ignores it and instead gets off me, probably hoping that I would wonder back onto cooldog after he got off of me. Not a chance in hell I am letting him off the hook that easily. I AM STILL WAITING ON WHAT THIS LIE WAS, IDC IF YOU THINK I AM TOWN, I WANT A RESPONSE.

If I was scum who wanted you lynched I would've gotten you lynched. Yes, my arguments were bullshit. I wanted a clearer read on you, and I got it.

I'm voting umbridge specifically because he never expresses who he wants to lynch

I believe the appropriate response in this kind of situation is LOLWUT?

Day 1 and Day 2 I was strongly committed to my wagons. I pushed for my scumreads and got them lynched. I don't display the same behaviour today and suddenly I'm scum?

Both of witch flipped non-scum (weak, yet pertinent). And yes having no reads on day-3 is very very scummy. Have you run out of marginally scummy people to lynch? Don't tell me that you don't have any scum reads at d-3... fence sitting is always a scum tell.

With vezok? If I was scum with vezok and somebody else, I forget who else you're saying my buddy is, but whatever, why wouldn't I sacrifice vezok? If I have two buddies, we're in lylo.

So you are going to gain monster town credit for lynching a lurker on d-3? You could quite possibly be keeping vezok around to lynch him tomorrow when it really is lylo, remember how you mystically plucked out a 2-man scum team from thin air? Also, assuming you have a two man scum team (sense you are sooo sure about it...) if vezok is scum then you will be down to one man, a 1/5. Not looking good for you now is it?

I kill vezok today, gain a ton of towncred, win tomorrow. Or, I could've gotten you lynched, or Glass lynched. I can't possibly be buddies with all of you, now can I? This is why my former indecision is a null tell.

If I'm correct it would be a 2/4 tomorrow. So at some point you are going to have to go on one of those bandwagons that you out right refuse to join.

And guess what? Indecision in lylo is A TOWN TELL. It's SCUM that want to rush ahead and lynch someone. And that's you, CooLDoG. First Glass, then vezok, now me. And yet, you state you believe today is lylo. THIS IS NOT THE BEHAVIOUR OF A TOWNIE.

How is this lylo? You yourself said that we have 2-man scum teams. How can you be wrong? The setup would be so unbalanced, like this other mini-normal... http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17276 holy shit it had 4 mafia and now town pr, and the town still won. Show me proof that this isn't lylo and that you are right about 2 man scum teams.

I'm really disappointed. First LLD, now CooLDoG.

All my favourite

people in this game are turning out to be evil scum I must kill.

VOTE: CooLDoG

Wow, this player list must really be bad if I'm one of your favorates .

Post number two...

i understand the fact that cooldog may have been flinging mud at vezok to see what sticks, but i dont understand, umbrage, how you changed your stance on vezok so staunchly from saying that his play is so different from what you usually see(as town), to his play being the same thing he does is suspect.

Total gut instinct. I thought vezok was scummy for jumping on the CD wagon, then I got distracted with Glass, and when I looked at him again there was a wagon on him. Something about that seemed off, it was too easy. It was a total gut reaction that made me back off vezok, and it ended up catching scum.

SO you are basing a players scumminess based off of who is on his or her wagon alone? Because that's what your read is, "Wagon built up fast with slightly town to slightly scummy reads, ohh man, vezok has got to be town for sure."

Can we come to some sort of consensus here guys?

CooLDoG is scum. Only scum would push so hard for a lynch all day. Especially since he slipped and revealed this was lylo. Regardless of your stance on the lylo debate, CD thinks today is lylo, so we're going under the assumption that it is lylo/mylo for this post.

SO pushing hard for a lynch is a scum tell now, lets see, you did that here, here, here, and here. That last one was in "lylo"

First he tried getting a wagon on Glass, but abandoned that idea when I jumped off. Knowing that thus far, the wagon I'm on is the wagon that goes through to completion, he attacked vezok, my primary suspect. But that didn't work either, I changed my mind on vezok. Once he realized I wasn't going to push a lynch anytime soon, he decided that the only quicklynch he could get was my own.

As long as I pushed on Glass and vezok, I was useful to him, but when I said I had no good scumreads, suddenly I'm a suspect.

Your damn right about one thing, the glass and vezok lynch ain't going anywhere. That's partly because of non-commital people like you. Get a list of reads and vote for them, no wishy washy shit like you pulled on vezok back there.

Why are there two scum and not three? Answer me that. Show me statistics that shows that this setup is unbalanced with 3 scums, an sk, and 2 JKs (and possibly more due to this fucked-up mechanic).

That is all have a nice day.

I finally got url tags to work! woop woop!

@mod, I'm pretty sure I got all the tags right on the above. If something screws up (it shouldn't) then be ready to fix it...

[Umbrage]

Link goes here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17498 This is actually a mini normal that just ended recently (a mini normal, hear that? NORMAL, not themed.) Three mafia (two goons, one roleblocker). 1 sk. A jailkeeper, a watcher and a tracker. Both you and I supposedly have jailkeeping abilities. That's equivalent to two doc saves, or two role blocks. Don't tell me that's not balanced. I also always assume three scum (read back to the start of this day. Read back to when we started number crunching stuff in day1. Always assume three scum.)

No.

A jailkeeper, a watcher, and a tracker together is a REALLY fucking powerful combo. We only have fucking VTs that OCCASIONALLY and PUBLICALLY gain ONE-SHOT abilities that can FAIL. There is no comparison.

But this is all beside the point. I've GIVEN my reasoning as to why there are likely two scum. You didn't say "hey, there could be 3 scum". You said I had 2 buddies. That's not speculation, that's scum knowledge. You say I'm wrong in assuming 2 scum, but you assume there are 3 scum.

Therefore, either you have knowledge that there's 3 scum, or you're full of shit. Which is it?

Both of witch flipped non-scum (weak, yet pertinent). And yes having no reads on day-3 is very very scummy. Have you run out of marginally scummy people to lynch? Don't tell me that you don't have any scum reads at d-3... fence sitting is always a scum tell.

HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHA

OK, never mind my last question, you're clearly full of shit.

1) If you're right, and there's 3 scum left, then today is mylo.

2) In mylo, you either no-lynch, or you be really REALLY fucking sure of your lynch choice.

3) Therefore, it is pro-town to be careful about lynches today, following YOUR OWN DAMN LOGIC.

I challenge you to get ONE experienced mafia player to say that indecisiveness or fence-sitting is always anti-town. I challenge you to get ONE experienced mafia player to say that taking your time in mylo is a bad thing.

So you are going to gain monster town credit for lynching a lurker on d-3? You could quite possibly be keeping vezok around to lynch him tomorrow when it really is lylo, remember how you mystically plucked out a 2-man scum team from thin air? Also, assuming you have a two man scum team (sense you are sooo sure about it...) if vezok is scum then you will be down to one man, a 1/5. Not looking good for you now is it?

So now me being scum only makes sense if there's a 2-man scumteam? Even though you're SOOO SURE there's a 3-man scumteam?

OK, let's say vezok and I are scum. Why didn't I try and get you lynched earlier? Why didn't I keep pushing on Glass? That lynch was all set when I backed off. Why would I do that?

Congratulations, you just buried yourself. Good game.

If I'm correct it would be a 2/4 tomorrow. So at some point you are going to have to go on one of those bandwagons that you out right refuse to join.

And now he desperately tries to misrep in order to save himself. Quote me refusing to join any wagon today Mr. Big Mouth. (HINT: this is going to be the part of the post CooLDoG doesn't respond to.)

How is this lylo? You yourself said that we have 2-man scum teams. How can you be wrong? The setup would be so unbalanced, like this other mini-normal... viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17276 holy shit it had 4 mafia and now town pr, and the town still won. Show me proof that this isn't lylo and that you are right about 2 man scum teams.

Yeah, at first I thought it was a 2-man mafia team, but you're the scum, so you'd be the one to know.

SO you are basing a players scumminess based off of who is on his or her wagon alone? Because that's what your read is, "Wagon built up fast with slightly town to slightly scummy reads, ohh man, vezok has got to be town for sure."

As I said, it was a total gut instinct, which turned out to be the right move.

SO pushing hard for a lynch is a scum tell now, lets see, you did that here, here, here, and here. That last one was in "lylo"

OH, SO NOW I'M PUSHING HARD FOR LYNCHES, AM I? I THOUGHT I WAS FENCE-SITTING. MAKE UP YOUR MIND, SCUM.

Your damn right about one thing, the glass and vezok lynch ain't going anywhere. That's partly because of non-commital people like you. Get a list of reads and vote for them, no wishy washy shit like you pulled on vezok back there.

What is this I don't even.

Why are there two scum and not three? Answer me that. Show me statistics that shows that this setup is unbalanced with 3 scums, an sk, and 2 JKs (and possibly more due to this fucked-up mechanic).

And this is called

distraction

. Here, CooLDoG realizes that he slipped up and revealed he knew how many scum there were. So he tries to cover it up by pretending I said there were definitely 2 scum. Of course, if I really did slip up like that, CooLDoG would've pointed it out a long time ago instead of trying to sic me on Glass. He even tries to goad me into saying that there are 2 scum. Sadly, I'm not going to be tricked. And CooLDoG is about to learn that you can't use scumtells in a case retroactively without showing you're scum yourself.

[nopointinactingup]

@Dog: I didn't say HATEVOTING is guilty, but voting for BAD REASONS is
@ThAd: Then why aren't you pushing for your reads?
I think it's clear who the lynch should be

unvote.Vote:Scumdog

@LC: My vote and suspicion has been on CoolDog since the beginning of this game and needless to say, I'm tired of it going unanswered. It didn't gather enough support so I wanted to use my vote to actually be productive. I don't see the wrong in not voting your biggest suspect. In fact, you are clearly doing it

[LobsterCatapult]

is cdog at L-1?

[ThAdmiral]

@ThAd: Then why aren't you pushing for your reads?

Well right now my main suspect is the lynch leader, so I feel it would just be adding insult to injury if I brought forward a fresh case now.

[Umbrage]

Yes, that's L-1. ThAdmiral, myself, vezok, and nopoint are on CooLDoG. Come on LC, join the townie team! We're the best team.

[CooLDoG]

You guys already know what I am. I'm a vote blocking jail keeper. Now getting on to Umridge's posts.

[CooLDoG]

Link goes here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17498 This is actually a mini normal that just ended recently (a mini normal, hear that? NORMAL, not themed.) Three mafia (two goons, one roleblocker). 1 sk. A jailkeeper, a watcher and a tracker. Both you and I supposedly have jailkeeping abilities. That's equivalent to two doc saves, or two role blocks. Don't tell me that's not balanced. I also always assume three scum (read back to the start of this day. Read back to when we started number crunching stuff in day1. Always assume three scum.)

No.

A jailkeeper, a watcher, and a tracker together is a REALLY fucking powerful combo. We only have fucking VTs that OCCASIONALLY and PUBLICALLY gain ONE-SHOT abilities that can FAIL. There is no comparison.[/qupte]
And three jks aren't? Remember IS said he got jk role too. He got up to the same "status" as both of us. That's thee fucking doctors.

But this is all beside the point. I've GIVEN my reasoning as to why there are likely two scum. You didn't say "hey, there could be 3 scum". You said I had 2 buddies. That's not speculation, that's scum knowledge. You say I'm wrong in assuming 2 scum, but you assume there are 3 scum.

Interprite how you will. All that I'm saying is that we could be dealing with a possible mylo situation here. I said that at the start of the day. How you were able to convince the town otherwise is beyond me.

[quote"umbridge"]Therefore, either you have knowledge that there's 3 scum, or you're full of shit. Which is it?

The latter . I'm just saying that this could possibly be mylo, and with you pushing so hard for a 2-man scum team it would be a fucking good fit for you to have this not at mylo.

Both of witch flipped non-scum (weak, yet pertinent). And yes having no reads on day-3 is very very scummy. Have you run out of marginally scummy people to lynch? Don't tell me that you don't have any scum reads at d-3... fence sitting is always a scum tell.

HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHA

OK, never mind my last question, you're clearly full of shit.

1) If you're right, and there's 3 scum left, then today is mylo.

2) In mylo, you either no-lynch, or you be really REALLY fucking sure of your lynch choice.

3) Therefore, it is pro-town to be careful about lynches today, following YOUR OWN DAMN LOGIC.

Careful =/= to fince setting not having reads. You always come into a day having reads. Not having those reads means you are ridiculously bad (you aren't) or that you are contemplating who you can get away with lynching. It has nothing to do with mylo because you still think there are 2-man scum teams at this point. So you have no reads in a non-lylo situation, explain.

I challenge you to get ONE experienced mafia player to say that indecisiveness or fence-sitting is always anti-town. I challenge you to get ONE experienced mafia player to say that taking your time in mylo is a bad thing.

I may not be able to find one who will agree in every case, but I will be able to find a whole bunch who will say going into day-3 (lylo or not) you should have at least 1 scum read.

So you are going to gain monster town credit for lynching a lurker on d-3? You could quite possibly be keeping vezok around to lynch him tomorrow when it really is lylo, remember how you mystically plucked out a 2-man scum team from thin air? Also, assuming you have a two man scum team (sense you are sooo sure about it...) if vezok is scum then you will be down to one man, a 1/5. Not looking good for you now is it?

So now me being scum only makes sense if there's a 2-man scumteam? Even though you're SOOO SURE there's a 3-man scumteam?

you are misunderstanding my point about the three man scum team. The three man scum team is a possibility which you refuse to consider, you always pass it off as being unbalanced and other set-up wifom bullshit. I'm just concerned that this could be a mylo situation. Natuarly you persuaded all of the town (including me for a time) that there was a two man scum team. All that I'm saying is don't count out there being a three man scum team and this being mylo. Most likly there is a two man scum team, but you have to be prudent. And someone convincing the town in a possible mylo situation (and avidly pushing) a 2-man scum team idea reeks of scum. You yourself said to be cautious in a lylo situation, why don't you assume the worst?

[quote="umbridge"OK, let's say vezok and I are scum. Why didn't I try and get you lynched earlier? Why didn't I keep pushing on Glass? That lynch was all set when I backed off. Why would I do that?

Congratulations, you just buried yourself. Good game.[/quote]
Because I pushed hard for a correct lynch on d-2. LLD was such an easy target for scum. And d-1 was full of scum shit with the occult lynch. You simply didn't have the time.

If I'm correct it would be a 2/4 tomorrow. So at some point you are going to have to go on one of those bandwagons that you out right refuse to join.

And now he desperately tries to misrep in order to save himself. Quote me refusing to join any wagon today Mr. Big Mouth. (HINT: this is going to be the part of the post CooLDoG doesn't respond to.)

I'm afraid I am going to find one. Very quickly actually...
Other posts:

Admittedly, I haven't played with vezok where he's been scum, but ThAdmiral's scum meta on him sounds a hell of a lot like what his town meta has been from my experience with him.

I don't really see any reason to lynch vezok over Surye.

@ Everyone on vezokpiraka: Your arguments against vezok are things vezok always does. Sure, you can make the argument that that isn't an excuse, I'm with you on that. But it's still not a substitute for scumhunting.

Basically, you have a bunch of nulltells. Now, assuming every other player is null for you, then sure, lynch vezok because he's not valuable to the town and is next to impossible to read as scum anyway. I don't have a problem with that line of reasoning. What I don't like is how you're pushing vezok while ignoring everyone else. Why are you pushing a case full of nulltells? Is there nobody else in the game that you have suspicion on?

Today, more than anything, we need content. A lot of it. And that means scumhunting. Arguing back and forth. Vezok isn't going to contribute to that no matter how much you push him. Sure, he could flip scum, but he could also flip town, and either way we'd be right back where we started today. He's an easy cop-out lynch, and pushing for it is scummy as hell.

Again, I'm not opposed to a vezok lynch today. I'm opposed to his lynch being our first choice.

...Continuing on...

How is this lylo? You yourself said that we have 2-man scum teams. How can you be wrong? The setup would be so unbalanced, like this other mini-normal... viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17276 holy shit it had 4 mafia and now town pr, and the town still won. Show me proof that this isn't lylo and that you are right about 2 man scum teams.

Yeah, at first I thought it was a 2-man mafia team, but you're the scum, so you'd be the one to know.

SO you are basing a players scumminess based off of who is on his or her wagon alone? Because that's what your read is, "Wagon built up fast with slightly town to slightly scummy reads, ohh man, vezok has got to be town for sure."

As I said, it was a total gut instinct, which turned out to be the right move.

Nope its not total gut quote is here:

Total gut instinct.

I thought vezok was scummy for jumping on the CD wagon

, then I got distracted with Glass, and when

I looked at him again there was a wagon on him. Something about that seemed off, it was too easy.

It was a total gut reaction that made me back off vezok, and it ended up catching scum.

You say this is gut, but the italics show that there is more going on there. You actually have reasons, you just aren't willing to fully display thim. Atleast that's the read I'm getting.

SO pushing hard for a lynch is a scum tell now, lets see, you did that here, here, here, and here. That last one was in "lylo"

OH, SO NOW I'M PUSHING HARD FOR LYNCHES, AM I? I THOUGHT I WAS FENCE-SITTING. MAKE UP YOUR MIND, SCUM.

Yeah you push hard for two lynches and then you stop doing anything on d-3 no mylo. You don't have any reads after two full days of content and you refuse to jump on a wagon in non-mylo. THAT'S fince setting. Especially after you pushed hard for two non-scum lynches. That action you yourself said was scummy.

Your damn right about one thing, the glass and vezok lynch ain't going anywhere. That's partly because of non-commital people like you. Get a list of reads and vote for them, no wishy washy shit like you pulled on vezok back there.

What is this I don't even.

Simply that the vezok and glass wagon stopped. Nothing moved. No body wanted to even add pressure to them. SOme of those people are glass vezok and you....

Why are there two scum and not three? Answer me that. Show me statistics that shows that this setup is unbalanced with 3 scums, an sk, and 2 JKs (and possibly more due to this fucked-up mechanic).

And this is called

distraction

. Here, CooLDoG realizes that he slipped up and revealed he knew how many scum there were. So he tries to cover it up by pretending I said there were definitely 2 scum. Of course, if I really did slip up like that, CooLDoG would've pointed it out a long time ago instead of trying to sic me on Glass. He even tries to goad me into saying that there are 2 scum. Sadly, I'm not going to be tricked. And CooLDoG is about to learn that you can't use scumtells in a case retroactively without showing you're scum yourself.

Link goes here:

My point stands then. There's no way there are 3 mafia and an SK against all VTs.

I'm going to ISO LC, see if I still find her scummy with LLD flipping SK.

Ohh, ohh shit. You just said there aren't three scum. Well we assume you are saying 2 scum. No?

All in all I don't care if I get lynched. Umbridge played an A+ scum game. Good job guys. Maybe there are only 2 scum and you guys will get lucky. Or you guys will have to lynch umbridge tomorrow and then glass or vezok.

[Zodiark13]

Warning: A player is at L-1. Please be careful with your votes.

Current Votes

Glass [L-5] -

CooLDoG [L-1] - ThAdmiral, Umbrage, vezokpiraka, nopointinactingup,

vezokpiraka [L-5] -

ThAdmiral [L-5] -

Umbrage [L-3] - Glass, CooLDoG,

Surye [L-5] -

nopointinactingup [L-4] - LobsterCatapult,

LobsterCatapult [L-5] -

Not Voting: Surye,

End of Current Day

(expired on 2011-07-18 16:00:00)

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Please bold any mod communication, including votes, V/LA notices etc.

[Surye]

Waiting for statuses to comment on my thoughts (as yes, they will effect them).