Mini 1195: The Beehive Mystery (GAME OVER)

[Beck]

I need to make a case on a leaning scum vibe? Not really

I'm not voting you right now so no need wasting time making a case

[Llamarble]

Benefit to 2 big wagons is that if one is on scum and the other is on town we have wagon vs counterwagon to pick scum off of.

[subgenius]

Not sure if that theory works when the two wagons are artificially built as a result of a plan. If the two wagons are naturally occurring, I'd agree with this, but this wouldn't be the situation if Magic's plan was enacted.

[Klazam]

Scott Brosius replaces Da Koolzzy. Thanks!

[subgenius]

Ah nice. In my last game, Scott replaced in and nailed two scum almost immediately. Hopefully he can do the same here.

[Beck]

ugh, I have to look at that horrible avatar?

can we turn off avatars?

[Scott Brosius]

Replacing in as promised.

I don't read very thoroughly when replacing in. I will read D2 stuff, not really anything from D1 especially without a scum flip.

Anything completely important (role claims, people currently at L-1, etc) that I need to know right now?

[Tommy]

How can the first of these statements possibly be taken to mean the second?

were not really guna get a lynch on someone being replaced anyway.

Subs, yeah i agree with you lol, thats what i meant, i would want to hear from the replacement before lynching them.

I think rblinker's behaviour is becoming rather fishy.

I need to make a case on a leaning scum vibe? Not really

It would be helpful if you gave your reasons.

Welcome, Scott Brosius. Yes, you should take a look at YankCane's claim post, which outs a list of players as non-masons.

[rblinker123]

Tommy, I said we werent guna get a lynch because we would want to hear from the replacement before lynching them, i didnt take into account the time, and stupidly just assumed that the replacement wouldnt be here till after the lynch. It was stupid that i did that but it happened.

Also, i probably wont post until about 20 hours from now, hopefully if i have time i might get a post in on my phone but im not sure i will.

[Beck]

it's hard to put into words exactly what it is about subsy, it's just the things he has said in the past few pages and the vote changes don't really sit well.

615 and 718 I don't like either of those posts
Joins the Archo wagon really late even after originally arguing that SK was the better lynch target because of the buddying
511 he just follows ivan's request
than he sort of just blends in agreeing with a jilly or kool lynch
and because koolzy is being replaced he decides the jilly wagon isn't good anymore and votes Ivan?

something just doesn't make sense, nothing is cohesive and he seems to be trying to appease everyone.

[subgenius]

Why do people always start calling me 'Subsy' when they think I'm scum? It's quite irritating.

Anyhow, I'll address your points.

--615/718: You're entitled to your opinion, but I can't really say much unless you're more specific.
--Late join of the Archo wagon: I might not have been voting for Archo, but I was pressuring the hell out of him for the majority of the day. I would have been happy lynching either one, but Arco was the one that had a wagon form on him, so I joined it. My suspicions of Arco should have been abundantly clear long before I cast that vote.
--511: I don't like the game stagnating, and at that point, that's what I felt was happening. Sometimes I'll make a move just to stir things up.
--Agreeing with Jily or Kool lynch: You're not reading this correctly. I agreed to your plan to pressure the lurkers. I did not agree to blindly build a wagon until a lynch took place.
--Deciding Jily wagon isn't good anymore: Again, read more carefully, Koolzy being replaced has nothing to do with my concerns on the Jily wagon. My concern with the Jily wagon is that it doesn't require any further scum hunting, and it feels like we're just settling on the easiest lynch.

Two questions for you Beck.
1)Earlier you wrote:

i'm not suggesting [Jilynne] be lynched just yet, but putting her at L-2 isn't a bad idea right now.

Now you seem to be voting for lynching rather than pressure. Is this true, and what changed your mind?
2)Why do you now think Ivan is town?

People seem to be shifting to a town read on Ivan, and it utterly baffles me.

[Beck]

oh sorry, not sure why I called you subsy


what changed about Jilly is when she basically came in here and elluded to the fact that she isn't really going to do or say anything. I'm not suggesting she be lynched or hammered (she is still at L-2 since you un-voted) but she hasn't been back since being at L-1/L-2 iirc.

I want to see what she has to say now that she is closer to a lynch.

where did you get the impression I think ivan is town, I think it is odd that you were following his orders when he told you to vote greymarble, and now all of a sudden you vote him. Why the 180?

I appreciate your explanations, I personally am not buying them atm. but I am not declaring you be lynched, right now I want the Koolzy and Jilly spots to participate and that is my only motivation.

we have plenty of time with this super long deadline, I am in no rush to have her lynched right now.

I still want her to post to the links where she is town like was asked
I still want her to provide HER reads on who she thinks is scum

but remember, her slot is the SK slot and that slot was OBVSCUM day 1 and the Acro town flip just made it more obvious.

[Scott Brosius]

YankCane151 (5)- Greymarble, ICEninja, Beck, Subgenius, Acronach

When Yank claimed (wasn't at L-1 actually)

Acronach (7) – ConfidAnon, ICEninja, Captain Spoon, Beck, Subgenius, rblinker123, Greymarble,


My vote will be on one of these characters. ICENinja, Beck, Subgenius, Greymarble. And three of them were on the no mason list with Subgenius which I think is where we should be lynching today.

Going to peruse D2 with these thoughts in mind.

[subgenius]

where did you get the impression I think ivan is town

Post 567

yeah, as much as it pains me to admit it, Ivan is becoming more and more of a town read, I really just want to bang my head against a brick wall than admit it is true.

You never did explain that statement.

I think it is odd that you were following his orders when he told you to vote greymarble, and now all of a sudden you vote him. Why the 180?

I had a neutral read on Ivan at that time, but I happened to agree with him that Grey's behavior was pretty scummy. My opinion of Ivan has only declined since then. It wasn't a 180, more like a 90.

[Beck]

lol, I guess I did call him town, I'll have to re-read as to why

Why did you flip on Ivan, what changed your mind

[Beck]

The reason why I feel he is town is his play is so anti-town, I don't feel them as mafia would play like that, plus they'd make sure to keep their reads on people to not draw attention to themselves.

[Scott Brosius]

Lynching someone I KNOW is town is worse than lynching someone I THINK is town.
My wagon was the only one other than Acro's with a reasonable chance of lynching. (2 already on me and others expressing interest)
In 1v1, you vote the other guy. End of story.
See Dilemma mafia for another game where I lynched somebody I was convinced was town because they weren't me.

If as someone mentioned you were 6 days out from deadline, this is completely false. And in the past, both parts of I guess the hydra at the time appear to be reasonable due to modding/past games. This is a lame excuse to me.

ConfidAnon is cruising in this game. Had his vote on Acro the entirety of D1. MT has improved the slot however.

jil is most likely town. Unprovoked VT claims never seem to have any chance of scum motivations. Useless, but town.

I have no idea how to read Ivan but....

The reason why I feel he is town is his play is so anti-town, I don't feel them as mafia would play like that, plus they'd make sure to keep their reads on people to not draw attention to themselves.

Don't fall for the "too scummy to be scum" argument.

In terms of my three VC suspects...

Ice seems to be prodding activity posting content as I remember him doing as town. Leaning town.

Beck exhibiting similar behavior.

That leaves Llamarble.

Unvote
Vote: Llamarble

We must lynch from the non-mason list. Based on my previous reads, I obviously like my current vote. I would be fine with Ivan as well, although that's more of a "we're going to have to deal with at some point because if he's town, scum will never kill him" lynch. I much prefer the former.

[Beck]

If it was later in the game, the scum to scummy would be thrown out, but day 2, he can dangle and hopefully do something that confirms him one way or the other

[Magic Trainer]

unvote

More later. But this should get pretty fun now. I wish Ice would post more btw.

[Scott Brosius]

If it was later in the game, the scum to scummy would be thrown out, but day 2, he can dangle and hopefully do something that confirms him one way or the other

Not really sure what you are saying here.

[Beck]

If it was later in the game, the scum to scummy would be thrown out, but day 2, he can dangle and hopefully do something that confirms him one way or the other

Not really sure what you are saying here.

you told me not to fall for the "scummy too scummy thing"

basically it's day 2, he can be ignored for now and it gives him more posts to compare if he happens to be alive later in the game and we are un-sure

but he isn't a good candidate for a lynch today in my opinion.

yes I realize his scummy behavior can be an act, but coming from a guy who is accused of being scummy in every game, I feel we can let him slide a day or 2 and hopefully be investigated or whatever.

I need to re-read marble tomorrow, idk what to do about jilly

[subgenius]

Why did you flip on Ivan, what changed your mind

I think the period of time where he did nothing but post sarcastic one liners plus realizing that he hasn't come up with any new scum reads since yesterday.

[Ivan the Pleasant]

We are still confident in our reads. Are you suggesting we manufacture reads so that you can feel better about how townie we're being?

[subgenius]

Are you suggesting we manufacture reads so that you can feel better about how townie we're being?

That's pretty much what I'm suggesting. I'm not seeing any authenticity in your reads. Either you're being lazy about scum hunting or you're scum. Since there are two of you, and you've maintained a pretty decent post rate, I'm thinking you've had plenty of time to come up with scum reads that make more sense and act upon them. You haven't, so I'm thinking you're scum.

@Beck
Your position on Ivan isn't really making sense right now. You said you were leaning town on Ivan as recently as post 740, but as soon as Scott called you on using the "too scummy to be scum" argument, you changed your stance to saying Ivan is actually scummy, but he just shouldn't be lynched today, which seems like more of a neutral read at best. I'm not quite sure what to make of the inconsistency, but the town read followed by a quick retreat seems strange to me. I don't quite understand how you can say someone looks town in one post and then say we can lynch them later an hour and half afterwards.

[Llamarble]

Grey never actually posted this game, so all our hydra's posting was me.

Jilynne's unprompted VT claim bothers me. I don't disagree those are usually town. But look at EVERYTHING ELSE.
I suppose she read or played a game where she saw somebody claimed VT and got called town and thought "Huh, I could get away with that."
Or maybe it was just a whim or something. But SK was scum. His thought process toward Yank makes NO sense.

And my hammer D1 was a PRACTICAL DECISION. I saw a lynch I didn't like and said I thought the lynchee was town.
Reactions were "Nah I am pretty much going to keep my vote stuck here unless I decide to move it to Grey."
I decided I was unlikely to secure a better lynch and that if I didn't hammer I would probably end up with the same lynch or worse, so I took the opportunity and hammered before the people on his wagon who were considering moving to me had a chance to do so.