TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win

[PeregrineV]

You can't be him because My Name Is....

Wait a minute. I see what you did there.

Vote: Zinger

!

Ok, so no comment on ANYTHING else going on in the game?

Actually, you're doing a slamdunk job ATM. Vifam might be scum, but the response sounds like it would be from town also. But, that's probably because I'm soft-hearted.

Jily got Snarky, which is the first time in 5 games or so. So either she's growing some

cojones

through experience, or she's more confident because she has "team" to back her up.

Bad vibes from DavidX, because while it's OK to follow up a joke vote with a joke question, you throw in real questions to. Not continue the joke past that unless it's netted you some other information.

[David Xanatos]

Why, when those questions which needed to be asked are being asked anyway? I have limited time at the computer at times, so I'd be unable to ask followup questions or respond to points without a moderate to significant delay. (In Mafia terms of course. 1-2 days real time at the longest, but given the pace of the thread is subject to fluctuation, it could be long forgotten by the time I respond.)

[killerjester]

Vifam might be scum, but the response sounds like it would be from town also. But, that's probably because I'm soft-hearted.

I've gotten the same vibes to be honest. I was looking for a solid defense to confirm a town read and didn't get one, disappointingly. However, while I don't believe sheeping without a formed opinion is in itself is a dead-given scumtell, it trumps my gut town feeling and warrants a strong

FoS

while I look at other options. No sense in getting head-locked over something that could possibly be nothing more than a town mistake.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Zinger

I see you've went ahead and name-claimed, in renegade fashion. Then you roleplayed a bit and dropped off my map. You can stay in character, but I'd likes your thoughts on..well anything that's happened so far. Or at least Earl Hickey's thoughts. He's a smart fellow. I'd ask that you put your vote on your top scumspect? If no one in particular sticks out, why?

[pappums rat]

Strikes me that in that case, labelling it as RVS still is counterproductive to the stated aim. More to the point, I've seen Vezok quicklynched within a couple of pages and 48 RL hours before simply for being him.

Please show me an example other than Vi’s “Mafia of the Complicated Seraph Mechanics” or whatever it was called because that quichlynch was completely policy in response to “Objection” Mafia and IMO was frankly deserved.

Because I haven’t seen any others.

I'll let Fonz get back to you on that, but while there are still questions on the table, would you mind answering mine that you haven't yet? They were:

I have never, ever, ever seen a townie label their vote as being in RVS. Have you ever done this before? Have you even seen other townies do this before?

Please provide links to both. I have only ever seen this happen once, from lynched scum, but it's an ongoing game so I cant fully disclose it until the game is over.



Also, ThAdmiral:

1. I have never, ever, ever seen a townie label their vote as being in RVS. Have you ever done this before? Have you even seen other townies do this before?

What? Yes, of course.

I would like links to this as well, if you wouldnt mind.

[Pappums Leather Jacket]

:sigh: for iso purposes:

Strikes me that in that case, labelling it as RVS still is counterproductive to the stated aim. More to the point, I've seen Vezok quicklynched within a couple of pages and 48 RL hours before simply for being him.

Please show me an example other than Vi’s “Mafia of the Complicated Seraph Mechanics” or whatever it was called because that quichlynch was completely policy in response to “Objection” Mafia and IMO was frankly deserved.

Because I haven’t seen any others.

I'll let Fonz get back to you on that, but while there are still questions on the table, would you mind answering mine that you haven't yet? They were:

I have never, ever, ever seen a townie label their vote as being in RVS. Have you ever done this before? Have you even seen other townies do this before?

Please provide links to both. I have only ever seen this happen once, from lynched scum, but it's an ongoing game so I cant fully disclose it until the game is over.



Also, ThAdmiral:

1. I have never, ever, ever seen a townie label their vote as being in RVS. Have you ever done this before? Have you even seen other townies do this before?

What? Yes, of course.

I would like links to this as well, if you wouldnt mind.

[Pappums Leather Jacket]

Also, so that we all will know whose hydra's are whose, who are you comprised of Zelink?

[Pinky and the Brain]

EBWOP: Besides, they're others on this wagon, if you're REALLY looking for the one that seems most opportunistic, you should be aiming for:

Ok, lemme clarify my earlier post. I think vezo's a VI, but I'll certainly never vote him again for a policy lynch, because he actually was the first person to do [REDACTED] in [REDACTED.]

Just b/c he got some votes doesn't mean anyone was going to PL him.

Jilly is defending/buddying Vezok just a little bit too much for my tastes. I also don't like Marco's reaction with Vifam.

vote:Jilly

Now THIS seems like some honest sheeping, don't you think?

Vifam is voteable just for this. Standard scum deflection: "I'm not sheeping! Look at him, he's doing the real sheeping!" Hypocracy.

unvote, Vote: Vifam

-diddin

[Pinky and the Brain]

EBWOP: I believe Zlink is not a hydra, PLJ.

-d

[Pinky and the Brain]

P-Edit: Darn, ninja'd by my other head?

I guess this makes this a triple post... blame diddin.

David -------------> Null - Could lean anyway

Why did you include one null-read and then leave 2/3 of the player list (presumably null) off your list of reads?

Okay, after going over this thread a little more, I think the most likely to be scum are:


MoI
Jyl
Marco
Nero

Is this ordered?

Where did Nero appear from? He wasn't on your list of reads before, but you were clearly aware of his alleged sheeping as you mentioned it in a post 8 minutes after your post of reads.

Spoiler: Pappums ISO #3

VOTE: vezok

RVS Wagon go.

Also you have dared to challenge the ultimate coolness of my character. You must die.

(My bold)- Why do you feel the need to label your vote as being on an RVS wagon? I think it is quite clear, considering this was the second vote of the game, that we were still in RVS. There is no reason why a townie would have to make it so clear that their vote is a RVS vote. This looks to me like you are trying to distance yourself from the wagon if it were to result in a lynch on vezok.

Spoiler: Pappums ISO #7

I have never, ever, ever seen a townie label their vote as being in RVS. Have you ever done this before? Have you even seen other townies do this before?

Please provide links to both. I have only ever seen this happen once, from lynched scum, but it's an ongoing game so I cant fully disclose it until the game is over.

Pappums, in #98 (or ISO #3) you say there "is no reason why a townie would have to make it so clear that their vote is a RVS vote".

In #179 (or ISO #7) you say that you have only seen it (the clear labelling of a RVS vote) "happen once, from lynched scum" (but [REDACTED] etc).

So you were willing to conclude based off one instance of scum labelling their vote as random that it was exclusively a scum-tell?

~ Hoppster

[Pappums Leather Jacket]

Regardless of whether or not I had seen it once from scum, I would still find labeling a vote as RVS strange on a site that practically never does this. I see it as distancing from the wagon, and as such see scum motivation behind it.

[jasonT1981]

Mod note.. I have made a small update under playerlist that will keep track of prods recieved for each player they are as follows.

* = 1 Prod
** = 2 prods
*** = 3 prods (if 3 in a day you will be replaced)
X = 4 prods / replaced (4 prods over all days will mean replacement)

[ZeL1nK]

Oh, I'm a hydra. My heads are poster#1 and poster#2. I've been told by poster#1 he wants to remain anonymous. I'd tell you who I am but I haven't played with a majority of the players in this game and I don't think it's important.

As for this game itself, Rod is town, MoI is town, Vifam is scum.

unvote

VOTE: vifam

Reads list in #145 looks contrived. It's as though he was just giving "reads" to give the illusion that he was scum hunting. I mean, come on... Look at the Zinger read, for example. It's like a "well, duh!" kind of read, and it was completely unnecessary. Also looks like buddying newb-town (Rod) while calling MoI-town scummy.

Subsequent posts are full of deflection and weak attacks for stuff that really isn't scummy.

[Pinky and the Brain]

Not wanting to headclaim is about as anti-town as it gets.

[David Xanatos]

I'm not sure how Hydras work on this site.. isn't it required for them to disclose who they are? :S

[ZeL1nK]

Not wanting to headclaim is about as anti-town as it gets.

Watch how much I care...

Watch...

Wait for it...

...

...

...

[killerjester]

Not wanting to headclaim is about as anti-town as it gets.

Watch how much I care...

Watch...

Wait for it...

...

...

...

The anticipation is killing me D:

Mod: I'm find the hydras a bit confusing myself. Can we have some clarification on this?

[Rodion]

2b - Yes, we regularly assume that recent signed up players have no mafia experience, unless they claim otherwise.

Well here on MS if you are playing outside “The Road to Rome” it is pretty much standard practice to assume you have sufficent skill levels to play with the ‘big boys’.

Sounds reasonable.

2c - Obviously, roles are given out randomly and new players are not "immune" to being scum, so they can and should be pressured.

Problem is, if you don't have strong evidence against the "newbies",

making a tempest in a teapot seems like an attempt to go for the easy lynch and, as such, is viewed as a scum tell.

Bolded for emphasis – the thread has barely been open 72 hours. What level of ‘strong evidence’ are you expecting at this stage of the game. Pressuring players is part of developing reads.

I was just warning you that the way you pressured the new guy over peanuts could backfire. And it sort of did, as can be seen in #98. http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p3237644

@Rodion, I think we've past the vezok bandwagon. If you had any final thoughts/readings of how certain players responded, care to share them before moving on? Also, where do you feel your vote is best placed at the moment?

I'll try.

Killerjester: if the Vezok wagon was RVS (at least according to MoI), why were you interested in the reason why David Xanatos apparently disregarded/skimmed MoI's invitation? It is scummy not to sheep someone's RVS and come up with a joke of his own?

Pappums' number 3 in #165 is a clear WIFOM (there were many others by many people, but that one stuck out for some reason). Scum could actually help the town with a good plan in order to get town cred. And the more people think that scum won't do it, the more likely scum is to try. Or not.

How are post restrictions done around here? It is possible that Zinger is being forced to act the way he is acting? If a post restriction of this kind is unlikely, he is among the scummiest in my radar simply because he's posting without contributing.

Vifam seems scummy as well. He sheeped MoI when he voted me, then sort of sheeped MoI again as far as pressuring Marco for the lack of an early RVS vote and then sheeped Pinky and the Brain when he voted Jilly. He also lacked coherence in #99 when he said he didn't believe me but gave me the benefit of the doubt anyway.

Granted, I don't know a lot about hydras, but I dislike Zelink not disclosing who he/they is/are. Seems like they don't want to be metaed so they are not caught. If you're town in this particular game, why not simply tell us who you are and make another hydra for future scum games?

As far as voting, I'm inclined to go for Vifam, but not before a vote count since he has been getting a lot of votes lately and I don't want to accidentally hammer before we get a claim.

I have some questions for whoever wants to aid me. Thanks in advance!

1 - What's a policy lynch?
2 - Pvt Slate mentioned he's "EST". Did he reference his timezone or something else? If the former, is it common to mention your timezone?
3 - How common are mafia busdrivers here? Zelink said he'd vig Zinger, should we be worried that a mafia busdriver redirects the kill into someone else? I'm still confused as to whether Zelink made a joke when he claimed vig or not and his "sarcasm" was only present when he replied to Oversoul's weird post (Oversoul asked the claimed vig to protect someone - I think it was simply a poor phrasing and he actually asked the doc to protect the vig - or the person the vig promised to kill). Also, if the vig claim is serious, Zelink, would you also name claim so we test the theory on the randomness of roles (a theory you mentioned yourself in #122)?
4 - What's a "PL" (mentioned by Vifam in #145)?
5 - What's an ISO post? It's probably your personal post count, but what does it stand for?
6 - Are vezok and Andew common targets of RVS wagons? Why?

[silverdrummer]

silverdrummer is a Hydra of cjdrum and silverbullet999.
sb999 seems to not sign his posts , but cjdrum does

I don't like that ZeL1nK is not head-naming, but there's not much we can do to stop him.

Vifam's list was... odd... But I don't think it's quite vote worthy.


I'll try to keep posting up while sb is away.



Ninja'd by some questions!
1 - Policy lynch is a lynch based off the player or their playstyle, rather than for actual scumminess.
2 - I don't know any Mafia terms that "EST" could be... Not sure about the normality, though.
5 - It means "in ISOlation". At the bottom of all the pages, it says "Display posts by user:"? That's the easiest way to look at someone's posts in ISO.

~ cjdrum

[ZeL1nK]

I'm still confused as to whether Zelink made a joke when he claimed vig or not

Good. Let's keep it that way. If people think I'm joking, then that's a good thing.

[ThreeIsFrench]

we're a hydra too, i've posted every time so far, though.

~Hip

[killerjester]

Killerjester: if the Vezok wagon was RVS (at least according to MoI), why were you interested in the reason why David Xanatos apparently disregarded/skimmed MoI's invitation? It is scummy not to sheep someone's RVS and come up with a joke of his own?

Townies have an incentive to read

every single post

in a game, as every post brings them close to their goal of lynching all anti-town. Mafia will often skim the posts and only look for subjects they can bring the town's attention to. The joke was fine. I found the fact that he didn't respond to the question more scummy than anything else, as I feel a townie wouldn't have missed a question directly pointed at them.

I have some questions for whoever wants to aid me. Thanks in advance!

1 - What's a policy lynch?
2 - Pvt Slate mentioned he's "EST". Did he reference his timezone or something else? If the former, is it common to mention your timezone?
3 - How common are mafia busdrivers here? Zelink said he'd vig Zinger, should we be worried that a mafia busdriver redirects the kill into someone else? I'm still confused as to whether Zelink made a joke when he claimed vig or not and his "sarcasm" was only present when he replied to Oversoul's weird post (Oversoul asked the claimed vig to protect someone - I think it was simply a poor phrasing and he actually asked the doc to protect the vig - or the person the vig promised to kill). Also, if the vig claim is serious, Zelink, would you also name claim so we test the theory on the randomness of roles (a theory you mentioned yourself in #122)?
4 - What's a "PL" (mentioned by Vifam in #145)?
5 - What's an ISO post? It's probably your personal post count, but what does it stand for?
6 - Are vezok and Andew common targets of RVS wagons? Why?

1. & 4. A "PL" is a Policy Lynch, where you propose to lynch someone regardless of alignment because their actions will only hurt the town later on.
2. EST is Eastern Starnard Timezone (GMT -5:00). Mentioning your timezones helps because it will give the other players a better feel for when to expect your posts.
3. That's a role where I'd say, "Don't try to outguess the Mod." We might have one, or we might not. Everything that goes on during the night is pretty WIFOM anyway. (He could he saying he'd shoot Zelink when really- something elaborate.. etc...)

[Zinger2099]

@Zinger

– are you going to do any actual scum-hunting this game as opposed to just paraphrasing flavor from “My Name is Earl”?

Yes.

[Zinger2099]

Zinger-------> Null/Scum - I don't see any attempt to actually get in the game yet and I didn't like his reaction to being "shot"

Why?

[Zinger2099]

You know that guy you see going into the convenience store when you stop off at that little town on the way to grandma's house? A sort of shifty looking fella who buys a pack of smokes, a couple of lotto scratchers and a tall boy at ten in the morning? The kind of guy you wait for to come out before you and your family go in? Well, that guy is me. My name is Earl. And if you took the time to really get to know me, find out what kind of person I truly am instead of just stereotyping me because of the way I look, well, you'd be wasting your time, because I'm exactly who you think I am. Hell, I'll pretty much steal anything that isn't nailed down.

You can't be him because My Name Is....

Wait a minute. I see what you did there.

Vote: Zinger

!

If you are claiming to be Earl Hickey, you are lying.

Vote: PeregrineV

Lynch all liars!

[Zinger2099]

You can stay in character, but I'd likes your thoughts on..well anything that's happened so far.

Fair enough.

ZeL1nk is clearly holding grudges across from a previous game. He really shouldn't do that, and it is definitely not helpful to the town if he carries on with that behavior.

I think Vifam has some explaining to do. He looks like he is trying to find excuses to point fingers, which is what scum do. He said he didn't like my reaction to 'being shot', well I want to know why he didn't like it, and what would be a more acceptable reaction. Should I have approved of ZeL1nk's decision to try to shoot me tonight?

Peregrine might have been counter-claiming me (I am not 100% sure, his post is vague), but if he was indeed attempting to counter-claim me, it is a lie and he is scum.

Everything else is a null-tell, but I will be targeting ZeLink tonight.

That is enough from me for now.