Mini 1179: Paranoia Mafia

[Glass]

Looking over this tonight. Goddam work is just killing me.

[LobsterCatapult]

ill look over cdogs wall here in a minute.

i dont think i should hold my breath for surye's opinion, but i want to hear it. im also curious about the statuses

[CooLDoG]

I'm curious about the relevance pf the statuses to surye's response.

[Umbrage]

I'm just saying that this could possibly be mylo, and with you pushing so hard for a 2-man scum team it would be a fucking good fit for you to have this not at mylo.

Which is a valid point. But it's one you should've brought up when I FIRST SAID there were 2 scum. You didn't. You apparently thought it good that myself and the rest of the town think there were 2 scum. Why?

Careful =/= to fince setting not having reads. You always come into a day having reads. Not having those reads means you are ridiculously bad (you aren't) or that you are contemplating who you can get away with lynching. It has nothing to do with mylo because you still think there are 2-man scum teams at this point. So you have no reads in a non-lylo situation, explain.

How the hell do you think I didn't come in with any reads? I started off with Glass as scum, you as town, and vezok as scum. I acted on those reads. Over time I lost faith in my wagons, and decided to reexamine the game. THAT IS CALLED BEING CAREFUL. THAT IS CALLED SCUMHUNTING. THAT IS A GOOD THING TO DO IN MYLO.

I may not be able to find one who will agree in every case, but I will be able to find a whole bunch who will say going into day-3 (lylo or not) you should have at least 1 scum read.

See above.

you are misunderstanding my point about the three man scum team. The three man scum team is a possibility which you refuse to consider, you always pass it off as being unbalanced and other set-up wifom bullshit. I'm just concerned that this could be a mylo situation. Natuarly you persuaded all of the town (including me for a time) that there was a two man scum team. All that I'm saying is don't count out there being a three man scum team and this being mylo. Most likly there is a two man scum team, but you have to be prudent. And someone convincing the town in a possible mylo situation (and avidly pushing) a 2-man scum team idea reeks of scum. You yourself said to be cautious in a lylo situation, why don't you assume the worst?

OBVIOUSLY I considered a 3-man scumteam, otherwise I wouldn't have deducted that there was a 2-man scumteam.

But this is still a distraction. You NEVER said "maybe there's 3 scum", you said "Umbrage has 2 scumbuddies". THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE. One is trying to be helpful to the town, the other is a scumslip.

If I really was pushing a 2-man team so hard, then why didn't you say anything earlier? Seems like you only became concerned when I started attacking you.

Because I pushed hard for a correct lynch on d-2. LLD was such an easy target for scum. And d-1 was full of scum shit with the occult lynch. You simply didn't have the time.

Tee-hee. Now you're saying I had nothing to do with the LLD lynch? I think you should try reading the thread again.

Admittedly, I haven't played with vezok where he's been scum, but ThAdmiral's scum meta on him sounds a hell of a lot like what his town meta has been from my experience with him.

Disagreeing with a meta read =/= refusal to lynch, sad to say.

I don't really see any reason to lynch vezok over Surye.

Does that say I refuse to lynch vezok? Not in the slightest.

@ Everyone on vezokpiraka: Your arguments against vezok are things vezok always does. Sure, you can make the argument that that isn't an excuse, I'm with you on that. But it's still not a substitute for scumhunting.

Basically, you have a bunch of nulltells. Now, assuming every other player is null for you, then sure, lynch vezok because he's not valuable to the town and is next to impossible to read as scum anyway. I don't have a problem with that line of reasoning. What I don't like is how you're pushing vezok while ignoring everyone else. Why are you pushing a case full of nulltells? Is there nobody else in the game that you have suspicion on?

Today, more than anything, we need content. A lot of it. And that means scumhunting. Arguing back and forth. Vezok isn't going to contribute to that no matter how much you push him. Sure, he could flip scum, but he could also flip town, and either way we'd be right back where we started today. He's an easy cop-out lynch, and pushing for it is scummy as hell.

Again, I'm not opposed to a vezok lynch today. I'm opposed to his lynch being our first choice.

Note the bolded, and try reading properly before you embarrass yourself again.

You say this is gut, but the italics show that there is more going on there. You actually have reasons, you just aren't willing to fully display thim. Atleast that's the read I'm getting.

I had my reasons for attacking vezok. Jumping OFF his wagon was gut.

Yeah you push hard for two lynches and then you stop doing anything on d-3 no mylo. You don't have any reads after two full days of content and you refuse to jump on a wagon in non-mylo. THAT'S fince setting. Especially after you pushed hard for two non-scum lynches. That action you yourself said was scummy.

In what universe does "push hard for two days then do nothing" make sense as a scum tactic?

Simply that the vezok and glass wagon stopped. Nothing moved. No body wanted to even add pressure to them. SOme of those people are glass vezok and you....

Ah, OK. Wait... uh, nope, still have no idea what you're saying here.

Ohh, ohh shit. You just said there aren't three scum. Well we assume you are saying 2 scum. No?

I... I just don't understand... what does it all mean???

[Glass]

UNVOTE:
wtf

When did cooldog go from "there are two scum" to "there are three scum"? If he really thinks that it is mylo then why is he voting for umbrage? Is it just me or does it look like cooldog just try and make it look like umbrage saying there are 2 scum as a scumslip when we had already established this at the beginning of the day?

[LobsterCatapult]

UNVOTE:
wtf

When did cooldog go from "there are two scum" to "there are three scum"? If he really thinks that it is mylo then why is he voting for umbrage? Is it just me or does it look like cooldog just try and make it look like umbrage saying there are 2 scum as a scumslip when we had already established this at the beginning of the day?

O_O

first post: he thinks its mylo, 6 townies 2 scummies

then he says that umbrage has 2 scum buddies

which is vastly different from 5 townies, 3 scum, which would be lylo.

either cdog is scum trying to force town to think its mylo when its lylo, or he is misprepping umbrage.

>_> mod where are le statuseseseseses?

[ThAdmiral]

step 1: find out statuses
step 2: somebody hammer cooldog

[vezokpiraka]

UNVOTE:
wtf

When did cooldog go from "there are two scum" to "there are three scum"? If he really thinks that it is mylo then why is he voting for umbrage? Is it just me or does it look like cooldog just try and make it look like umbrage saying there are 2 scum as a scumslip when we had already established this at the beginning of the day?

O_O

first post: he thinks its mylo, 6 townies 2 scummies

then he says that umbrage has 2 scum buddies

which is vastly different from 5 townies, 3 scum, which would be lylo.

either cdog is scum trying to force town to think its mylo when its lylo, or he is misprepping umbrage.

>_> mod where are le statuseseseseses?

6-2 isn't Mylo or lylo.
5-3 is Mylo though.

[Umbrage]

UNVOTE:
wtf

When did cooldog go from "there are two scum" to "there are three scum"? If he really thinks that it is mylo then why is he voting for umbrage? Is it just me or does it look like cooldog just try and make it look like umbrage saying there are 2 scum as a scumslip when we had already established this at the beginning of the day?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 8#p3228378

[CooLDoG]

Again, today I don't have as much time as I would like (in the morning)...


@LLD,UMbridge

Is this not mylo?

vote: glass

Blatantly ignoring the LLD wagon.

This was my first post of d-3. The fifth post of d-3 to be exact. Since we know the tototal number of players it can be easily derived from the above quote that I thought there were two scum teams.

@mod, this weekend I will be v/la

[vezokpiraka]

Again, today I don't have as much time as I would like (in the morning)...


@LLD,UMbridge

Is this not mylo?

vote: glass

Blatantly ignoring the LLD wagon.

This was my first post of d-3. The fifth post of d-3 to be exact. Since we know the tototal number of players it can be easily derived from the above quote that I thought there were two scum teams.

@mod, this weekend I will be v/la

WHAAA------???!!?!?!?!?!? Two scum teams ? Were the fuck did you get that.

You gotta die like right now.

[LobsterCatapult]

UNVOTE:
wtf

When did cooldog go from "there are two scum" to "there are three scum"? If he really thinks that it is mylo then why is he voting for umbrage? Is it just me or does it look like cooldog just try and make it look like umbrage saying there are 2 scum as a scumslip when we had already established this at the beginning of the day?

O_O

first post: he thinks its mylo, 6 townies 2 scummies

then he says that umbrage has 2 scum buddies

which is vastly different from 5 townies, 3 scum, which would be lylo.

either cdog is scum trying to force town to think its mylo when its lylo, or he is misprepping umbrage.

>_> mod where are le statuseseseseses?

6-2 isn't Mylo or lylo.
5-3 is Mylo though.

ur right. i had the concept of mylo confused. at least my mom thinks im smart.

either way, for cooldog to now say he thought there were 2 scum teams, an sk, in a mini is absurd.

[nopointinactingup]

step 1: find out statuses
step 2: somebody hammer cooldog

I'm scum

@mod, this weekend I will be v/la

You gotta die like right now.

[Umbrage]

Again, today I don't have as much time as I would like (in the morning)...


@LLD,UMbridge

Is this not mylo?

vote: glass

Blatantly ignoring the LLD wagon.

This was my first post of d-3. The fifth post of d-3 to be exact. Since we know the tototal number of players it can be easily derived from the above quote that I thought there were two scum teams.

@mod, this weekend I will be v/la

NO.

ASKING IF TODAY IS MYLO DOES NOT EQUAL SAYING THERE ARE 3 SCUM.

DIE.

[CooLDoG]

Sorry 2 scum teams means 2 man scum team. Not two 2 man scum teams...

Lets get to umbridge's most recent post before we go into the long one.

How else could it be mylo? Answer that directly.

Now off to the big post.... What a chore.

[CooLDoG]

I'm just saying that this could possibly be mylo, and with you pushing so hard for a 2-man scum team it would be a fucking good fit for you to have this not at mylo.

Which is a valid point. But it's one you should've brought up when I FIRST SAID there were 2 scum. You didn't. You apparently thought it good that myself and the rest of the town think there were 2 scum. Why?

I never realized the magnitude of your statement until my attention was drawn to your lack of commitment in d-3. I had never really pondered the implications of you saying there are 2 scum teams.

Careful =/= to fince setting not having reads. You always come into a day having reads. Not having those reads means you are ridiculously bad (you aren't) or that you are contemplating who you can get away with lynching. It has nothing to do with mylo because you still think there are 2-man scum teams at this point. So you have no reads in a non-lylo situation, explain.

How the hell do you think I didn't come in with any reads? I started off with Glass as scum, you as town, and vezok as scum. I acted on those reads. Over time I lost faith in my wagons, and decided to reexamine the game. THAT IS CALLED BEING CAREFUL. THAT IS CALLED SCUMHUNTING. THAT IS A GOOD THING TO DO IN MYLO.

How is this mylo? You yourself said that there are 2 man scum teams. So you aren't be cautious in mylo, you are just not having reads on d-3. Even when your lynch wagon fails you should always have a fall back.

I may not be able to find one who will agree in every case, but I will be able to find a whole bunch who will say going into day-3 (lylo or not) you should have at least 1 scum read.

See above.

Again, how can you only have two lynches that you would be willing to support in d-3 non lylo/mylo?????????????????????

you are misunderstanding my point about the three man scum team. The three man scum team is a possibility which you refuse to consider, you always pass it off as being unbalanced and other set-up wifom bullshit. I'm just concerned that this could be a mylo situation. Natuarly you persuaded all of the town (including me for a time) that there was a two man scum team. All that I'm saying is don't count out there being a three man scum team and this being mylo. Most likly there is a two man scum team, but you have to be prudent. And someone convincing the town in a possible mylo situation (and avidly pushing) a 2-man scum team idea reeks of scum. You yourself said to be cautious in a lylo situation, why don't you assume the worst?

OBVIOUSLY I considered a 3-man scumteam, otherwise I wouldn't have deducted that there was a 2-man scumteam.

See linked games in previous post. We had potentially three or more doctors in this set-up. Two man scum team and sk isn't balanced with three doc. But I forgot, the scum have a role blocker... you.

But this is still a distraction. You NEVER said "maybe there's 3 scum", you said "Umbrage has 2 scumbuddies". THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE. One is trying to be helpful to the town, the other is a scumslip.

If I really was pushing a 2-man team so hard, then why didn't you say anything earlier? Seems like you only became concerned when I started attacking you.

No, I only started being concerned with this when I started looking at you d-3 play. Then when I started reflecting on your past statements (specifically early in d-3) I found that you as scum could benefit greatly by convencing the town that we have a two man scum team.

Because I pushed hard for a correct lynch on d-2. LLD was such an easy target for scum. And d-1 was full of scum shit with the occult lynch. You simply didn't have the time.

Tee-hee. Now you're saying I had nothing to do with the LLD lynch? I think you should try reading the thread again.

Ohh yeah, you just hopped on the easy lynch wagon a threw out generic points. Any average scum play could have easily hopped on that wagon like you did. But the point remains that those two lynches were easy to get onto and both flipped non-scum.

Admittedly, I haven't played with vezok where he's been scum, but ThAdmiral's scum meta on him sounds a hell of a lot like what his town meta has been from my experience with him.

Disagreeing with a meta read =/= refusal to lynch, sad to say.

I don't see your vote on that there wagon....

I don't really see any reason to lynch vezok over Surye.

Does that say I refuse to lynch vezok? Not in the slightest.

Why no vote then? If you supported the lynch why aren't you arguing for it? Why aren't you voting for vezok?

@ Everyone on vezokpiraka: Your arguments against vezok are things vezok always does. Sure, you can make the argument that that isn't an excuse, I'm with you on that. But it's still not a substitute for scumhunting.

Basically, you have a bunch of nulltells. Now, assuming every other player is null for you, then sure, lynch vezok because he's not valuable to the town and is next to impossible to read as scum anyway. I don't have a problem with that line of reasoning. What I don't like is how you're pushing vezok while ignoring everyone else. Why are you pushing a case full of nulltells? Is there nobody else in the game that you have suspicion on?

Today, more than anything, we need content. A lot of it. And that means scumhunting. Arguing back and forth. Vezok isn't going to contribute to that no matter how much you push him. Sure, he could flip scum, but he could also flip town, and either way we'd be right back where we started today. He's an easy cop-out lynch, and pushing for it is scummy as hell.

Again, I'm not opposed to a vezok lynch today. I'm opposed to his lynch being our first choice.

Note the bolded, and try reading properly before you embarrass yourself again.

At this point you have no reads. You are say, "ohh we could lynch vezok, but can I get away with it? Ahh somebody else will get easier to lynch and I'll hop on that later. I won't commit to anything, I'll just sit back in my lawn chair and have a nice cold drink while all the others are scum hunting. Yeah, that will work out nicely." And exactly that happened. An easy lynch poped up, and boom you are right on it now. Good game scum, you played this marvelously.

You say this is gut, but the italics show that there is more going on there. You actually have reasons, you just aren't willing to fully display thim. Atleast that's the read I'm getting.

I had my reasons for attacking vezok. Jumping OFF his wagon was gut.

so you never really had a definitive reason for hopping off the vezok wagon. Again, shakey reads on d-3 people. This doesn't make sense. How can an expierenced player like umbridge not have any good reads on d-3 no mylo. For a large portion of the day he doesn't even have a vote onj anybody.

Yeah you push hard for two lynches and then you stop doing anything on d-3 no mylo. You don't have any reads after two full days of content and you refuse to jump on a wagon in non-mylo. THAT'S fince setting. Especially after you pushed hard for two non-scum lynches. That action you yourself said was scummy.

In what universe does "push hard for two days then do nothing" make sense as a scum tactic?

When you run out of easy targets. Its not a matter of deciding to do it. You just found yourself off-balance and forgot to push your "reads". Any half-assed scum player could spit out shit on occult and LLD for years. But when it was show time, you ran out of steam...

Simply that the vezok and glass wagon stopped. Nothing moved. No body wanted to even add pressure to them. Some of those people are glass vezok and you....

Ah, OK. Wait... uh, nope, still have no idea what you're saying here.

Ohh, ohh shit. You just said there aren't three scum. Well we assume you are saying 2 scum. No?

I... I just don't understand... what does it all mean???

Basically you are, in that quote, saying that there are in fact 2 scum. Simply put you got the town fooled into two man scum team and when one person descents you find grounds for an easy lynch. Great job masterful play if I do say so myself. I should nominate you for a scummy after this game.

ONLY 12 SIMILIES WHAT THE FUCK?

[LobsterCatapult]

oh suurrryyeee.....wherree aaarreee youuuu???

also. no hammering of cdog until we analyse the status thingies when they appear. no hammering right after its posted.

i think cdog is misrepping umbrage's stance on the vezok lynch. just because you dont mind someone getting lynched, doesnt mean you should champion it if you think there is a better lynch out there.

btw. i think nopoint is bussing.

[CooLDoG]

What is there to gain from the statuses?
And what lynch did umbridge push after he hopped off of vezok?

[Surye]

Reading

[LobsterCatapult]

What is there to gain from the statuses?
And what lynch did umbridge push after he hopped off of vezok?

glass?

thats the point, i dont know what there is to gain from the statuses, but. i do know there is no point in lynching someone (in this case you)before we see them.

general curiosity also piques my interest.

i may have to reread this.

[Surye]

Conclusion Vezo is scummy as hell. I want to keep my vote on glass until it becomes apparent that his wagon is dead.

I hate posts like these, they are so anti-scumhunting.

Umbrage's 509 is a good post about more CD fluff posting and empty attacks (like saying he never expresses who he wants to lynch).

CD's 522 has a terrible defense of information leak. I don't buy it.

I am willing to hammer, but like I said, I'm trying to make sense of the statuses, and it would be foolish to throw out information by not waiting.

pedit: What LC said basically.

[Surye]

Will be out of town till the 17th. I will be reading the game on my phone, and will reply, but will be limited on huge posts.

[Umbrage]

Part 1:

How else could it be mylo? Answer that directly.

You asked if this was mylo. You didn't even say you thought this was mylo. You just asked if it was. I made a post or two outlining reasoning as to why this is not mylo and why this setup cannot hold 3 mafia. I thought the matter closed since nobody bothered to dispute my reasoning.

I never realized the magnitude of your statement until my attention was drawn to your lack of commitment in d-3. I had never really pondered the implications of you saying there are 2 scum teams.

Really?

This is the post where you first voted me. I see no mention of my saying there are 2 scum left as a point against me. That doesn't show up until later, presumably after you'd realized you slipped in that post.

But your words are "how did he know there were two scum". The answer to that is simple:

Exhibit A
Exhibit B

You never disputed that reasoning. You never even acknowledged that reasoning. You just went OMG WITCHCRAFT as a gut reaction. I think we're done here.

How is this mylo? You yourself said that there are 2 man scum teams. So you aren't be cautious in mylo, you are just not having reads on d-3. Even when your lynch wagon fails you should always have a fall back.

Oh my fucking god.

Even when your lynch wagon fails you should always have a fall back.

No way.

Even when your lynch wagon fails you should always have a fall back.

Even when your lynch wagon fails you should always have a fall back.

Even when your lynch wagon fails you should always have a fall back.

Mod Edit: Cut back on the repitionion here to be less of a nusance. For reference, there were 23 repeats.

THAT IS NOT TOWN PLAY. THAT IS SCUM PLAY. TOWN TRY TO LYNCH SCUM. TOWN DOUBT THEMSELVES. TOWN ARE CAUTIOUS. SCUM LINE UP LYNCHES. SCUM HAVE A BACKUP LYNCH.

Again, how can you only have two lynches that you would be willing to support in d-3 non lylo/mylo?????????????????????

Because I'M NOT SCUM AND I DON'T NEED TO BE WILLING TO LYNCH ANYONE.

See linked games in previous post. We had potentially three or more doctors in this set-up. Two man scum team and sk isn't balanced with three doc. But I forgot, the scum have a role blocker... you.

SEE THIS IS THE KIND OF REASONING THAT WOULD'VE BEEN USEFUL AT THE START OF THE GAME.

BUT NO, YOU WERE TOO BUSY LICKING MY BOOTS. AT LEAST UNTIL I WASN'T USEFUL TO YOU ANYMORE.

THEN SUDDENLY YOU HAVE A BUNCH OF TELLS ON ME.

I'VE SAID THIS BEFORE AND I'LL SAY IT AGAIN.

SCUMTELLS CANNOT BE APPLIED RETROACTIVELY WITHOUT LOOKING LIKE YOU ARE NOT SCUMHUNTING.

No, I only started being concerned with this when I started looking at you d-3 play. Then when I started reflecting on your past statements (specifically early in d-3) I found that you as scum could benefit greatly by convencing the town that we have a two man scum team.

SO WHAT, MY POSTS WERE JUST WHITE NOISE? YOU NEVER READ THEM, NEVER PAID ATTENTION TO THEM?

LOOKS LIKE YOU SUSPECTED EVERYONE BUT MYSELF COMING INTO D3. HM, INTERESTING.

Ohh yeah, you just hopped on the easy lynch wagon a threw out generic points. Any average scum play could have easily hopped on that wagon like you did. But the point remains that those two lynches were easy to get onto and both flipped non-scum.

AGAIN: READ THE FUCKING GAME.

I don't see your vote on that there wagon....

SO? I DON'T VOTE FOR ALL OF MY SUSPECTS AND LYNCH CANDIDATES. SHOW ME ONE PLAYER WHO DOES.

Why no vote then? If you supported the lynch why aren't you arguing for it? Why aren't you voting for vezok?

I DID VOTE.

THEN I UNVOTED.

BECAUSE I WAS BEING CAREFUL.

BECAUSE TOWN IS CAREFUL.

BECAUSE TOWN DOESN'T WANT A MISLYNCH.

GET IT NOW?

At this point you have no reads. You are say, "ohh we could lynch vezok, but can I get away with it? Ahh somebody else will get easier to lynch and I'll hop on that later. I won't commit to anything, I'll just sit back in my lawn chair and have a nice cold drink while all the others are scum hunting. Yeah, that will work out nicely." And exactly that happened. An easy lynch poped up, and boom you are right on it now. Good game scum, you played this marvelously.

At this point it might be good if you read over one of my scum games. Check my wiki page. As scum, I never rest. I throw crap around to confuse town. I latch onto a wagon with all of my heart to make it look like I'm scumhunting when I'm just tunneling.

Having no reads is a null tell, not a scum tell. You can't change that.

Part 2 will come tonight.

[ThAdmiral]

No need to yell. We all know colddog is scum.

[LobsterCatapult]

mod, will the statuses come this weekend?