TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win

[Rodion]

You can stay in character, but I'd likes your thoughts on..well anything that's happened so far.

Fair enough.

ZeL1nk is clearly holding grudges across from a previous game. He really shouldn't do that, and it is definitely not helpful to the town if he carries on with that behavior.

I think Vifam has some explaining to do. He looks like he is trying to find excuses to point fingers, which is what scum do. He said he didn't like my reaction to 'being shot', well I want to know why he didn't like it, and what would be a more acceptable reaction. Should I have approved of ZeL1nk's decision to try to shoot me tonight?

Peregrine might have been counter-claiming me (I am not 100% sure, his post is vague), but if he was indeed attempting to counter-claim me, it is a lie and he is scum.

Everything else is a null-tell, but I will be targeting ZeLink tonight.

That is enough from me for now.

Can you post a link of the game that generated the bad blood between you two?

And one more unnecessary (soft) claim?

[ZeL1nK]

I hold no grudge. Zinger won me that game.

[Zinger2099]

I hold no grudge. Zinger won me that game.

Then why you want to kill me?

[jilynne1991]

You guys...I am sooo sorry, but I really need to start cutting the crap out of my life, because I'm going to a math camp soon and then I'm trying to get into a boarding school, I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to leave mafiascum, sorry. I really wish I didn't have to leave everyone like this, but I really don't want to waste my summer. I know I should have thought of this earlier, and I'm sorry for the inconvenience it caused you guys.

[chkballin]

UNVOTE: vezokpiraka
VOTE: David Xanatos

Working on a wall. Expect it soon.

[andrew94]

i skimmed cos i had test tommorrow.


less walls, more stuff please/

[David Xanatos]

See post #136.

I did respond to it, I clarified it with a question.

Mod: Is there a replacement in the wings for Jilynne?

Still don't know what to make of Jily.. direct contradictions within her posts, ends up coming off as either Town relying a little too much on meta, or slightly overconfident scum.. the replacing isn't really helping either, especially without any mention of a defense.. :/

Reading Vifam's ISO, I really don't like that the entire defense s/he's trying to field is "I agreed with the reads, but don't pay attention to that, pay attention to the other guy who agreed with people's reads, he must be scum for that!". Coupled with the silence since then, I find it a little more than suspicious.

Vote: Vifam

Please, explain why your "agreeing with reads" is a more valid defense than any of those you accuse of bandwagoning "agreeing with reads".

[David Xanatos]

And Chkballin, I'm curious. It must be a multiple thousand word post if it's taken you over three hours to write it...

[jasonT1981]

Mod: Is there a replacement in the wings for Jilynne?

Advertising for one now

[ThAdmiral]

Sorry Nero but your /confirm - JUMP ON WAGGON doesn't sit well.

I actually liked it. He didn't cop out and random vote, he actually voted someone for with reasonable cause.
Bandwaggoning isn't always a bad thing anyway.

Crap, alt slipped.

This is totally unrelated to the game so I’m segregating it at the top –

Are you really telling me you have been here 1.5 months and felt the need to already have an Alt?]

I don't see what this has to do with anything.

I'm liking killerjester. Post 161 seems genuine.

Vifam post 163 is terrible. Essentially: "ok I admit I'm scummy, but these guys are MORE scummy aren't they? (pls don't lynch me)"

vote: vifam

He's never played on this site before. Incidentally, the 'Newbie elevator' basically describes a significant proportion of day one mislynches on this site, so it's something to be aware of. If a newbie does something scummy early, then starts flipping his shit, raising the temperature is only going to cause him to flip his shit more.

I'm sure this happens, but more often than not someone (like yourself), will point out this fact before a newbie ends up getting lynched - and then they DON'T get lynched. We have a pretty reasonable player base here IMO and we generally don't just jump on the first thing that comes along blindly and ride it all the way to the end. I think one of the main strengths of mafiascum is how often a playing group will question their own actions.

Vifam is dodgy is all hell in my book, but I'm waiting on her mounting even a vague defense before I drop a vote on her. Jily.. I honestly don't know. My gut says confused town, but my head says suspicious. My main thought is Vifam though..

...this is where you vote for vifam.
When you are thinking ^ that ^ you vote for the person in question.

Also, ThAdmiral:

1. I have never, ever, ever seen a townie label their vote as being in RVS. Have you ever done this before? Have you even seen other townies do this before?

What? Yes, of course.

I would like links to this as well, if you wouldnt mind.

I

know

I've seen it. I'm not sure where. Can you just assume I'm not lying.

[David Xanatos]

Admiral, I have voted for Vifam. I wanted to give her time to mount a more substantial and logical defense, but enough time has passed that it's even more suspicious.

[vezokpiraka]

Let that damn game rest in peace or me and MoI will policy lynch zinger.

As for Vifam: Look suspicion. Let's lay down and let it get onto someone else.

He's caught scum and doesn't know what to do.

[ThAdmiral]

3 - How common are mafia busdrivers here? Zelink said he'd vig Zinger, should we be worried that a mafia busdriver redirects the kill into someone else? I'm still confused as to whether Zelink made a joke when he claimed vig or not and his "sarcasm" was only present when he replied to Oversoul's weird post (Oversoul asked the claimed vig to protect someone - I think it was simply a poor phrasing and he actually asked the doc to protect the vig - or the person the vig promised to kill). Also, if the vig claim is serious, Zelink, would you also name claim so we test the theory on the randomness of roles (a theory you mentioned yourself in #122)?

Busdriver is a very rare role. I've only seen it in one game and that was specifically a busdriver game. Furthermore all the busdrivers were town (iirc). So I have never seen a mafia busdriver and I wouldn't expect to for exactly the reason you talk about i.e. that it could prove exceptionally powerful for the scum if a vig claims.

6 - Are vezok and Andew common targets of RVS wagons? Why?

Vezok is. Rvs wagons and the aforementioned policy lynch wagons. I have never seen vezok

actually

get policy lynched, but from what pappum stated earlier he apparently has been.
Andrew used to be but I don't think so much any more.

[ThAdmiral]

You guys...I am sooo sorry, but I really need to start cutting the crap out of my life

Mafiascum is crap?!

Admiral, I have voted for Vifam. I wanted to give her time to mount a more substantial and logical defense, but enough time has passed that it's even more suspicious.

Yeah, but there is no harm in saying you are suspicious of someone -> voting them -> and then if they mount a good defense unvoting them. That's how the system works.
You have a vote, it's an indication of who you are suspicious of at any given time, you may as well use it. I am of the philosophy that you should ALWAYS have your vote on

someone

.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Busdriver is a very rare role. I've only seen it in one game and that was specifically a busdriver game. Furthermore all the busdrivers were town (iirc). So I have never seen a mafia busdriver and I wouldn't expect to for exactly the reason you talk about i.e. that it could prove exceptionally powerful for the scum if a vig claims.

Mafia aligned busdrivers do exist. See Supernatural Mafia (Large Theme) for an example of a scum bus-driver.

It is an increadibly powerful scum role and thus fairly rare.

[izakthegoomba]

/confirm

Hi all, back from my V/LA now. I'll read and post later.

[Pappums Leather Jacket]

1. & 4. A "PL" is a Policy Lynch, where you propose to lynch someone regardless of alignment because their actions will only hurt the town later on.

God, people seem to be totally misunderstanding the whole concept of policy lynching. Policy lynching, for years, has meant the following:

There are certain actions which make absolutely no sense for town (that is, they either inevitably hurt the town, risk catastrophic harm to town, or at the very least don't have any benefit) or are so valuable to scum if they can get away with it, that people will lynch on sight anyone who does them. Examples include the most well-known, lynch all liars (the majority of people caught out lying about their roles are scum) lynch all claimed millers (if you don't lynch for it, it's an excellent move for scum because they've neutered the threat of cop investigation) and lynch anyone who claims Vanilla Townie when not facing impending lynch (because that really helps the scum narrow down who the ). Other examples include lynch all claimed third parties, lynch all lurkers, lynch all selfvoters... one player in the past had a lynch all claimed doctors policy, because he believed that scum were claiming doc so often, and actual town docs were killed pretty much immediately most of the time, that it made more sense just to lynch anyone who claimed doctor.

Policy lynching ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT mean you don't think the player is scum. You think he is. You think that one action he has taken is SO scummy that he's very likely to be scum just based on that. Policy lynching has the additional effects of removing derps from the game (because people who do massively antitown stuff as town are pretty much inevitably either derps or trying some weird gambit, or both) and deterring that behaviour in other players, which are positive developments, but they're not the reason you do it.

To quote JEEP, the father of lynch all liars 'Dumb or scum used to be a commonly-used phrase on site. I decided that I didn't want to assume the people I was playing with were idiots. If they did something that couldn't be rationally justified from a town perspective, I wouldn't think 'moron' I'd think 'scum.''

Lynching someone

because they're an horrifically bad player

before they've even done anything scummy is an entirely new development, has only happened once to my knowledge (to Vezok) and probably needs a new name. A blacklist lynch or something. I support policy lynching, but I've never done that, though ABR sorely tempted me back in the day.

[jasonT1981]

Day 1 Vote count 2

Vifam 8 - Marco, MOI, 3isFrench,Vezo, Pinky,ZeL1nk, DavidX, THAdmiral
Jilynne 3- Vifam, Nero, Leonshade
Zinger 2- PeregrineV, KillerJester
Andrew 1 - Silver
DavidX 1 - CHKBallin
ThAdmiral 1 - Chevre
Silver 1 - Andrew
Pine 1 - Oversoul
Chevre 1 - Pappum
Silverdrummer 1 - Slate
PeregrineV 1 - Zinger


With 27 alive it takes 14 to lynch with a deadline of 12thAugust 12pm EST

Mod: I'm find the hydras a bit confusing myself. Can we have some clarification on this?

What do you need cleared up?

[David Xanatos]

Who are the "heads" of each Hydra?

[jasonT1981]

Who are the "heads" of each Hydra?

Some hydras do not like to reveal who they are, I treat Hydras like Alts, they do not need to come forward if they do not want to. Some Hydras don't mind. However I will not be posting a list of Hydra members as I treat hydras as 1 slot. If they wish to tell you, they will tell you in the game who they are.

My only advice would be to check the sign up thread as some have declared who they are in it.

[David Xanatos]

But.. surely a game based on identifying tells and using them to determine who is "Scum" is undermined by a "person" who has the posting habits of multiple people, especially if those people are completely anonymous? :/

[jasonT1981]

That goes too much into game theory for a mod to answer, sorry

[Pappums Leather Jacket]

David: the mod has made a policy of allowing them to remain anon. If you wish to use your vote in-game to pressure them into reveal, then feel free. Some longstanding hydras will allow themselves to be lynched rather than reveal heads, but these normally have enough hydra meta that it can be lived with.

[marco1610]

The sudden (relatively speaking) wagon on Vifam has me doubting my vote for him.

@David Xanatos, Metagaming though useful isn't exactly something mafia games consider when being designed. Or at least when they were, initially. In my opinion, of course.

[jilynne1991]

Sorry. I really was planning to play through all these games...and then just not joining anymore.