Mafia 137 - Neruzian Era Mafia SERIAL KILLER WIN!

[GreyICE]

Claim: 1-shot Lie Detector

. I used it on 182, and the mod told me hiplop was not lying.

Fucking go read the fucking normal roles the next time you fakeclaim in the large normal forum idiot.

Vote: Mastin

[mastin2]

There is nothing in the normal rules against that role, Grey. It's an investigation-type role. It's also quite a weak ability.

[mastin2]

(A weak ability I happened to use well, but still, it's not that strong compared to, say, Cop or Watcher.)

◦Those affecting a role's alignment (no Cults).
◦Anything which significantly affects the core mechanic of majority/plurality lynches (no Kingmaker, for example).
◦Anything resolving with a random element, with the exception of missed night choices. It must be included in the public ruleset if you are resolving night choices in this way.
◦Post Restrictions (other than those included in the ruleset, such as "No quoting your Role PM").
◦Lying to the players, including False Role Reveals and "Scum Masons".
◦Night action redirection (no Bus Driver, Lightning Rod, Nexus, or Redirector).
◦Alignments other than Mafia/Werewolf, Pro-Town, and Serial Killer (no Survivor, Lyncher, or Jester).

Explain to me which of these rules a Lie Detector claim violates, Grey.

It doesn't. No alignment change, no lynch modification, no element of randomness, not a posting restriction, not lying to the players, no redirection, not third party.

[GreyICE]

There is nothing in the normal rules against that role, Grey. It's an investigation-type role. It's also quite a weak ability.

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Normal_Game

Roles which are explicitly Normal include:
Vanilla Townie, Sane Cop, Doctor, Vigilante, Roleblocker, Mason, Innocent Child, Jailkeeper, Tracker, Watcher, Gunsmith, Miller, Bodyguard, Role Cop, Doublevoter, Hider, Neighbor, Neighborizer, Jack of All Trades, Serial Killer, Mafia Goon, Mafia Traitor, Mafia Godfather, Mafia Framer, Mafia-aligned versions of above roles

Modifiers which are explicitly Normal include:
Even/Odd Night, Non-Consecutive Night, X-Shot, Bulletproof, Compulsive, Macho, Weak, Back-Up (with or without primary role present)

That's EXACTLY the sort of role that the normal games try to get away from. Like, what if Hiraki says "hiphop is scum." Does your lie detector get "False" if Hiiphop is town, true if he's scum? Or does it go off what Hiraki knows? What if I post a list of 5 names and say 1 or more is scum. Do we have five confirmed townies if you get 'false?'

It's a theme game ability, through and through.

[mastin2]

Just because it isn't whitelisted doesn't mean it's not possible. It's not blacklisted, Grey; it's in the game.

I asked the mod about it, and it is based on what the person believes. (Essentially, Lie Detector cannot detect an untruth the subject is not aware is false.)

And I used it with that knowledge to realize Hiplop had a town Motive in mind.

[chkflip]

Bah. Tomie doesn't need a case. Just too obvious.

Here's a deal. Nobody vote Hiplop and all those on (...with the possible exception of Hiraki, since I've given up trying to convince him to go elsewhere ) get off--preferably to Tomie/Edmund, but other suspects (NOT on the list of super-mega-townreads I gave, so no Bowser/Muffin/Maxous/Torquez votes, either!) are fine with me--and after that, I'll build a Tomie case.

So basically you want to puppet master the town and

then

you'll answer what should be a VERY EASY QUESTION?

And I thought *I* was an anti-town player. Christ's sake, dude.

[zMuffinMan]

People actually believe mastin's claim?

[chkflip]

I'm having a hard time putting two and two together right now, myself. I don't get how he got "hiplop is conftown" on a post talking about a couple scum reads pretty vaguely. How the hell would the mod be able to tell if that post is full of crap or not? Doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense to me.

[mastin2]

So basically you want to puppet master the town and then you'll answer what should be a VERY EASY QUESTION?

Question's easy. Answer's not. I can ask you a really complex math question in thirty seconds. Does that mean the answer can be given in an equal amount of time? Nope, it'll almost certainly take far longer than that to come up with the answer.

...Not the best metaphor, but it conveys the general idea.

I don't get how he got "hiplop is conftown" on a post talking about a couple scum reads pretty vaguely.

Hiplop's not in my list of four names, you'll note. I think Hiplop is town. He's not confirmed town.

How the hell would the mod be able to tell if that post is full of crap or not?

it is based on what the person believes. (Essentially, Lie Detector cannot detect an untruth the subject is not aware is false.)

Hiplop wasn't lying about his scum-reads-->hiplop is far more likely to be town.

[chkflip]

I don't quite understand hiplop's motivation with this post. It's D1... how is one little "distraction" going to derail the whole town? Oh, wait, it's not. So why the post asking to stop? Doesn't read very town-motivated to me.

Maxous' p.160 is kind of reaching and hardcore defends Tomie in the second quote. I understand that he's waiting for mastin's case on Tomie just like me, but that doesn't mean that two people can't read the thread, look at Tomie's posts, and proceed to get the same read (therefore agreeing with one another) without any visible case in sight. Mastin may very well be mudslinging to see who reacts. It's called reaction fishing; I personally do it pretty constantly (though I've stopped recently, I'm working more on my theory now). Do you think that play style makes mastin more likely to be town or scum? And what was the motivation behind responding to them (in the second quote) like that?

This is why people don't like purely meta-based cases. Pappum, can you provide proof to what you're saying? I don't think hiplop would lolwut without just cause.

Hiraki, I guess I'm the slow guy in the group. Explain how the last half is hypocritical? I don't follow.

When people say they'll be back in 24 and then don't show up? Feels like someone was prod dodging. Do not like.

Fluff fluffity fluff fluff. That and it contradicts the crap out of itself. Guarantee a probability? WELL I GUARANTEE I'LL PROBABLY EAT LUNCH TOMORROW. What's the point?

When Tomie flips scum, I'm headed for edmund. He can thank this post for that. Also this :scumposting:

GREYICE, WHY SO SERIOUS?!?

NINJA'd: Mastin, I didn't say the answer was

easy

-- but your scum read on the slot certainly came with ease. What's the difference?

[vezokpiraka]

HAHAHAHAHA.

FAIL gambit is FAIL.

unvote
vote mastin

There is no way someone sued a lie detector in a normal. NO WAY.
I had THEME games with a lie detector in them and the reviewer told me that lie detector is bastard and I should get it out.

[chkflip]

The rules are kind of inconclusive.

[Neruz]

Voterang

Tomie Uzumaki ( 5 ) -

mastin2, Empking, Bowser, Pine, chkflip

hiplop ( 5 ) -

Maxous, Torqez, Hirarky, Toon Fighter, paupam's rat

mastin2 ( 5 ) -

Tomie Uzumaki, malpascp, Phoebus, GreyICE, vezokpiraka

Bowser ( 3 ) -

MintKitten, edmund.angles, zMuffinMan

Toon Fighter ( 1 )-

hiplop

Maxous ( 1 ) -

warriormode

zMuffinMan ( 1 ) -

somerandomguy

11 Votes to Lynch

Day 1 will end at approximately 10:00AM GMT+0 on the 26^th of July.

--EDIT--

Also:

When people say they'll be back in 24 and then don't show up? Feels like someone was prod dodging. Do not like.

Phoebus has actually requested replacement, i thought i said something in the last votecount about that but it seems not. Unfortunately i'm out of ready-to-go replacements so i'm having to wait for a hit in the replacement thread.

[vezokpiraka]

Hoopla and Haylen reviewed the setup. There is no way both of them let a lie detector in the game. No way at all.

Mastin either tried a fail town gambit or is scum fake claiming to save a buddy or whatever WIFOM he thinks he can make.

[zMuffinMan]

Anyone who took that claim seriously probably needs to lighten up.

Wow.

[GreyICE]

Hey muffins, you town this game?

[Toon Fighter]

Mastin is prob gambiting town, just like in previous games. However, in previous games, his gambits didn't always end well (remember tricycle mafia? -.-) and can harm town so I'd take them with a grain of salt. In my opinion, mastin should die before LyLo or he can harm town more. But, since I see him as prob town, I don't want to really lynch him unless it's in town's best interest.

[zMuffinMan]

Hey muffins, you town this game?

Yup.

[Maxous]

Just ignore Mastin's claim.

[Tomie Uzumaki]

'Prod Dodge'
I'll finally be able to get back into the game tomorrow or this weekend >.<

[malpascp]

When I first saw Mastin's claim, I thought he was being sarcastic or it was some kind of joke. Turns out, it's a real claim.
Can someone give me an example a normal game where this role or a similar one existed? I can't find any.

My vote will stay on Mastin for now. And I hope you have a really good excuse do that.

[Empking]

HAHAHAHAHA.

FAIL gambit is FAIL.

unvote
vote mastin

There is no way someone sued a lie detector in a normal. NO WAY.
I had THEME games with a lie detector in them and the reviewer told me that lie detector is bastard and I should get it out.

Your reviewer is weird.

[mastin2]

Gimme another 72 hours or so, and I'll be able to hand you the entire scumteam based off of multiple factors which have transpired in the LAST 72 hours.

In other words, within a week (six days, actually), I'll have nailed the entire scumteam. I'm on to them, now.

[GreyICE]

Hey muffins, you town this game?

Yup.

'kay, why is Mastin's claim a joke?

[edmund.angles]

about hiplop: Not seeing the scumminess, just the newbness.

about mastin: Not buying his claim. But lying about his role to dominate fits with my ego-tripper read on him.
Need to confirm my read though, could someone post some links to recent games with mastin?