Mini 1183: Mafiamatical Mathia - Game over!

[Hoppster]

A lynch has been reached!

Lynch scene incoming.

[Hoppster]

Day 5, Votecount 4

Twistedspoon - 3

[L - 0] (Juls, Morthas, don_johnson)

Morthas - 1

[L - 2]

(Twistedspoon)

Juls - 0

[L - 3]

don_johnson - 0

[L - 3]

No Lynch - 0

[L - 3]

Not Voting - 0

Deadline: Wednesday July 20th at 22:00 BST

Time left:

(expired on 2011-07-20 17:00:00)

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Twistedspoon has been lynched!

You are all sitting around the table, ready for breakfast.

There is an unpleasant suprise though when one of you checks the cereal cupboard.

"Some... some villain has finished the Cheerios!" they cry as the squashed, empty Cheerios packet lies discarded in the corner.

There is a mutual howl of despair at the tragedy.

"Life with Cheerios was bad enough - but life without Cheerios is unbearable!" one of you yells. Fortunately, armed only with a spoon, they are unable to successful slit their own throat.

There are a few moments of sobbing and grieving, but eventually you decide that you must press on. After all, you have evil to catch.

You are all munching on a nice bowl of Cornflakes when Twistedspoon takes a deep breath and stands up at the table.

"My colleagues... I have a confession to make," he says. His voice trembles with nerves, and a solitary bead of sweat drips down his forehead.

As Twistedspoon clears his throat, you all stare at him expectantly in between mouthfuls of Cornflakes and milk.

"I... I finished the Cheerios," Twistedspoon mumbles. "I'm sorry, my friends."

You all spit out your mouthfuls of Cornflakes in shock. Although you can feel the bloodlust rising in you, you are mindful of the innocent lives you have taken in the heat of the moment before, so you calm yourselves down.

"Well, I hope you enjoyed them," you manage to say graciously to Twistedspoon.

"Well," he replies, "the thing is - I poured too much. I couldn't finish it, so I flushed the rest down the toilet."

"YOU FLUSHED OUR CHEERIOS DOWN THE TOILET?!" you scream collectively at Twistedspoon.

Twistedspoon, a

Vanilla Townie

, was lynched Day 5!

Night 5 has begun.

Deadline: Friday July 15th at 0:00 BST

Time left:

(expired on 2011-07-14 19:00:00)

[Hoppster]

Okay. So the toilet is broken, we're out of Cheerios and life in general sucks.

Lynches aside, obviously. You've become strangely addicted to stringing people up with a noose. It's oddly satisfying.

You sigh happily to yourself as images of Twistedspoon's hanging corpse flood back to you. Good times.

If you died now, you'd die happy.

Day 6 begins now!

Day 6, Votecount 1

Morthas - 0

[L - 2]

Juls - 0

[L - 2]

don_johnson - 0

[L - 2]

No Lynch - 0

[L - 2]

Not Voting - 3 (Morthas, Juls, don_johnson)

Deadline: Friday July 29th at 01:00 BST

Time left:

(expired on 2011-07-28 20:00:00)

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.

Juls is completely V/LA until the 18th and semi-V/LA until the 25th.

Mod-Edit:

All players have been added to 'Not Voting'. >.>

[don_johnson]

I now officially hate this game.

[Juls]

I am V/LA starting tomorrow.

So I assume you jailed Morthas?

[don_johnson]

maybe. maybe not. i'm obviously not scum, so a) why aren't you voting?, and b) why aren't you voting?

[Juls]

Yeah whatever, I am ready to get this game over. The only way you are scum is if you had some sort of one-shot kill only which is very strange. If you are scum gg.

Vote: Morthas

[Morthas]

VOTE: Don Because nothing else makes sense.

[Juls]

Unvote

I am not going to vote Don but this should show Don I am town if he has any doubt. I could easily hammer.

[don_johnson]

Thats cute. Considering I jailed morthas.

Juls, if you are scum, then gg.

vote morthas

Hammer away.

[Juls]

Vote Morthas

Don, if you are online come in here and tell me if I hammered wrong and explain it to me so I can go to bed .

[don_johnson]

Town here. Good nite.

[Hoppster]

A lynch has been reached!

Lynch scene incoming.

[Hoppster]

Day 6, Votecount 2

Morthas - 2

[L - 0] (don_johnson, Juls)

Juls - 0

[L - 2]

don_johnson - 1

[L - 1] (Morthas)

No Lynch - 0

[L - 2]

Not Voting - 0

Deadline: Friday July 29th at 01:00 BST

Time left:

(expired on 2011-07-28 20:00:00)

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.

Morthas has been lynched!

It slowly dawns on each of you while you're eating your breakfast (eeugh... Cornflakes) that today is a day like no other so far since the death of poor old Professor Gebra.

Because today is Friday!

♪

♫ It's Friday, Friday
Gotta get down on Friday
Everybody's lookin' forward to the weekend, weekend
Friday, Friday
Gettin' down on Friday
Everybody's lookin' forward to the weekend

Partyin', partyin' (Yeah)
Partyin', partyin' (Yeah)
Fun, fun, fun, fun
Lookin' forward to the weekend ♫

And what better way to start the weekend than by lynching the last scumbag amongst you?

Yes, you've been wrong now 4 times in a row, but man, you have a good feeling about today.

Because today is Friday!

♫ It's Friday, Friday
Gotta get down on Friday
Everybody's lookin' forward...

But while you are occupied singing, one of you pulls out a gun, cackling maniacally.

You gasp in horror. "Juls, it was you all along?"

"What are you talking about?" the person with a gun says. "It's me, don_johnson. You've been working with me for 20 years and you don't know my name (or more worryingly my gender)? Are you serious?"

There's a bang, and then one of you slumps down to the floor, blood pouring freely from the chest.

"That's for not knowing my name, you bastard," don_johnson mutters, looking at the life slowly ebbing from Morthas' body.

"Before you kill me - I just want to know how and why you did all this," Juls begs don_johnson.

"Why would I kill you?"

"Aren't I a dangerous witness or something to your theft of the

'Missing Proof'

?"

"What, me? I didn't steal it. It was Morthas and Kalofer," don_johnson says, smiling. "I've known all along, I just thought it'd be kinda fun to keep it to myself until the last minute. It's not everyday that you get opportunities to hang your work colleagues."

"That doesn't make any sense."

"Who cares? We won! We won, Juls!"

"... You're an idiot. So, where's the proof then?"

"Morthas hid it in his jacket. It's in his inside right pocket."

You both turn to look at Morthas' bloodied, and now very much dead, body.

"... Shit. Blood stains paper, doesn't it? My bad, I forgot."

Morthas, a

Mafia Neighbour

, was lynched Day 6!

Town win

:

don_johnson, Juls, Twistedspoon, theplague42, Oopidstay, implosion, Wickedestjr

and Algebra

!

Setup, Role PMs, Mod-Notes/excuses coming now.

[Hoppster]

Dead QT

Mildly amusing. (That might just be because I'm a bastard though.)

Players

1. theplague42 -
   Vanilla Townie
   
   
2. Twistedspoon -
   Vanilla Townie
   
   
3. Kalofer -
   Mafia Neighbour
   
   
4. Morthas -
   Mafia Neighbour
   
   
5. Juls -
   Vanilla Townie
   
   
6. implosion -
   Vanilla Townie
   
   
7. Wickedestjr -
   Vanilla Townie
   
   
8. don_johnson -
   Town Jailkeeper
   
   
9. Oopidstay -
   Town Cop

Night 1

don_johnson jails Morthas.
Morthas tries to kill Wickedestjr, but is jailed by don_johnson and the kill is blocked.
Oopidstay investigates Twistedspoon. Result: Pro-Town

Night 2

don_johnson jails implosion.
Morthas tries to kill implosion, but implosion is jailed by don_johnson and is protected from the kill.
Oopidstay investigates theplague42. Result: Pro-Town

Night 3

don_johnson jails Juls.
Morthas kills Oopidstay.
Oopidstay investigates Morthas but is killed.

Night 4

don_johnson jails Twistedspoon.

Night 5

don_johnson jails Morthas.
Morthas tries to kill don_johnson, but is jailed by don_johnson and the kill is blocked.

Spoiler: Role PMs

Welcome to Mafiamatical Mathia,

^{[Player Name]}

!

You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

Powers

You have no special powers, only your one vote!

Win Condition:

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Welcome to Mafiamatical Mathia,

^{[Player Name]}

!

You are a

Town Jailkeeper

.

Powers

Each night, you may target a player to jailkeep. This will protect them from one kill for one night and will also roleblock them, meaning that any attempted night actions from that player that night will fail. The targeted player is not informed that they were protected and may or may not be informed that they were roleblocked. You will not be informed if you protected the player from a kill.

Win Condition:

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Welcome to Mafiamatical Mathia,

^{[Player Name]}

!

You are a

Town Cop

.

Powers

Each night, you may target a player to be inspected, thus discovering their alignment. At the end of night, if your investigation is sucessful you will receive a Private Message containing your results: either [Anti-Town] or [Pro-Town].

Win Condition:

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Welcome to Mafiamatical Mathia,

^{[Player Name]}

!

You are a

Mafia Neighbour

.

Powers

You are Mafia-aligned, along with your partner,

^{[Player Name]}

, who is a

Mafia Neighbor

. You may communicate with your partner in this QuickTopic during night. You may also communicate with

^{[Player Name]}

(who is also your Neighbour) in this Neighbourhood QuickTopic during night.

Each night, your Mafia faction may choose one player to kill - you must also specify which of the two of you is performing the kill. If your Mafia team-mate has been killed, you may still perform the kill by yourself.

Win Condition:

You win if Mafia-aligned players comprise half of the remaining living players.

Kalofer/Morthas can release their QTs if they wish to (not a great deal there anyway tbh).

Mod-Notes/Thoughts/Excuses

Spoiler: Setup

Town have two great power roles in the Cop and the Jailkeeper, and Mafia have nothing. Town has a lot of investigative power, and had the Mafia just been Goons (which they essentially are) the setup is pretty stacked against the Mafia. I knew town was powerful, but man, I didn't realise just how powerful they were until we got underway.

However, as was alluded to in my review (by the Normal Game Review Group), town needs power due to the... well, for now, let's say 'shock' nature of the setup. To quote Hoopla:

You might receive a little criticism post-game from duped townies for the slightly bastard-like element of two scum neighbours. I only say bastard as it's completely unexpected from the way meta is currently. It's a perfectly possible and fine role combination, just unexpected. Which is why I think you need decent amount of confirming town power to narrow the pool of possible scumpartners for town in late game.

But, really, I think odds were stacked against the scum-team. Obviously Kalofer dying Day 1 didn't help a great deal, but as it emerged later in the game town had sufficient power to just be able to map out Night Actions and plan for (almost) any outcome. So, alleged bastard-mod shenanigans aside (which I'll get to later) this really is a town-sided setup.

Spoiler: Actual Play

don_johnson played the Jailkeeper very well. Stopping 2 NKs early-game was amazing, and was probably the major, major factor in the eventual Mafia loss (town-sided setup aside, Morthas was pretty much getting a free ride until it was PoE'd down to Morthas-scum).

Oopidstay also had reasonable targets. Although, really, the fact that the people he investigated (Twistedspoon, theplague42) were percieved as scummy detracted from their usefulness, because it pretty much was "Well, cop investigated this guy and he turned up innocent - but this guy is so scummy, he's got to be a Godfather!"

Obviously I'm biased, but I wasn't a fan of how people went "Yeah, well, Morthas isn't scum because the Mod is wrong when he says Morthas could be scum and if Morthas is scum I will RAGE POST-GAME RAWR". Given how I'd made it clear Morthas could be scum, the way people promptly ignored that (to make a point about how the setup was bastardly?) was disappointing.

The worst people were the people who made the above point without then backing it up. Juls, while (incorrectly) ruling out the Mafia Neighbour 2-man Neighbourhood, at least had a reason for doing it (although I think it's wrong as I'll explain later), but there were people who just went "YEAH IT WOULD TOTALLY BE BASTARDLY" without any obvious reasoning.

Spoiler: OMG 2 MAFIA NEIGHBOURS YOU BASTAAAAARD /rage

The game was approved by my reviewers for normalcy and balance

so blame them, not me!

, and I personally agree with the decision completely (obviously if I thought it was unfairly bastardly I wouldn't have suggested it in the first place).

What I just quoted from Hoopla is still applicable in this section so I'll quote it again:

You might receive a little criticism post-game from duped townies for the slightly bastard-like element of two scum neighbours. I only say bastard as it's completely unexpected from the way meta is currently. It's a perfectly possible and fine role combination, just unexpected.

And I wholeheartedly agree with that assessment.

The main case I could see was Juls'. I'll re-quote it here:

I have talked to the mod about this and plan on addressing it with the normal review committee after but the normal roles explicitly states that

Scum masons are disallowed

. I know what Hoopla said, and I know what the mod says but I am going to go based on the assumption that scum masons cannot be allowed and therefore Morthas is town. If it turns out to be different then I will certainly not be a happy camper after the game.

Calling them neighbors would just be semantics because obviously in a 9 person game you would only have one scum team which basically makes them Scum Masons. How exactly would they be alignment unconfirmed as both scum?

I believe this is a bad interpretation of the Normal Game Guidelines.

I agree more with what implosion said:

Masons are alignment-confirmed neighbors. I see what you mean, but the term mason only applies to pro-town roles. And regardless, Kalofer flipped neighbor.

I get that your argument is that if Morthas was also scum, they would be called masons and not neighbors (at least i think that's what you're saying) but masons are strictly pro-town afaik. Actually, I shouldn't say that since I was in a scum-mason group once, but we didn't know we were scum and it was a theme SO. In normal terms, i'm pretty sure masons have to be town.

This is kind of no true scotsman, but masons are generally thought of as a group of players who are all town and all know that each other are town. Neighbors are a group of players who can night-talk, and that's the only special thing about that group of players. They could, theoretically, be alignment-confirmed to each other for reasons outside the neighborhood (like having one be a cop and investigate another, or having two neighbors be scum together and just using the "neighbor" designation to indicate that they can chat).

It's still unlikely, but I don't think it's impossible.

Why?

Well, 'Scum Masons' is generally used to talk about the case where you have a group of Masons, but one of them is Mafia.

Which is without a doubt bastardly, as the Masons are under the impression they're all confirmed to be town to each other but they're actually not.

Neighbours, being derived from Masons (who are confirmed to be pro-town) make more sense in that Neighbours are unconfirmed to be pro-town, rather than unconfirmed to be the same alignment.

Taking the stance that the two Mafia Neighbours, who being confirmed in alignment to each other, are actually Mafia Masons, means that I would bet a whole lot of ongoing Normal games are by the same logic bastardly.

Because, really, under that logic, any scum-group are Mafia Masons and therefore bastardly. They have a QT, they're confirmed in alignment to each other. It would be semantics to argue that because they don't have the 'Neighbour' tagline that they can't be Mafia Masons. Therefore, the only Mafia groups permissible to each other would be when they don't have a QT (and arguably don't know who each other are).

This is obviously wrong, which is where Juls' logic messes up.

With the bastardly semantics ruled out, that leaves the possibly bastardly nature of people not expecting 2 Mafia Neigbours in a 2-Man Neighbourhood as a possibility. Which is fair enough, but then I clearly said that it was possible (and you should therefore expect it as a possibility).

Overall, while obviously I don't like being called a bastard

^*

, I enjoyed modding this and I hope you enjoyed playing, even if you do feel I have been bastardly.

*okay, maybe a little bit

[Juls]

Hoopster, look we won and obviously winning takes off the rage a little bit. But I think Mini Normal is the wrong place to try and "dupe" the town. Had it been anyone else in end game other than myself and Don I don't know if the right decision would have been made. Hell, I unvoted just to PROVE to don that I was town. I think giving them a Godfather would have balanced it just fine instead of playing a mod-trick on people. Or perhaps have 3 people in the neighborhood with one being town. Obviously had I not asked the question early about a neighborhood with only 2 mafia neighbors this would not even been worked out. Morthas would have been confirmed until the end of time. If he hadn't just lurked through the whole game, he probably would have won. Call it women's intuition. And my good pal Don, amazing job. You are the one that really saved us. So many times I went back and reviewed your actions thinking you had to be scum and every time I found good stuff to town-it-away. Thank you brother!

I am obviously going V/LA so I don't have time to rage but I hope to remember to talk to the setup review team when I return. It's not to disparage you Hoopster but I don't think this (Mini Normals) is a good place for it.

Good game town.

[Twistedspoon]

shame on you hoppster

this is no place for dirty tricks

[Twistedspoon]

not sure why morthas targeted implosion though

[Twistedspoon]

nominate Juls for future mini normal reviewer

you know your setup should be a mini normal when you have to defend it >_>

oh, and if hoppster can get away with this then my next mini normal will have 8 millers, 2 cops and 3 mafia godfathers.

[Morthas]

Meh, was as much fun for you as it was for me.
I applaud you Don, amazing blocks ;]

[Twistedspoon]

why kill implosion, morthas

killing Juls would have probably won you the game tbh

[Twistedspoon]

setup aside it was a good game
gg

[theplague42]

oh, and if hoppster can get away with this then my next mini normal will have 8 millers, 2 cops and 3 mafia godfathers.

I wanna play!

Great job town! Although I agree that mafia neighbors are a little unusual, obviously they're beatable.

[don_johnson]

Set up is ok. But the wiki should be updated for future games.

Good job town. Sorry we had to lynch all of you(almost).

Juls, I felt the same way. I flip flopped twice on the last night, but you played very town the whole way.

[Twistedspoon]

oh, and if hoppster can get away with this then my next mini normal will have 8 millers, 2 cops and 3 mafia godfathers.

I wanna play!

Millerfest

TM

201

2

ideally the town don't know the setup so hilarity ensues when all the townies are conf. scum and the scum conf. town