[Mini 1205] Tough Guy Mafia - Game Over!

[HezLucky]

/confirm

WHO WANTS PIE?

(my vote will be based on the answer to this question)

[HezLucky]

Vote: Horrifying Hero

- Long time no see, Mastin.

@Everyone-
1. Do you prefer to be mafia or town?
2. How do you plan to catch the scum?

Also

1. Town. See #2.
2. WITH MY SCUM LAZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZER. It only works if I'm town. If I'm scum, I wind up making an ass of myself.

[HezLucky]

Depends. Is it chocolate?

THIS IS A GOOD ANSWER.

@HezLucky-
1. I don't want any pie.
2. You've lost your scum LAZZZZZZZZER. Now how do you catch the scum? (serious question)

ARE YOU MAKING FUN OF ME FOR PANTS ON HEAD OPEN 302?

[HezLucky]

1. I like town better because it's like solving a mystery, as scum you generally already know the answer.
2. Questioning, observing reactions, etc.

Regarding the Miller claim, I agree that it's null. It saves a cop investigation but past that it means nothing and we should judge HH accordingly.

Vote: YankCane151

EXCELLENT POST THAT TRIES TO LOOK USEFUL AND NOT OFFEND ANYONE.

[HezLucky]

1. Town or Mafia?
Town. I get lynched over emoticons as scum.
2. How do you plan to catch scum?
With rope.

Vote:Hez

You're gonna need more rope.

[HezLucky]

1. I see the game as a massive probability tree that branches at every role and every outcome possible. As scum then I begin with several of the most important branches already set. The aim is always to end up in the set of branches where the win condition is set, and it's easier to work out which set that is when you know the more of the set-up. Both are challenging but I currently prefer scum more because I enjoy trying to convince others to head down the paths that lead to my win condition over trying to work out which paths those are.

Yo I didn't read this. Too many words.

Can you elaborate/explain this please? Thanks.

Yonzy, why no random vote?

I have more to say in a few minutes.

Yes I can. Most people in this game have had a little bit of fun and randomness to your answers, but YankCane seems to think he'll get town cred by answering them completely seriously. There's no attempt to joke around by him, meaning he likely sees it as a risk. Furthermore, his sentence "Regarding the Miller claim" adds nothing substantial to this game, while making it seem like he is doing some early analysis.

Firstly, the point he uses against el simo seems really weak/invalid. I don't see how saying he's been town in all of his other games is meant to imply he's town this game. Secondly, there's no reason for him to add the phrase "It's not a lynch-worthy case at this point, but better than an RV." unless he's scum giving himself room to backpedal. Finally, he adds a jokey reason to his vote despite already having a serious reason. The vote feels off.

I agree, actually. HOWEVER, He may have a point as well. I agree that "the point used against el simo is weak/invalid", as I definitely would not even consider voting a person ont hat alone. HOWEVER, If ConfidAnon considers it a scumtell, and is using a similar system to me (remember my points system where I + and - people, then what el simo did should be good for +1, put el simo in the driver's seat and therefore be better than a random vote to him)

that and I totally got caught as scum once doing exactly what he's doing (voting for someone becaues they are a better-than-random vote on weak evidence) and don't really feel it's a fair scumtell.

But your vote on him looks good.

pedit: shit. ninjad by wicked

It took you 8 minutes to write that post? Are you sure?

Early FOS's: Yank, ConfidAnon

[HezLucky]

EBWOP:

Yes I can. Most people in this game have had a little bit of fun and randomness to your answers, but YankCane seems to think he'll get town cred by answering them completely seriously. There's no attempt to joke around by him, meaning he likely sees it as a risk. Furthermore, his sentence "Regarding the Miller claim" adds nothing substantial to this game, while making it seem like he is doing some early analysis.

Can this point be used against avasthearties who also answered my questions seriously?

No, avasthehearties answered my "WHO WANTS PIE?" question, which satisfies the quota of randomness I'm looking for. He's also not trying at all to be useful.

YankCane is just cautious, period.

[HezLucky]

So as scum you got caught doing something in attempts to appear protown, and this is convincing you he is townie or something??

I'm struggling to follow this line of thought.

I'm saying that, in that particular game, they got lucky. I HAPPENED to be scum. I don't consider it a scumtell.

My thought at the moment are centred on Hez. His reasonings seem to imply that he'd think Confid is scum, or scummy, but he dismisses it as it's not 'fair.'

Doesn't seem like town logic..

Um, what? Explain that better, because the way you have it worded it is not at all what I am saying.

[HezLucky]

So as scum you got caught doing something in attempts to appear protown, and this is convincing you he is townie or something??

I'm struggling to follow this line of thought.

I'm saying that, in that particular game, they got lucky. I HAPPENED to be scum. I don't consider it a scumtell.

My thought at the moment are centred on Hez. His reasonings seem to imply that he'd think Confid is scum, or scummy, but he dismisses it as it's not 'fair.'

Doesn't seem like town logic..

Um, what? Explain that better, because the way you have it worded it is not at all what I am saying.

When I read your post my understand was you got caught as scum voting someone for little next to nothing, to me this move by scum reads as trying to appear pro town, which I do consider a scum tell. I understood it as you saying this is scummy but I'm not going to vote him because I'm upset I got caught when I did it.

I'm not going to vote for him because I don't consider it a scumtell, even though others might. Hence, I understand why they would vote for him.

And if I'm not mistaken, you are voting me for "trying to appear protown". Fair enough. But let us get that first point straight.

[HezLucky]

I see what you're saying. Can't argue against it, because intent is impossible to prove here. But if adding snarky remarks to any post containing gameplay content makes me scummy, then I'm playing the wrong game, because I would be lynched every time (even though I've never been lynched for this before. )

Unvote, Vote: ConfidAnon

Two reasons here:

1) The part in brackets at the end sound like mafia whining over snarky remarks being an unfair thing to lynch over. (Oh look, this tell has come up yet again in my posts)

That's small though, compared to:

2) I'm reading what you are saying and I feel that, given your situation (people are voting you for something stupid like your playstyle), I feel that you really should be showing more frustration than you are. Lack of townie frustration IS a scumtell.

[HezLucky]

Lack of frustration is NOT a scum tell. That is bs. Frustration clouds judgement, why would that be town?

Have you ever played mafia before in your life?

[HezLucky]

And everyone but me is scum until they die, guilty until proven innocent. Some more than others. Page four hasn't separated the others yet, but its starting.

That's ... great. I certainly hope some people are more scum than others though.

Fuck it.

I rewrote each section of that post, pretty much, because I AM FRUSTRATED. But you know what? I can guarantee that if I would have left it the other way, everyone would have cried AtE and voted me anyway. So fuck, I'm done. I'll just ignore posts related to voting me for now on, and focus on everything else. (This plan probably won't work for me, but I can at least try, right?)

This game . . . fadjks;vmkldz,x.zcx,vja;fkgjraeiogj;f

Who do you think is mafia so far?

I'm not sure how differently mafia whining about being wagoned for playstyle and townie frustration over being wagoned for playstyle are supposed to present. Could you clarify the differences between them (preferably but not necessarily with reference to this game)?

Do you know the difference between whining and being frustrated? One has a hint of anger towards it, and it's not the former.

Not a fan of his 95 and his vote is bad at this point (even though I think Yonzy is scummy). His justification has expired.

Can you elaborate on his 95? I may be missing something.

[HezLucky]

Y'know what. I really like the HH bandwagon- even better than my tarsonisocelot vote.

Unvote. Vote: Horrifying Hero

My reasons:
-They've stated two suspicions but haven't explained either of them and haven't made any effort to convince others to follow their vote for me.
-They haven't posted a lot recently. This is especially strange considering they were pretty active the day the game started.
-They are a miller. That, itself, isn't suspicious, but a miller's allignment can't be determined via cop investigation. So we determine their allignment based solely on their play during the day. Horrifying Hero, however, is giving us hardly anything to work with. They're playing with their cards too close to their chest. That isn't the way that a miller should be playing this game.


I still suspect tarsonisocelot, but I'm not explaining why until 2-3 more players post in the thread.

So I read the third point and it really hit home. I did my own ISO of Horrible Hero, who has given us very little in terms of, well, anything. However, the first thing I noticed was that the Mastin hydra is V/LA from July 16 to 22. It's not July 22 yet. How much of this is attributable to that fact? (I am unfamiliar with either hydra head)

Doing a quick meta on lateralus' playstyle yields:
- A quick lookover Newbie 1245 shows that he is more than capable of giving us a decent analysis. Alignment: Town
- Hell, he does it as mafia too. Look at Newbie 970.
(lateralus seems to replace both in and out of a lot of games, so I tried to find some where he was playing throughout. Care to comment on this, lateralus? One somewhat recurring feature is that you give your analysis upon replacing in and then become useless the rest of the game. When, exactly, do you plan on being useful here?)

In conclusion, his meta is frustrating me. I've never seen someone as flaky as him, and I would like to hear what his other head says as well.

EBWOP: He just posted two things. Okay, whatever. I'm still posting the above anyway.

[HezLucky]

Oh, if you think we're scum now, just wait until you hear this!

Unclaim

.

F

irst off, this is a hydra of mastin and ateralus22 in case

A

nyone's unaware.

K

ool, we're both slightly unsure of how we'll be posting (either as one entity or two individuals signing posts, we'll figure it out as we go along.)

btw.

Role Claim: Miller

E

veryone, rvs is now over.

~Lat

Note that F, A, K, and E are the only caps in that post minus the claim itself.

The question I have to ask: why?

[HezLucky]

HH - that doesn't really help... If he's confscum you should be able to describe why in a concise manner.

I disagree with this.

Wicked is living, breathing scum who bleeds off scumtells in every single one of his posts.

My meta on Wicked is that he's actually very good at nailing entire scumteams, so I would prefer to leave him alive at least one more day.

The only way to describe it other than that is to quote every post Wicked's done and explain exactly why he's scum. And I do mean it--I can quote every single post he's done and point out all the scumminess within. He has literally zero town posts this game.

You don't have to do every post, since I won't read it, but please pick a few and do so.

...and that's it. My summary of each post didn't leave anything out. Anyone notice what this iso is missing? Suspicions. A vote. Any thoughts regarding the game. tarsonisocelot hasn't given us anything to work with and aside from 2-3 questions (there was no follow-up to the only answered question), hasn't done any scumhunting. She's scum.

This is true and voteworthy.

I also notice that besides your random vote at the beginning of the game for Kid Know Nothing, you have not made a serious vote as of yet. It also happens that Horrifying Hero called for the wagon on Kid Know Nothing to disband. Your lack of votes, plus your newfound sheeping on Horrifying Hero, reads like confused scum not finding a good place for a vote, so your just going for whatever an experienced player says. After all, he had a GAMBIT. He must know what's going on! (sarcasm) By letting Horrifying Hero direct your vote, you could be trying to evade HH's eye by staying out of his way.

Real scumhunting plus you are going on my original gutread. This is MORE voteworthy.

Unvote, Vote: YankCane

[HezLucky]

There is at least one scum in: Yonzy, avasthehearties, tarsonisocelot

Why? Go look at the activity overview. All three are lurking their butts off, preventing this game from progressing. Since it's stalling the game, it's not at all a pro-town move.

I'm not by any means suggesting to go on a lurker hunt. I want Yank lynched. I've already outlined why [his recent OMGUS tirade against me does him no favours either], but those three names are worth storing in the back of your head for later.

[HezLucky]

Even on second look, both Yonzy and LobsterCatapult are probably due for a prod.

[HezLucky]

Yank wants some answers, so I will give answers.

He claims that I haven't given my case (I have given my primary reason already), as well as accuses me of not answering questions.

Easiest solution? ISO Yank in his entirity.

--------------------ONE-------------------

1. I like town better because it's like solving a mystery, as scum you generally already know the answer.
2. Questioning, observing reactions, etc.

Regarding the Miller claim, I agree that it's null. It saves a cop investigation but past that it means nothing and we should judge HH accordingly.

Still why I'm voting Yank. Trying way too hard to be useful. (Hell, right now, he's trying to scrape together any case he can on me -- reaching would be an appropriate word here -- just to get me off his back. But I don't do that)

Basically, filler and fluff in a time where you're allowed to fool around (RVS) is a scumtell. Later on in the game, one might just be lazy. But at that junction, nobody expects you to be doing anything, so the only motivation is trying to look town.


----------------------TWO----------------------

Look at Yank's behaviour over the course of the game. He cannot actually respond to any of my points, and is freaking out about that, so he decides that the best defense is a good offense. He is trying to shift the focus from himself to me, simply
because I'm attacking him, in hopes that I will go away.

Furthermore, Yank makes it look like he is scumhunting -- but where has he actually committed to anyone? Besdies me, BECAUSE I'M VOTING FOR HIM. Yank's behaviour is highly self-preservationist. Make yourself look good. Pretend you are scumhunting.
But don't actually commit to anyone being scum unless they attack you. This is not scumhunting. Scumhunting means you have opinions on people OTHER than those who are voting for you.


---------------THREE-------------------

Okay, let's get to the posts he makes in response to me:

Hez, You were after Anon until he finally agreed with you on something. I believe you're letting him direct your vote. Is it possible bussing during RVS then teaming later? Sure, but I can't say that for certain yet. #118 is trying to look town but really says nothing "I did an Iso, see! So what they have 3 posts?" (There's no need to brag about doing an ISO, it just screams of looking for towncred), when you were/are voting me for such. #90 Contradicts #50 about unfair scumtells. You wrap up that quote on #50 with "But it's all cool, no worries" (did the same in #67). This gives me a vibe of not trying to offend anyone. Do you see the contradictions with your case on me and your own play? (Keep in mind I think your whole argument is based one 1-2 posts while I can name multiple where you're doing the same thing as me)

Unvote, Vote:Hezlucky

He's directing my vote? I had two suspects, I liked one's response and now I'm testing the other (that's you, by the way). I don't like your response at all.

#118 - Yes, I did an ISO. Yes, I found very little. Would you like me not to post? I was actually contemplating voting the mastin/lateralus hydra before the set of ISOs I did, and I stumbled upon a relevant point (one I was hoping I could have gotten a response to -- but I don't seem to have. lateralus: why do you replace in and out of so many games?)

But your number system is annoying, because now I actually have to look at my own ISO:

Okay, looked at it. Your points are pathetic. You've basically decided ahead of time that I'm scum, and tried to fit the evidence to match your case. I don't know how familiar you are with the game of Mafia, but you can make a reasonable case on ANYONE that isn't obvtown in any game at any time. Games aren't won by cases. They are won by looking for intentions. I believe when you were writing the above post, you were specifically looking for evidence and things you could accuse me of doing rather than objectively evaluating my posts. This makes you either vengeful town, or scum that needs to hang. Seeing as I've already got a scumread on you, I know which one I'll be going with.


BUT I do understand the gist of your argument: You claim that I am voting you for a few small points, that also apply to me. If you think my posts are filler, consider the following similarities between me and you:


HOW YANKCANE AND I ARE SIMILAR (aka. why yankcane thinks I'm voting for him because of things I have also done)

- we both ask questions to others to help us scumhunt and determine alignment
- YankCane thinks we both "are trying to appear pro-town and not offend anyone"

HOW YANKCANE AND I ARE DIFFERENT (aka. the truth about the second point)

- First of all, I could care less whether or not I offend anyone. I've called several people out this game already, a point which you seem to have conveniently forgotten. The second part of your argument is now moot.

- More importantly, the argument that "he's so town he's scum" is a ridiculous one. You can make that argument about anyone who hasn't committed any sort of scumtell. Speaking of fallacious arguments, that's one right there. The reason I am voting for you is, I'll repeat, YOU WERE TRYING TO LOOK PROTOWN DURING A PORTION OF THE GAME WHERE NOBODY EXPECTS YOU TO BE USEFUL. You were posting fluff (ie. things that look like they are game-related, but really say nothing) during a moment where a lot of randomness was happening.

- Oh, and your response to me. You have no case whatsoever, yet you insist that you do and cry that "OMG HEZ IS NOT RESPONDING TO MY POSTS HE MUST BE SCUM". Basically, I wouldn't be holding any of this against you except for the fact that you are voting for me. If you said "Hey Hez, you've done the exact same things, let me list them ALL out for you" and you weren't voting for me, I would think you were trying to prove a point. Yet since you are voting for me, you are instead trying to manipulate the evidence in order to form a case on me. You aren't trying to make a point anymore, you are trying to form a counterwagon. Why should I let your buddies hide while you do the talking? It's very obvious from the way your posts are constructed that you decided AHEAD of time that you wanted to attack someone that was attacking you, and since a) I provided less evidence in my votepost and (b) I had no one suspecting me, meaning that your vote would look more like actual scumhunting, you chose me.

- Finally, if you are town (OH MY GOD WHAT? ... yeah, I'm wrong sometimes. Bite me.), Read Open 302. Not the whole thing. Focus on Me and MagnaofIllusion. Note that our argument over-took the entire game in the later days, and eventually lead to a lynch on a townie and a near guaranteed scum victory. If you continue to attack me, please argue better, because I am quite vengeful and WILL get you lynched if I don't believe you are legitimate. At the moment, I don't think your arguments are (your providing evidence to fit your hypothesis, and not the other way around - I didn't think you were scum until I READ that post of yours. You've essentially made up a case on me and looked for evidence to fit your facts. This is a mafia tactic, not a town one. Vote stands.)




I want to hear from OTHERS on this. I don't really care for having a back and forth dialogue with scum. Especially if it allows Yank's buddies to hide among the carnage.

[HezLucky]

Can you elaborate/explain this please? Thanks.

Yes I can.

Most people in this game have had a little bit of fun and randomness to your answers, but

YankCane seems to think he'll get town cred

² by answering them completely seriously. There's no attempt to joke around by him,

meaning he likely sees it as a risk.

¹ Furthermore,

his sentence "Regarding the Miller claim" adds nothing substantial to this game,

³ while making it seem like he is doing some early analysis.


Early FOS's: Yank, ConfidAnon

Ok, I can only find 3 posts where you may possibly have "outlined my case" against me. (Oooh, and I get to strikethrough more filler.)

ISO # 5(Cropped): This is his main argument, basically wanting to lynch me (Not just a vote, as he just showed in ISO #16, he wants to

lynch

me.) for not being fun and random, assuming I'm being cautious.

Let's look first at the tinge of doubt/fallacies in this quote. In Superscript 1, we see him only saying it is "likely" that I see it as a risk, yet just two words before, says the word "meaning", implying that he already knows the answer. How can you only be slightly sure(implied by likely) while also telling us all the definition of my actions for me?(using the word meaning, again implying omniscent knowledge of me. AKA: Making something out of nothing.)

Really? semantics? You fail. Completely and utterly fail.

This is so much stretching its not even funny. You can ignore the last point in my above post.

Confirm Vote: YankCane

[HezLucky]

Son of a fucking bitch:


Okay

FOS:HezLucky

I skimmed through the thread, I think I might open up on a case of him being scum.

You're free to try. Someone already did, and failed miserably.

If your case is good I might not even attack you over it :O

[HezLucky]

To recap, that's the third time Hez has dodged my case, this time I think he just gave up and is posting less to avoid me calling him out on filler. Fair enough. So now, that validates my points even more, because now he is accepting defeat by not providing a competent defense. Guilty scum maybe? Who knows. What I do know is that No case from Hez can be taken seriously until he answers mine.

Did I mention the possible Anon team? Yes I think I did. Good thing Hez avoiding commenting on that, that would've been a double chainsaw defense!

Come on Hez, you're obviously experienced, don't get defeated so easily. Surely you have more posts where you call my case "horrible"! Surely you can contradict yourself some more! Don't give up this easy! I'm rooting for you to post more, you can do it! (So I can debunk everything else you say too, Unless you magically start being town, which at this point I'm not seeing any town motivation here from anything regarding my case in the last 3-5 posts. Hum de hum.

Is it because it's me? Maybe Vifam's case will help you see what I'm saying. That's okay. There's no need to hate on me, I won't bite, after all I'm 'sure scum' and only 'trying to look town'. Surely no threat to you! If you were town that is.

So what's it going to be Hez? Are you going to put up a fight, like you said you would just a post earlier, or are you going to wave the white flag and let me save some words?

You're funny. No, you don't have a case against me. Nobody in this game thinks you do besides yourself.

I don't think you can possibly be this delusional (because it's _quite_ delusional), so I am convinced you are scum. You're hoping maybe I'll go away if you ask me to respond to paragraphs and paragraphs upon walls, but I will not. I am going to find your buddies, and it will be awesome.

PS. [Protip: Also, don't take this personally - but your method of quoting and then italicizing or brackets or whatever that you do is painfully hard to read. If I'm not even willing to read half of it, what makes you think those in the rest of this game will?]

[HezLucky]

To recap, that's the third time Hez has dodged my case, this time I think he just gave up and is posting less to avoid me calling him out on filler. Fair enough. So now, that validates my points even more, because now he is accepting defeat by not providing a competent defense. Guilty scum maybe? Who knows. What I do know is that No case from Hez can be taken seriously until he answers mine.

Did I mention the possible Anon team? Yes I think I did. Good thing Hez avoiding commenting on that, that would've been a double chainsaw defense!

Come on Hez, you're obviously experienced, don't get defeated so easily. Surely you have more posts where you call my case "horrible"! Surely you can contradict yourself some more! Don't give up this easy! I'm rooting for you to post more, you can do it! (So I can debunk everything else you say too, Unless you magically start being town, which at this point I'm not seeing any town motivation here from anything regarding my case in the last 3-5 posts. Hum de hum.

Is it because it's me? Maybe Vifam's case will help you see what I'm saying. That's okay. There's no need to hate on me, I won't bite, after all I'm 'sure scum' and only 'trying to look town'. Surely no threat to you! If you were town that is.

So what's it going to be Hez? Are you going to put up a fight, like you said you would just a post earlier, or are you going to wave the white flag and let me save some words?

You're funny. No, you don't have a case against me. Nobody in this game thinks you do besides yourself.

I don't think you can possibly be this delusional (because it's _quite_ delusional), so I am convinced you are scum. You're hoping maybe I'll go away if you ask me to respond to paragraphs and paragraphs upon walls, but I will not. I am going to find your buddies, and it will be awesome.

PS. [Protip: Also, don't take this personally - but your method of quoting and then italicizing or brackets or whatever that you do is painfully hard to read. If I'm not even willing to read half of it, what makes you think those in the rest of this game will?]

The worst part is your post against ConfidAnon is exactly the same stuff you are trying to pull against me. Your method of "defending yourself" seems to be attack whoever attacks you, but your over-the-top-delusional attitude screams fake.

[HezLucky]

You are so. scummy. Lets do this one by one.

Couple of wiki links in case anyone wants some more confirmation:

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... the_Person Hez is doing this, Anon is doing this.

Yank is DEFINITELY doing this

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... o_Majority Both doing this to an extent by answering for everyone else.

You fail on so many levels.

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... to_Emotion Hez did this by saying he'd hunt me down and get me lynched if I Kept talking (trying to keep me quiet. ), Anon did this to an extent by being wish washy in his post regarding me but also saying "Hey, I think a little better of you." Where is Hez now? Hiding from my argument, not fighting me.

Fine. I'm going to make you cry. You picked the wrong town member to post garbage against.

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... _Causation Both definitely doing this regarding my actions, as I said, assuming what I'm doing without me saying it, Assuming I'm trying to act pro-town by providing analysis with the miller thing, etc.

No, we aren't doing any of those. We WOULD be, if you were town. Here, there IS causation. Because you are dirty, disgusting scum.

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=ORLYScum Hez definitely using this.

Where? I don't see where I have been using this, but it's a nice little additional link for you to put to make it seem like you're doing work. Actually, you are. You are trying desperately to be too big a thorn in my side for me to want to continue. It's not working.

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Red_Herring Mark this down for Hez's argument too. And Anon's to an extent.

You can't even get your links correct. That's, what? 2/6 that are completely made up.

Ok, that's settled.

Hez, since you're not going to answer my case, at least, answer this(which should have nothing to do with who's asking it, by the way. , Same with you Anon, you already said you'd ignore any post calling you scum, okay, fair enough.) What do you two think of KKN, who has a wagon on him right now? Go ahead and answer, because I find it fishy that you two are sitting on a flimsy case and haven't even touched that bandwagon.

I'm done responding to you until someone other than you (and idiot Vifam who replaced scum Yonzy) starts caring. Rainbow didn't care. Anon thinks you are a moron. I do as well. And we both think you are scum that needs to desperately desperately hang.

You should actually read Open 302. You are Magna. I am Hez. He successfully responded to every single one of my cases (and I had very, very few against him), yet I still got him lynched. But keep flailing. It's funny.

[HezLucky]

Cool story bro.

Cept I attacked you first.

Be more wrong.

[HezLucky]

Cool story bro.

Cept I attacked you first.

Be more wrong.

Are you sure you aren't Magna's alt? He would get a kick out of this. Oh man, I'm going to enjoy this.

We'll both be alive Day 4 and that's when you get lynched. Countdown is on.

[HezLucky]

Man Yank is like Magna. Except scum. It's hilarious.

I'm not reading any of your posts until you go read Open 302.

That's my policy for the rest of the game. If you'd like to revisit this after reading the above game, go ahead.

For now, you are scum and need to die.

[HezLucky]

Man Yank is like Magna. Except scum. It's hilarious.

I'm not reading any of your posts until you go read Open 302.

That's my policy for the rest of the game. If you'd like to revisit this after reading the above game, go ahead.

For now, you are scum and need to die.

Once you've read the above game tell me what you find, then we can resume this argument

[HezLucky]

Cool story bro.

Cept I attacked you first.

Be more wrong.

Are you sure you aren't Magna's alt? He would get a kick out of this. Oh man, I'm going to enjoy this.

We'll both be alive Day 4 and that's when you get lynched. Countdown is on.

Stop turning this into another game. This is different. If justice prevails, you'll be dead today. Why would I even be lynched day 4 if you think I'm scum now?

I thought Magna was scum Day 1 too. I only got enough support for his lynch by Day 4. Who was helping me? the scum. And I didn't really care, because he was acting like you are right now, a pompous, arrogant, annoying ass. Seriously, go read the game.

[HezLucky]

Why do I care that you got someone lynched? I'm not scared of you. If I die, it's even more evident that you're scum, simple. Now you're ignoring me even more for an asinine reason. Yawn.

Can I get anyone else weighing on this? I'm tired of beating a dead horse.

Nope. I got Magna lynched, and I was pretty much confirmed town for it.

Why are you responding to me and not reading the game I have suggested for you? You are obviously afraid you are going to find something that contradicts just about all of your research.

[HezLucky]

Why do I care that you got someone lynched? I'm not scared of you. If I die, it's even more evident that you're scum, simple. Now you're ignoring me even more for an asinine reason. Yawn.

Can I get anyone else weighing on this? I'm tired of beating a dead horse.

You're tired? Bro, I'm the one that has to deal with the 24/7 OCD poster.

[HezLucky]

Why do I care that you got someone lynched? I'm not scared of you. If I die, it's even more evident that you're scum, simple. Now you're ignoring me even more for an asinine reason. Yawn.

Can I get anyone else weighing on this? I'm tired of beating a dead horse.

You're tired? Bro, I'm the one that has to deal with the 24/7 OCD poster.

You've already forced your hand into an argument that has now dominated the game, allowing everyone but us to basically sit back. If you're town, it's an idiotic move. If you're scum, you have taken any attention that may have been on your partners and put it on you.

Which is it?

[HezLucky]

Why do I care that you got someone lynched? I'm not scared of you. If I die, it's even more evident that you're scum, simple. Now you're ignoring me even more for an asinine reason. Yawn.

Can I get anyone else weighing on this? I'm tired of beating a dead horse.

Nope. I got Magna lynched, and I was pretty much confirmed town for it.

Why are you responding to me and not reading the game I have suggested for you? You are obviously afraid you are going to find something that contradicts just about all of your research.

Because you're using it as a scare tactic against me, and that's all. You think you're hot stuff and you can get me lynched, and as I said, I don't care! Lynching me is the worst thing you can do at this point. I implore you to contradict yourself even more.

P.Edit: I'm tired of you failing to answer a simple attack from a "24/7 OCD pompous arrogant ass" (Another Attack on the person and not on the play! That's like, what, #11?) If you're town, clear your name already by answering these questions. Don't bring up fallacies like your meta to try and defend yourself. Because regardless of your townplay one game, You are throwing scumtells everywhere in this one.

P.P.Edit: It's neither. (Another false dilemna) I am attacking you, you are trying to skirt around the defense (obviously.) you are the one making this difficult. And there's nothing wrong in my eyes in having a case against my top scum read being in the main light of the game. And I don't want people to sit back, I want them to comment, too.

CRY MOAR. And go read the game. Stop pretending like you are going to do it and go read it. I am INCREDIBLY stubborn and VERY vengeful. I attacked Magna the entire fuckign game. I had NO support. I was one vote on Magna the entire game. Then I turned it around when teh game got small enough and lynched him. Why? I was town, and since he was so convinced I was scum he was a liability to keep around. Don't be that liability.

Unvote

I've learned my lesson from that game. I won't have support for your wagon this early in the game. But if you are town, you've fucked up majorly.

[HezLucky]

bobsnox: Look again. Determine again. Hez is scum, let's not look elsewhere.

Only a scum would not want to learn more about the person he has gotten into this severe an argument with. You're new, but I'm not. I have a meta. And your refusal to read any of the game I've listed is noted. Why does that make you scum? Because reading dozens and dozens of pages in Open 302 gives yuo no actual payoff, while inventing a case on me does. And it's just that. You are exactly like Magna. I told Magna that he could invent a case on ANYONE in an attempt to get them lynched, but it does not make them scum. Magna did not understand that. I got him lynched as a result. I was frustrated. I am frustrated like that right now too. The thing is: you're dropping all the "scumtells" he dropped (aka. not scumtells) in that you're acting like him, but you've dropped several additional ones as well. Magna didn't tunnel -- you are over the top. Magna wasn't trying to form a case against me at all costs like his life depended on it -- you are. And you are trying to bait me, unlike Magna. It seems like you are trying to intentionally make me angry, and then point and say "OH LOOK HIS REACTION". No, this will not do. Read the game. I want to know what you find. I know you have way more time on your hands than anyone else, and it's a fascinating read or your money back. Then tell me what you find. Because that will cement my read on you.

[HezLucky]

Why do I care that you got someone lynched? I'm not scared of you. If I die, it's even more evident that you're scum, simple. Now you're ignoring me even more for an asinine reason. Yawn.

Can I get anyone else weighing on this? I'm tired of beating a dead horse.

Nope. I got Magna lynched, and I was pretty much confirmed town for it.

Why are you responding to me and not reading the game I have suggested for you? You are obviously afraid you are going to find something that contradicts just about all of your research.

Because you're using it as a scare tactic against me, and that's all. You think you're hot stuff and you can get me lynched, and as I said, I don't care! Lynching me is the worst thing you can do at this point. I implore you to contradict yourself even more.

P.Edit: I'm tired of you failing to answer a simple attack from a "24/7 OCD pompous arrogant ass" (Another Attack on the person and not on the play! That's like, what, #11?) If you're town, clear your name already by answering these questions. Don't bring up fallacies like your meta to try and defend yourself. Because regardless of your townplay one game, You are throwing scumtells everywhere in this one.

P.P.Edit: It's neither. (Another false dilemna) I am attacking you, you are trying to skirt around the defense (obviously.) you are the one making this difficult. And there's nothing wrong in my eyes in having a case against my top scum read being in the main light of the game. And I don't want people to sit back, I want them to comment, too.

CRY MOAR. And go read the game. Stop pretending like you are going to do it and go read it. I am INCREDIBLY stubborn and VERY vengeful. I attacked Magna the entire fuckign game. I had NO support. I was one vote on Magna the entire game. Then I turned it around when teh game got small enough and lynched him. Why? I was town, and since he was so convinced I was scum he was a liability to keep around. Don't be that liability.

Unvote

I've learned my lesson from that game. I won't have support for your wagon this early in the game. But if you are town, you've fucked up majorly.

Ok, basically, from what I saw, you vote-parked all game (not doing that to me), you lynch townies for the fun of it, and this is supposed to scare me?

I'm not crying, you're the one who is flopping around on nothing. You can't defend yourself, only bring up metas which are hardly relevant. I am

NOT SCARED

of you lynching me. Get that through your head. Just realize that I can be just as stubborn as you, if not more. I don't care if you're vengeful. Heck, this sets up a perfect lynch of you if I turn up dead tomorrow morning! You just admitted you'd do anything to kill me. Great!

You're running scared, you're cornered, and you can't defend yourself. You unvoting me does not matter. You need to defend yourself before I take my vote off. Now you think I'm town for some reason. Okay. Cool. I still think you're scum. Don't worry about support. Push your case and stop being ignorant.

READ THE GAME. Don't skim through it. Read it. You will get nothing from skimming through it. Nothing at all. Read it from start to finish. You can probably skip Day 1, which is like a third of the game, but read the rest.

I find it very interesting how you are willing to put in SO MUCH WORK to BUILD a case on me yet put in NO WORK to help determine its VALIDITY.

And yes, I will happily lynch a townie if I think they are bullshit idiotic scumbag.

[HezLucky]

RDash: Why is the lynch pool only of 2 players? What would each of their flips find? Why do I need to drop my case if Hez is being more stubborn than me?

Because he is probably town, and you are probably town, and if everypony would realize that the best way to deal with a situation like this one is to diffuse it, use a lynch flip then followed by the night actions to learn more about the ponies in the arguement its better. You are not allowed to argue "more stubborn" either as a reason to carry on an attack, this isnt eye for and eye and hoof for a hoof.

Lynch pool is two because those are my two strongest scum reads. Their flips catch scum and/or clear up reads on neutral players while cementing stronger reads.

Also please tell me you are kidding with Anon scum. I mean, if thats serious you are making Derpy look like Twilight.

@bob - There we go. Voice of reason. While HH is more of an unpredicatble entity in this game, they arent a great lynch. The continual ignoring of the game is a slight tell, especially given that mastin is known for being one of the more overboard posters and Lat is definantly competent. Just would rather go in a different direction

I see Hez has come around. Good. We can start to move on.

Why is Anon town? Why is Hez town? Why are you trying to diffuse this? Why is bob a voice of reason?

Why are you helping Anon and Hez so much, without explaining it.

I just realized you're the third and final person who is appearing pro-town without actually being so. You just want a lynch on anyone, excpet of course, Hez and Anon.

Game Set and Match folks.

I don't think you are town. No. You've dropped scumtells before I started attacking you, and I'm not going to ignore those.

[HezLucky]

For the umpteenth time, You are dodging my case. I am not voting you for no reason, stop trying to paint it like such. Don't answer me with a meta because every game is still different. For one, you were town that game, and you are not conf. town this game. If I'm worse than Magna, put your vote back on me if you are as "vengeful and stubborn" as you say you are. Don't be scared, I'll only catch more contradictions. No big deal for good ol' townie Hez!

You and Anon have both said "I'm frustrated, I won't read your posts" this game. Interesting. For one, show don't tell. Your words mean nothing, your actions do. You are scared and defenseless, not frustrated. Answer the questions in THIS game, don't bring up meta.

Nobody can be this dense.

This is the, what, twentieth time you are refusing to read the game? You call the meta "hardly relevant", yet this is EXACTLY, almost to the tee, what has happened that game. Except I'm angry with you far earlier than I was angry with Magna.

You can catch all the contradictions you want. It did not help him. I was town.

[HezLucky]

For the umpteenth time, You are dodging my case. I am not voting you for no reason, stop trying to paint it like such. Don't answer me with a meta because every game is still different. For one, you were town that game, and you are not conf. town this game. If I'm worse than Magna, put your vote back on me if you are as "vengeful and stubborn" as you say you are. Don't be scared, I'll only catch more contradictions. No big deal for good ol' townie Hez!

You and Anon have both said "I'm frustrated, I won't read your posts" this game. Interesting. For one, show don't tell. Your words mean nothing, your actions do. You are scared and defenseless, not frustrated. Answer the questions in THIS game, don't bring up meta.

Nobody can be this dense.

This is the, what, twentieth time you are refusing to read the game? You call the meta "hardly relevant", yet this is EXACTLY, almost to the tee, what has happened that game. Except I'm angry with you far earlier than I was angry with Magna.

You can catch all the contradictions you want. It did not help him. I was town.

My case is far past contradictions at this point. You are blatantly skirting around anything regarding my pressure on you. With meta. Not hard answers, not anything regarding this game, just a good ol' rivalry you had townie to townie. Am I town or am I scum? Tell me. Now you're telling me that I'm town to keep me off your back (comparing me to Magna that is), but that won't work.

Originally scum. I'm unsure. Still leaning scum due to your refusal to meta. The ONLY reason you wouldn't want to meta (given how much time you clearly have on your hands) is because it would contradict the last six pages for you. So you half-assedly put together a fake read (that lasted all of about 3 minutes) rather than do some actual scumhunting. For that, you are scum.

[HezLucky]

Please, your argument is pathetic. You refuse to answer relevant points and instead focus on my refusal to read one single meta, and then present that as my position in an attempt to fool someone who would only quickly skim through the debate.

You are scum, you know it, I know it, your buddies know it. You even know your case against me is garbage from #229. You've switched from me appearing pro-town to me not reading a meta. Sigh.

ViFam: Yes, it's most likely Rainbowdash.

MY argument is pathetic? That's hilarious. Have you actualyl READ over your first post? Admittedly, I haven't read over your last several, because they are laughable. Anon agrees. Rainbow doesn't even think this conversation between us is worth pursuing, because she KNOWS that you are driving the argument, and that it has no merit.

Bro, go outside. This is now teh 21st time you have refused to meta me.

[HezLucky]

Please, your argument is pathetic. You refuse to answer relevant points and instead focus on my refusal to read one single meta, and then present that as my position in an attempt to fool someone who would only quickly skim through the debate.

You are scum, you know it, I know it, your buddies know it. You even know your case against me is garbage from #229. You've switched from me appearing pro-town to me not reading a meta. Sigh.

ViFam: Yes, it's most likely Rainbowdash.

MY argument is pathetic? That's hilarious. Have you actualyl READ over your first post? Admittedly, I haven't read over your last several, because they are laughable. Anon agrees. Rainbow doesn't even think this conversation between us is worth pursuing, because she KNOWS that you are driving the argument, and that it has no merit.

Bro, go outside. This is now teh 21st time you have refused to meta me.

This is now the 48th time you have refused to answer my case. Yes, it quite is pathethic, considering you have switched stances in a last-ditch attempt to kill me. You know I have you. Why aren't you voting me for pete's sakes? You think I'm scum don't you? Don't be scared of me. What is even the point of including Anon and Rainbow's opinions for them? Nothing, that's what. Just another attempt to try and discredit me. The only way you're doing that is by answering my case instead of calling it a laughable joke because

YOU KNOW YOU CAN'T DEFEND YOURSELF AGAINST IT!

You are screaming "Lynch me" right now. It is quite preposterous that you are continuing to ignore anything related to pressure on you. You are squirming like a worm here.

#22.

Read the policy post. I said I'm not reading anything longer than "really" short" if it comes out of your mouth until I've seen your analysis of that meta. Why should I waste my own time and everyone else's when you can just as easily read a fucking mafia game and come to teh same damn conclusion everyone eles is?

But keep trolling, troll. You are squirming like a prostitute on the corner of Main and 3rd.

[HezLucky]

Why is Anon town?

His ISO.

It continually shifts viewpoint not to go along with the pacing of the game but instead to respond to point that are made for and against people being scum, without showing any real motivation to move towards or away from certain players baselessly which tend to be indicative of scum. The only way I start to secondguess this read is with a Tarin-scum flip, even then though, he is a leaning town player.

Why is Hez town?

Gut, and a few weak tells up and down the game.

Why are you trying to diffuse this? Why is bob a voice of reason?

I want to diffuse this because its massively counter intuative and if you guys really are both town, exactly what scum want to create and will thrive off of in these games, which is why we are going to stop it. Bob either realizes this, or doesnt realize it and still has come to the correct path of action.

Why are you helping Anon and Hez so much, without explaining it.

You arent going to listen to reason either way, and this situation is unique as neither of you are actually obviously town like most people are when the time to shut down arguements normally is. Attacking the core of the problem is going to be best instead of reasoning with it.

I just realized you're the third and final person who is appearing pro-town without actually being so. You just want a lynch on anyone, excpet of course, Hez and Anon.

Except of course Hez, CA, you, HH, bob, LC, Yonzy and maybe wicked and avas. Reading is fun.

What do you think of my post on CA way back when? (My iso #23 way back when)

Why is it counter intuitive? I believe very strongly that Hez is scum, what is wrong with me continuing to state my case? Why do you think I won't listen to reason? I've been asking Hez for reason the whole game!

The word of the day is DELUSIONAL.

From a Yankees fan, it's to be expected.

[HezLucky]

Rainbow: That's all well and good, but it's not like they're the only ones I'm talking about. Heck, even in my posts to them, I've asked them about other things in the game (like the KKN wagon), which they also haven't answered. What do you want me to do now? Just sit back and lurk because no one will listen to me?

In my eyes, my case is productive. Yes, we are a town, and yes, I am going to continue to be involved with other things in the game besides Hez. But in no way will I Let Hez coast through the game either just because you say I should stop. If that's the case, then basically the reason you want me to stop (because I'm letting scum slip) would be the same thing that you're going to let Hez and Anon do, and I don't think they're confirmed town. Am I confirmed town too? Who else is confirmed town to you? Do you see how this could get out of hand?

You're making stuff up like "the flow of the game". Forget the flow of the game. Make Hez answer the questions. Make Anon defend himself. I don't want to drag it out, I just want answers(I think I've said this almost every post over the past 3-4 pages, yet they continue to make excuses). It's not my fault that they can't answer them.

I'm not moving my vote until someone convinces me with a better case, or Hez defends himself, simple. You have your vote, I have mine. I'm not going to stop partaking in the town activities.

If Hez is just simply not going to answer MY questions(Where's Vifam's case, by the way?), then he better at least contribute to the town in other ways.

--

I was hoping for a more indepth look at the specific reactions to the claim from HH. The points lat made regarding Wicked make my original gutread feel a little better.

Tarson/Simo/Avas all need way more content.

You're a troll. I'm not feeding you. And I don't suggest anyone else do either.

Also:

I'm not moving my vote until someone convinces me with a better case, or Hez defends himself, simple. You have your vote, I have mine. I'm not going to stop partaking in the town activities.

[HezLucky]

Have reread about half the game. Will have a big post within 24 hours after my driving exam tomorrow.

[HezLucky]

Mod/Everyone: V/LA for a little while - getting my laptop fixed it fell down and the fan broke about an hour ago.

I'll have transient access. Shouldn't need replacing, but I will follow up. Don't expect any 5 page arguments from me though.

[HezLucky]

Look, I've read through >half the game. At that point, I'm pretty sure our scum consists of: Yank, Wicked, Yonzy.

My notes are on my broken laptop, though. Nevertheless, I'm fine with a Wicked lynch. I'm not about to stall this game when I think I know who the scum are.

unvote, Vote: Wicked

[HezLucky]

Alright, so I'm not caught up, but I'm pretty much there. Forgot the days were two weeks and noticed I have 4 votes, so I'll post my current thoughts now. Below is the playerlist in order from most townish to most suspicious...

Town
====
Kid Know Nothing
YankCane151
Rainbowdash
bobsnox
HezLucky
LobsterCatapult
Vifam
Horrifying Hero
tarsonisocelot
ConfidAnon
el simo
avasthearties
====
Scum

Unvote. Vote: avasthearties

Reasons later. First I'm going to defend myself. There are so many things wrong with the points against me.

You have scum reads on most of my town reads...

[HezLucky]

Hi Wicked,

My wall is not done. But here are the two main points I am voting for you: (I haven't reread anything after the Yank/Hez argument)

POINT 1: META
Wicked #44 is noted for possible connection to Yank. Really? How are you the only person in this game that
actually needs an explanation of my original vote for Yank? I don't believe that, given the solid player
that you were in Open 302. [[Seriously, people have replaced into this game and called my original post on Yank a good one. The fact that neither you nor Yank can understand that does not strike me at all as town]]
{{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- WICKED IS 10% MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}}

POINT 2: CONNECTION TO SCUMBUDDY
Yank and Wicked are buddies baesd on #47-#49. Wicked starts arguing with Yank, and Yank gives him nothing,
no sort of crap that he gave me, since a) he's [Yank] not under pressure and (b) he's [Yank] too new to realize getting
into an argument with your scumbuddy is a good tactic d1.
{{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- BOTH YANK & WICKED ARE 40% MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}}


tl;dr -

I strongly believe Yank is scum. And early posts suggest you as an obvious scumpartner, given his lack of pressure on you and tunneling on me.

[HezLucky]

Going to do a reread of the game. Going to ignore anything involving he-who-shall-not-be-named, lest it
cause me excessive anger and cloud my judgement.

I will start everyone off at 1.7 Richter. SCUM LAZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZER will be activated at a number that
will not be disclosed.

Wicked #22 - INTENTIONALLY ignoring HH's miller claim. {No change}

Avasthehearties #25 - intends to catch scum by asking questions. Time to check out the CONSISTENCY METER.
{This is a placeholder until later on where I see whether or not avas was asking questions}

HH #26 - A confirm vote this early. What? Actually, this sounds like HH is doing something similar to his
miller claim -- he is reaction testing, and this seems like what appears to be their style of scumhunting.
I like the consistency, and scum have no reason to draw attention to themselves like this this early.
{{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- HH IS 20% LESS LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}}

YankCane was likely overtaken by my strong personality earlier, but given my initial post and his ridiculous
overreaction, he seems like scum that has been backed up against a wall.
{{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- YANK IS 20% MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}}

Bobsnox #32 - Claims that "asking for scumlists" is how he will catch scum. This is recorded here for later,
to see whether or not he has been consistent.

ConfidAnon #35 - this is actually hwat he HAS been doing. ConfidAnon has been looking for scumtells all
game, and then evaluating them in the context of the game.
{{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- CONFIDANON IS 10% LESS LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}

el simo #36 - lolwut. Are you playing WIFOM?

KKN #40 - I like his response to my "you're gonna need more rope". Confident. That's not a towntell for me,
though, as it depends more on playstyle (and zomg gender too i gotta stop lynching girls over this)

tarson #41 - I couldn't make heads or tails of his answer to wicked's 1st question.

Wicked #44 is noted for possible connection to Yank. Really? How are you the only person in this game that
actually needs an explanation of my original vote for Yank? I don't believe that, given the solid player
that you were in Open 302.
{{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- WICKED IS 10% MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}}

I've already explained, in a previous post, my opinion about Wicked #45. This un-does the change above.

Lobster #46 - Not sure what to think of tihs. If I didn't have a townread on ConfidAnon, I would consider
this a good reason to vote.

Yank and Wicked are buddies baesd on #47-#49. Wicked starts arguing with Yank, and Yank gives him nothing,
no sort of crap that he gave me, since a) he's not under pressure and (b) he's too new to realize getting
into an argument with your scumbuddy is a good tactic d1.
{{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- BOTH YANK & WICKED ARE 40% MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}}

Yonzy #56 - Yonzy is noob and is being way too careful with not offending anyone here. Kinda like Yankcane,
but Yonzy's ACTUALLY APOLOGIZING.
{{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- YONZY IS 20% MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}}

Yank #59 - "Caution isn't always a scumtell, by the way" -- so Yank seems to think "aggressive = town" and
"cautious = scum", as a general rule. I'm pretty sure (I THINK IT WAS MASTIN) I've read an article on that
before too, and that could explain why Yank decided to go at me so ridiculously hard.

bobsnox #70 - I liked bobsnox's list of who he was getting scumvibes for, but then I found it questionable
that he would continue to vote for Lobster.

HH #71 - God admn we've solved the game already. Yank/Wicked/Yonzy are the mafia. Let's go home everyone.
But I'm not going to get into "Thinks like Hez" theory, because that will be another 5 pages of arguing.

YankCane #73 is actually a good post.
{{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- YANK IS 10% LESS LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}}

ConfidAnon #74 - "better than a randmo vote" IS A LEGIT VOTE PEOPLE. It is a null tell, because I was scum
when I did it in a previous game and town was pressuring me heavily, but IT'S A LEGIT VOTE, FFS.

Yonzy #75 - Yo, Yonzy is def scum. No scumhunting whatsoever. Just whining about being caught.
{{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- YONZY IS 20% MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}}

Bobsnox #77 I guess answers my question about bobsnox #70.

ConfidAnon #96 in hindsight is legit frustration. Very very legit.
{{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- CONFIDANON IS 40% LESS LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}}

Bob #100 - I like Bob's vote on Yonzy in the previous post, yet just as quickly he switches over to KKN.
Bob, make up your mind. I can't really evaluate any of this until some flips happen, though.

Third; How is it pro-town to ever ignore a post? No matter how small?

This is hilariously wrong given what winds up happening later in the game.

Don't like el simo #104. That doesn't seem like a legitimate reason at all to vote for someone, esp given
that KKN already had votes on him at that stage.
{{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- EL SIMO IS 10% MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}}

Wicked #130 on tarson, when wicked FINALLY posts something, is true. Tarson, up to that point, had
not done any scumhunting. But given that its coming from Wicked, who is starting to approach a strong
scumread for me, I'm hesitant on giving tarson too many points for this.
{{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- TARSON IS 10% MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}}

Tarson #142 - okay Tarson is town. He just came up with the EXACT SAME SCUMLIST I currently have
{Yank, Wicked, Yonzy} and he did it before me. "Thinks Like Hez" - fuck meta, it hasn't helped me
catch scum, but it's caught me a lotta confirmed town =D
{{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- TARSON IS 15% LESS LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}}

Yank #143 - you are fucking kidding me, right? Man, if I read any more of this I'm just going to wind up
putting him at 15.0 Richter and this whole exercise will wind up as being completely pointless.

After HezLucky #164, Yank accusing me of not responding to him has no merit. And I will leave it at that.
My #164 has more substance than all of Yank's posts against me put together. (He even admits some of his
posts like the WIKITELLS one were complete garbage later on)

Fuck, I knew I shouldn't have read his posts. I'm just going to do this and ignore him the rest of the game:
{{{{{{RICHTER SCALE -- YANK IS 500% MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}}

I don't have a newborn, but I would bet him at this stage. Way too much crap logic from Yank to be town.

Oh man I just skipped over Yank's #168 without reading it. That feels so good. Though I will read his posts
that don't pertain to me. It will allow me to catch his partners, AS I HAVE PROMISED.

Rainbowdash #170 - This quote, specifically

What are the town reactions? The scum reactions? Remember what I said about how everpony is different in their reactions and mindset? I sincerly doubt that this will manage to catch scum at a greater rate then scum exist in the game.

sounds like excessive asking of questions to look like scumhunting. Asking questions is a legitimate way
to scumhunt, as long as the questions are LEGITIMATE. I don't believe these are.

{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- RAINBOWDASH IS 10% MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}

I gotta stop putting emotion into this game though. That's why I stop playing for days sometimes. I read
ConfidAnon #178 and I want to put him as 1000000000% less likely to be scum, but my only justification is
that he's defending me. I can't in my right mind do that.

I skimmed through the thread, I think I might open up on a case of him being scum.

This was in response to me. That case has never come. Did I mention he's replacing someone I think is scum? I want to see what kind of crap he spews.


This also occurred durign the Yakn/Hez argument:

Kid Know Nothing - 5 (Yonzy, avasthearties, bobsnox, el simo, Rainbowdash)

There HAS to be scum somewhere in this lynch.

How, bout, you know? Actually commenting on the Hez/Yank thing that, at this point, is TWO PAGES IN? Why try and change the topic if not to put your buddy Yank under less pressure?

{{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- VIFAM IS 10% MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}}

Rainbow #234 - I've got my eye on you. Playing mediator is a great way to gain town cred.

Now that I think about it. IF Yank is town (and the only way I will think this is with a flip), Rainbow
is probable scum. A lot of buddying to Yank. But it's, like, the really obviosu type. The type you wouldn't
do with a scumbuddy because you'd be called on it immediately.

With that being said, I now have an even stronger townread on Horrifying Hero due to post #287. If he
doesn't think Yank is scum, then that's a REALLY good scumlist he has posted (Wicked/Vifam/Rainbow). Though,
a good part of my case against Wicked is because of his connection to Yank, so I doubt this is all right.
Still.
{{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- HH IS 15% LESS LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}}

Yank's #312 sudden bandwagon vote on Tarson is supersketch, though. It seems like he wanted to OCD me out of
voting for him, and then pops onto another wagon to guarantee his ass is safe for one more day.
{{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- YANK IS 10% MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}}

Bobsnox #326 - Hey Bob, your unvote is clearly a case of town OMGUS. You are voting tars because he expressed
suspicion of you. I have a better idea -- get your vote back on Yank, and we can actually lynch scum.
{{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- BOB IS 10% LESS LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}}

Friend #337 - Townread. This is a good catchup post. Suspicion of Yank/Wicked, a solid understanding of why
Rainbow could potentially be scum, and damn good scumhunting. Basically, he says all the stuff I'm saying
here, but before I did.
{{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- FRIEND IS 10% LESS LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}}

Change would be stronger but I'm afraid that if Friend is just simply a good player that would nullify the
town read completely.

Rainbowdash #340 - In respones to "Yank attacking Hez is super hard" - well, no, Yank was MAKING IT super hard
FOR ME by being constantly OCD, putting together fake cases and insisting onr esponses to said garbage.
Getting into an argument with a tough player to argue with is one thing, posting nothing but OCD crap to make
him go away, on the toher hand, I believe to be a scumtell.

avasthehearties #346 - What is with this bobsnox vote? It seems so random. The question is: who are
you trying to protect? I would like an answer to this.

Scum list would be bob, HH, KKN. Also, YANK IS NUMBER ONE TOWN AND HEZ IS ONLY NUMBER TWO

Hey el simo: Why does your scumlist suck so hard? Yank as number one town? Fail harder.

Fuck. Bobsnox #368 is pointing out exactly what I felt, and rainbow only feels the need to attack and
discredit him in #369. Fuck this.
{{{{{RAINBOWDASH IS 20% MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}
{{{{{BOBSNOX IS 10% LESS LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}

Wicked #394 - Your scumlits sucks. Are you even scumhunting? Or putting together a list that you think will
make you look good? HH si town. Anon is town. Yank/Rainbow are high candidates for scum. Vifam is neutral
to you? what the fuck? You nailed the scum in Open 302 and in other games. I don't believe this shit.
{{{{{WICKED IS 10% MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}

Lobster #403 - where the hell have you been all game? Wait, so YOU are FRIEND? Is Friend gone now? Nooooo.

Pedit: no one's going to read 16 pages. Good grief.

I will. His scumlist looks really good. I will read every single fucking part.

SUMMARY -
{once a player reaches a sufficient Richter, I fire my SCUM LAZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZER at them}
Yank - 16.5 Richter {LAZZZZZZZZZZZZER LOCKED AND LOADED}
Yonzy/Vifam - 2.6 Richter
Wicked - 2.6 Richter
Rainbowdash - 2.3 Richter {Rainbow is scum if Yank flips town}
===THREE OF THE FOUR ABOVE ARE YOUR SCUM===
el simo - 1.9 Richter
All Players Not Listed - 1.7 Richter
Tarsonisocelot - 1.6 Richter
Friend - 1.5 Richter
bobsnox - 1.3 Richter
===THE TWO BELOW PLAYERS ARE MY OMG THEY ARE SUPEROBVTOWN READS===
HH - 1.2 Richter
ConfidAnon - 0.9 Richter


Guys, I'm completely sure that Yank is scum. There were a few votes on him earlier. Those votes need to go
right back on him. Are you just going to let him OCD you out of voting for him? I'm not.

Unvote, Vote: YankCane

His flip also gives me information regarding Rainbowdash's alignment, as I am struggling to read her.
(They are opposite alignment, FWIW)













ALSO I HAVE A REQUEST.

It's rather extensive on Wicked, Vifam, and Rainbowdash being the scumteam, every bit as long as promised and then some--not even Mastin anticipated it being this conclusive. The level of detail is worth it, though.

GOOD GOD MAN FUCKING POST THIS. THIS MIGHT WIN US THE FUCKING GAME. LOOK AT MY SCUMLIST. IF I'M WRONG ABOUT YANK, YOU'VE JUST NAILED ALL THREE SCUM. WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?

[HezLucky]

Oh look, every single one of my scumreads is voting for avasthehearties. I smell that being a counterwagon.

{Looks to see who it's a counterwagon against}

Oh, that's right.

Unvote, Vote: Wicked

[HezLucky]

I did a quick check. Right now I have the wagons at 5-5:

Wickedestjr - 5 (Horrifying Hero, tarsonisocelot, HezLucky, LobsterCatapult, ConfidAnon)
avasthearties - 5 (Kid Know Nothing, bobsnox,

wickedestjr, Rainbowdash, YankCane

)
bobsnox - 2 (avasthearties, el simo)
HezLucky - 1 (Vifam)

Of course, two problems:
- We have three useless votes. As much as I want to lynch YankCane, I can't fucking do it today. Just like none of the 3 people not on Wicked or avast are going to get their choice today. This CLEARLY looks like a case of town versus scum.

My biggest problem? Nearly all of my town reads are on Wicked, as well as myself, and I absolutely despise those on the avast wagon. I have scum reads on thoes that are bolded, as well as Vifam.

Oh, and there's another problem. It's this guy:

hey I'm good with that too, and even more sure Wicked is not scum.

You play this game with your emotions, and not with your head. It's how I play as well. It makes you obvtown as fuck. Unfortunately, it makes you wrong more often than not. Pointblank: you're on the wrong wagon.




EBWOP: el simo, a lot of the (my) problem with Wicked is, like, the 10 billion connections we see between him and certain other people in this game that could potentially be his scumpartners. In other words, I don't like his interaction with others. Especially with those on the wagon counter to his. I've seen your scumlist, el simo, and it's just so... different ... from anyone else's in this game (IIRC) that I don't think anyone's going to be convincing you of Wicked-scum without some flips changing your scumdar. Still, your vote is useless where it is and you should move it.

[HezLucky]

I did a quick check. Right now I have the wagons at 5-5:

Wickedestjr - 5 (Horrifying Hero, tarsonisocelot, HezLucky, LobsterCatapult, ConfidAnon)
avasthearties - 5 (Kid Know Nothing, bobsnox,

wickedestjr, Rainbowdash, YankCane

)
bobsnox - 2 (avasthearties, el simo)
HezLucky - 1 (Vifam)

Of course, two problems:
- We have three useless votes. As much as I want to lynch YankCane, I can't fucking do it today. Just like none of the 3 people not on Wicked or avast are going to get their choice today. This CLEARLY looks like a case of town versus scum.

My biggest problem? Nearly all of my town reads are on Wicked, as well as myself, and I absolutely despise those on the avast wagon. I have scum reads on thoes that are bolded, as well as Vifam.

Oh, and there's another problem. It's this guy:

hey I'm good with that too, and even more sure Wicked is not scum.

You play this game with your emotions, and not with your head. It's how I play as well. It makes you obvtown as fuck. Unfortunately, it makes you wrong more often than not. Pointblank: you're on the wrong wagon.




EBWOP: el simo, a lot of the (my) problem with Wicked is, like, the 10 billion connections we see between him and certain other people in this game that could potentially be his scumpartners. In other words, I don't like his interaction with others. Especially with those on the wagon counter to his. I've seen your scumlist, el simo, and it's just so... different ... from anyone else's in this game (IIRC) that I don't think anyone's going to be convincing you of Wicked-scum without some flips changing your scumdar. Still, your vote is useless where it is and you should move it.

Basically, the speed at which the Avast counterwagon has grown next to Wicked has me worried as fuck. Especially given that I can see Wicked as scum with EVERY SINGLE PERSON who just helpedt he Avast wagon grow. Avast town read now for this reason.

My reads:

Scum: Yank, wicked, Rainbow, Vifam
Town: HH, ConfidAnon, bobsnox
Null leaning Town by PoE: everyone else

[HezLucky]

Lynch scum first, find buddy later!

This is exactly why I'm voting for Wicked. I already believe I've found the scum. It's just a matter of figuring out which one of my 4 reads I'm wrong about.

[HezLucky]

Also my reads are different from everyone elses, they're different from yours. Which don't make sense,

you repeatedly slam bobs posts but still rate him as townie. And HH has done nothing this entire game but dribble and you calling him town as well.

Townie's can be idiots too.

HH has done nothing this game but post WELL and post in a manner that is consistent with how I would expect town to think and scumhunt.


Also, every time I see Yank post I pray harder and harder for (m/g)od to give me a daykill.

[HezLucky]

And what happens if I turn up dead tomorrow and you never answer my question? Trust me, this question matters to me because I think it's important enough to note if there is indeed a team of you and Hez. You liking his post isn't the issue; it's the fact that me and him are playing similar (I'd argue he's more focused on irrelevant things than I am, but that's neither here nor there) but you're ragging on me for it and praising Hez for it. What's the difference?

You answering this one question won't take away from any discussion or anything, so just answer it.

Because I'm calling him town and you're attacking him (or not calling him town. Iunno haven't paid enough attention to you versus bob)

He plays emotionally. It does not make him scum.

[HezLucky]

Response and questions to Hez:

POINT 1: META
Wicked #44 is noted for possible connection to Yank. Really? How are you the only person in this game that actually needs an explanation of my original vote for Yank? I don't believe that, given the solid player that you were in Open 302. [[Seriously, people have replaced into this game and called my original post on Yank a good one. The fact that neither you nor Yank can understand that does not strike me at all as town]]
{{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- WICKED IS 10% MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}}

I thought I understood your reason for originally voting YankCane, but I asked about it because I thought you worded it strangely and I wanted clarification. In the post where you voted him you said it was because he was trying to not offend anyone and look helpful. In my opinion, neither of these things equate to seriousness and lack of jokes (which was the reason you gave in your response to my question and the answer I was expecting) which is why I asked just to be certain. You can joke around without offending anybody and you can also joke around in response to the questions but still be helpful by adding serious answers as well. Does that make sense?

Also, why would I deliberately act like I don't understand your point against Yank? If it is because you think I'm trying to avoid suspecting Yank, then why would I proceed to cast suspicion of him in post 47, three posts later?

POINT 2: CONNECTION TO SCUMBUDDY
Yank and Wicked are buddies baesd on #47-#49. Wicked starts arguing with Yank, and Yank gives him nothing,
no sort of crap that he gave me, since a) he's [Yank] not under pressure and (b) he's [Yank] too new to realize getting
into an argument with your scumbuddy is a good tactic d1.
{{{{{{RICHTER CHANGE -- BOTH YANK & WICKED ARE 40% MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM}}}}}}

IIRC, I can't really defend myself against this point because it is based on YankCane's actions. I would like you to pay attention to the fact that I gave Yank an FoS, not a vote.

This is a really weak vote. It revolves around another player being scum which is really bad reason because you couldn't possible know if Yank is scum if you are town and it is only day 1. Also, if your suspicion of me is based on my connection to YankCane, then why do you say:

It's rather extensive on

Wicked

, Vifam, and Rainbowdash being the scumteam, every bit as long as promised and then some--not even Mastin anticipated it being this conclusive. The level of detail is worth it, though.

GOOD GOD MAN FUCKING POST THIS. THIS MIGHT WIN US THE FUCKING GAME. LOOK AT MY SCUMLIST.

IF I'M WRONG ABOUT YANK, YOU'VE JUST NAILED ALL THREE SCUM

. WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?

Because if Yank was town, then you would have no reason to suspect me.

Confirmation bias. I also hated your scum-town list. Like, it's terribad. I don't see how town can come up with such a list. It wasn't one of my two original reasons for voting you, but it is now.

More importantly, HH has something "rather extensive" on 3 people I have in my scumlist. I want to read why he thinks YOU are scum beyond YankCane.

Also, Yank isn't being lynched today. Put yourslef in my shoes: two competing wagons are null-read and scum-read. Which one do you vote? I would rather lynch Yank than you, buti t's not happening.

[HezLucky]

I just finished a game (DEFCON 3.0) where I somehow managed to get every single one of my townreads AND scumreads wrong [except the one at the very very end]

I attacked too many people who were attacking me, and largely ignoredt he people that weren't.

This means I'm doing this shit wrong. I'm going to try again.

I am going to do a complete 180 on YankCane. Call him town. I fucking hate his ass. But we're calling him town for the purposes of this experiment.

Which means, until HH posts something that tells me otherwise, Wicked is not the place for my vote.

Unvote

I have NO FUCKING CLUE HOW TO SCUMHUNT. There I fucking said it. I'll figure this shit out later.

[HezLucky]

I'm not sure I'm completely wrong though.

Rainbow is playing the fucking mediator.

Vote: rainbowdash

[HezLucky]

I'm not sure I'm completely wrong though.

Rainbow is playing the fucking mediator.

Vote: rainbowdash

No you are still completely wrong. At least you are starting to turn around though.

Why is trying to break apart town reads a scum tell?

Scum were trying to buddy me superhard in DEFCON. I think at most one attacked me at any point during the game,a nd that's before he realized my personality.

I'm going to be averse to buddying of any part. If I take the Yank/Hez to be town versus town, then it makes sense there is at least one scum who will try to look good from said fight somehow. That person looks like you.

[HezLucky]

There is a little loop happening between Tarin-Wicked-Avas-Bob right now that has be on edge. Tarin backs off the Wicked wagon to vote for el simo, which makes Bob not like him which is actually the exact reason that I voted for Bob. Tarin is doing nothing to protect Avas who Bob thinks is scum in this situation with an el simo vote, which is confusing since Bob is voting Avas. Unless his arguement is that Tarin is abandoning her partners counterwagon for someone that is going nowhere, I dont get it. That is why I voted Bob, but again he is on Avas and that is just confusing me more. I need a flip here, and will take Vifam or Avas. I would be accepting enough to a Bob wagon, but he is a third pick.

Know my opinion just changed a few times in that post, but I really am not sure what to do here.

Your mediation and social gameplay scream scum, yet I have no idea how scum can write something like the above.

brb meta

[HezLucky]

There is a little loop happening between Tarin-Wicked-Avas-Bob right now that has be on edge. Tarin backs off the Wicked wagon to vote for el simo, which makes Bob not like him which is actually the exact reason that I voted for Bob. Tarin is doing nothing to protect Avas who Bob thinks is scum in this situation with an el simo vote, which is confusing since Bob is voting Avas. Unless his arguement is that Tarin is abandoning her partners counterwagon for someone that is going nowhere, I dont get it. That is why I voted Bob, but again he is on Avas and that is just confusing me more. I need a flip here, and will take Vifam or Avas. I would be accepting enough to a Bob wagon, but he is a third pick.

Know my opinion just changed a few times in that post, but I really am not sure what to do here.

Your mediation and social gameplay scream scum, yet I have no idea how scum can write something like the above.

brb meta

YOU HAVE NO COMPLETED GAMES?

[HezLucky]

I question hwo fast this bob wagon has grown. If bob flips town, I'm lynching avast tomorrow. Smells of counterwagon.

[HezLucky]

*^^* I'm still very wary of you rdash.

is confidanon still playing this game?

and where is HH. >:(

@taron, i would like you to explain your read on rdash.

YES, WHERE WERE MY INITIAL TOWNREADS?

Of course I'm throwing everything out the window Day 2. I'm already going through mini games on Mafiascum with the flips already revealed and trying to see what tells are null and what tells are things scum actually do.

I actually found one in Iowa Mafia, which is the game I'm currently on. -- town are considerably more paranoid than scum. CONSIDERABLY. If it's reasonable to be paranoid about something and someone's accepting it for face value, it's a scumtell.

Need to reread the game to see if I can apply that anywhere though.

[HezLucky]

I question hwo fast this bob wagon has grown. If bob flips town, I'm lynching avast tomorrow. Smells of counterwagon.

Well there is more than just the one counterwagon going on if you look at the way things have gone down. Its a counterwagon, but only to the Avast wagon as the wicked one has fallen apart long ago, Avast wagon still exists though. I did thinking on that comparing it to my town reads, and the town reads are more drifty on that wagon than the null ones who are intent on not giving it up. This concerns me since if Avast is town, the people who would be scum on the wagon are behaving as I would expect scum to behave. These are Bob, KKN and Wicked for those of you still playing along at home. Later members who are nearly for sure town are on and off the wagon, less sure. The early players aren't budging.

Now im really not too sold on Wicked, but I see the bob-wicked pairing being highly legitimate especially after the recent comments regarding the wagons from Bob to Tarin who would be town with a bob or wicked scum flip. Something smells wrong here, and im going to approach the situation from this new angle.

I do like the members of the wagon though. Its all people who I have at worst slightly below neutral and that really makes me far happier than I was on the Avas wagon. Still have time, still may reconsider, but I actually like the way this has happened as opposed to how other wagons have occured.

Your Wicked tance is confusing. You think wicked is scum with bob, or not scum at all?

What if bob is scum? does that make wicked automatically scum? What's the difference between lynching wicked and bob?

[HezLucky]

Holy fuck that wall is amazing.

I'm going to read through it tomorrow.

Preliminary question for HH: If you were wrong about ONE person in this game's alignment, whose alignment would wind up making you change your scumlist the most?

[HezLucky]

Whoops. Forgot to remove the reminders about the links being broken. We put the reminders there so that when we posted, we would remember to fix the links and delete those messages. The links should work if we fixed them correctly, so ignore those messages.

Anyway, we haven't been paying attention to anything in the thread since, oh, page twelve or so. We'll be re-reading to see if there's anything we need to respond to. But We're not moving our vote off of Wicked.

Actually I read through most of it now. I agree with a lot of it, but your case on Wicked looks exactly like Yank's case on me. You are basically analyzing what he's done sentence for sentence and looking for scumtells in what he's said.

But I've said it before in this game: you can make a convincing case on ANYONE in this game. Until they flip town or unless they are a confirmed power role, ANYONE in this game can have an extremely strong case put together against them.

As I've been reading over mafia games in the past 24 hours, I've noticed that process-of-elimination and obtaining town reads is very, very useful. Can you please (BRIEFLY, OH GOD) explain your town reads in this game, HH hydra?

[HezLucky]

Maybe on Day Two, we can resume our case. Page 10, 234 is where we stopped. If you guys mislynch today, we can see about continuing on from there and showing you exactly why we believe the scumteam is Wicked, Yonzy/Vifam, and Rainbowdash.

No, I wish to test your theory. Just as soon as the above three players respond to your wall.

[HezLucky]

I don't believe Wicked's claim but I don't lynch claimed cops on Day 1 (check my wiki page for my meta on that)

last time someone claimed cop (Open 302) day 1 i didn't believe him either and he was the cop.

[HezLucky]

wicked's lynch is too risky. and I HATE that bob and rdash reacted they way they did. id....rather lynch someone else to be perfectly honest. like bob or rdash. ill decide tomorrow. also, avast is not making himself look any better, and i want confidanon to come back, along with vifam. can they like get prodded or something?

Hey, I would love to lynch rainbow. Still not sure what this business on bob is though.

[HezLucky]

I'll be the first to admit that HH's wall on Wicked wasn't the greatest. In fact, I was very hesitant after reading HH's "case" on Wicked.

But the above is a really good post.


IMO one of Rainbow/Wicked/Vifam will be lynched today. I will accept nothing else.

[HezLucky]

But this is your only point against . . . him? her? it?

Um, what? Quit slacking and actually read my posts, please. It's not even that hard. Put me under ISO
and Ctrl-F "Rainbow"

Under no circumstances should rainbowdash be lynched today. I got scumvibes from tarsonisocelot jumping on wicked due to the wall, and then hopping off immediately after the claim.

THIS IS A BAD POST. BAD BAD POST. ESPECIALLY COMING FROM SOMEONE WHO CLAIMS TO HAVE BEEN LAZY AND, GIVEN HIS THOUGHTS ON WHY I'M ON THE WAGON, CLEARLY HASN'T READ THE GAME. THERE ISN'T ANY REASON TO DEFEND SOMEONE LIKE THIS, UNLESS IT'S YOUR SCUMBUDDY.

Townread on you is gone.

FOS: ConfidAnon

[HezLucky]

Unvote, Vote: Vifam

What happens if we have three power roles?

I'm not lynching outside of this list.

[HezLucky]

This confirms

at least

one of Wicked/Rainbow as scum.

fixed

[HezLucky]

Just saw the deadline.

Vifam needs to show up and claim immediately.

[HezLucky]

I am a vig, which is why I was happy with a blind Vifam lynch after the cop claim since if both were real there is at most one other town power out there.

Alright. We can see a cop in the game. We can see a vig in the game. BUT NOT BOTH AT THE SAME TIME. Vigs and cops are redundant. If this was a weakened vig (limited shot, not shooting every night), I can see it. BUT A FULL VIG AND A COP SERVE THE SAME PURPOSE IN A GAME.

Bugger all you need your head checked here mate.

A vig and a cop are entirely different roles, such as killing and information roles. This is opposed to something like tracker and watcher, or doctor and jailkeeper which don't actually add up. Not to mention vig is the most swingy of all standard roles. You are suffering from a very clear cut case of hoof in mouth disease though and have no idea how much I want to just blast you tonight in order to stop it from spreading. For ONE second here, consider the fact that you may be wrong about me, and about wicked. If you are so convinced of us too, why are you voting for the person I have been trying to get lynched on and off for the last 10 or so pages, especially when I really easily could have gotten my bob lynch here? Are you scum with bob? Maybe its HH-Bob-KKN! See I can play the same stubborn game if I want to.

Fact is, you NEVER lynch a claimed cop on the first day given that it gets results and will draw RBers away from the rest of the game. Its a mafia game, with a claimed cop. If the cop is real do you for one second think that there is no counter? Its a freaking powerful role and one of the biggest potential game changers, even one result from a confirmed cop will change the entire course of the game. A fake cop is going to need to keep spitting out bad results that eventually tend to end in them getting caught through them, or if they choose the RBer route, caught by game flow.

Still, I don't get the Wicked push. There is one line from him that makes me a little leary, but apart from that its probably pretty close to how I would have approached the miller claim as a cop. Ignore it and hope the game gets past it before people start dropping not cop tells. HH is just trying really hard to apply every post as a scumtell, you can do that to anyone. Im sure I can make a near bulletproof case on HH in a day if I really wanted to taking the same amount of "tone" assumptions they have.

Im going to stop posting here before I get more off tilt and out of character, but HH is really starting to set me off which is something I promised myself I wasn't going to allow happen.

im back for a short period of time. then im going to the pub.

at this point, ill

unvote.

although i doubt that vifam is going to be coming back to claim, i'll be willing to hammer for the sake of the deadline if im able to get back on before deadline.

If a majority is not reached by that time the player with the most votes will be lynched.

Technically it doesn't matter if you hammer

[HezLucky]

Holy hell this thread is open.

I'm going to be very blunt here.

You guys can play nightkill WIFOM all you want, as to why a vig-claim was killed and not a cop-claim.

It's simple: wicked is scum.

I didn't believe his cop claim yesterday, and I sure as hell don't believe it now given that he chose to investigate one of my most obvtown reads.

The only reason he wasn't lynched yesterday was out of principle. You've overstayed your welcome, fake cop scum.

Vote: wicked

[HezLucky]

Nobody's posting.

I demand to know why fake cop Wicked has not been lynched yet.

Someone enlighten me.

[HezLucky]

Votecount

Wickedestjr - 3 (Horrifying Hero, el simo, HezLucky)

avasthearties - 1 (Wickedestjr)

Not Voting - tarsonisocelot, LobsterCatapult, YankCane151, avasthearties, Kid Know Nothing, ConfidAnon

The current deadline is Friday, August 19 at 11:59 EST. If a majority is not reached by that time, the player with the highest number of votes will be lynched. With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Still looking for a replacement for Kid Know Nothing.

Guys I have good news we only need 3 more people and we can lynch wicked.

[HezLucky]

@HezLucky- Your suspicion of me, IIRC, is because our reads differ. Why use a point against me that isn't valid until we've seen more flips? Furthermore, you've both acknowledged the fact that your reads aren't always very accurate and the fact that I have, in the past, been capable of nailing entire scumteams. So why does differing reads mean differing allignments, in this case? This point against me would only be valid if the players you suspect (and I believed to be town) were actually mafia. However, you earlier expressed a lack of confidence in your reads.

You're reducing my case to the "thinks like Hez" theory that

a) I used to use
b) I probably used in Open 302, a game which you were in.

I don't use it anymore. No confidence in it and it's too easily manipulated by scum. I would not be voting you if that was the only reason.


I'm lynching you for:
- being INCREDIBLY scummy day one, then conveniently claiming a role that prevents you from getting lynched. (my policy is to let a claimed cop give an investigation -- as it gives us even more information. But you messed that up as well. Your choice of investigation makes no sense and doesn't seem well thought out. Simply put, wicked, I DON'T BELIEVE YOU)
- yes, I'm lynching you for your reads -- I can't see a townsperson coming up with those reads. There are several people in this game who my reads differ from, but I'm not calling them scum.
- the counterwagon to you (ie. Avast) grew REALLY fast, and most of my town reads were on you and not him.
- your overall play this game hasn't exactly been town motivated. Why as a cop would you play so lazy? You seem to have no desire to scumhunt.

And as to your point on me being always wrong: bro, I'm not the only person who thinks you're scum.

I want an updated list of reads from HH, on that note.

[HezLucky]

^^^ I knew HH wouldn't let me down.

Mod: about half this game is due for prodding -_-

[HezLucky]

Leave them alive until tomorrow and either the scumteam will kill them if they're town and there's no doctor, the scumteam will not kill anyone giving us a free day or the scumteam will kill a random and we'll lynch Wicked tomorrow.

What? How long are we going to leave wicked scumbag alive? Right now he is scum just squriming for one more day. This is not town play at all.

[HezLucky]

This game is stalling.

I'm going to make this simple for people.

You do not keep someone alive because of their claim. EVER.

Wicked tomorrow will claim a guilty or something, lead to a mislynch, and suddenly he's gone from being lynched on day 1 to taking TWO people with him (whoever gets lynched today in his place, plus his fake guilty tomorrow)

That's way too much fucking damage for someone who is completely bogus. Where the hell is everyone? Wicked needs to be lynched, and anyone arguing he shouldn't be lynched TODAY because of his claim is piece of shit scum that also needs to hang.

[HezLucky]

Leave them alive until tomorrow and either the scumteam will kill them if they're town and there's no doctor, the scumteam will not kill anyone giving us a free day or the scumteam will kill a random and we'll lynch Wicked tomorrow.

What? How long are we going to leave wicked scumbag alive? Right now he is scum just squriming for one more day. This is not town play at all.

Just until tomorrow.
Then we potentially get one more piece of information.
There are enough people alive that we can do this without risking the game.

You're right about Wicked's play being anti-town for the vast majority of this game and more so now, but I can hope that if they are town then knowing that they will be killed tomorrow they'll pick their investigation target wisely tonight and give us a set of reads to go on with (that we will completely ignore if they are scum).

I am willing to hammer Wicked tomorrow, or if we reach deadline today without an alternative.


LobsterCatapult: Why do you think scum have the ability to roleblock or rediect town powers?
Also I agree with you on there likely being one scum out of {avast|el simo} and that one likely being el simo based on the yesterday wagoning.
VOTE: el simo

This guy is scum for the reason I posted in the previous post.

"I think Wicked is scum but I DON'T WANT HIM LYNCHED"

What. The. Fuck. There is no reason for this. He's trying desperately to put a counterwagon together too.

[HezLucky]

@hez why are you harassing taron over this when i practically did the same thing?

I missed your-doing-that.

But a counterwagon does not start at one. Tarson was vote two {had he voted elsewhere i would not be holding him against this -- but with wicked absolutely needing to be the lynch today a second vote completely rubs me the wrong way}.

[HezLucky]

Wicked is null for us. I know cop+vig seems OP but for now we should really leave the cop claim alone. Honestly, the only reason the vig got shot before the cop is because the vig was suspicious of scum (otherwise, why kill the vig). Look who his vigpool was-the only remaining living and unconfirmed player is the guy we are voting.

This is interesting.

But we are lynching Wicked today. End of story.

[HezLucky]

Wicked is null for us. I know cop+vig seems OP but for now we should really leave the cop claim alone. Honestly, the only reason the vig got shot before the cop is because the vig was suspicious of scum (otherwise, why kill the vig). Look who his vigpool was-the only remaining living and unconfirmed player is the guy we are voting.

This is interesting.

But we are lynching Wicked today. End of story.

Why.

Why are you halting any further discussion. We brought up excellent points on two highly suspicious players. We are very confident of this lynch. I don't play this game. You convince me why I should switch over to Wicked. Don't dismiss points I just spent an hour talking over with "interesting...oh, lynch that guy"

LC's ISO literally

damns

her as scum. Same with avast. Take off your tunnel goggles. Sure, Wicked might be scum (though we are highly confident it is avast+LC with him as more of a wild card), but he is much more useful alive. And lynching outside of his claim works better today. If we lynch him and he flips cop, shit. If we lynch him and he flips scum, cool. Back to the thinking lab for Reg and I. However, if we lynch lewarcher today and he flips scum, he is obviously not scum with lewarcher/avast (look back at his iso). Last scum is forced to kill Wicked because he is cop+obvtown. Two for one. Scum gets lynched and a scummy player dies.

If you're not convinced, ask for a case. But don't just dismiss it with "lolthatguy dies" because thats very frustrating, especially in regards to how confident we are on this lynch.

You're confident.

I am too.

Except a shit-ton of players agree with me that Wicked is scum, and it's just a matter of me convincing them that you should never keep someone alive because of what they claim.

You've read through the game probably once.

I've lived the game for the past (2?) months and have actually caught a mafia.

What makes your certainty better than mine, huh?

[HezLucky]

El Simo, you played with one of our heads in Mini 1061 and the other one was actually spectating and following the entire game.

Lewarcher continues to prove that he replaced into a scum slot, his 'catch-up post' is nonsensical and doesn't involve any legitimate reads nor attempts at any. People need to get of the "LolWickedislynch" mindset and move their vote to join us, alternatively if they somehow are uncomfortable voting Lewarcher they can vote Lobster and we'll join them there.

Grr this is SO TRUE and that slot ever since you replaced in has become so scummy.

BUT LISTEN. WICKED IS THE LYNCH TODAY. I will happily join you on said wagon tomorrow. But here's the problem:

- a crapton of people in this game find Wicked scummy.
- leave him alive one day? next thing you know, he fakes a guilty (or at the rate he is right now he's not even in danger anymore so he'll claim an inno) and ALL OF A SUDDEN THIS MOTHERFUCKER WILL SURVIVE TO ENDGAME.

I will not allow this. This isn't any of that "give Wicked one more day" bullshit. This is a scum that has been caught, has clearly given up (lol look at his activity lately) and is trying to squeeze out ONE more day in hopes that the distraction will cause him to live even LONGER. WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO LYNCH THIS GUY?

Don't piss all over me and tell me "oh I've found the mafia". YO I'VE FOUDN THE FUCKING MAFIA. HE'S SQUIRMING AND HE'S GIVEN UP. YET PEOPLE INSIST ON LEAVING HIM ALIVE. No good can come of this. You leave him alive one day, that day suddenly becomes two days, and three days. Eventually if he's doing well enough, he sacs himself with a fake guilty and town loses.

I WILL NOT HAVE THIS HAPPEN. Wicked. is. the. lynch. today. End of story.

[HezLucky]

Hez, let me address all your points and try to convince you why a Wicked lynch is bad. "A lot of people find Wicked Scummy" - Although I agree with that, more and more people are finding Lew scummy now too. If you give us time to properly pressure him I am confident we could convince more of the town. I'm not asking for a quick-lynch on anyone, I'm asking for everyone to re-examine the game. I am fairly confident if we have a few more back and forths with these two that your minds will be changed. Good things take time.

You won't be able to convince me a Wicked lynch is bad. He is my top scumread right now by far. (though, as I mentioned earlier, I liked one of your points on avast)

Leave him alive one day and he fakes a guilty" - First of all, you are failing to address that if Avast flips scum then he will not live another day. If Avast flips town and Wicked gets a guilty, it will create CCs. Honestly, if avast flipped town, and wicked had a guilty the next day, I would probably be okay with lynching Wicked first just because him-scum with avast town makes a lot of sense. "His activity has dwindled" - If you look, he said he had been really busy the last few days and will be busy a few more on the 14th or 15th (Idk I was at work when I checked and I am too lazy to go back), this is not indicative of alignment.

Please explain to me why Avast and Wicked absolutely must have different alignments. A big part of your argument hinges on this, and I don't see it at all.

"Left alive 3 days then he lolwins" - No, this isn't going to happen. We have too many town reads to keep him alive if Avast flips town. We would reread the thread again with avast town in mind, but I highly doubt anything would sway us from lynching anyone but Wicked. Now, onto why LC and Avast are the better lynches. LC's whole rebuttal to our post literally lacks any stance on Avast. In fact, it lacks any reads at all.

This sounds nice to me. We lynch avast today, if he flips town, we lynch wicked tomorrow, right? That sounds great. IN THEORY. In practice, it's just one more day that Wicked stays alive. One more day that he can lead the town astray, fakeclaim a result that puts him in a better position, and pray.

I have a superduper scumread on Wicked and I refuse to leave him alive for ANY reason.

LC is literally lynching a null read cop claim because she is afraid the game will die if she doesn't. Think about the risk reward benefit of that for a second. LC has a null read on a cop claim. Would you, Hez, as town, lynch a null read cop claim? If you aren't fairly confident he is scum wouldn't you be more hesitant to lynch him? But she happily hops on the wagon without attempting to call Wicked scum and if anything trying to gain herself town-cred for when he flips town

I wouldn't lynch a null read period, unless by POE most of the rest of the town was in my "townread" column. If LC doesn't have scumreads, however, she could be sheeping. Given that we are 1 for 1 in catching scum, I can hardly hold her against doing that.

(though I'm biased -- if she's willing to lynch Wicked, i'm willing to defend her)

[HezLucky]

With a day one scumlynch in a mini I'm thinking one of the scum HAS to be set up for the long haul.

This is why I utterly cannot be convinced of Wicked and Avast having to have different alignments.

[HezLucky]

No, they aren't scum together is more or less what I am saying.

Its marginally possible they are both town, but it would be like you calling 2 of your top 3 FoSs town: its unlikely.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3292945

This and a lot of Wicked's iso is why they arent scum together.

On the contrary, this post is a great way for wicked to, you know, WIN THE GAME. Especially given that the above post came something like 100 posts BEFORE wicked actually claimed cop.

[HezLucky]

No, they aren't scum together is more or less what I am saying.

Its marginally possible they are both town, but it would be like you calling 2 of your top 3 FoSs town: its unlikely.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3292945

This and a lot of Wicked's iso is why they arent scum together.

Both of them town? Doubt it.

...then again I've been wrong about far more than just 2 people's alignments in a game. (try: everyone's alignment ... oh man DEFCON 3.0 was bad)

[HezLucky]

Anyway, if that really all you have to say in response to everything that's going on maybe you should replace out or actually do something. Your choice.

This is the first time I've posted on MafiaScum drunk so this may be the alcohol talking but you are a complete and utter failure.

I mean that in a nice way and you should switch wagons to Wicked.

[HezLucky]

I'm actually from this site (I have around 10 games experience, more than half of that replace-ins), I've just never seen a miller who knew about his role.

I still find voting for potential PRs scummy even if their suspicions say otherwise. If your scumdar ever pings 90% without a mod-confirm then your scumdar's broken.

My thoughts on Lobster: She's done an effective job of throwing around suspicions without holding on to any of them, as well as being very general/vague and conflicted. Posts like this are just... terrible. It boils down to "I agree. Oh, but maybe not. Tee hee!". Her votes are very flighty and impulsive. My gut says likely scum but I can't find any solid reasons to vote her other then being a wildcard and voting a potential PR (perhaps her contradictory statements concerning Wicked would be a reason). I'm definitely willing to vote her if it comes down to her or Wicked.

This slot is downright stupid.

The way you are speaking suggests you seem to be completely certain that Wicked is town.

Yeah, right.

Unvote, Vote: fenix

[HezLucky]

I'm actually from this site (I have around 10 games experience, more than half of that replace-ins), I've just never seen a miller who knew about his role.

I still find voting for potential PRs scummy even if their suspicions say otherwise. If your scumdar ever pings 90% without a mod-confirm then your scumdar's broken.

My thoughts on Lobster: She's done an effective job of throwing around suspicions without holding on to any of them, as well as being very general/vague and conflicted. Posts like this are just... terrible. It boils down to "I agree. Oh, but maybe not. Tee hee!". Her votes are very flighty and impulsive. My gut says likely scum but I can't find any solid reasons to vote her other then being a wildcard and voting a potential PR (perhaps her contradictory statements concerning Wicked would be a reason). I'm definitely willing to vote her if it comes down to her or Wicked.

This slot is downright stupid.

The way you are speaking suggests you seem to be completely certain that Wicked is town.

Yeah, right.

Unvote, Vote: fenix

I actually meant to quote 731 instead of 733 but my vote stands.

Look at this:

Right now I don't know what to think about Wicked's claim, but it behooves us to keep him alive today on the off-chance we can get another couple investigations in. Oh, and HH's miller claim was retracted, so that doesn't imply a cop in the game. That and millers generally aren't told so in their role PM.

HH's miller claim is concerning for several reasons, even if it was retracted. For one, he retracted it very soon after he made it AND very early in the game. Which means he gained virtually nothing from it. Meaning it was pure fluff. Another thing that bothers me about HH: He's still pushing hard for a Wicked lynch despite the claim. I admit I have my doubts about Wicked's claim myself, but this doesn't change the fact that the best course of action which is to wait one day and see how things turn out. Pushing an un-CCed PR lynch is very concerning (as he very well might be our last PR). Everyone on his wagon deserves some suspicion (for now), but especially HH.

I MEAN LOOK AT IT.

[HezLucky]

FENIX CLAIMS HE HAS DOUBTS BUT IF FENIX HAD ANY DOUBTS ABOUT WICKED WHATSOEVER HE WOULD COMPLETELY FUCKING UNDERSTAND WHERE MYSELF AND HH ARE COMING FROM.

[HezLucky]

I side with Fenix on this, he has should consistency with his views, what is the problem?

COOL STORY BRO.

BE MORE WRONG.

PLEASE.

[HezLucky]

SUGGESTING HE DOESN'T COMPELTELY BELIEVE WICKED'S CLAIM THEN EXPRESSING SUSPICION OF THOSE WHO DO MEANS HE'S LYING ABOUT THE FORMER

BECAUSE IT'S CLEAR HH AND I ARE ON THE COMPLETE SAME FUCKING WAVELENGTH WITH WICKED. AND IT'S CLEAR THAT AVAST/LEW/FENIX/YOURMOTHER ARE NOT ON SAID WAVELENGTH.

Would be willing to lynch el simo too, while we're at it. I don't even care right now, I want to see some flips.

[HezLucky]

Who's the leading wagon?

[[-- In the event of a tie, it's a no lynch, and I demand flips -- people need to keep this in mind before anyone throws a vote on someone unlikely to be lynched]]

[HezLucky]

Secondly, in post 322 tarsonisocelot gives her reads on four of the players because she was asked to (IIRC). el simo is one of the players tarsonisocelot gave her read of. My issue with this post is that, unlike the other three reads, tarsonisocelot doesn't justify her el simo nullread- it's IIoA. This reeks of scum reluctant to give a read on their scumbuddy.

How will you respond when I tell you I largely have had a null read on tarson and el simo for MOST of the game?

To me, they're kinda just ... there.

[HezLucky]

My interactions with tarsonis?

There are none.

It's entirely based off

her

interactions with me. This is completely illogical reasonings. Also, in the following post, because I actually only now just looked at the posts you linked, am going to rip up the shit you call a connection.

This sounds like you are complaining about your noob scum buddy not looking legit enough in their interactions with you.

Holy shit I need to reread this game. Looks like I've got an assignment for Night 2!

[HezLucky]

i throw my vote around where i think it best suits town
...
im going to

unvote

vote:fenix

I've read the thread, your votes have switched between the most popular wagon and the least popular wagon, and it doesn't seem to agree with your suspicions all the way either. I find it very hard to believe you're voting with the best interest of the town in mind.

oh cool, distancing.

Unvote, Vote: LobsterCatapult

I think I just hammered

[HezLucky]

That bodyguard being in the game was SO FRUSTRATING. -_-

I'm pretty sure I would have made it _at least_ to lylo given how the game was progressing.

[HezLucky]

"fenix shoots wicked i hide behind magua"

[HezLucky]

If a hider hides behind someone who dies, they die as well. So basically I wound up

shooting myself in the foot

killing my partner along with Magua.

No this isn't your fault it was just stupidly stupidly bad luck. -_-

[HezLucky]

Just wondering, but why did you hide at all? Trying to avoid cop? Wouldn't he get a "no result" which would be suspicious as hell in itself?

Mafia were expected to have a power role by town. That would just confirm that there is some sort of mafia roleblocker in the game.

[HezLucky]

Just wondering, but why did you hide at all? Trying to avoid cop? Wouldn't he get a "no result" which would be suspicious as hell in itself?

Mafia were expected to have a power role by town. That would just confirm that there is some sort of mafia roleblocker in the game.

also, I was going on the assumption that Wicked would have been dead --- doc + cop + vig is somewhat overpowered given 3 maf.

our maf qt has a grand total of 17 posts in it. there is next to nothing interesting [unless you really care about why the vig died before the cop -- yes it has everything to do with avas being one of the two targets and the fact that I can't both hide and kill at the same time]

[HezLucky]

Eh? But vig shots still go through even if the vig dies on that night, no?

The cop is something I have control over. I can hide n1, hope he kills an inno and then off him the next night.

A trigger happy vig means I either hide or risk being killed. Which is scary.

[HezLucky]

Scum should have killed the cop night one, I think not doing that was a major mistake, way too big of a risk if town came around.

How is this a mistake? If it weren't for a freak N2 accident this game would be going on for another month at least.