TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win

[Leonshade]

@leonshade: can I haz links to some of your other games pls?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=14413
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=14959

The first one is my very first game from a year ago, the second one is a game I had to replace out of early on. Other than those two, I don't have normal completed games to link to. I do have a few finished marathon games, which I will link to if requested.

(B) suggests that previously,

by itself

, Vifam's deflection of suspicion was not enough to convince Leonshade that Vifam was scum.

However, surely then, Leonshade's reason for not voting Vifam earlier would have been that (by itself) the deflection of suspicion was not enough to earn his vote. As we've seen [see (A)] that was NOT his reason for not voting Vifam, and herein lies the contradiction.

This would be a contradiction if me thinking that Vifam has enough votes was a viewpoint that existed in a vacuum, but it did not. I don't think that there's a limit to the number of votes any given player should have, I just felt that Vifam, at that moment, had enough votes. I later found him scummier, thus meriting more votes.

(C): When he tries to reconcile his earlier stance of not voting Vifam with his vote now, he uses the excuse that jily's slot is taking a while to get replaced. Which a reasonable justification for unvoting jily.

However, it is NOT a reasonable justification for voting Vifam, who has more votes than he did when Leonshade avoided voting Vifam before [see (A)]. Because that reason should still be valid for not voting Vifam.

Leonshade is trying to make it look like he had to choose between voting jily and Vifam, which of course is NOT the case. There are plenty of great people to vote (Pappums' list is good).

I could have voted for one of those people, but I saw no reason to vote for them over Vifam.

[Pinky and the Brain]

V/LA This Weekend.

Hoppster should still be active.

-diddin

[killerjester]

Hehe, sorry for the not posting. I keep going to, then get turned away by the whole switching accounts thing.

I have had my vote on andrew since RVS, yes, so...
UNVOTE: andrew94

Vifam is... I don't know what to think. See, I do believe that Vifam's behaviour is newbish, but... The fact that he's made an Alt account kind of nulls that. If he thinks he's not all that new, then we can't let him off for being new.
For this, I'm going to VOTE: Vifam, for now.

I really want your thoughts on Leonshade. Vifam is dodgy at best, but I'm getting clear scum readings off of Leonshade. Humor me and pressure him?

Zinger is not putting forth any sort of content whatsoever, despite doing some pretty decent scumhunting in Super Hero Mafia. PeregrineV and Leonshade both look like they are active lurking, not putting much content out, and not really committing to any reads.

My thoughts on Zinger are pretty much the same, and while I'm not sure about Leon, I'm pretty sure Pere's 'active lurking' isn't an indication of alignment.

What are your thoughts on Leon?

66:

Rodion+7

for trying to escalate the obv-early Vezok wagon to a fullclaim
141:

Leon+7

for voting my predecessor based on a "defence" of vezok, when all she'd offered was a meta position. You can't "defend" somebody who isn't under attack - so this just screams of being a weak effort to join an existing wagon.

I think you had to run prematurely (post to be continued?), but these are your top 2 at the moment. I'll wait for the rest of your readings, but do know I expect a vote from you on your top scumspect.

Page 12 and I already got a damn prod. I am sorry guys, I completely forgot about this game. I am signed up for so many and I did this on a whim at 12 A.M.

I will post content when I get back to a computer, but for now I have a pretty big town read on Rodion and MagnaofIllusion.

About Vifam, I can't really say much as I haven't really looked into his posts, but I did see some sheeping.

Take some time, read the thread. Let us know what you think.

oh the irony.

nero why would you assume that? not a good thing to assume.

VOTE: vifan

TIF:

a) You were already voting Vifam. Who did you think you were voting?
b) (Ignoring the fact that you were already voting Vifam,) what prompted you to vote Vifam here?

The VC didnt have my name on it; thought maybe i forgot to vote. Same reasons, as previously but with the added evidence, i just voted due to thinking i was off the wagon

Well after looking through all of the vote counts and noticing that ThreeisFrench was represented accurately in all of them, with NO notations of editing, I can only take that excuse for double vote as a lie. feel free to check Mod's ISO here

ThreeisFrench is obviously lying, and why would you lie about something that could be attributed to a little mistake. Strongly leaning scum.

~

BALLIN

I enjoyed reading your DX case, there was quite solid info in there. I brought up the 3French point you made because I'm pretty sure his hydra's other head missed the fact that he already voted Vifam. Does this mean he's lying about his own vote? I don't think so. Does this mean he's skimming the thread? Yes, absolutely, which raises questions of its own.

Now that I have that out of the way, epic post about Leon incoming..

[jasonT1981]

Vifam has asked to be replaced. A search is now on going.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vifam has asked to be replaced. A search is now on going.

VOTE: Vifam.

A request for replacement under pressure with not a word posted in thread about why? Not kosher at all.

DavidX would probably get my vote if Vifam hadn't pulled this move.

I need to look at Rodion's activity but he seems to have dropped off the radar since he stopped being under pressure. Not sure if he is V/LA or not.

[jasonT1981]

Junpei replaces Vifam. thank you.

[Junpei]

Anyways hello. Claim time right?

I'm town tracker, nice BW putting tracker at L-2 derp.

[Leonshade]

Anyways hello. Claim time right?

I'm town tracker, nice BW putting tracker at L-2 derp.

Why would you claim unprovoked?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Anyways hello. Claim time right?

I'm town tracker, nice BW putting tracker at L-2 derp.

Read the tread and get back to us about how derp it was based on your predecessor.

But you don't lynch a claimed Town PR Day 1 no matter how bad their play is.

UNVOTE: Junpei
VOTE: DavidX

[Junpei]

Anyways hello. Claim time right?

I'm town tracker, nice BW putting tracker at L-2 derp.

Why would you claim unprovoked?

You're high right?

I'm at L-2 on a d1 BW in full swing with people going V/LA and I just entered the game.

[Leonshade]

L-2 is not L-1, but that's nitpicking I guess.

Unvote

[killerjester]

Game awesome so far. Tell me when you're tunneling hard so I have a reason to catchup wall.

Killer, calling Meransiel. Come in Meransiel. I'm tunneling hard.

I rarely have strong enough reads early on in D1 to consider one player scummier than another, so I consider my D1 vote to be a tool with which to pressure people. I now consider Vifam scummy enough for a vote, but at the time of my initial post suspecting him, I wanted to stay on Jil because I felt that there might be more to her/her player slot. A voice can easily drown out in a large crowd, so I was hoping to bring the town's attention to another possible scum instead of being just another vote on a bandwagon. Now I feel Vifam is scummy enough to merit a vote above everyone else, however.

- Scum fabricate excuses to claim that they find someone suspicious.

Vifam is only

now

more scummy? Christ, all the kid said was that he was going to prepare a defense for himself, so we would know what to expect. How does THAT make him scummier over everything else that he's done? Vifam might be scum, but he's not the smartest tool in the shed, so it wouldn't surprise me he fucked it up as town. You on the other hand, I am certain that you are scum after reading your recent posts.

There's nothing I can say to your comments about appeasing town, I can only hope that my actions will show that you're wrong.

- Scum uses manipulation and deceit to achieve their nefarious ends.

You're trying to sweep

me

and my accusations under the rug? This is red-light scum sirens flashing right here.

This would be a contradiction if me thinking that Vifam has enough votes was a viewpoint that existed in a vacuum, but it did not. I don't think that there's a limit to the number of votes any given player should have, I just felt that Vifam, at that moment, had enough votes. I later found him scummier, thus meriting more votes.

I could have voted for one of those people, but I saw no reason to vote for them over Vifam.

- Scum try to look suspicious of someone that is in no danger of being lynched so they are uninvolved with the lynch of a townie.

AGAIN WITH THE NINJA MOVES. Meriting more votes? If I recall correctly..and I do. Back in #270 you said the reason why you were switching from Jil to Vifam was because it was taking awhile for Jil to be replaced. Now you're saying you switched it because you no longer felt Vifam had sufficient votes on him, as you did before when you kept your vote on Jil, and needed more. So which is it?

You aren't voting for anyone and most of your posts have been either fluff or one-word answers to questions. Are you actually going to do anything in this game, other than answering "yes" to this question?

- Scum need to look like they are trying to catch scum.

Here you clearly feel like you need to start pretend scum-hunting again.

You are an abomination of scumminess.

My point is that I back up what I say with my reasoning and

my vote

. Like with Jil, like with DavidX, like with Vifam, whenever I said something I pushed the wagon. Something you've failed to do. You failed at even appearing like you wanted Vifam lynched. Nowhere did you say you wanted him lynched. You are too cowardly a mafia to try that.

[Junpei]

I'm still rereading, but killerjester, so far you have a habit of voting without giving reasoning. You've voted out of nothing just after a vote for the same person was cast.

Just putting it out there that your last bit of your post is a bit of a joke.

[killerjester]

RVS is always a joke. But it yields results so I never complain.

[Junpei]

RVS is always a joke. But it yields results so I never complain.

Not talking about that

I'm getting near the finish, would you guys like me to post my raw thoughts or would you prefer me to structure them/cross-reference/tidy it up? Either way you'll get the same basic information, the latter will just be less insightful to my mind but could be easier to understand. My raw thoughts aren't just my notes c/p, but it pretty much is (my notes c/p would be unreadable to you guys ).

[Junpei]

I'm done, I don't think that I'm going to respond to your walls in depth or anything because none were directed at me, unless there are those who want me to. I am not accustomed to such large games on forum mafia so I'm not sure what I am supposed to let you guys know. I suppose I will give you a background information summary on me.

I had 1 year of EM experience and like 2 games of Forum Mafia experience. I am very used to the fast-paced reaction based style of play and it has been strange adjusting to Forum Mafia, however I feel like I am making a pretty strong shift from the former to the latter.

I am not a fan of meta although I know that it is used by people a lot and may even catch scum. But any decent player won't give you a link to a game that will incriminate them, that's just silly. Regardless I won't insult your use of it I will even accept it and even use it myself, I just dislike dependence on it and I dislike it in general.

I'm a logic thinker, if you don't quite understand something I say ask me, I will explain to you why I said it and what it means. I would also rather people explain why they believe something to be true in detail if possible and when applicable.

Sorry I'm a bit energy deflated and I'm currently juggling several things on top of it. I need to go out and run soon, so I'd like a response from someone on #314, as I will gladly do either choice even for just 1 person. Conversation rolling is good, and I'd like to uncover people's thoughts swiftly so we can determine a lynch. Also, 1 month deadlines loldamn, I was used to 15 minute deadlines in EM.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Junpei - That's a nice biography. When you complete you readthrough tell us who is scum please.

[Junpei]

Junpei - That's a nice biography. When you complete you readthrough tell us who is scum please.

Oh, I did. And I think Killerjester, ThreeisFrench, and LeonShade is mafia. I am less sure on the third as I haven't gone into much detail as some of your posts have, but from what I can tell there is reason to suspect. I eventually will look into him more.

Meran deserves a vote for never posting, and since I have whatever vifams' random vote was I place it there for pressure. Meran isn't someone I can say is scum but I will rather vote her if it helps get content out of her.

Zlinger is suspicious for not making many good posts, I'll also eventually get around to going into detail on that if I don't get too engrossed in my other reads.

Thats what I got in my notes anyway, these people are rated rather high on my scumlist. In fact they are the top.

Hi ZeL1nK I noticed you are remaining anonymous. That will be very bad unless you promise to differentiate who is posting when you post. If I don't know which head is posting it is very difficult to read you (p.s. I hate hydras).

[Junpei]

I will provide more in depth reasoning soon, I'm going to 1) finish this marathon game I"m in (why do I even join them when I can play on EM) 2) run a bit and probably eat but I'll eat at my computer.

[Meransiel]

@Junpei: I don't like posting day 1 in larges. You can ask people.

[Junpei]

@Junpei: I don't like posting day 1 in larges. You can ask people.

vote Meransiel

Just realized I didn't vote you

While I have you here, how about posting some content <3 because posting content is better than

not

posting content.

[andrew94]

chkballing classic scum, posting huge wall of reads. i looked at some of them 'andrew lurking scum'. thats your reason?

early claim is null

magna post 308 town tell
leon post 307 scum tell. no unvote?

[Junpei]

chkballing classic scum, posting huge wall of reads. i looked at some of them 'andrew lurking scum'. thats your reason?

early claim is null

magna post 308 town tell
leon post 307 scum tell. no unvote?

lolwut

Sorry that was my reaction. Please site the posts you're referring to and be more detailed on your last two points.

[izakthegoomba]

But scum claim PRs just as often as town, if not more, right? Does it really mean anything?

[Junpei]

BW 1 is on Vezok. This can be something denoted as RVS however BWing tendencies are important and don't discount an action because it can be written off as 'random', since nothing truly is random.

BW 2 is on Jilynne1991. Is right after other votes on the same person and is accompanied with 1 sentence of reasoning that is summed up in "my last bw isn't as good".

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p3244420
Votes Leon for supposedly distancing himself from a lynch? That's better than your latest BW vote? I'm starting to think that you're just voting without specific reason.

Only 1 vote has been any good and that has been your David vote. I just realized that he did explain the Leon vote but it has been rather late. His other content is very meh, I haven't gone into depth on it but once again I just entered I normally go into depth once I'm 'in the zone' and really got the scent of scum.

ThreeisFrench

RVS vote vote before this was /confirm post

votes marco for little reason at all

votes vifam purely based off of a post where he lists 8 or 9 people and his reads on them. Yeah I agree it was a pretty shitty post, however it was directly after a MoI vote on vifam. Not to mention this post has little content

he's a hydra yet still inactive as all hell. By the way WHO ARE YOUR HEADS.

another vifam vote probably from his other head, but it shows that he is BWing for the sake of sticking with the crowd. This was right after the next wave of vifam votes. It also shows that the two heads aren't sharing their reads and scumtells, possibly because they don't need to scumhunt because they are in fact scum.

Next two posts are so fluff I don't even know what URL heading I'd give them. Then,

ok. which was my reaction after reading it. He voted again because votals didn't have his name (by the way that isn't true) and because of his added evidence. The only thing he posted other than the vote was him questioning something that some nero did.

This guy has to be scum.

Leonshade is going to take more thinking later, but I am not saying I am confident in the scumread on him, I only browsed the various posts against him and I still would need to make a better judgment.

Zlinger

is easy so I'll do him quickly

First 5 posts are contentless other than a nameclaim (I don't know why but ok fine nameclaim, it's stupid but go for it. We don't know if roles name specific flavornames or not. For instance "do this to rolename A and you get ability X" is something that I've seen in marathon games that might translate to here).

Joke post I hope, otherwise it's dumb post, because mafia CCing a nameclaim that fypov is legit is stupid beyond thinking.

First post that seems contentish, because it really can't be defined as content. Grudges, Vifam BW, stupid CC, says everyone but Vifam/CC guy is null, and then says he's using his action on ZeLink. I don't understand this guy, why would you out your action and we don't even know what your action is. So telling us just hints to us that you aren't a non-visiting role which makes you a kill target. If you really are a PR (probably mafia) then you're a fool.

Then there are two posts regarding the grudge. Once again trying to push the topic offtopic and railing 'vigshots' off of him with accusations of AtE.

Says he's done 'not nothing' ... ... Actually you have done nothing.

My vote is staying on Meran though because no need to lynch scum yet, I want Meran to talk.

pedit: Scum in this case probably would claim PR, it's the only way to get the BW off, but town PR would also claim town PR. Also you shouldn't rush to lynch the new guy, I promise you that after reading this post you'll see there are better options.