TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win

[Rodion]

The scummiest players, I feel, simply from their votes on the Vifam wagon are...*checks my handbook* 3isFrench, DavidX, and Rodion. It seemed to me that DavidX and Rodion were both notably hesitant in casting their votes on Vifam, and gave me the feeling they were fishing for town approval before jumping on the bandwagon.

#191 explains why I hesitated.

It is hardly ridiculous at all. Look at the facts: ZeL1nK claimed he would kill me Night 1 before I had said ANYTHING in this game what-so-ever.

Not really. The vig claim was on #122 and you had already taken the time to post twice (#85 and #116), you just chose not to post anything substantial other than a nameclaim (something most players - among those that talked about an early mass nameclaim - said would do no good to town) . Tell you what: I didn't like #85 and #116 either. Whether that was the reason he decided to threaten you or not is something we can only begin to understand if you post the link to the game you mentioned (the game has concluded, right?), thus I reiterate the request I had made on #200.

While I'm at that, I'm not liking the playing style of either (Zinger and Zelink).

Town points for Pinky's answer to Silver regarding treating Vifam as a newbie. Scum points to Silver for the same reason.

66:

Rodion+7

for trying to escalate the obv-early Vezok wagon to a fullclaim
141:

Leon+7

for voting my predecessor based on a "defence" of vezok, when all she'd offered was a meta position. You can't "defend" somebody who isn't under attack - so this just screams of being a weak effort to join an existing wagon.

I think you had to run prematurely (post to be continued?), but these are your top 2 at the moment.

I'll wait for the rest of your readings, but do know I expect a vote from you on your top scumspect.

Blatant skimming: Vifam is +8, so he's ahead of Leon on vollkan's ranking.

Vollfan explained his method and it seemed clear enough to me that he would cast a vote as soon as he got to analyse all posts. Pressuring for that seems like you're trying to look town without actually helping.

I need to look at Rodion's activity but he seems to have dropped off the radar since he stopped being under pressure. Not sure if he is V/LA or not.

Sorry about that. I've been busy the last couple of days.

Anyways hello. Claim time right?

I'm town tracker, nice BW putting tracker at L-2 derp.

UNVOTE: Vifam/Junpei

But scum claim PRs just as often as town, if not more, right? Does it really mean anything?

It means we can pressure Junpei for reports. If later something does not add up, we conclude she fakeclaimed and lynch her.

I still need to form my opinion on the Killerjester vs. Leonshade case. Hopefully I can do that in the next couple of days. I didn't find anything blatantly scummy on Leonshade and I feel it's just a difference on playing philosophy, but I'll try to look deeper to confirm/deny my original thoughts on the subject.

I'd also like 3isFrench to comment on his lie regarding the vote count and his 2nd Vifam vote.

Fasposted by Junpei.

[Junpei]

I am a male. Some people call me a she, I think is has to do with my name starting with Jun so they pronounce the first syllable "June" which is a common girls name.

And after going over killerjesters ISO again I didn't notice anything that should put him up at the spot where others are on the scumlist.

Several people like Goomba are going to need more time so they can post more but I don't want them to hesitate to start on that asap.

[Rodion]

Read Junpei's post: can anyone (3+ people would be better) confirm that Meran-town is usually inactive on D1?

[Rodion]

I am a male. Some people call me a she, I think is has to do with my name starting with Jun so they pronounce the first syllable "June" which is a common girls name.

My bad!

[Junpei]

I don't really care if he's usually inactive, I want him to be active this game. Creating a meta of being inactive d1 is stupid, and is a habit that needs to be kicked. If you are town then stop using your meta as an excuse to be lazy and help out.

[glowball]

Pinky and the Brain - Called jily out for a lack of content when at that time their own player slot hadn't brought much more, if anything, to the table besides indifference to mass claiming; null/leaning scum.

With all due respect, this is stupid. We hadn't posted yet (obviously I'm excluding /confirms) and thus hadn't had an opportunity to comment on anything but jily had posted and had the opportunity to comment and she didn't (or DIDDIN'T! HA! Yeah, I stole that pun off somebody).

Just because you start something with "with all due respect" doesn't make the statement that comes after excuseable. At least 50% of this hydra does not respond well to insults that are unjustly received. I am not attacking you, don't attack me. That being said, I am not here to speculate whether or not you could have posted more content. If you were not V/LA or did not post anything inferring you were too busy to post content, I will expect content and being hypocritical by pointing out that jily has none raised some eyebrows. Now it doesn't make jily less scummy, it actually had no effect on my reads. This, you pointing out a point you obviously thought was stupid, does make me question why you even felt the need to respond at all.

The VC didnt have my name on it; thought maybe i forgot to vote. Same reasons, as previously but with the added evidence, i just voted due to thinking i was off the wagon

Well after looking through all of the vote counts and noticing that ThreeisFrench was represented accurately in all of them, with NO notations of editing, I can only take that excuse for double vote as a lie. feel free to check Mod's ISO here

ThreeisFrench is obviously lying, and why would you lie about something that could be attributed to a little mistake. Strongly leaning scum.

~

BALLIN

I enjoyed reading your DX case, there was quite solid info in there. I brought up the 3French point you made because I'm pretty sure his hydra's other head missed the fact that he already voted Vifam. Does this mean he's lying about his own vote? I don't think so. Does this mean he's skimming the thread? Yes, absolutely, which raises questions of its own.

Whether or not the other head of the hydra missed the fact that they already voting is relevant. They aren't scummy to me based on a double vote. The nature of scumminess is in the lie- the claim that they weren't in the vote count which is why they double voted. Now I may have blown it a little out of proportion, but I have the PINKY TOE OF SUSPICION (lol)

PToS

on anyone lying about something so silly that could be excused as an honest mistake and I would like to hear from ThreeisFrench on this.

chkballing classic scum, posting huge wall of reads. i looked at some of them 'andrew lurking scum'. thats your reason?

Awesome. Did you even bother reading our case on DavidX? Yeah probably not, right? Just skimmed- looked for your own name because that's all that matters? Rhetorical. Meaning: I don't care about your response because it's obvious.

And after going over killerjesters ISO again I didn't notice anything that should put him up at the spot where others are on the scumlist.

Oh, I did. And I think

Killerjester,

ThreeisFrench, and LeonShade

is mafia

.

I am a little confused because you first said that he was mafia so obviously you found something scummy enough about him. Are you saying that after the re-read that your opinions have changed? If that is the case I would like some new reads.

~

BALLIN

(p.s. I hate hydras)

Well we hate you too,or at least I do...but I'm sure my other head will back me up!

[chkballin]

SUPER SORRY, but here it is again for ISO purposes.

Pinky and the Brain - Called jily out for a lack of content when at that time their own player slot hadn't brought much more, if anything, to the table besides indifference to mass claiming; null/leaning scum.

With all due respect, this is stupid. We hadn't posted yet (obviously I'm excluding /confirms) and thus hadn't had an opportunity to comment on anything but jily had posted and had the opportunity to comment and she didn't (or DIDDIN'T! HA! Yeah, I stole that pun off somebody).

Just because you start something with "with all due respect" doesn't make the statement that comes after excuseable. At least 50% of this hydra does not respond well to insults that are unjustly received. I am not attacking you, don't attack me. That being said, I am not here to speculate whether or not you could have posted more content. If you were not V/LA or did not post anything inferring you were too busy to post content, I will expect content and being hypocritical by pointing out that jily has none raised some eyebrows. Now it doesn't make jily less scummy, it actually had no effect on my reads. This, you pointing out a point you obviously thought was stupid, does make me question why you even felt the need to respond at all.

The VC didnt have my name on it; thought maybe i forgot to vote. Same reasons, as previously but with the added evidence, i just voted due to thinking i was off the wagon

Well after looking through all of the vote counts and noticing that ThreeisFrench was represented accurately in all of them, with NO notations of editing, I can only take that excuse for double vote as a lie. feel free to check Mod's ISO here

ThreeisFrench is obviously lying, and why would you lie about something that could be attributed to a little mistake. Strongly leaning scum.

~

BALLIN

I enjoyed reading your DX case, there was quite solid info in there. I brought up the 3French point you made because I'm pretty sure his hydra's other head missed the fact that he already voted Vifam. Does this mean he's lying about his own vote? I don't think so. Does this mean he's skimming the thread? Yes, absolutely, which raises questions of its own.

Whether or not the other head of the hydra missed the fact that they already voting is relevant. They aren't scummy to me based on a double vote. The nature of scumminess is in the lie- the claim that they weren't in the vote count which is why they double voted. Now I may have blown it a little out of proportion, but I have the PINKY TOE OF SUSPICION (lol)

PToS

on anyone lying about something so silly that could be excused as an honest mistake and I would like to hear from ThreeisFrench on this.

chkballing classic scum, posting huge wall of reads. i looked at some of them 'andrew lurking scum'. thats your reason?

Awesome. Did you even bother reading our case on DavidX? Yeah probably not, right? Just skimmed- looked for your own name because that's all that matters? Rhetorical. Meaning: I don't care about your response because it's obvious.

And after going over killerjesters ISO again I didn't notice anything that should put him up at the spot where others are on the scumlist.

Oh, I did. And I think

Killerjester,

ThreeisFrench, and LeonShade

is mafia

.

I am a little confused because you first said that he was mafia so obviously you found something scummy enough about him. Are you saying that after the re-read that your opinions have changed? If that is the case I would like some new reads.

~

BALLIN

(p.s. I hate hydras)

Well we hate you too,or at least I do...but I'm sure my other head will back me up!

[killerjester]

I still need to form my opinion on the Killerjester vs. Leonshade case. Hopefully I can do that in the next couple of days. I didn't find anything blatantly scummy on Leonshade and I feel it's just a difference on playing philosophy, but I'll try to look deeper to confirm/deny my original thoughts on the subject.

Leonshade is going to take more thinking later, but I am not saying I am confident in the scumread on him, I only browsed the various posts against him and I still would need to make a better judgment.

These. Why these.

You aren't giving me information, you aren't telling me

why

you're completely ignoring how scummy Leon is being right now? Even if you don't think he's being scummy, tell me why.

[ThreeIsFrench]

@Junpei: I believe you asked who our heads are. It's hiplop and DonJosh

Just to clear up some misunderstandings, this is my first post on the hydra besides the "/confirm" post. I will be more active from now on.

~DJ

[glowball]

@Junpei: I believe you asked who our heads are. It's hiplop and DonJosh

Just to clear up some misunderstandings, this is my first post on the hydra besides the "/confirm" post. I will be more active from now on.

~DJ

Awesome.
@KillerJester....obviously there was no "head" confusion. Now how would you explain the lie/double vote?

[chkballin]

AGAIN FOR ISO PURPOSES and if I do this again someone PLEASE punch me in the face.

@Junpei: I believe you asked who our heads are. It's hiplop and DonJosh

Just to clear up some misunderstandings, this is my first post on the hydra besides the "/confirm" post. I will be more active from now on.

~DJ

Awesome.
@KillerJester....obviously there was no "head" confusion. Now how would you explain the lie/double vote?

[chkballin]

@MOD: Any way you can delete the posts from my glowball account-- it's taking up space unnecessarily and I posted them again under the hydra account...sorry

[Junpei]

Killerjester I'm not ignoring his scumminess I'm simply stating that I am not going to go down in record supporting something that I haven't investigated.

My reasons for suspicion on KillerJester was his bad voting habits. But right before I posted he made a scumcase on Leonshade which made my vote case look silly. Also I hadn't read the whole thread in detail looking for reads I was taking notes on the first things I noticed. When I went to go browse his ISO I found that he wasn't as scummy as I thought. A list of reads on everyone is not happening as there isn't enough content to make those reads on. That thing where you guys bounced Vifam for having that silly post was laughable. Reads on 24 odd people this early? They're about as inaccurate combined as a blind archer.

I didn't mean that I personally hated hydra users. I meant that I hate the idea of hydras in that it makes me have to have a ton of extra work separating you two. At least tag your posts saying which one is posting... Really it would help me out a ton. I don't even care about the names it could be guy A and guy B just TAG YOUR POSTS WITH WHO YOU ARE.

unrelated: did the site go down for like 1 minute?

[killerjester]

@KillerJester....obviously there was no "head" confusion. Now how would you explain the lie/double vote?

.. I got nothing for ya, boss O: I tried rationalizing it as a hydra mistake because I honestly don't see town

or

mafia reasons for voting twice and then lying about it. I can understand that townies don't lie, but why would a scum lie about something that blatantly obvious? It didn't make sense to me, and my brain said, "Could it be a mistake? Sure, let's go with that."

I am honest to God not sure how to explain it now.

My reasons for suspicion on KillerJester was his bad voting habits. But right before I posted he made a scumcase on Leonshade which made my vote case look silly. Also I hadn't read the whole thread in detail looking for reads I was taking notes on the first things I noticed. When I went to go browse his ISO I found that he wasn't as scummy as I thought. A list of reads on everyone is not happening as there isn't enough content to make those reads on. That thing where you guys bounced Vifam for having that silly post was laughable. Reads on 24 odd people this early? They're about as inaccurate combined as a blind archer.

Were my voting patterns the only reason you saw me as scummy? I'm not saying all my reasons behind voting are 100% right. I'm saying when I have an opinion, I back up what I say with my vote. I'd love to hear your input on Leon though. Take some time and read the thread.

unrelated: did the site go down for like 1 minute?

Yes, it did.

[Junpei]

I have a possibility: He lied and the other head actually did post that.

Also alright I'll start my case on Leon and whehter i find him scummy or not now

[Zinger2099]

Says he's done 'not nothing' ... ... Actually you have done nothing.

If I had done nothing, there would have been nothing for you to summarize and comment on. You can't have it both ways.

[Junpei]

Leonshade

ISO 3 He decides to pick out Rodion and tell him that a fullclaim would be a bad idea especially this early. This is something that many others have already said and there were more credible things to discuss.

ISO 3 His logic here is bad because the two statements are not contradictory. Either way he seems to be focusing on something trivial as Rodion is new to this site and this is probably a misunderstanding. As far as the fullclaim goes, I would say that given that the implication was that there was a speed lynch there is probably some lost-in-translation understanding between you two. Either way this post lacks logic or reason.

ISO 4 I like this post I guess. I mean it isn't a great post but I can't say it is bad. I understand why he is lynching Jilynne although he just says he its 'offputting' so he definitely is lacking logic. But that's a case where you don't really need logic. Other than that he answers a question. With 18 hours separating his 3 and 4 though, you'd think he'd have more to discuss than the scummy post at the top of the page.

ISO 5 So he says he finds Vifam scummy (BW tactic, he doesn't vote her so he's distancing himself from a lynch that ends in a d1 town death possibly). Also he keeps his vote on Jyl. Over a day has passed and this is all he has to say.

ISO 6 Lol'd when I read this one as it was the same thing I said. Anyways yeah, nothing else to note other than he defends his ISO 5 in 1 sentence.

ISO 7 Provides a logical reason to change his vote to Vifam I suppose, although it is a bit of a BW. Either way I like the way he explained why he was on the Jyls' lynchwagon and why he is no longer on it.

ISO 8 I like the first part of the post, although i don't like how all his posts thusfar are centralized on things that don't matter too much in comparison to all the other things going on. I also don't like how he isn't being detailed in why he thinks certain things as much as I'd like. This is also his first attempt at scumhunting through a non-vote in this game.

ISO 9 Part 1 is links to a game. Part 2 is responding to someone's case.

The last two posts are dumb.

I think that he hasn't posted nearly enough content and has made very little if any attempts at scumhunting or following up on his attempts. He isn't being productive and while he does chime in every now and again it is mostly fluff and it is always not as productive as it could be.

Once again my vote stays on Meran but I certainly find LeonShade suspicious for drifting between general opinions and and not actually searching for scum, which is often what scum do.

Pedit: Zinger that is the shittiest comment ever. Go respond in a serious manner and start posting content or start traveling because you'll be dead soon and you'll want to make the most of your short existence.

[ThAdmiral]

unvote

vote: davidxanatos

more later.

[vollkan]

148:

3isfrench+5

for attacking Vifam based on the number of suspects, which is a weak argument even in mini games, let alone when it is only 5 people in a large
159:

Vifam+7

for a "hey look over there" defence on the sheeping issue, which also involves a tacit admission that her own conduct was scummy
174:

DX+5

for egregious fence-sitting on Jily. (though, I don't think the attitude on Vifam is fence-sitting, since he makes his opinion clear)
239:

killer+5

for this accusation against Leonshade. Leon makes a perfectly reasonable post explaining why he isn't going to join the vifam wagon, and killer spins it as "distancing from the wagon". Of course, in a counterfactual, I have no difficulty believing that he would also have attacked Leon if Leon joined and escalated the wagon
267: @MOI: I'm confused here.The post Killer quoted had Leon agreeing with the VIfam wagon but not moving because it was too large (in fact, Killer himself made the vibes claim in favour of Vifam in 177)
285:

silverdrummer+5

for a very weak and game-irrelevant reason for voting Vifam. He openly admits that Vifam seems newbish, but then undermines this on the basis that if Vifam thinks he is experienced enough to have an alt, he can't be a newb. Needless to say, ANYBODY can make an alt; newbs have no reason to, but it doesn't mean that a person who has an alt is not a newb
289:

Leon+7

Pinky makes a very good case on Leon here. I don't agree with (A) on the distancing (see above), but the inconsistency point is valid

I join. From now on, I will play with fullquotes rather than review-style

---

This would be a contradiction if me thinking that Vifam has enough votes was a viewpoint that existed in a vacuum, but it did not. I don't think that there's a limit to the number of votes any given player should have, I just felt that Vifam, at that moment, had enough votes. I later found him scummier, thus meriting more votes.

So basically this comes down to a subjective judgment about how many votes is appropriate? What changed to make you think more votes was appropriate?

I think you had to run prematurely (post to be continued?), but these are your top 2 at the moment. I'll wait for the rest of your readings, but do know I expect a vote from you on your top scumspect.

Yeah, that's the way my system works.

I'm town tracker, nice BW putting tracker at L-2 derp.

I won't be voting Junpei today, absent CC

---

Player	Score
Meransiel	50
vezokpiraka	55
MagnaofIllusion	50
PeregrineV	50
Pappums Leather Jacket	50
Zinger2099	50
chkballin	50
marco1610	50
Pvt Slate	50
Nero Cain	50
David Xanatos	55
easjo682	50
Pinky and the Brain	55
ZeL1nK	50
andrew94	50
izakthegoomba	50
Pine	50
Chevre	50
ThAdmiral	50
Vifam Junpei	65
Rodion	60
Leonshade	64
ThreeIsFrench	55
killerjester	55
Oversoul	50
silverbullet999	55

Vote: Leonshade

[Meransiel]

I don't really care if he's usually inactive, I want him to be active this game. Creating a meta of being inactive d1 is stupid, and is a habit that needs to be kicked. If you are town then stop using your meta as an excuse to be lazy and help out.

I do that only in larges. Too much of a headache. Pretend there are 26 players for a day, it's not going to hurt you that much.

[vollkan]

I don't really care if he's usually inactive, I want him to be active this game. Creating a meta of being inactive d1 is stupid, and is a habit that needs to be kicked. If you are town then stop using your meta as an excuse to be lazy and help out.

I do that only in larges. Too much of a headache. Pretend there are 26 players for a day, it's not going to hurt you that much.

I agree with this. Lurkers are frustrating, but hunting them just wastes time - especially when the lurker is 1/27 rather than 1/13

[Junpei]

Noted.

Meran has just jumped up on my scumlist for responding to that post with nothing at all.

You have made posts that imply you'll eventually post something until you finally make a post saying to never expect anything from you. And then you say that you're too lazy and it 'isn't' going to hurt me that much' to have you gone all day? This seems like a scum tactic to get a free ride day 1.

[Meransiel]

Noted.

Meran has just jumped up on my scumlist for responding to that post with nothing at all.

You have made posts that imply you'll eventually post something until you finally make a post saying to never expect anything from you. And then you say that you're too lazy and it 'isn't' going to hurt me that much' to have you gone all day? This seems like a scum tactic to get a free ride day 1.

It is a scum tactic to get a free ride day 1.

[Junpei]

Noted.

Meran has just jumped up on my scumlist for responding to that post with nothing at all.

You have made posts that imply you'll eventually post something until you finally make a post saying to never expect anything from you. And then you say that you're too lazy and it 'isn't' going to hurt me that much' to have you gone all day? This seems like a scum tactic to get a free ride day 1.

It is a scum tactic to get a free ride day 1.

I'm assuming you're referring to my tracker claim? The difference is that with my role known, if I were mafia then there'd be other mechanical ways of trapping me and proving that I'm mafia. Your method is nothing more than 'i will not post till d2' which of course implies that you know you'll live d2. This also implies that we will have some benefit in not lynching you today. It also gives us to material to scumhunt you with in future days if you survive.

[vollkan]

@Meransiel: What is the benefit in you not posting D1?