Newbie 1120 - The Scum in Sherlock (Over!)

[Scumhunter]

Hi Albert, welcome to the game. I don't have a good hold of this game as is, so please don't be replacing in as scum, k thx.

Shah, working on a mega post...will be up eventually here.

[Scumhunter]

Shah, if you could explain what your “several” reasons for leaning town on Thor, I would appreciate it. Also, I’d like to know why you have Awesoma as your 2nd strongest town read?

In response to your points on me:

1.

As I touched on briefly, day 1 I had very serious concerns with what I perceived as Thor pushing for an actual quick lynch of cloud early on. He has tried passing it off as just a reaction test or that its day 1 and MLs happen and meh I was kind of letting that slide for a while. I was buying it, hence me backing off Thor a bit, but the more I get to thinking the more I’m thinking I shouldn’t be just letting that slide. Thor was talking about “flips” on page 1 and it sure didn’t look like a reaction test to me. I think its pretty hazardous to tunnel on people to the extent Thor does if he is town. It represents a lack of transparency with his thought process which is what I value in trying to gather town reads. So I can see why you would be suspicious at my change of attitude, but it mostly stemmed from my read on Thor. Below is an example of Thor’s attitude which I am doubting if I should believe:

Thor, why have you backed off so much on your scum read on me? It seems a bit unnatural to go from full-fledged attack mode on me yesterday to not even mentioning a bit of paranoia as to my alignment today. Why is that?

Because in this game people still have a hard time figuring out that when I say this;
"Obvious scum is super obvious, we should speed lynch him"
It's actually just IC speak - allow me to translate it into Newb speak;
"I'mma vote for pressure, lulz! No one hammer too quick cuz wants to see how he reacts!"
You should vote for Shahri though, she's obv. scum - 4 realz this time!!1! (swear!)

2.

2

. To answer that, could it be you're lying low today to try to detract attention from the fact that you did a bad, bad thing by hammering too early yesterday and cut off the day before everyone was ready and there were still several actual days left and thus no rush? And that you hammered someone you had vehemently defended most of the day and felt bad about lynching (your words)?

I have no problem with attention on me, if we want to discuss the hammer more feel free. If you didn’t want the hammer so bad, you should have been begging people to unvote since DK was at L-1. L-1 implies imminent lynch and is serious business. I don’t buy this “wagon for pressure” mumbo-jumbo, there are other ways to pressure other than just voting. Oh and I find it both humorous and annoying that I would be blamed for a hammer when I was the one spamming all day, “lets take this vote seriously lets try not to ML d1, every lynch represents an equal opportunity to lynch scum, which is our objective” As for voting someone who I was defending all day, I was defending cloud’s slot because the case and argument on him was utter garbage not because his play was super towny or anything. When DK replaced in for cloud and then proceeded to vote me with no explanation after I had been the only thing stopping him from him being lynched pages earlier, yea I was like WTF? His response was that he hadn’t really read the game and just was sheeping the biggest wagon or something to that effect. If I believed that, that makes him an incredibly bad townie whose loss, while bad, would probably just have been a ML down the line anyways. If he was lying, that makes him scum and yea that would mean hammering scum. We can cry over DK’s lynch if we want, but really there is no use, we have bigger issues at hand like the fact we up until recently had 2 inactive slots (1 of which was a top candidate for scum and not replaced in by a competent player in Albert) + the fact I don’t have almost any strong town reads really, which is bad bad news for me getting good reads as I base most of my reads off of my town reads tbh.

3. Not really sure what you are getting with “white-knighting”. I thought the case on cloud was horseshit, and how strongly Thor was pushing it made me think that Thor was aggressive scum pushing for a ML (which is very possible to have been the case). I get what you are saying with scum often leaving themselves open for multiple MLs, but I have said this multiple times now and I will say it again, my defense of cloud’s slot was purely based on the fact the case on him was logically a pile of crap. Later in the day when he lurked, replaced out, and ultimately placed a terribad vote on me, my feelings went from no way in hell to meh, its not a terrible lynch.

LMFAO at afraid of Thor, I ain’t NEVER SCURRED of no one. Do you really believe I’m scared? Do I seem to play like a scared player? Ever?

Oh, and tin-foil crazy theories are generally a town tell. Town like to consider all the possibilities or at least they should.

As for your Torqez/SH theory, not much I can say really about Torq’s pov. But here is a response to your selected isos from me.

Re: my iso 48: Ok, so I asked someone for their vote, not quite sure how you figure this implies scum as opposed to what it is (a townie asking for a support for a lynch)

Re: iso 49: I saw hiplop/Torqez as a possible scum pairing at that time, hence wanting to see if Torqez would support a hiplop lynch…

Re iso 54: If there is a JK who is not hiplop and they didn’t cc that is so terrible, words can’t describe it. I’ve heard that people don’t like to cc on even with multiple MLs, only 2 scum, and the chance to confirm a scum by merely claiming and saying the word. Refusal to do that would be so anti-town, the most retarded strategy ever, and it enrages to me to the point that every game I insist that if there was a CC, that they do so out loud and immediately. You can bet your ass if someone claimed my role I would cc in my very next post.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17230

I think this game might be helpful for you (particularly d1) Shah, as it shows how I react to someone attacking me strongly and eventually backing off. I end up thinking Pine is town for a while despite his very strong aggressiveness. Pine ended up stopping the push on me and what my impression was was that he had a town read or something on me through his “reaction test”. It just dawned on me that it reminds me a lot of my feelings toward Thor this game. I thought with Thor though that the reason he wasn’t pushing me was that his “reaction test” on me made him think I was town or something. But then he just said this…

I'd rather be 0-2 than N/A. There's nothing wrong with being 0-2.
If you flip town i'd analyze your wagon and start again. Right now, going on the presumption you're town, are lynched, and not getting to see the rest of the wagon - I'd probably look at Scumhunter.
Depends on the NK too though, there's some bubbling pots there as well.

So I guess what I’m getting at is I don’t really understand what Thor is getting at with all of his “you are obv scum comments” towards various people. If they are meant to be reaction tests, why do I still have no idea where Thor

really

stands when it comes to who he foses. What information are you gaining from these pushes Thor? You pushed hard on me, then basically ignored me for a long time, and now you would “probably look at me” again. I'd really like to see a full reads list from you on every slot in the game.

[hitogoroshi]

Vote Count #25

Shahrizai:

hellhound1, Thor665 (L-2)

Awesoma:

Albert B. Rampage

hellhound1:

hiplop

Torqez:

shahrizai

Not Voting:

zMuffinMan, Scumhunter

Day Two Deadline

(expired on 2011-07-29 19:00:00)

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

zMuffinMan replaces Awesoma. Thanks, Muffin!

I've added three days to the deadline to compensate for the multiple replacements.

[Scumhunter]

vote: Thor

I want to know what you

really

think about all the players in the game. None of this "I'm the IC, sheep me guys" stuff. We are already 1 ML down and can't afford another. I want to know all your reads, and perhaps more importantly, your thought process for how you attained them. Please and thank you

[Scumhunter]

Albert and Muffin replacing in, oh dear god, this should be an interesting game.

Good news: at least one of Albert, Muffin, Thor has to be town.
Bad news: It's quite possible two of them are scum

[zMuffinMan]

catching up when I am awake. Which is.... not now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNTxr2NJHa0

I find scum if the song climaxes.

[Thor665]

What information are you gaining from these pushes Thor?

Who will vote who, how and why.

You pushed hard on me, then basically ignored me for a long time, and now you would “probably look at me” again.

In the theoretical that Shah flips town - yes. What is the problem with that? After I look at you once it's scummy to look at you again? That makes no sense. By that logic you voting me is scummy.

I'd really like to see a full reads list from you on every slot in the game.

Awesoma - town
Hellhound1 - leaning town
shahrizai ninjacheese - Scum
Torqez (SE) Swag136 - leaning scum
hiplop (SE) - town
Scumhunter (SE) - leaning scum
Thor665 (IC) - bearded.

What's your full read on everyone?

[Scumhunter]

Thor, why would we lynch Shah? You have basically just said "sheep me and vote the obv scum", and to that the answer from me is hell no. Present a case, why should we lynch Shah?

Oh because of course you don't really mean obv scum, its just for reactions and IC blather....but omg we will get info from it...omg what info? /sarcasm. Not really getting your train of thought here Thor...

[Thor665]

I want [Shahri] lynched because I think Awesoma is town and I know DK and foilist were - what of it?

That's the case.
My working theory is that both scum were not on the DK wagon.
Before you go "this is a terrible case" I will point out in the last game you and I were both in this is the *exact* type of case I used on Day 2 to catch scum.

[Scumhunter]

Why is Awesoma town?

[Thor665]

We've had this discussion before, haven't we? I've certainly answered that question before - I could go re-quote it if you wish, but my reasons are the same now as then.

[Soben]

Yes, please requote it, I just iso'd you and Ctrl F'd Awesoma...not seeing any explanation...

[Scumhunter]

fail post on wrong account ^ sorry

Yes, please requote it, I just iso'd you and Ctrl F'd Awesoma...not seeing any explanation...

[Shahrizai]

Thor: Is "N/A" in reference to my not having a vote on anyone by the end of day yesterday? Because I would have had a vote on SOMEONE had I been given the opportunity to finish reading the game before the hammer was prematurely dropped. Also, why investigate Scumhunter after I flip town? Any particular reasons (other than the pile I'm about to put out here)?

In case you missed this?

Scumhunter:

First, leaning town on Thor because he seems to actually be reasoning through why he thinks someone is town or scum. He's also being lazy (i.e., "This worked in ONE game, so it's got to be true in this game,") but I don't think he's scum just because he's half-assing with today's lynch. He's done things specifically to move this game along, mainly on D1, which I also take as being town.

Re: me not wanting the hammer, I specifically asked that the day not be ended before I could catch up.

I'm working on my post; please don't end the day before I can say something!

This post was in reference to hiplop's L-1, but the subsequent wagon/lynch of DK happened before I could get back online and finish, and it was EXTREMELY frustrating. It took me a long time to read through all of those 16 pages, maybe too long, but I have a LOT going on outside of the game and needed more time than I thought I would. I was done by Saturday night, which would have still been well before the deadline if you hadn't hammered.

Re: By white-knighting, I mean you were basically fighting all of Cloud's battles for him from the get-go, and as town, you wouldn't have any reason to really be sure he was town at that point (no investigation), and that seems scummy to me, especially with your reaction to DK's vote on you. Again, you seem to be taking a lot of time to pointing out the things you are doing which are town-tells which reads more like you are following a script of how to appear town.

Re: ISO 48: Normally it wouldn't be that suspicious but in conjunction with the other things on my list, looks like you could be communicating with your buddy.

(I also don't agree that a PR must CC right away earlier in a game; there are some interesting gambits to be made by not doing so.)

Also, aside from Thor, who is scum?

(And this goes for everyone who hasn't just replaced in--can we try to pick up the pace a bit?)

[Thor665]

This is for Scumhunter.

My buttocks feel cold now.

@Hellhound - Let's break it down; Awesoma is new - I think we can both agree with that. The only way, to my mind, that he is scum right now is if he is actually pretty darn good at the game and is pulling a fairly elaborate double blind trick. Let's ignore that, and just go with the presumption he's a new player, yeah? So, let's walk it through;

Awsomascum - oh man, the heat is really on me! Everyone is figuring out I am scum! I've got to do something to get them off my back! I know, I'll claim! Yeeeeeaaah!!! That will get them to leave me alone! BRILLIANT! Now, I'll need to craft a brilliant and wonderful claim that will get them to leave me alone and not suspect me. Hay guyiz! Imma Vanilla, which means I'm basically pointless as far as protecting town power roles go!

::snicker:: they'll never lynch me now...mwu-hahahaha!

Seriously? You see that happening?
I don't.

Awesoma and Hellhound are town.
Cloud or Scumhunter should be lynched, and I'm starting to strongly lean Scumhunter - though, heck, maybe it's just because cloud is lurking out so hardcore.

@hiplop - you still alive man? What do you think of my four reads above?

@MOD - request cattle prod

[Thor665]

Thor: Is "N/A" in reference to my not having a vote on anyone by the end of day yesterday? Because I would have had a vote on SOMEONE had I been given the opportunity to finish reading the game before the hammer was prematurely dropped. Also, why investigate Scumhunter after I flip town? Any particular reasons (other than the pile I'm about to put out here)?

In case you missed this?

Because Scumhunter is scummy.

Also, aside from Thor, who is scum?

This is a good question...though i already asked it...though he already ducked it once so it bears repeating.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Will post Monday limited access weekends

[zMuffinMan]

So, slowly catching up, just took a quick look through the votecounts.

tsk, tsk, Thor, participating in a D1 lynch on DK. You're better than this.

Other than that, I have a few theories based on D1 votecount, and I'll see if my read through affirms these suspicions.

[zMuffinMan]

On page 7 now,

I am unquestionably town. Just look at my predecessor's name for more proof of this.
Hellhound1 is town
Thor is town
hiplop is town.

What's left?

Scumhunter, ninja/shah, and swag/torqez/Albert <== 2 scum there.

Is this one of them games where I have to explain stuff or is this fine?

More when I finish reading, which is currently happening in between watching stuff and playing games. I have a short attention span.

[zMuffinMan]

Oh, former me claimed on p7. Well, that ruins any chance I have of claiming a fake guilty on Albert. Also pretty sure it's not scumhunter.

[zMuffinMan]

HAHAHA,

Reading DK's posts is always fun. It was worth replacing into this just to read DK's posts.

Also had a good laugh at the last part of #229

Scumhunter's posts scream town but this: {Scumhunter: Thor665, hiplop, DeityKabuto, Awesoma (L-1!)} is giving me a headache. 4 town on a townie? Possible. Trying to figure out why scum didn't take the opportunity to hammer here. If Torqez is scum, he obviously couldn't. He didn't have a scum read on Scumhunter and he also thinks hammering looks scummy (he said this in one of his first big wall posts, cbf sifting through to find the quote). ninjacheese? Inactive at the time. Meh.

Oh, discussing 1082 on p11. I like discussing games I win. Incidentally, that game is part of the reason why I have a town read on Thor in this game. Don't ask me to explain this because it's not going to happen. It's more gut based on nuances in his posts that I picked up than specific similarities.

Skimming through foilist's walls, is there anything important in any of them? I'd read through them carefully if he was still alive, but I have no patience for reading through quote walls of dead players. Maybe if there were some pictures or something nice and shiny to distract me. But text-filled quote walls? No, thanks.

OK, so after p15, my reads haven't changed.

ninja/shah and torq/Albert are scum <- mostly based on PoE from town reads. Although torq's posts don't give me any town vibes whatsoever.

Much more sure that Scumhunter is town. Hellhound and hiplop are still town. Thor still town. Like if either Albert or shah flips town at this point, I will be amazed.

Finishing my read through soon.

[zMuffinMan]

So.

Hiplop claimed JK. Doesn't change my read on him.
Says he jailed Thor. Doesn't change my read on Thor, either.

We start the day with arguments about Hellhound being scum, but he is so obviously town.

Bad.

shah/torq still scum.

#543 made me laugh hard, especially because I imagined the "he doubts mah role" part sounding like "they took our jobs" south park style.

Woah... woah...

Wait up.

#546. What have we got here?

Is dat some distancing I see? Or are we planning to bus all the way?

#600. bad Thor, shah scum flip does not mean torq/albert is town.

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnndddddddddddddddddddddddd

I'm done.

shah or Albert wagon. I'm fine with either.

Scumhunter, hiplop, hellhound, Thor all town.

Woo. I'm awesome.

VOTE: Shah

Seems to be the wagon of choice of the two.

And what's funny is I don't even have a case on Shah apart from PoE.

Someone wanna bulletpoint the reason/s they think Shah is scum so I can be like "yeah I totally agree"?

L-1, btw.

No derphammers.

[zMuffinMan]

Also...

hiplop should announce his target before we go into night phase. If we lynch scum today, and there's a NK, whoever is jailed by hiplop is conf.town. Surprised no one has mentioned this yet.

[Thor665]

I don't mention those strategies because they always give me too much WIFOM.

If Shah flips town I do think it looks immensely like Torq=town for two reasons.
1. Both scum off the DK wagon? I doubt it.
2. He really has been her only legitimate push - all she's doing is distancing? I doubt it.

My summary of the Shah case is - PoE, so I actually appreciate that you already came in and said you agree with it.

Who do you think is scum amongst me and hiplop? Because your note about the Scumhunter wagon is making me nervous about you since I agree with it.

[zMuffinMan]

Uh...

I'm having a hard time figuring out what you're actually saying.

Do you mean if Shah flips scum, Torq(Albert) is town?
If so, what relevance does (1) have?
If not, what relevance does (2) have?

Also, it hasn't been Shah's only legitimate push, unless you're not counting the Hellhound push.

I actually do think that Scumhunter L-1 wagon consisted of 4 townies on a townie. It only got to L-1 because derpDK and former me both voted Scumhunter in quick succession. I had a town read on hiplop the whole way through the game, and I've got a town read on you because you have a beard. Plus if Scumhunter is town, my theory about why he wasn't hammered makes sense (ninja was inactive and hadn't been replaced by shah at that point, and it would have made no sense for torq to hammer).

I actually can't see any of {Thor, hiplop, Scumhunter} flipping scum at this point. And I'm pretty sure Hellhound1 is town, too. Like... If I'm wrong about either shah or Albert, I'll need to seriously reconsider my reads. But I'd rather not second guess at this point.