Succession Mafia II: OVER!

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The 200 pages of hell and Mod Fuckery that is Recamonic's Ocarina of Time mafia.

[Mr. Flay]

Third Vote Count of Day Four:

Darox - 5 (populartajo, bvoigt, Yosarian2, Seraphim, Cobblerfone)
bvoigt - 3 (Magister Ludi, xvart, Zdenek)
populartajo - 2 (DrippingGoofball, Darox)
DrippingGoofball - 2 (ooba, Lady Lambdadelta)
Seraphim - 2 (ConSpiracy, Battousai)
Bunnylover - 1 (Nobody Special)
Zdenek - 1 (Flameaxe)

Not Voting: Bunnylover, Herodotus

With 18 voters present, it will take 10 votes to lynch.

[Darox]

I'll post something in the morning.

Stay tuned.

[ConSpiracy]

How does it match his play? What do you usually see him do as town that he is doing here?

His play was, no offence, not one of the clearest and I remember him using alternative scumhunting which got town zdenek lynched earlier.

Zdenek

, can you remember the game we both played in? I can't, but I can remember playing with you. Maybe a game I replaced in later orso?

[Zdenek]

How does it match his play? What do you usually see him do as town that he is doing here?

His play was, no offence, not one of the clearest and I remember him using alternative scumhunting which got town zdenek lynched earlier.

Zdenek

, can you remember the game we both played in? I can't, but I can remember playing with you. Maybe a game I replaced in later orso?

I think my wiki is complete and I just checked through it. Unless you have an alt or I failed to add a game to it, we haven't played together before.

[ConSpiracy]

How does it match his play? What do you usually see him do as town that he is doing here?

His play was, no offence, not one of the clearest and I remember him using alternative scumhunting which got town zdenek lynched earlier.

Zdenek

, can you remember the game we both played in? I can't, but I can remember playing with you. Maybe a game I replaced in later orso?

I think my wiki is complete and I just checked through it. Unless you have an alt or I failed to add a game to it, we haven't played together before.

I will check your wiki. Maybe there is a game that I've read or replaced in later or something.

But first, I am reading day 2 at the moment. Let's see what comes out of it.

[Cobblerfone]

I'm anticipating Darox's post.

I find this train of thought ridiculous since you voted DGB less than 24 hours previously.

I waited 24 hours because this game feels slow again. But then, I've been in marathon. If you really think I'm mafia, go ahead. Since the cult will have to die anyway and then the town will win. To be honest I think masons/neighbors with a shared nightkill are more probable than there being a mafia at this point since Kinetic is proven to be a liar. And it would be awesome. Though it's probably just a vig and an even-night vig.

[ConSpiracy]

And I am done with Day 2. Luckily that took me less than Day 1, which was a beast to read...
Again in order of Most likely to least likely.
Note that Bvoigt/Tanarin/Ooba are in both lists. I highly doubt Ooba would be a day 2 recruit, but it's still possible. Actually, all of these "cultreads" are a lot less strong than the ones on Day 1.

Day 1 recruit list

Bvoigt

– Does hardly anything but flavour discussion/rolefishing and lurks just enough to not do anything and get away with it. Worst change of vote ever with the worst reason ever ("Jesus").

Ooba

– Reasoning is bad, would make a nice First recruit, lurky but not scummy lurky.

Tanarin

– Lurky and didn’t do anything townish, ignored all day by everyone but tajo.

Herodotus

– Bad and lurky and used only WIFOMish reasons

<- Not cult day 2, too much of a risk.

Seraphim

– Promising but no content.

<- Not cult day 2, first post is to condemn/confirm someone.

Day 2 recruit list

LLD

– Where did she go? She went from accusing others constantly day 1 to bandwagoning a lot in day 2. Once called out for it, she suddenly picks up activity.

Tanarin

– What the hell is this guy doing? Even less than day 1.

Bvoigt

– Continues to say things that are not lurky enough, but also not attacking enough to get in the picture.

Flameaxe

– Does a good job not doing much.

Ooba

– Track whut? Isn’t that vocal until he is questioned by “Kinetic’s tracking”-misread. Vote for DGB is scumtastic.

Taking a break, other duties come later.

[Herodotus]

Just a thought; no idea if this will be fruitful for anyone.

springlullaby was Unrecruitable. Glance at her iso; she was almost taunting both Kinetic & ABR from the beginning. Perhaps she knew this?

Then, supposing a recruitment attempt was made, and obviously failed, she was murdered.

Again, I don't see anything to be gleaned from this, but perhaps someone with a better Mafia Brain can do something with it.

Even if the scum knew she was unrecruitable, there were more dangerous targets to kill due to revealed roles, unless her reads were perfect. I will be assuming the kill was done by a vig for now. Also, individuals who have not already claimed are helping the scum to PR hunt when they speculate.

Though if kinetic tried and failed to recruit her, that would be great as it would mean he has fewer recruits. I don't see any way to use the information even if we assumed it was true.

Herodotus

– Bad and lurky and used only WIFOMish reasons

Now that I know you were talking about day 1, I'd dispute that, but it doesn't matter. Not at all.

[Flameaxe]

It was your paragraph of opinions that was a waste of time, not opinions in general and the problem was that you said that it was a result of skimming my iso.

I fail to see the problem. I had a gut read, I followed up on it with a skimming of an iso. Your iso isn't difficult to gain something from with a skim when there isn't much there.

No. You've been pressing the idea that there is no connection between roles and profession, but when it suits you, you argue based on the idea that there is a connection. Now, in one paragraph you go from saying that you had no reason to believe a compatibility between role and profession, to saying that you will doubt any claims because it is a cult game, to saying that you doubted his claim because he is a corrupt cop. This does not add up at all, and looks like you are searching for reasons for doubting him rather than just giving ones that make sense.

I pressed the idea that there is no connection between roles and profession on day one when I had no reason to believe there was any connection due to my own role and posts made by the mod. I even said in that post [to Hero day two], that I haven't seen any reason to believe this was a smalltown game. That was the last time I pushed the no connection.

I don't trust claims (and I mean information claims, and have always meant information claims) in a cult game because of one substantial reason. Recruiting a cop and using his ability to influence the town ended up being a main reason my cult won Succession 1. I'll have my suspicions on any player who trusts a claim this late in the game.

Again, I'll state that during this whole mess, Hero hadn't actually claimed a guilty on anyone in particular, and having my annoyance turn towards suspicion for the continuing the trend of softclaiming in this game really shouldn't seem all too farfetched.

The lynches on day 2 and 3 were obvious.

Wow, am I glad my vote is on you.

Day two started on June 17th, Hero claimed his guilty on June 24th. That is one week. That is half of the day. That is 50% of the day that the lynch was not "obvious", and 50% of the day that you did not put any reasoning out, vote me, or convince anyone to vote me. I call bullshit on day two.

Day three was an obvious lynch? I disagree. The Katsuki wagon didn't really take off until mid/late day, with plenty of counter-wagon potential (and attempts!). The Kat lynch was in no way a reason for you to ignore pushing a wagon on me. All you are giving here are blatant excuses, and not good ones.

[Yosarian2]

I don't trust claims (and I mean information claims, and have always meant information claims) in a cult game because of one substantial reason. Recruiting a cop and using his ability to influence the town ended up being a main reason my cult won Succession 1. I'll have my suspicions on any player who trusts a claim this late in the game.

Again, I'll state that during this whole mess, Hero hadn't actually claimed a guilty on anyone in particular, and having my annoyance turn towards suspicion for the continuing the trend of softclaiming in this game really shouldn't seem all too farfetched.

What are your thoughts on ML's claim, then? Especially the part where ML claimed that his role had the ability to know if Hero gets recruited.

[populartajo]

Looks like I'm set up for the laziest lynch yet. Good times.

Fun fact: I targeted Herodotus on nights 2 and 3.

DIE SOFTCLAIMER SCUM DIE SCUM DIE SCUM DIE SUCK DIE SCUM DIE.

[populartajo]

Im getting more and more paranoid about Hero and I dont like it.

Could I get the longer version of this? Do you think I'm cult, and if so, why?

longer version:
i think you are scum since day 1
yes you got the guilty on prozac but this doesnt mean you are not scum
in fact, if I were a recruiter I would have recruited since you are going to live long for your utility

[Yosarian2]

So...tajo, is your theory that Hero and ML are both scum together, or what?

[bvoigt]

@Con: What makes it a scumpost?

Call me CS, dammit!

He just want others to figure out what is going on and gives a reason to vote for a lynch on Darox/DGB and Hero.

I read day 1 and one of these guys Kinetic recruited day 1 in order from most likely to least likely:

Day 1 recruit list

Bvoigt

– Does hardly anything but flavour discussion/rolefishing and lurks just enough to not do anything and get away with it. Worst change of vote ever with the worst reason ever ("Jesus")

Ooba

– Reasoning is bad, would make a nice First recruit, lurky but not scummy lurky.

Tanarin

– Lurky and didn’t do anything townish, ignored all day by everyone but tajo

Herodotus

– Bad and lurky and used only WIFOMish reasons

Seraphim

– Promising but no content.

All others are not day 1 recruit. Next days will point out which of these can be striped of the list to have one/two left.

I'm not a fan of any of these reasons. You mention lurking for all 5-- however, there are several lurky players you don't mention, like Bunnylover and Zdenek. And the other points are just as bad. By flavor discussion and rolefishing, are you referring to how I tried to get Cobblerfone lynched because I didn't believe his claim? And that "worst change of vote ever" was made just before the deadline to avoid a no-lynch. Furthermore, I thought ooba's reasoning on Day 1 was pretty good (here, for example).

For one thing, the Cobblerfone case was made in previous days, but it was well-reasoned. Although he could have been recruited since then, a town read from Day 2 or 3 or whatever still decreases the chance of someone being scum. And while he did say the case on you was "mostly gut," there are concrete reasons to back it up: throwing out names without truly pushing wagons, committing to few opinions and votes, and passivity.

So you think Flameaxe is town because he made a case against Cobbler and gave some reasons to be suspicious of someone.

Also, there is no chance that any recruiter would have recruited Cobbler after Day 1. The fact that your even suggesting it is a pretty good reason for you to be lynched because it shows that you aren't thinking like a townie, and are just making stuff up.

Yes, I thought he made a good case against Cobbler, the player whom I thought was most likely to be scum on Day 1. What, in your opinion, is incorrect or scummy about that? And when I was saying that "he could have been recruited since then," I was referring to Flameaxe.

Well, even if he did claim a guilty on me, I wouldn't be convinced he's scum. I just don't see the scum motivation for claiming a false guilty, because it would undoubtedly result in a 1-for-1 trade. Instead, I would wonder if there is a framer or something.

That's not what I was getting at. You were trying to play it cool, and now, you are showing that you were thinking like scum, and looking for ways to argue against his claim, rather than simply knowing before hand that it was false.

I now prefer bvoigt to Flameaxe.

Unvote
Vote bvoigt

Um...the easiest way to argue against Hero's claim would be to call him scum. And I just explained why I didn't really think the claim was a complete lie.

[Flameaxe]

@Hero: To clarify:

The second ability pertains to Herod. Because we 'work the beat' together (cops), I know if he has been recruited that night or not. As it stands he has not been recruited on night one or night two.

Is this two-ways? (AKA, do you have the same information about Ludi?

[ConSpiracy]

Now that I know you were talking about day 1, I'd dispute that, but it doesn't matter. Not at all.

So... Because I said you aren't possible to be a day 1 recruit you stop showing why my reasoning is wrong in your eyes? You don't want to show why I may have made up things and find a possible recruit in the reasoning? I have never found somebody that wants to keep away from discussion as much as possible. Congratulations, you just earned extra attention in the next days.

1.

I'm not a fan of any of these reasons.

2.

You mention lurking for all 5--

3.

however, there are several lurky players you don't mention, like Bunnylover and Zdenek. And the other points are just as bad.

4.

By flavor discussion and rolefishing, are you referring to how I tried to get Cobblerfone lynched because I didn't believe his claim?

5.

And that "worst change of vote ever" was made just before the deadline to avoid a no-lynch.

6.

Furthermore, I thought ooba's reasoning on Day 1 was pretty good (here, for example).

1.

You don't have to be a fan of my reasons.

2.

The lurking is a major part of my choosing possible cult-recruits since the first day is vital to be alive. However it is not every thing, others may have town tells and you and ooba have scum tells as well. Tanarin was just a complete lurkfest.

3.

Zdenek I have explained already why I didn't put him in the list and let me look up why I didn't post bunnylover in the list...
I think it was this post: (I lost my notes somewhere)

Bah, really really really hate culted games.
Why did I sign up for this v-v.

Of course there could be WIFOM, but this is not a post a cult player would make.
On top of that she is constantly telling us to culthunt, not to scumhunt. If we indeed have either a mafia or a SK, she would be a nice candidate.

4.

Yes I meant that and this:

@Battousai: I would also like to know flavor, please. Also, will the mod tell us that xvart is unable to be lynched?

This piece of gold shows that you weren't trying to bust Cobblerfone in his unrecruitable fake-claim. Because if you were, you wouldn't have asked this flavour as you couldn't do anything with it. I see no town reason to have all the flavour in the open.

5.

Wagons were 6 vs. 7. Still no need to switch. If you really wanted xvart over Chrono, you'd have others switch. And on top of that, I agreed with Battousai there, a lynch wasn't necessary at all and the last minute changers are far more likely to be scum: (bvoigt, poro, kats, Inhim, Andrius) 2 out of 5, not a bad score. (And I mean you and poro/kats, just one of them was recruited)

6.

At first, the Yos paranoia is bull shit. That's not good reasoning. I recall ooba being far better than that.
And read this this (wishy-washy, far-stretched theories), this (answer on DGB, not town)

@Flameaxe

, please use names in your quotes. I had no clue from which player the quotes were from and searching for it is quite annoying.

@Zdenek

, Will search the game tomorrow. I'm not in the mood right now.

[Battousai]

Con- that quote is about my fake protect on xvart, I don't see the point in that... point.

Cobbler- Your last post made me realize something. Who mentioned there being a scum group in this game? Kinetic. What proof do we have that there is one? None. I find it suspect that Ooba/Sera both believed that I was scum (not cult). It's like they are either listening to Cult (stupid), or trying to push the idea further (Kinetic recruit).

[DrippingGoofball]

Conspiracy is not culted.

[ConSpiracy]

Con- that quote is about my fake protect on xvart, I don't see the point in that... point.

At that point, nobody knew it was a fake protect, yet bvoigt wanted to have the flavour.

Conspiracy is not culted.

Next time, ask. That's far easier.

[populartajo]

So...tajo, is your theory that Hero and ML are both scum together, or what?

I dont see how Heroscum means ML is scum??

[Battousai]

CS- "This piece of gold shows that you weren't trying to bust

Cobblerfone

in his unrecruitable fake-claim. Because if you were, you wouldn't have asked this flavour as you couldn't do anything with it. I see no town reason to have all the flavour in the open." In reply to bv wanting flavor on XVART.

[bvoigt]

CS: Bunnylover and Zdenek are just two examples. Dry-fit and Chronopie flipped town already. It's true that Katsuki lurked, but IIRC, he wasn't recruited until later in the game. And Porochaz was one of the most active players. I don't see how you can say that (what you consider) lurking is a scumtell when there are a number of townies who have lurked.

I was trying to catch Battousai in a lie the same way I probably did with Cobbler. How does it benefit scum to have flavor in the open when everyone except the cult recruiters starts with a town role PM?

We were in serious danger of a no lynch, and with my switch, the Chrono wagon had 2 more than the xvart wagon. I strongly disagree that a lynch was unnecessary, but whatever.

In that second post you linked, what makes ooba's response to DGB scummy?

[Cobblerfone]

I dont see how Heroscum means ML is scum??

Herodotus and Ludi claimed that they are informed if the other is converted.

[bvoigt]

Where?