Mini 1183: Mafiamatical Mathia - Game over!


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Post Post #700 (ISO) » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:45 am

Post by implosion »

Twistedspoon wrote:oh, and if hoppster can get away with this then my next mini normal will have 8
death
millers, 2 cops and 3 mafia
death
godfathers.

FTFY

(although really, I don't think the setup was bad for having two mafia neighbors)

Though yeah, it should have been easy on the last day (it was). Juls was clear from having been jailkept the night of a kill (i have no idea what the roleblocker theory was, hoppster SAID that RB vs JK = no kill) and don was clear from the brute fact that if he were scum, he'd have endgamed Juls and Morthas. I would have been a very sad panda if that ended in a failure.

Also, oopidstay's death should have been at least a mild indicator of morthas as scum, seeing as a godfather scum would have literally no reason to kill him over don, whereas I think i told oopid to investigate morthas (which he did, so morthas did the right thing killing him).
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Post Post #701 (ISO) » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:53 am

Post by Twistedspoon »

nah, keep them regular millers and see if the town figure it out ;)
1 Thessalonians 5:21: Test everything, but hold fast onto what is good

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Post Post #702 (ISO) » Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:02 am

Post by Wickedestjr »

gg town. Thanks Hoppster. And no replacements!
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Post Post #703 (ISO) » Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:05 am

Post by Oopidstay »

Whomp. Hoppster, you conniving fiend, you. (lol jk, but yeah, that was a bit bastardly.)

gg, town. I was actually paranoid of a godfather, too, so lynching the cop targets was probably inevitable. At least PoE managed to whittle it down.

As for my little self-vote at the beginning of the game, part of it was to get reactions from people. The other part was to get enough suspicion on me so I wouldn't be a NK target for being too town.
Who you callin' oopid...(sigh) nvm.
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Post Post #704 (ISO) » Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:05 am

Post by Oopidstay »

Oh, and good game, Hoppster. This was a fun game to play (because I died before the mayhem ensued lol).
Who you callin' oopid...(sigh) nvm.
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Post Post #705 (ISO) » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:30 am

Post by Hoopla »

I was loosely following this game as it was developing, and I'm pleased that the town played the game based on suspicion rather than outguessing the setup. It's tempting to make game decisions based upon that, especially in situations where it seems unlikely a mod would choose such a role combination.

I can understand Juls' perspective on this, but in the interest of developing and enforcing guidelines in an objective manner (or as close to it as possible), Mafia Neighbours should be a viable role option. The key defining element of a Neighbour is their unconfirmed alignment, so a neighbour flipping scum
shouldn't
confirm the rest of the neighbourhood as town. Meta has slowly evolved to see more roles given to mafia; Mafia Trackers, Watchers, Gunsmiths etc. are all becoming relatively commonplace (for better or for worse) - so, unless it was explicitly outlawed, a Mafia Neighbour pair shouldn't have been seen as impossible, even if the role was somewhat redundant.

This is the sort of reaction I expect when the first Mafia 1-shot Vig gets used. Although technically a viable role as well, it strongly betrays town's trust in this role's meta, as their whole belief system is calibrated from only seeing town vigilantes before. I'm not sure you can reasonably forbid this role from being given to mafia, much in the same way you can't really forbid two mafia neighbours. The only reason you could forbid something like this, is if you believe it's acceptable to ban a mafia-aligned role if it has never been given to scum before. There had to be a time when Mafia Tracker and Mafia Watcher were first used, and I'm sure the town would have felt equally hard done by in those situations, because it's something they couldn't reasonably expect based on meta.

Disallowing something because it's never been done before only serves to stifle the evolution of the game. I think if two Mafia Neighbours ever get used again, it will go a long way to causing doubt over the validity of neighbour pairings, much in the same way a Tracker claim doesn't necessarily confirm you as town any more.

I hope this explains my position a little more - I'm happy to answer questions about this, though.
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Post Post #706 (ISO) » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:16 am

Post by don_johnson »

I dont think it was "bastard", but I certainly think the wiki should be updated. I agree with what hoopla has posted, but the wiki should be a reliable source of info, and in this case it is not.
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Post Post #707 (ISO) » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:36 am

Post by Hoopla »

What in the wiki was unreliable? What do you think should be said?
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Post Post #708 (ISO) » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:19 am

Post by don_johnson »

wiki wrote:A Neighbor is a person who may night talk with one or more other people,
but no one in the group is certain of the others' alignments
.


^^this. maybe an addendum(possibly referencing this game if need be) should be added that neighbors may
or may not
be certain of each others alignments.
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Post Post #709 (ISO) » Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:41 am

Post by Quilford »

Post the Role PMs, please.
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Post Post #710 (ISO) » Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:49 am

Post by implosion »

Quilford wrote:Post the Role PMs, please.

he did in post 689.
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Post Post #711 (ISO) » Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:52 am

Post by Twistedspoon »

implosion wrote:
Quilford wrote:Post the Role PMs, please.

he did in post 689.

this is true
1 Thessalonians 5:21: Test everything, but hold fast onto what is good

"Murder is no better than cards if cards can do the trick"
~Screwtape
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Post Post #712 (ISO) » Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:19 pm

Post by Quilford »

hurrr I missed them. thanks
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Post Post #713 (ISO) » Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:52 pm

Post by theplague42 »

Thread-necro fail.


Link to Role PMs added to OP. Locking this now.

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Post Post #714 (ISO) » Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:59 pm

Post by Papa Zito »

fin.
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