Mini 1193: Hacker's Panic mafia. (Game Over)

[CooLskins]

Holy crap. Somebody please tell me why the hell we're lynching bobs instead of Zodiark. Zodiark virtually tatooed the words "I am scum" to his ass an then mooned the world. Seriously. He got caught in a major contradiction dealing with the mislynch he was currently pushing. He jumped around to all of the major wagons of the day and generated virtually zero positive content. And now we're scrapping the wagon on him for bobs? The whole wagon on bobs is contrived and scummy as hell. We weren't even talking about a bobs lynch until fitz came in and threw all sorts of crap out in a desperate attempt to save his scumbud (also, let me remind you that fitz is part of the same slot as kondi of "random unexplained L-1 vote on a townie" fame.)

We've caught two of the three scum (Zodiark and Fitz), and I'm betting that the third scum was somebody on the hrez lynch wagon. So I'm going resume my re-read of that wagon now.

[Parama]

Bwahahaha, dj's definitely the scum neighbor. "I think bobsnox is scum, and I think Parama is scum by association, so let me lynch the player who I feel is scum by association instead of the one who I feel is scum for actual reasons."
At least the Zodiark wagon's the leading wagon again

[deselby]

Three people are still alive who were on both the Beck and Hrezs mislynches: bobsnox, Parama and xvart. I've changed my mind about bobsnox and am leaning town on him. That leaves me with parama and xvart out of the three common mislynchers. With three scum in this game (unless anyone thinks otherwise) I am banking on at least one scum in that group of three. After my skim through read I find Parama more suspect than xvart (subject to change) so he gets my vote. I haven't mentioned most of the players...Zodiark did not stand out in my read. I'm not confident that either of the L-2 wagons are scum.

Interesting that zodiark doesn't stand out, but people who were on wagons that both seemed to me pretty scummy at the time are your targets. Are you honestly saying that you did not think beck and hrezs acted scummy?


I can see why there is suspicion around of the bobs-parama mutual fan club. However, I think the bobs claim would have been risky as scum, and I can buy some of the confusion arising from bobs clumsiness. I can see parama as scum, but Zodiark and the kondi-ah-hf slot are definitely preferable lynches IMO.

@parama - I havent voted until now because I at least wanted to hear from the 2 replacements. However, with the wagon building elsewhere in spite of zodiark's scumminess:

vote: zodiark. THIS IS L-1

fos: havingfitz

[don_johnson]

parama, i don't think you're reading correctly. i thought i clearly stated that your actions were scummy independent of bobs alignment, not the other way around. the fact that you claim to have picked up his softclaim(no way in hell you interpreted him as "tracker", so you had to think he was most likely cop), and when he claimed a much less reliable role, you haven't questioned it one bit. thats odd to me.

not sure what to make of des placing someone at L-1 while trying to "wait" for replacements to post. parama claimed vt which means his lynch isn't an uber loss to town, so accelerating the counterwagon out of "fear" doesn't make sense at all. thanks des. way to tie yourself to parama.

bob: independent of your "track", how do you feel about parama and why?

[don_johnson]

also, regarding zod's "contradiction", i don't find anything wrong with changing one's mind. it happens all the time. if the posts were within a couple hours of each other with no posting in between(were they?) then it may be construed as scum backtrack, but i came out of the gate thinking blok was scum for his hammer but after rethinking it i changed my mind. so whatever. i think the zodiark case is a mountain out of a mole hill.

parama: i don't think there is a scum neighbor. xvart is posting pretty protown.

[Parama]

I never claimed VT. DJ, I don't think you're reading correctly.
FTR tracker is a less safe claim for mafia than cop is.
You don't think there's a scum neighbor because you are the scum neighbor and by emphasizing that you think your neighbor is town you're trying to draw attention away from the neighborhood and decrease the likelihood of you getting lynched. Well that plan failed. I never did say anything about xvart being scum, by the way.

[bobsnox]

I've changed my mind about bobsnox and am leaning town on him.

??????????

so we all know that tracker doesn't "clear" someone of scum alignment, yet bob is acting like his clear of parama is guaranteed. parama is going along with it without question. odd.

Misrep here. I am leaning town on Parama because his play has been protown, IMO (see Zodiark for antitown). I have never said he was 100% clear. I said we needed more evidence before we could lynch him because MY evidence suggested he was not scum. I said the same about Zodiark but his play has been scumtastic through and through. That's why I support his lynch over Parama.

now bob claims to have trakced his biggest scumread last night whom he has also stated would not be the player on the scum team to be sent to perform the kill.

as an afterthought, yeah.

details have not come out clean. thats the thing about fake claims, its hard to get everything to fit. the fact that this seems so jumbled it what makes me suspicious.

But show me the scum motivation behind anything I've done! For crying out loud, I have asked SEVERAL times for someone to do that, but you guys keep rehashing the same crap. "bob mispoke...bob said the wrong thing...bob forgot that he originally said ___ before anyone else...bob backed down from a Zodiark lynch...bob has two theories which are mutually exclusive" but WHY did I do any of that if I'm scum?

bobs defense is, "well why would i protect parama?"

what post is this referring to?

if parama is town, he should at least have been suspicious of you at some point. but he wasn't. in fact, he accepted your soft claim without question. maybe he even claims to have known which power role you were claiming

Exactly, and I've been acting like a Tracker this whole time.

but common sense says, "you clear parama, parama has to assume you are cop, you claim tracker, parama should at least question you."

stop the misrep! I never cleared anyone. I didn't even mistakening use the word "clear" with regards to Parama.

bob is now saying "well keep me alive for a couple days, we probably don't have a cop." baiting out town power is not good form my friend.

How is that baiting? Stop reaching. I never asked or implied that I wanted anyone to claim. I was analyzing the history of this game.

[bobsnox]

Three people are still alive who were on both the Beck and Hrezs mislynches: bobsnox, Parama and xvart. I've changed my mind about bobsnox and am leaning town on him. That leaves me with parama and xvart out of the three common mislynchers. With three scum in this game (unless anyone thinks otherwise) I am banking on at least one scum in that group of three. After my skim through read I find Parama more suspect than xvart (subject to change) so he gets my vote. I haven't mentioned most of the players...Zodiark did not stand out in my read. I'm not confident that either of the L-2 wagons are scum.

Interesting that zodiark doesn't stand out, but people who were on wagons that both seemed to me pretty scummy at the time are your targets. Are you honestly saying that you did not think beck and hrezs acted scummy?

This guy is town. Good post deselby.

[bobsnox]

also, regarding zod's "contradiction", i don't find anything wrong with changing one's mind. it happens all the time.

I don't know how you can say something like that in light of what his contradiction was:

Vote:Celebloki

Hammering a claimed OSV = bad

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day = terrible

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day just because the claimed OSV is a VI = scum

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day just because the claimed OSV is a VI, and the claimed OSV flips OSV = if your not scum, I need to relearn how to scumhunt.

Celeblokis refusal should make him jump up in scumminess, but for some reason it just gives of a town vibe.

And honestly, hammering a VI is hardly a massive scumtell.

It wasn't "changing his mind" - it was a contradiction in his line of reasoning with NO reference to his directly opposite statements in his prior post. He contradicted himself just so he could join the biggest wagon (which he did 3 times prior to today IIRC!).

His play has been a mountain of scummy - no molehills there.

[CooLskins]

also, regarding zod's "contradiction", i don't find anything wrong with changing one's mind. it happens all the time. if the posts were within a couple hours of each other with no posting in between(were they?) then it may be construed as scum backtrack, but i came out of the gate thinking blok was scum for his hammer but after rethinking it i changed my mind. so whatever. i think the zodiark case is a mountain out of a mole hill.

parama: i don't think there is a scum neighbor. xvart is posting pretty protown.

*Facepalm*

Allow me to redirect you back to the case I made against Zodiark earlier:

Crap!

Okay, to make sure I don't do that again, I'm changing the hydra theme to mobile. That way I'll never be able to mistake accounts again. Anyway, as to the case:

Okay, here's a more in-depth case that will hopefully fullfill Zodiark's needs. After producing virtually no content whatsoever on D-1, Zodiark posts this:

Hrezs, Zodiark, don, xvart, and kondi all need to post more; they all have 5 or less posts, and at least one of those is pregame for each.

-ponders for a moment-

-looks back at the quicklynch the day before-

-leers-

vote: Hrezs

since there's two more scum, and Hrezs is one of them.

Hows this work again? I came back to read the game and the thread was closed.

Also you just called

3

people scum, and said

2

more scum left?

Sounds like a scumslip.

Vote: Parama

Of note: I havent actually read day 1

Can you say epic reaching?

Vote:Celebloki

Hammering a claimed OSV = bad

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day = terrible

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day just because the claimed OSV is a VI = scum

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day just because the claimed OSV is a VI, and the claimed OSV flips OSV = if your not scum, I need to relearn how to scumhunt.

Relavent part is bolded. Uses very strong language to indicate that he thinks celi is scum. Says that if celi isn't scum that he needs to relearn how to scumhunt. Next post:

Coolskins said something about not wanting to play with newbies. Deselby claimed to be a newbie. Coolskins said I'm looking forward to playing with you. I would quote but it's hard with the phone. Seems to me like Coolskins and deselby had time to get acquainted in scumchat before the game.

Going back over the game, I feel I should point out the slight misrep here.

Wait, we've got a hydra in the game? Not too pleased about that.

yes actually. I believe I made it very clear in the queue that this is a hydra. If you are very much apposed to it (after talking to bub) we could easily replace out.

@Beck, okay, I just didn't want to have two complete noobs like we had last game that we played in.

@coolskins, I am a noob, I have played 1 newbie game. I will try not to damage your sanity too much.

CooLskins said, and I quote, that he "didn't want two complete noobs...", not that he didn't want to play with noobs full stop.

Makes some slightly irrelavent comments and does nothing to further the wagon on a person whom he thinks is certainly scum. Next post:

Celeblokis refusal should make him jump up in scumminess, but for some reason it just gives of a town vibe. And honestly, hammering a VI is hardly a massive scumtell.

Unvote

C'est moi? Xvart is my neighbor btw. So im a wee bit shocked by the accusation.

I don't like this one bit. It reads of "I'm getting a little suspicion, so I'm going to claim to try to get into the 'obvtown' chair".

It is true. We are neighbors. I've been racking my brain for the life of me about our moderator and his opinions on neighbors since we were in a game together a while back and there were two town neighbors but

Humble didn't say anything definitive about neighbors and alignments other than alignments are unknown

. don did not talk in the neighbor QT at all pre game.

The bolded just makes dons claim worse. He conveniently forgot to mention that he doesn't know his neighbors alignment, which would be an important aspect of a claim, unless you are claiming solely for the sake of trying to make yourself obvtown.

Vote: don_johnson

Total 180. Almost right after he said:

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day

just because the claimed OSV is a VI

= scum

Hammering a claimed OSV less than a week since the start of the day

just because the claimed OSV is a VI

, and the claimed OSV flips OSV = if your not scum, I need to relearn how to scumhunt.

He says:

Celeblokis refusal should make him jump up in scumminess, but for some reason it just gives of a town vibe. And honestly,

hammering a VI is hardly a massive scumtell.

So before it was "If you're not scum; I need to relearn how to scumhunt." but now it's "Oh, it isn't a massive scumtell." Oh, and look who you're voting for:

Vote: don_johnson

Only the number one wagon at the moment. And he mainly sheeps his reasons to boot. But wait:

So, I'm being suspected for not liking yesterdays hammer, then, finding the non-defense townish, moving onto my next scum read? Right.

bob has said 'Go look at Zodiark', then since then has harassed everyone for their opinion on me and deselby, without even posting a case, apart from the aforementioned "Look at him" and , against deselby, saying "I don't like how deselby is reacting to my CooLskins vote" and "You've outed yourself as scum lolololol". Yet, despite these "cases", you decided to pointlessly wagon Hrezs when the wagon against him hit full steam. Seriously, your last post is the closest you have come to providing any reason for voting, and its not even a reason.

UNVOTE
Vote: bobsnox

We're now voting for the next major wagon. So after saying in no uncertain terms that celi was scum, Zodiark unvotes him and vote for the biggest wagon. Then

in his very next post

he unvotes

again

and votes for the new biggest wagon. To paraphrase: "If Zodiark isn't scum, then I need to relearn how to scumhunt."

ARG!!! This theme makes my eyes bleed!

Oh, and he also instantly jumped onto bobsnox after his scumbud came in and made a crap case against bobs. That's interesting because it was the first time Zodiark voted for somebody who wasn't the lead wagon at the time, but that was only because Zodiark himself was the lead wagon.

[Humble Poirot]

imaginality replaces Haschel Cedricson.

And now we are full again!

Votecount coming soon.

-HP

[Humble Poirot]

Those in danger of being exposed #15:

Zodiark13 (4)

- Parama, CooLskins, bobsnox, deselby,

Parama (2)

- havingfitz, don_johnson,

bobsnox (2)

- Zodiark13, xvart,

Not Voting (1)

- imaginality,

With 9 Alive it takes 5 to lynch.

[don_johnson]

bob: not trying to "misrep" you. i just disagree with whats going on in general right now. i clearly explained the scum motivation for your actions. if parama is your scumbuddy then your actions make perfect sense. the fact that parama hasn't questioned you AT ALL reads like he may be scum trying to coast off your good graces, or you guys could be scumbuddies outed early and using a "hey, if things get tight i'll just claim towntracker" type gambit. i did a similar gambit as scumwatcher and bussed my entire scumteam to a victory. so yeah.

parama: i'm not scum, so if there is a scum neighbor(which you keep implying) then it is xvart. seeing that i don't think xvart is scum, i have to say "i don't think there is a scum neighbor." it has nothing to do with what you think of xvart. the fact that xvart doesn't have the same mistake in his pm that i have in mine is a little odd and i hope for it to be explained in endgame, but imo, it is better to scumhunt in games as opposed to outside of them.

skins: thanks for the repost, the case isn't terrible and i'm willing to hammer him. the fact is, if i am wrong about parama/bob, then zod could very well be scum, my gut just says hes town whose not good at writing. but whatever. i think we're better off letting imaginality in here before we end the day. i still don't like des putting zod to L-1. parama and bob are in no real danger of being lynched today, so his excuse reads like, well, an excuse. of all the votes on zod, thats the one that looks lilke a bus to me. but whatever.

bob: please expand on your answer. what is it about parama that has you leaning town besides your night result?

[bobsnox]

Phone post. Things weren't tight at any point when I hinted at my role. I did it early both days. I did it to steer discussion, not to save myself or avoid suspicion.

[imaginality]

Hi guys. I'll be rereading and posting later today. I'll try to make it quick as I see Zodiark13's at L-1.

[don_johnson]

bob: parama had just drawn his second vote of the day and was tied with blok for lead wagon when you came to his defense. it has nothing to do with saving yourself, it has to do with your inability to see the possible scum motivation for your actions. if you are town then thats fine, but you should still be able to see my point. parama never questions your defense of him. you don't hint at "tracker". i don't see that anywhere. you do subtly hint at having more info than the average bear, but tracker would not be any players first thought in that situation. however, your point about parama probably nking you if you were power is probably a good one, but it still doesn't clear the theory that you and he may be scum together. seriously, most of his early posts were quote walls with things like "wheeeee" written in between. no way do those profile as town. but whatever. zodiark seems to be getting the noose and doing very little to stop his own hanging, so lets get some imaginality and then proceed.

parama: ftr, xvart came after me for "barely using the qt" night one. he was mostly absent last night. so go figure. bright spot is that i brought up my suspicions of yours and bobs connections. if xvart was scum, he probably would have relayed that info to his team and had one of you nk'd. the fact that you are both alive scores him more town points. zodiark better flip scum.

[deselby]

Don, kind of see where you are coming from re my vote post, not one of my clearest efforts (late night post). The simple message I meant to convey was:

we should lynch the very scummy zodiark (or even hf) before parama or bobs.

Zod's contribution: contradiction+ wagon hopping, attacking his attackers, nothin else.


anyway, disagree with this:

not sure what to make of des placing someone at L-1 while trying to "wait" for replacements to post. parama claimed vt which means his lynch isn't an uber loss to town,

if we lynch town now it will be a pretty big loss, no?

@parama, did you pick bob specifically as a tracker D2? Or just a PR? Or another PR?


Imaginality, no need to rush your post, be thorough. I very much doubt anyone will hammer before you post (within reason of course).

[imaginality]

Imaginality, no need to rush your post, be thorough.

Thanks. I'm up to page 11 already.

[Zodiark13]

Oh well.

Vote:Zodiark13

[deselby]

On second thoughts imag, maybe get a move on just in case someone does hammer....

[imaginality]

Even my mere presence in the game is enough to force scum* to self-hammer. They know it's futile now I'm here to pin them down.


* (and he'd better be...)

[havingfitz]

We weren't even talking about a bobs lynch until fitz came in and threw all sorts of crap out in a desperate attempt to save his scumbud (also, let me remind you that fitz is part of the same slot as kondi of "random unexplained L-1 vote on a townie" fame.)

We've caught two of the three scum (Zodiark and Fitz), and I'm betting that the third scum was somebody on the hrez lynch wagon. So I'm going resume my re-read of that wagon now.

Perhaps you didn't notice I changed my mind on bobsnox?

I've changed my mind about bobsnox and am leaning town on him.

??????????

I explained why...do you disagree with my change of opinion towards you?

Interesting that zodiark doesn't stand out, but people who were on wagons that both seemed to me pretty scummy at the time are your targets. Are you honestly saying that you did not think beck and hrezs acted scummy?

Scum have to mislynch and they can not hide behind their votes forever. Regardless of whether Beck or Hrez were scummy or not, they were both town and have been eliminated. I did think Beck was scummy but his claim should have bought him another day. I did not recall anything suspect from Hrez after I finished my first pass over the game. Are you saying there are no scum on two mislynch wagons? If your answer is 'no' then why do you have issue with my reasoning?

I can see why there is suspicion around of the bobs-parama mutual fan club. However, I think the bobs claim would have been risky as scum, and I can buy some of the confusion arising from bobs clumsiness. I can see parama as scum, but Zodiark and the kondi-ah-hf slot are definitely preferable lynches IMO.

So essentially you agree with most of what I have said or done in my short time in this game. You agree with my take on the bobsnox claim and you can see my current votee [parama] as scum. So why am I a suspect for you?

Oh well.

Vote:Zodiark13

And that's a hammer.

Assuming you are scum throwing in the towel and not just a really bad townie, I need to re-evaluate my read on parama. I can't see more than one buddy bussing you (if any) but who that potentially could be idk. If you are in fact scum both your bud's could be off your wagon (which fmpov would be xvart, dj or imag). Of those not on your wagon I think xvart is a prime suspect tomorrow. One of only three people who were on both the D1 and D2 mislynches

and

off what is looking like a D3 scum lynch.

[deselby]

Interesting that zodiark doesn't stand out, but people who were on wagons that both seemed to me pretty scummy at the time are your targets. Are you honestly saying that you did not think beck and hrezs acted scummy?

Scum have to mislynch and they can not hide behind their votes forever. Regardless of whether Beck or Hrez were scummy or not, they were both town and have been eliminated. I did think Beck was scummy but his claim should have bought him another day. I did not recall anything suspect from Hrez after I finished my first pass over the game.

Are you saying there are no scum on two mislynch wagons?

If your answer is 'no' then why do you have issue with my reasoning?

I think you know I didn't say that, in fact assuming 3 scum this is not even possible. I stated my issue in the post you quoted.

I can see why there is suspicion around of the bobs-parama mutual fan club. However, I think the bobs claim would have been risky as scum, and I can buy some of the confusion arising from bobs clumsiness. I can see parama as scum, but Zodiark and the kondi-ah-hf slot are definitely preferable lynches IMO.

So essentially you agree with most of what I have said or done in my short time in this game.

You agree with my take on the bobsnox claim and you can see my current votee [parama] as scum. So why am I a suspect for you?

Not quite. Bobs pretty much. parama no: "I can see parama as scum" does not equal "vote for parama cos he is the most likely scum". And zodiark no.

You are also a suspect for me because of kondi's play (not your fault obviously).

[Humble Poirot]

Those in danger of being exposed #16:

Zodiark13 (5)

- Parama, CooLskins, bobsnox, deselby, Zodiark13

Parama (2)

- havingfitz, don_johnson,

bobsnox (1)

- xvart,

Not Voting (1)

- imaginality,

With 9 Alive it took 5 to lynch.

Things just went too fast, too soon. I couldn't follow the plot anymore.
Somehow, the hackers had united against a common suspect and pushed him in such
a way that he ended up cracking and exposing himself.

Not bad news, but there's still a long way to go to be able to sleep at night
without waking up covered in sweat and paranoia, after every little sound.

Zodiark13, mafia goon, was exposed day 3

Code: Select all

"In reality, hope is the worst of all evils, because it prolongs man's torments."

Night 3 has begun. It will end on Saturday 23 at 13:00 (GMT-3). Send your actions before then. It may take a while longer for the thread to be opened but actions sent after the deadline will not be considered.

[Humble Poirot]

They know.

They're all seeing and all powerful.

You don't know who's being spied on and who is a spy himself.

But with less numbers, it should become easier to single people out but, harder, to avoid entrapment.

Good luck, fellas, looks like you need it.

bobsnox, Town Tracker, was killed night 3.

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch

V/LAs:

havingfitz: 24-26/7